In my opinion this game should focus on melee combat

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Lol no caboose...it's not making "soul calibur" in DayZ.

 

Games have been borrowing good game mechanics from other games since video games were a thing.

 

A game utilizing mechanics or creating mechanics based off inspiration from another game's feature does not make it inherently that game. If no game ever payed homage or utilized similar mechanics from other games, a lot of our favorite titles wouldn't exist or would suck today.

 

Come on....soul calubur? Jesus caboose lol. Normally your arguments sound a lot less...well...silly.

ya... wielding a baseball bat like a sword all the while ducking, parrying, dodging, rolling while doing jump kicks is going to fit in? The OP's idea is silly. Also thisdoesn't belong in general but in the suggestions forum.

[Avant-Garde 229]

ya... wielding a baseball bat like a sword all the while ducking, parrying, dodging, rolling while doing jump kicks is going to fit in? The OP's idea is silly. Also thisdoesn't belong in general but in the suggestions forum.

Is that what I'm saying? Ya, lets make this shit into Chivalry! YAY FUCK ALL THE ARGUMENTS I USED, ALL I WANT IS DAYZ: CHIVALRY WARFARE! Great Caboose you so smart man :) you really understood the idea, congratulations for such inteligence! I want dayz to be fucking SOUL CALIBUR! Jesus read the fucking thread man...

 

Such a obvious troll but hey, you made me mad man! You are a good troll at least.

 

I'm not only sugesting that they improve melee, I'm trying to discuss how they can improve melee and I wanted a feedback of this comunity on how I see they could improve it. I'm not suggesting anything, I'm trying to discuss the subject.

Edited January 26, 2015 by Avant-Garde

[Old_Crow_Whiskey 119]

Better animations and more infected to use it on.

Combo moves i wouldnt mind. Not 18+killer instinct moves but more like a frontswing backswing idea.

 

yea bro. it can be simple and fun and im sure it will be. :thumbsup:

[sachad 1016]

ya... wielding a baseball bat like a sword all the while ducking, parrying, dodging, rolling while doing jump kicks is going to fit in? The OP's idea is silly. Also thisdoesn't belong in general but in the suggestions forum.

 

Nobody's asking for Jackie Chan moves. We're asking for a bit more options in melee than 'swing meekly at enemy'.

 

That being said, I wonder if adding a sort of front kick would be a good addition. It's a simple straightforward move that almost anyone can pull off, and it helps push back zombies and other players without making it an elite ninja move.

[Avant-Garde 229]

Nobody's asking for Jackie Chan moves. We're asking for a bit more options in melee than 'swing meekly at enemy'.

 

That being said, I wonder if adding a sort of front kick would be a good addition. It's a simple straightforward move that almost anyone can pull off, and it helps push back zombies and other players without making it an elite ninja move.

Its a great thing to create distance between you and your opponent AND take the initiative back when you lost it, could be some sort of bashing instead of kicking too.

 

Makes me thing, for a complex melee we need flinch! Together with parry is one of the things that makes spaming useless and create strategy

[DeatHTaX 1217]

ya... wielding a baseball bat like a sword all the while ducking, parrying, dodging, rolling while doing jump kicks is going to fit in? The OP's idea is silly. Also thisdoesn't belong in general but in the suggestions forum.

 

No one likes a back seat moderator

 

 

And I think you're blowing out of proportion the kinds of things people are mentioning. I don't think realistically we expect to be able to parkour around with a baseball bat while doing bruce lee moves.

 

Blocking and a difficult-to-master parry system would be a welcome development to the melee system as opposed to the "omg click click click click + circle strafe"

 

I mean if it means turning it into "soul caliburrrrr" fine whatever. Because the melee system now BLOWS. Like hardcore. I can't imagine them keeping it. People being athletic and dodging in a melee fight is not unheard of...if you got into a fight with someone would you just stand there and try to beat the crap out of each other while running in a circle?

 

Thought not.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

No one likes a back seat moderator

 

 

And I think you're blowing out of proportion the kinds of things people are mentioning. I don't think realistically we expect to be able to parkour around with a baseball bat while doing bruce lee moves.

