Bullet resistant protection actually giving bullet resistant protection

[cornholio308 33]

They have recently re-added the plate carrier vest into the game "From what I heard hackers could spawn this item" this vest was literally one of the most anticipated items in the game for me to be added. But sadly as I expected this item to not function at all like most features added to the game I was correct, let me digress 

 

A kevlar vest uses fibres to trap the bullet and stop penetration. A level 2 bullet resistant vest can stop 9mm and 357 magnum at point blank with a level 3A "Also kevlar" being able to stop a 9mm and 44 magnum point blank. Now let's actually compare hard plate vests shall we? A level 3 hard plate vest can stop in its tracks a 7.62x51mm nato ball round. A level 4 hard plate vest can stop a 30-06 ARMOUR PIERCING ROUND!!! 

 

But the plate carrier that's just been added is defeated like any other clothing item in the game, One .380 pistol round goes right through the vest damaging both the vest and your blood level? Remember a bullet has to pass through the bullet resistant material to make contact with flesh. I can understand a kevlar vest giving shock damage when hit but a plate disperses the impact on the plate itself so a plate vest should take all pistol rounds in game with ease shot after shot after shot after shot after shot, I would even dare say the damage to the plate would be so minuscule from pistol rounds you could take a couple of magazines to the same region on the plate and not get through, with the 7.62x51mm nato being stopped for a far lesser amount. 

 

how it should be 

 

Kevlar vest if added "Pistol rounds should not go through, remember its fibre so it can take multiple shots without breaking apart like plate armour so no blood damage should be dealt and if there is it should be a tiny amount as bruising would take place and possible internal bleeding though what is more likely is a superficial wound like being hit by a really powerful paint ball causing broken skin bleeding and a hefty welt. 5.56 and above should go clean through. 

 

Plate vest like I said above should take pistol rounds all day with ease with only the 7.62x51mm nato round doing hefty damage to the plate and able to get through after a few shots. The first shot to the plate should give no blood damage or shock damage and the second should give some shock damage and no blood damage, the third should go through. 

 

Now from personal experience and observation what I have said will offend the knights of dayz and they will be thirsty for blood so let me set a challenge for you to overcome, you WILL say this is over powered and make's the wearer a tank undefeatable by mere mortals, to the vests defence I ask you to take second and think what a real life bullet resistant vest does. Dayz is trying to be realistic? The firearms are trying to mimic the real thing food tries to mimic the real thing the vehicles are trying to mimic the real thing so let's not forget that in real life if a person is shot with a class 4 vest with a 30-06 armour piercing round he will be unscathed. Aim for unprotected area's of the body, the head the neck the arms the legs. 

So what do you think? 

Edited February 26, 2015 by Cornholio308

[Warhoax 63]

I'll just leave this here, as I think you are talking about this.
I suppose those vests have something like this inside them, they can stop a lot and many of that a lot.

[cornholio308 33]

I'll just leave this here, as I think you are talking about this.

I suppose those vests have something like this inside them, they can stop a lot and many of that a lot.

It appears I am actually underestimating the strength of bullet resistant vests. Thanks for helping me prove my point, hopefully this opens the eyes of the game developers though I will say one thing.. if this gets to the eyes of any devs that can make a change please do us the people who bought your game for early access and made you tens of millions a huge obligation by doing actual research on the items you put in the game, I mean its actually fairly pathetic that you put so much time into modelling a plate vest and putting it into the game without giving the vest proper resistance to bullets, it's like wearing glasses without the actual need to have them. is this game a fashion show? will I wear a hard plate vest as a fashion statement? 

Edited February 26, 2015 by Cornholio308

[DURRHUNTER 597]

Not into body armor and kevlar and bullet stopping rounds, all i need is a axe then for a weapon. Plus you would have those juggernauts that are impossible to kill.

[cornholio308 33]

Not into body armor and kevlar and bullet stopping rounds, all i need is a axe then for a weapon. Plus you would have those juggernauts that are impossible to kill.

What you are not into and what IS in the game are two different things, stay on topic. Take your axe and try use it against a competitive player with a firearm and you will be killed every time. If you were reading between the lines a bullet resistant vest does not make the wearer impossible to kill, his head arms and legs are exposed.

[foolee 43]

Only 6 post on the forum and all of them criticizing a game is in early access. This is not a finished product, everything will be tweaked over time.

[cornholio308 33]

Only 6 post on the forum and all of them criticizing a game is in early access. This is not a finished product, everything will be tweaked over time.

