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Are Bandits a bad thing?

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Name a point in time during the entirety of human existence when we have lived without some form of laws, either written or unwritten, and I will call you a liar.

 

PS: the amount of looting and crime that occurred during the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina was greatly exaggerated by news media. Most of the "reports" were either completely made up, exaggerated beyond belief, or mere rumors.

 

http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/latimes/doc/422041076.html?FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&type=current&date=Sep%2027,%202005&author=Susannah%20Rosenblatt%20and%20James%20Rainey&pub=Los%20Angeles%20Times&edition=&startpage=A.16&desc=RITA%27S%20AFTERMATH;%20Katrina%20Takes%20a%20Toll%20on%20Truth,%20News%20Accuracy;%20Rumors%20supplanted%20accurate%20information%20and%20media%20magnified%20the%20problem.%20Rapes,%20violence%20and%20estimates%20of%20the%20dead%20were%20wrong

 

http://fair.org/extra-online-articles/demonizing-the-victims-of-katrina/

were you there?

 

cause my unit was, and i using katrina as point of reference. dude lol according to this 1754 bc. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_of_Hammurabi  but i am not putting what we went through in history versus what we can do today and can happen in the future if it happens. Because for one most ppl knew how to live of the land, or rather knew how to use to raw materials in everyday lives vs today we all just go to make MC donalds (sarcasm) 

 

but going back to what you said i am not talking about law alone i am talking about psycological effects.....

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yes i know is hard, farming vs hunting, shall we? you kill a dear you gut it and skin and a couple of ours you have cooked meat. farming, takes months depending of number/ size of crop but if we are to discuss one tomato it will take one month at least for it grow if i remember right and what are you going to do while you wait for it grow?. raising cattle even more work. Now with everything going crazy do you think ppl will have time to be able to raise crops and cattle? 

 

BUT here is the real question out of 7 billion ppl how many have the skills or know to actually do all that, while they are starving, left out to weather hazards, not protected by your local law or goverment? Katrina was just that my unit was one of those to go for katrina we had reports of 10 year old with 9 mils in hand.  

1) While you wait for your crops to grow, you:

-Go hunting/fishing/trapping

-Work on crafts. Carpentry, weaving, blacksmithing, etc etc etc

-Repair/maintain equipment. Sharpen axes, make new handles for tools, flatten out shovels

etc

 

Farmers didn't just sit around and twiddle their thumbs while they waited for crops to grow. Plenty of work that needs to be done, and even if it is, you could always work on trade supplies (hides, furs, cloth, cash crops {tobacco, spices, etc], seasoned lumber, dyes, etc). 

 

2) Most actual "survivalists" say  that cattle would be the last animal you want to raise, just like chickens. They require too much land, too much feed, too much time, etc all for a relatively low return. Goats are where it is at. Meat, wool, milk, horn, all from an animal that is small (can be kept in small enclosure), relatively independent, etc. Cattle were "status" animals throughout history, not "food" animals, because of the relative difficulty and expense involved in keeping them.

 

3) Farming is a group activity. I would expect at least a part of the 7 billion people to go and offer their labor to armed militias, who protect them in return for the harvest of their labors. Essentially, we would become a feudal/tribal society again. The "peasants" (who, in all actuality, were not treated badly during the Middle Ages) don't even really have to know how to farm. They just organize into work-gangs, and do what the people in charge of the compound say ("Dig this irrigation ditch","Now, we are going to plant "x", "You guys, cut and split this firewood", etc). Books would be worth their weight in gold because of this.

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were you there?

 

cause my unit was, and i using katrina as point of reference. dude lol according to this 1754 bc. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_of_Hammurabi  but i am not putting what we went through in history versus what we can do today and can happen in the future if it happens. Because for one most ppl knew how to live of the land, or rather knew how to use to raw materials in everyday lives vs today we all just go to make MC donalds (sarcasm) 

 

but going back to what you said i am not talking about law alone i am talking about psycological effects.....

Then post some damn sources proving your point. Or, post some actual sources that prove me wrong about Katrina, other than "I was there, and I heard some rumors". I am not saying there wasn't looting and violence, I am saying that most of the reports made by the news media (where we get most of our ideas concerning Katrina and New Orleans), were exaggerated at best and at worst, completely made up.

 

And, so long as we are in an organized group, the "psychological effects" don't really apply.

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1) While you wait for your crops to grow, you:

-Go hunting/fishing/trapping

-Work on crafts. Carpentry, weaving, blacksmithing, etc etc etc

-Repair/maintain equipment. Sharpen axes, make new handles for tools, flatten out shovels

etc

 

Farmers didn't just sit around and twiddle their thumbs while they waited for crops to grow. Plenty of work that needs to be done, and even if it is, you could always work on trade supplies (hides, furs, cloth, cash crops {tobacco, spices, etc], seasoned lumber, dyes, etc). 