 

Blocking and a difficult-to-master parry system would be a welcome development to the melee system as opposed to the "omg click click click click + circle strafe"

 

I mean if it means turning it into "soul caliburrrrr" fine whatever. Because the melee system now BLOWS. Like hardcore. I can't imagine them keeping it. People being athletic and dodging in a melee fight is not unheard of...if you got into a fight with someone would you just stand there and try to beat the crap out of each other while running in a circle?

 

Thought not.

besides Hollywood, who out there fights like what is suggested? Better AI and better infected animations, which I had mentioned earlier but the OP blew a fuse because I think his suggestion is silly and over the top. People want the game to be authentic and asking for Hollywoodism maneuvers in not it.

[Toops 27]

If we just make weapons more rare, but leave them as effective once assembled, the problem will get worse. It will just widen the gap between haves and have-nots. The uber-dedicated gamers will inevitably get armed, and when they do, they will become godlike because no one else has the time to farm for crazy hours. The griefing will be brutal, relentless, and unstoppable. The fights will become tragically one-sided, and ganking crews will just run the coastline and make everyone hate this game.

 

In reality, hitting a target with a gun is EXTREMELY difficult, and takes years of training to be effective under pressure. Most survivors are just civilians, they would be awful with firearms, and would get really nervous when looking at a human or a monster through the sights.

 

IMHO what we need is at least these things:

-Way less accuracy: If you've ever shot a gun, you know that feeling of aiming right at a target, and it missing, and you're like, WHAT? I was aiming RIGHT AT IT!

-More general gun sway when aiming down sights. Novices don't know how to hold or balance a weapon, and their hands typically get uncontrollably shaky once they mentally commit to firing the weapon.

-firing from the hip: It's clownshoes, and should miss like 90% of the time, like it does in real life.

-an "under fire" or "adrenaline" system: Reduced accuracy when you're in a high-pressure, adrenaline inducing situation. Watch real video of a person killing a deer sometime. After they shoot, they hyperventilate like crazy because of all the adrenaline that comes with killing an animal, and the extremely violent reaction shooting a gun has on your body. The only reason they hit the animal is from years of practice and experience.

-Guns jamming constantly (the frequency with which you have to clean your weapon so it doesn't jam takes OCD-like dedication). make weapon cleaning kits extremely rare, so everyone's guns are always jamming.

 

Overall, there's just way too much run and gun, FPS CoD cowboy shit. They need to make hitting something with a bullet really hard, that's the only solution I can see.

Edited January 26, 2015 by BoopyFriend

[Avant-Garde 229]

If we just make weapons more rare, but leave them as effective once assembled, the problem will get worse. It will just widen the gap between haves and have-nots. The uber-dedicated gamers will inevitably get armed, and when they do, they will become godlike because no one else had the time to farm for crazy hours. The griefing will be brutal, relentless, and unstoppable. The fights will become tragically one-sided, and ganking crews will just run the coastline and make everyone hate this game.

 

In reality, hitting a target with a gun is EXTREMELY difficult, and takes years of training to be effective under pressure. Most survivors are just civilians, they would be awful with firearms, and would get really nervous when looking at a human or a monster through the sights.

 

IMHO what we need is at least these things:

-way less accuracy

-more general gun sway when aiming down sights

-firing from the hip misses like 90% of the time

-an "under fire" or "adrenaline" system that reduces your accuracy when you're in a high-pressure, adrenaline inducing situation

-guns jamming constantly (the frequency with which you have to clean your weapon so it doesn't jam takes OCD-like dedication). make weapon cleaning kits extremely rare.

Great idea man, way better then making weapons rare indeed. As Whyhero said they are also used as melee so really, no point in making them rare. I like the "under fire" idea its like Red Orchestra right, where supressing fire actually means something! Its a great game too imo, exelent gameplay.

 

What you think about the melee complexity? I mean, firearms are obviously gonna get nerfed either by rare ammo or ideas like yours, so melee is going to play a great role ingame. Would  you also like to have a bit more complexity in melee?

[Toops 27]

What you think about the melee complexity? I mean, firearms are obviously gonna get nerfed either by rare ammo or ideas like yours, so melee is going to play a great role ingame. Would  you also like to have a bit more complexity in melee?

 

I think the melee system should have enough complexity to allow players to get good at it, but it shouldn't become a meta-game. The interface needs to be simple, but not lobotomy simple like it is now. Two attack types: stab and swing. Two defend types: dodge, and parry. The complexity would be knowing how each item's timing works, which items trump which, where the block and hitboxes are, and when to use a dodge vs. a parry..