 

It's entirely irrelevant what my posts were about though if we were to get into technicalities the first two posts were #1 being helping others #2 asking someone where he was shot and the others contained in this thread, now correct me if I am wrong but isn't this section of the forums about suggestions?

 

Now I will put you into the category of a DayZ knight because you refuse to use logic and instead contest any forms of factual information so let me just say this directly to you and any other of your kind prowling the threads, STAY ON TOPIC!!! no one give's a crap what load out you prefer or off topic defence of the game in its current state. 

 

To directly contest what you are trying to say YES, yes this game is in early access AND THIS IS THE TIME WHERE MAJOR CHANGES CAN OCCUR. Not in beta where the goal is to optimize and bug fix. Please educate yourself on what you think you know otherwise you sound clueless of even your own opinions. The point is, if this vest is not finished and I truly hope it is not. Why are they implementing this vest without its correct bullet resistance? Why put in an item without it having all the features it needs to be tested and tweaked and changed? If the plan is to eventually add a more in depth version of bullet resistance than is currently available then that is wonderful however I will not risk that not happening. This needs to be brought to the attention of the development team because honestly a lot of people are losing hope in them including me. 

Edited February 26, 2015 by Cornholio308

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

The game is doomed because of a vest? OK there....

[cornholio308 33]

The game is doomed because of a vest? OK there....

And what rock have you crawled out from under? Nowhere did I say the game is doomed because of a vest and you are blind if you do not know what I meant about people losing hope for this game, I wont even bother delve into the matter. STAY ON TOPIC!!!!!

Edited February 26, 2015 by Cornholio308

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

And what rock have you crawled out from under? Nowhere did I say the game is doomed because of a vest and you are blind if you do not know what I meant about people losing hope for this game, I wont even bother delve into the matter. STAY ON TOPIC!!!!!

Your topic is about a bullet resistant vest and at the same time you talk about losing faith. Read your own topic.

[foolee 43]

I'm all for posting factual Infomation. But as I stated the game is early access. I'm pretty sure the devs have taken this into account. It's like the V3S, it's been changed a few times since its been introduced. Catch my drift ANGRY MAN WHOM POST IN CAPITALS... My post are on topic FYI... Thanks for the education...

Edited February 26, 2015 by Foolee

[cornholio308 33]

I'm all for posting factual Infomation. But as I stated the game is early access. I'm pretty sure the devs have taken this into account. It's like the V3S, it's been changed a few times since its been introduced. Catch my drift ANGRY MAN WHOM POST IN CAPITALS... My post are on topic FYI... Thanks for the education...

 

You are pretty sure? And your only evidence is a V3S that was specifically said before the vehicle was ever introduced to the game what it would be, do I need to state what was said before it was released or can you remember or research that yourself? The vehicle itself is not finished and I know this because of all the information directly stated by the dev team what it will feature before it entered the game. No where is it stated this plate armoured vest would be changed to better reflect its real life counterpart. Thus it needs to be digested by the dev team and hopefully it will open their eye's to what needs to change with it or maybe even they themselves can tell us if the vest shall remain the way it is "a fashion statement" or be changed to what I and anyone with basic knowledge of ballistic protection feels it should be. 

 

PS The reason for capitals and if you didn't notice bright vibrant colours is simply because most people forget to stay on topic by the time their eyes reach the bottom of the page to post a reply. IT'S A PRECAUTION THAT DOESN'T APPEAR TO BE WORKING. 

Edited February 26, 2015 by Cornholio308

[cornholio308 33]

Your topic is about a bullet resistant vest and at the same time you talk about losing faith. Read your own topic.

 

What? 

[-Gews- 7443]

There's never been any body armor simulation in Bohemia's consumer games. ARMA 2 and ARMA 3 just give players extra ability to soak up damage. 95% sure the .45 ACP does more damage to people wearing those DayZ vests than 5.56.

[rybec 339]

Only 6 post on the forum and all of them criticizing a game is in early access. This is not a finished product, everything will be tweaked over time.

Hang on a sec, where are we?

 

Hey, the suggestions subforum.

[gibonez 3633]

There's never been any body armor simulation in Bohemia's consumer games. ARMA 2 and ARMA 3 just give players extra ability to soak up damage. 95% sure the .45 ACP does more damage to people wearing those DayZ vests than 5.56.

 

True the closest we have seen from Bohemia is from VBS.

[cornholio308 33]

True the closest we have seen from Bohemia is from VBS.