 

Melee fights should be slow and kind of awkward. That's how they are in real life. It should be hard to dodge attacks, but totally doable. Tired, hungry, dehydrated civilian survivors aren't veteran UFC fighters. They're not that strong, they're not that coordinated, and it's hard to block a baseball bat swinging at your torso.

 

Edit: I would also like to see your vision get blurred as you get hit more.

Edited January 26, 2015 by BoopyFriend

[Avant-Garde 229]

I think the melee system should have enough complexity to allow players to get good at it, but it shouldn't become a meta-game. The interface needs to be simple, but not lobotomy simple like it is now. Two attack types: stab and swing. Two defend types: dodge, and parry. The complexity would be knowing how each item's timing works, which items trump which, where the block and hitboxes are, and when to use a dodge vs. a parry..

 

Melee fights should be slow and kind of awkward. That's how they are in real life. It should be hard to dodge attacks, but totally doable. Tired, hungry, dehydrated civilian survivors aren't veteran UFC fighters. They're not that strong, they're not that coordinated, and it's hard to block a baseball bat swinging at your torso.

 

Edit: I would also like to see your vision get blurred as you get hit more.

Yeah a simple back/side dodge could be really awesome too and open many possibilities.

 

The parry is a complicated subject, because for example, if they are to make it realistic, your "parrybox" should be the same size of your weapon. Problem is, this method leaves your legs totally vulnerable and that would result in dumb leg hit meta. So if the parrybox is made like this, we would need at least 3 parry animations, low, middle and high parry. Easier solution to all this but less realistic is what Chivalry did, you have a "huge" (from your face to your ankle and its as wide as your shoulders) parrybox in front of you that is activated when you parry, so you still can bypass your opponents parry using those attack manipulations technics (like a side-stab) and avoid inconsistencies and fucked up moments that would be caused by unparriable attacks aimed at your legs.

 

Imo, the huge parrybox its not really bad, at least in Chivaly it plays kinda well. But I would totally prefer that the parry were made by the weapon model, so if you use a knife against a sledgehammer or a axeman, you would have to dodge and play smart because it would be a seriously risky trying to parry that thing! Also in DayZ I don't think it would be bad if you for example, parried a sledgehammer with a butter knife and you broke your wrist or got some kind of damage depending on how well (timing and direction wise) you parry it.

 

 

Another solution maybe is the dodge, so if you see that your opponent is going for a leg hit (telegraphed by his torso moviment) you dodge the fuck out.

[Toops 27]

I like the idea of one big parrybox. Throw the concept of Low/Med/High in there and suddenly everyone's playing street fighter.  If you combine single hitbox with weapon trumps, it could work. For example, If you try to parry a hockey stick with a combat knife, no dice, you're getting hit. You would have to spot the hockey stick, and know to use a dodge. If you try to block a baseball bat with a fire hydrant, no problemo. But the fire hydrant attack would be crazy slow, so it's hard to counter against the faster baseball bat.

 

That level of complexity would reward gamers for practice and expertise. If any more precision were required, I feel like it would be too cumbersome and difficult to keep reliable, given the realities of latency and open-world multiplayer gaming.

[Death By Crowbar 1213]

Keep calm, meelee (especially weapon balancing) is nowhere near complete, as this is an alpha and that is all slated for tuning and review. OP has a good observation, but one that's a known issue and balance tuning item that's already on the road map before this early access alpha hits beta status.

[Avant-Garde 229]

I like the idea of one big parrybox. Throw the concept of Low/Med/High in there and suddenly everyone's playing street fighter.  If you combine single hitbox with weapon trumps, it could work. For example, If you try to parry a hockey stick with a combat knife, no dice, you're getting hit. You would have to spot the hockey stick, and know to use a dodge. If you try to block a baseball bat with a fire hydrant, no problemo. But the fire hydrant attack would be crazy slow, so it's hard to counter against the faster baseball bat.

 

That level of complexity would reward gamers for practice and expertise. If any more precision were required, I feel like it would be too cumbersome and difficult to keep reliable, given the realities of latency and open-world multiplayer gaming.