Yeah I've seen this a long time ago and completely forgot about it, thanks for sharing this. I tested the vest today first hand, a 9mm round from a cr75 pistol went right through the plate vest like it was made of paper ruining it and also damaging my raincoat to "badly damaged condition". It also made me bleed from the wound. I hope the devs can comment about this and tell us if this is only temporary until they make the vest more like the real thing. Surely brian hicks "from what I have heard is all about realism" is aware of how pathetically this vest is performing? 

Edited February 28, 2015 by Cornholio308

[Xoon (DayZ) 1]

OP has a point, the west should help against pistols/SMGs. But does the plate carrier contain a plate :P ? 

 

BTW, If they add military pants/armored pants, the weak spots would be: Neck,arms and legs (Not counting shoulders, knees and shoes) and side of the body armour, depending on the plates.

 

And even if i meet one with this gear, i could still spray a magazine in his chest and watch him collapse >:D. Even if no bullets penetrated.

[cornholio308 33]

OP has a point, the west should help against pistols/SMGs. But does the plate carrier contain a plate :P ? 

 

BTW, If they add military pants/armored pants, the weak spots would be: Neck,arms and legs (Not counting shoulders, knees and shoes) and side of the body armour, depending on the plates.

 

And even if i meet one with this gear, i could still spray a magazine in his chest and watch him collapse > :D. Even if no bullets penetrated.

Yeah the vest weighs a considerable amount so it's weight amount and the description state the vest does contain plates. On closer inspection I believe it also has side plates protecting some of your sides by looking at the vest in game. But keep in mind small arms fire is considered small arms up until you reach rounds like 338 lapua magnum, 50BMG, 12.7x108mm and 14.5x114mm anti material rounds thus 308/7.62x51mm nato, 30-06 and rounds of the same size are considered small arms and would be stopped by plate armour not just pistol calibres that be like throwing a sticky tennis ball at a wall, the result is it just sticks to it doing absolutely nothing. 

 

Also with plate armour you would have to have a lot of inertia to make someone fall over, generally bullets are designed to have enormous pressure at a small point that either penetrates or expands on impact, with a plate the round disperses all of its energy on the plate itself and as you can guess the plate has no flex in it so the only pressure applied to you would be from the inertia of the plate pressing against you. That pressure would be tiny as the weight of a bullet is usually around 55-180 grains "those figures could be a little off" 

 

But yes if they had a kevlar vest a considerable amount of shockwaves and inertia is going to take place around the area of impact. 

Edited February 28, 2015 by Cornholio308

[Xoon (DayZ) 1]

Yeah the vest weighs a considerable amount so it's weight amount and the description state the vest does contain plates. On closer inspection I believe it also has side plates protecting some of your sides by looking at the vest in game. But keep in mind small arms fire is considered small arms up until you reach rounds like 338 lapua magnum, 50BMG, 12.7x108mm and 14.5x114mm anti material rounds thus 308/7.62x51mm nato, 30-06 and rounds of the same size are considered small arms and would be stopped by plate armour not just pistol calibres that be like throwing a sticky tennis ball at a wall, the result is it just sticks to it doing absolutely nothing. 

 

Also with plate armour you would have to have a lot of inertia to make someone fall over, generally bullets are designed to have enormous pressure at a small point that either penetrates or expands on impact, with a plate the round disperses all of its energy on the plate itself and as you can guess the plate has no flex in it so the only pressure applied to you would be from the inertia of the plate pressing against you. That pressure would be tiny as the weight of a bullet is usually around 55-180 grains "those figures could be a little off" 

 

But yes if they had a kevlar vest a considerable amount of shockwaves and inertia is going to take place around the area of impact. 

Yeah, i meant pistol caliber (Not including anti armor pistols, Five-seven and stuff). I have just read so much about tanks that small arms seems kinda, small (You know 57mm autocannon or a 120mm gun, kinda bigger than a 7.62 round :P)

 

But still, if i fired my MP5 point blank into your chest, would you collapse?

 

And maybe they can add AP rounds? And make them like 1-10 of each 100 round?

 

Thanks for the correction BTW!

Edited February 28, 2015 by Xoon

[cornholio308 33]

Yeah, i meant pistol caliber (Not including anti armor pistols, Five-seven and stuff). I have just read so much about tanks that small arms seems kinda, small (You know 57mm autocannon or a 120mm gun, kinda bigger than a 7.62 round :P)

 

But still, if i fired my MP5 point blank into your chest, would you collapse?

 

And maybe they can add AP rounds? And make them like 1-10 of each 100 round?

 

Thanks for the correction BTW!