There is a game that is going to be released maybe this year that focus on melee combat, just like Chivalry, and also has tracer based system and what not. In fact, it REALLY looks like Chivalry gameplay. Well, said game will have low, mid and high parry and you do them by looking up, down or straight. Its all done by the same mouse buton, but depending on where you are looking one or another parry animation will play. Its an awesome idea imo

 

Its even kinda intuitive if you think about it, if someone ingame were to hit your legs, look down and parry! It plays just like the big parrybox, but open more oportunities to attack and raises the skill celling of parring. But we might then fall in the "DayZ survivor is not a pro fighter", and dodging I believe is far more intuitive then low, mid and high parry but idk, I like the idea anyways, seems like good gameplay.

 

Simple huge parrybox + dodge would already be very, VERY good to this game Imo.

Edited January 26, 2015 by Avant-Garde

[sachad 1016]

besides Hollywood, who out there fights like what is suggested? Better AI and better infected animations, which I had mentioned earlier but the OP blew a fuse because I think his suggestion is silly and over the top. People want the game to be authentic and asking for Hollywoodism maneuvers in not it.

 

Yet everyone is adept at handling firearms, bushcraft and survival techniques. It's still a video game after all.

[Avant-Garde 229]

besides Hollywood, who out there fights like what is suggested? Better AI and better infected animations, which I had mentioned earlier but the OP blew a fuse because I think his suggestion is silly and over the top. People want the game to be authentic and asking for Hollywoodism maneuvers in not it.

How is multi directional attacks and the halibity to parry/dodge hollywodism maneuvers?

Anyways, to keep it real then and not over the top, we gotta strafe and spam BUT with nice animations, thats realistic/good gameplay right. I believe you don't even know what a fun and good melee is, by your posts one can clearly see that you are clueless. You should try Chivalry.

 

Do you think that melee now is authentic?

Edited January 26, 2015 by Avant-Garde

[Toops 27]

Yet everyone is adept at handling firearms, bushcraft and survival techniques. It's still a video game after all.

 

I think this is one of the most important areas for Bohemia to correct. Survivors should be much, much worse at handling firearms. See my above post where I spell out the detail, but in short, they should make our shots sometimes miss even when we seem to be aimed right at our targets. They should make our hands shake really bad when we're aiming at a human being, or worse, a zombie, because when you're scared AND about to kill a living thing that's similar to you in size, fear and adrenaline goes racing through you, and all but the most highly trained combat professionals know how to maintain composure and remain accurate.

 

This would add a character building and skill elements (i.e. incentive to stay alive and keep playing). The more you use guys, the better your accuracy gets, the less often you miss when aiming correctly. The more human-size animals you kill, the steadier your hand when aiming down sights. The more zombies you kill, the more steady your hand when aiming at zombies. etc. Heck, I'm gonna add this as a new suggestion topic.

Edited January 26, 2015 by BoopyFriend

[star-lord252 83]

What I want is to have some highly underestimated weapons to be good. Example-crowbar,baseball bat, machete.

I also want some improvements to knifes like the combat knife like say instead of having the bad wack animation its more of a stab and causes some severe bleeding leading to larger loss of blood than other weapons. I like the barry idea like when a guy comes out you can block it with your bat you found.

[sachad 1016]

I think this is one of the most important areas for Bohemia to correct....

 

Well, I could have worded it a little better back there. What my original point was, is that blocking and basic strikes are not the same as handling firearms like a professional, or having elite survival skills. Almost everybody knows how to swing a bat, a knife or an axe at least well enough to hit a human target. I don't mind if the animations are a bit clumsy, even. Again, if I want to play Chivalry-style melee combat, I'll play Chivalry, but adding some level of basic proficiency with melee weapons won't make us all ninjas.

[Avant-Garde 229]

What about wielding something as a shield so you can bash through zeds? Over the top too much?

 

I think if it was made possible, you should not be able to shield + melee weapons, you just use the shield so its really easier to parry (maybe shields could have a holdable parry) and to bash through a few zeds!

 

EDIT: GUYS GUYS, I had asked a dev about all this and look what we got

 

I agree. There is some desing ongoing regarding melee and we are considering multiple options. From what I can tell there should be at least variation to attacks and possibly some blocking.

 

 

AW YES strafe and spam will finaly rest in peperoni

Edited January 27, 2015 by Avant-Garde

[cheranuscrusiser 21]

Actually, this is a great idea.

I think if they remove all firearms from the game, hackers will leave DayZ because it will be too boring for 13 year olds with Mommy's credit cards.

Let's do it. Let's go completely melee, Chivalry style.

[Whyherro123 2283]

What about wielding something as a shield so you can bash through zeds? Over the top too much?

 

I think if it was made possible, you should not be able to shield + melee weapons, you just use the shield so its really easier to parry (maybe shields could have a holdable parry) and to bash through a few zeds!

 

EDIT: GUYS GUYS, I had asked a dev about all this and look what we got

 

 

AW YES strafe and spam will finaly rest in peperoni

Why shouldn't you be able to use a shield in conjunction with a melee weapon? That is what they were designed for, after all. 

[Quimoth 7]

I think that the most important thing to be fixed is the fact that i always feel like a drunk man when using melee in first person. It is way harder to circle zombies in first-person then it is to do so in third. Perhaps melee should have a different cross-hair or at least it should be made a bit more visible where you land your strike, especially the delay is something which took me quite some time to master.

 

I think that a new melee system is something we MUST have before zombies get more dangerous, because right now i cannot fight zombies 5 to 1 with melee in first person unless i have a firefighter-axe and the guts to tank some hits in the hope that i break nothing.

 

I think the devs have some kind of progression map like this:

 

Melee combat -> allows better zombies -> allows less damage on gear -> allows loot to be more rare

Hunting and craftable weapons -> allows surviving with minimal amounts of loot -> allows loot to be more rare -> Raids can be made more rewarding AND more risky (better zeds)

Persistance -> allows to store supplies for later -> benefits those who bond together and form a group to search the right loot (car parts) -> allows zeds to be more numerous.

 

These things are all slowly starting to progress. I think the first thing we need before Zeds can get stronger and more numerous is a good melee system. How many ways of attacking/dodging there are isn't that important. The fact that melee right now is harder to aim then a rifle (seriously this is the case right now) is ridiculous, as said above, a firearm requires a lot more training. Actually the only thing i am sure we will see is a stabbing and hacking attack to choose from (hacking with a knife just looks stupid)

[Weedz 1105]

Hopefully it will eventually get to the point where Dying Light is where shooting a weapon is a last resort and will probably end in your dying due to zombie zerg. That game got that as close to perfect as I think any game will get any time soon. Melee is pretty good as well especially against human opponents (AI not real people).

 

 

 

Chivalry not so much. The way you get "good" at Chivalry is by learning to exploit the "bad" melee system it has and flinging your mouse around so that you hit people with the start of your attack instead of the middle like you're "supposed" to. AkA 360YoLoSWAGSWAG-noscopeheadshot melee style.

 

This game needs things like dodging and good animations not feinting and parrying like you were an Olympic fencer, renaissance fair actor, or Jedi Knight before the apocalypse. We're not wearing full suits of armor swinging around a 4lb sword.

Edited February 8, 2015 by Weedz

[Whyherro123 2283]

I think that the most important thing to be fixed is the fact that i always feel like a drunk man when using melee in first person. It is way harder to circle zombies in first-person then it is to do so in third. Perhaps melee should have a different cross-hair or at least it should be made a bit more visible where you land your strike, especially the delay is something which took me quite some time to master.

 

I think that a new melee system is something we MUST have before zombies get more dangerous, because right now i cannot fight zombies 5 to 1 with melee in first person unless i have a firefighter-axe and the guts to tank some hits in the hope that i break nothing.

 

I think the devs have some kind of progression map like this:

 

Melee combat -> allows better zombies -> allows less damage on gear -> allows loot to be more rare

Hunting and craftable weapons -> allows surviving with minimal amounts of loot -> allows loot to be more rare -> Raids can be made more rewarding AND more risky (better zeds)

Persistance -> allows to store supplies for later -> benefits those who bond together and form a group to search the right loot (car parts) -> allows zeds to be more numerous.

 

These things are all slowly starting to progress. I think the first thing we need before Zeds can get stronger and more numerous is a good melee system. How many ways of attacking/dodging there are isn't that important. The fact that melee right now is harder to aim then a rifle (seriously this is the case right now) is ridiculous, as said above, a firearm requires a lot more training. Actually the only thing i am sure we will see is a stabbing and hacking attack to choose from (hacking with a knife just looks stupid)

That is the thing: you shouldn't be able to fight 5 zombies at once. If you are, you did something wrong.