Class 4 plate armour stops 30-06 armour piercing rounds. What a armour piercing round is, is practically a bullet with a steel penetrator "very hard pointy rod" contained within the bullet itself that penetrates better than a round made just of copper and lead. The five seven pistol you speak of can use armour piercing rounds "The 5.7×28mm ammunition used in the gun can contain penetrators" however just because its an armour piercing round it does not mean it can go through all types of armour as a 30-06 armour piercing round is defeated by class 4 plates, by armour piercing 5.7×28mm rounds it probably means against kevlar vests that are designed to stop 357 magnum and 44 magnum, not plate armour. 

 

To answer your question about the mp5 being capable of dropping you on your back, extremely unlikely. When you are shot and fall back its because of the damage the bullets are doing to your body causing you to collapse from death or fall back from trauma/shock but the round itself is not forcing you to fall back. You need a lot of lead to whack you at once to give enough inertia to make you fall back on your ass though if you were shot with a 357 magnum with a kevlar vest you would definitely feel it and possibly fall over from the punch the round gave you. Remember kevlar is somewhat soft and does bend in towards you when a bullet is being caught inside the kevlar fibres.

 

About the AP ammunition, I think they definitely should add something like this. Remember a class 3 armour plate vest can stop 7.62x51mm nato but it will not stop a 7.62x51mm nato penetrator. So even with the mosin and right ammunition you can get through the protection offered by the plate. Personally I would absolutely love if tracer ammunition will make a reappearance "not many people know this but the sporter when loaded with one single round and fired had tracers".

Edited February 28, 2015 by Cornholio308

[sachad 1016]

Ugh... topics like these make me wish they'd just strip every bullet-resistant vest from the game. Now we're already asking for armor piercing rounds... what's next? Dragon's breath? Flechettes? This is talk for Arma, not DayZ. 

[cornholio308 33]

Ugh... topics like these make me wish they'd just strip every bullet-resistant vest from the game. Now we're already asking for armor piercing rounds... what's next? Dragon's breath? Flechettes? This is talk for Arma, not DayZ. 

Tracer ammunition is widely available by military and civilian people, armour piercing rounds are available to the military. You are the only one who who cannot control his thoughts and lets it lead to one thing to another. Let me explain this. Tracer ammunition was already in dayz and has been in the Real Virtuality engine for quite some time, it worked perfectly just like when shotguns fired slugs. Both features weren't ready to make an appearance so it was taken out until they can separate standard ammunition from other types by description and visuals. To create an armour piercing round in dayz it's quite simple, standard ammunition should be coded to not penetrate the vest with armour piercing rounds simply being coded to ignore the armour value, example "a 7.62x51mm nato armour piercing round should be able to go through if it is a class 3 bullet resistant plate" It's as simple as making the AP round ignore the vests threshold value.

 

And this is talk for dayz, elaborate on your statements please. And remember this, you need to learn to walk before you can run. The plate carrier should work first before anything else is considered. 

 

Bullet resistance vests would be in high demand in a post apocalyptic scenario. Fact!

Edited March 1, 2015 by Cornholio308

[gibonez 3633]

Ugh... topics like these make me wish they'd just strip every bullet-resistant vest from the game. Now we're already asking for armor piercing rounds... what's next? Dragon's breath? Flechettes? This is talk for Arma, not DayZ. 

 

I have to agree.

 

Arma 3 also did the same by adding armor variables to the damage model and boy does Arma 3 have an atrocious damage model as a result.

 

Nothing is fun about shooting someone in Arma 3 10 times only to have them shrug 10 times and sprint away like nothing happened.

 

Arma 2 damage model was such a huge improvement over the arma 3 method.

[-Gews- 7443]

I have to agree.

 

Arma 3 also did the same by adding armor variables to the damage model and boy does Arma 3 have an atrocious damage model as a result.

 

Nothing is fun about shooting someone in Arma 3 10 times only to have them shrug 10 times and sprint away like nothing happened.

 

Arma 2 damage model was such a huge improvement over the arma 3 method.

Both damage models are imperfect, but ArmA 2 is not realistic at all, in terms of realism it's much worse than ArmA 3. Soldiers with present-day body armor die in one shot out to 800/900 meters. Pfft. And in ArmA 3 if you don't want players to tank shots then as the mission maker you can deny them armor and they will die just as easily as in Arma 2. ArmA 3 is based in 2035, not 1980, if they want to even pretend to be realistic they need to have body armor, and not just for cosmetics, it's not reasonable to expect them to ignore it. Their current damage model is not great, no penetration simulation, just effectively a big health buff, no weak points. Only penetration/no penetration on walls, armored vehicles... not personal body armor.