 

2) Most actual "survivalists" say  that cattle would be the last animal you want to raise, just like chickens. They require too much land, too much feed, too much time, etc all for a relatively low return. Goats are where it is at. Meat, wool, milk, horn, all from an animal that is small (can be kept in small enclosure), relatively independent, etc. Cattle were "status" animals throughout history, not "food" animals, because of the relative difficulty and expense involved in keeping them.

 

3) Farming is a group activity. I would expect at least a part of the 7 billion people to go and offer their labor to armed militias, who protect them in return for the harvest of their labors. Essentially, we would become a feudal/tribal society again. The "peasants" (who, in all actuality, were not treated badly during the Middle Ages) don't even really have to know how to farm. They just organize into work-gangs, and do what the people in charge of the compound say ("Dig this irrigation ditch","Now, we are going to plant "x", "You guys, cut and split this firewood", etc). Books would be worth their weight in gold because of this.

 

 

thats what i am trying to get at, the % of ppl who can actually go in wild and know what they are doing is very small, this including military out of 7bi. ppl 

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thats what i am trying to get at, the % of ppl who can actually go in wild and know what they are doing is very small, this including military out of 7bi. ppl 

So....you learn or you die. With something like that, you learn fast.

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Then post some damn sources proving your point. Or, post some actual sources that prove me wrong about Katrina, other than "I was there, and I heard some rumors". I am not saying there wasn't looting and violence, I am saying that most of the reports made by the news media (where we get most of our ideas concerning Katrina and New Orleans), were exaggerated at best and at worst, completely made up.

 

And, so long as we are in an organized group, the "psychological effects" don't really apply.

 

so a source who used to work for the government specially in intel is not enough, lol i dont know about you but i never trust the media. 

 

a good exemple was the news when sadam was captured, we had him for a week already when cnn showed the news. here is one http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2009/08/secret-history-hurricane-katrina i said my unit was there not that i went there, and being national guard it was changed the way we trained for situations like katrina, and had first hand accounts and shewed even if i didnt train right, in other words rdy for combat.

Edited by reapers239

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dude is easy to assume that it will be quick. look at katrina how long it took to repair it or try to and yet it is not at 100% now that's with a running government. you and try to guess that would be a short period but it all depends on how many are alive, the size of dmg to infrastructures, scarcity of food vs numbers of people.

 

but bottom factor is their mind. Its not as easy or quick as you may think, things move fast today because we are connected and money can be wired in an instant, like i mentioned before i am looking at worst scenario.

 

During Hurricane Sandy, my city of Hoboken, NJ was completely flooded and blacked out for a week.  (Ironically, with my "post apocalypse gear" of North Face vest, flannel shirt and baseball hat, my wife said I "looked liked a character from that stupid zombie game I play").  To be honest, at times it did feel creepily like Cherno and Electro at night with all the blacked out buildings.  Not to mention all the unsubstantiated rumors of looting and whatnot.  But we didn't form into warlord clans and wage war against neighboring Weehawken.  (Mostly because my wife kept nagging me "stop trying to build a warlord clan to wage war against Weehawken!").  Sure a major factor is that we expect order and infrastructure to be restored in a few days.  But another major factor IMHO, is that it's very difficult to survive alone IRL as a raging asshole.

 

The Walking Dead is mostly bullshit.  You're in a zombie apocalypse with a group of friends and meet another group, do you think about fucking eating them or do you think "hey..if we combine our forces, we have twice as many able-bodies, guns, eyes watching for trouble, people to shoot the shit with. Particularly in The Walking Dead where there's a supermarket full of groceries to loot every 2 miles.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I haven't read all the replies here but the entire first page basically reads as if the current state of DayZ resembles the finished product.

 

:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:

 

The "finished product" isn't going to change much from the current state with respect to bandits.  The main problem is that it's always easier to just kill someone and take their shit rather than cooperate.  This was a problem in the Mod, the Standalone and will probably be a problem in H1Z1.  I don't really know how to solve this (or if it should even be solved).  But I don't think any of these games have figured our how to not turn onto a giant death match.

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During Hurricane Sandy, my city of Hoboken, NJ was completely flooded and blacked out for a week.  (Ironically, with my "post apocalypse gear" of North Face vest, flannel shirt and baseball hat, my wife said I "looked liked a character from that stupid zombie game I play").  To be honest, at times it did feel creepily like Cherno and Electro at night with all the blacked out buildings.  Not to mention all the unsubstantiated rumors of looting and whatnot.  But we didn't form into warlord clans and wage war against neighboring Weehawken.  (Mostly because my wife kept nagging me "stop trying to build a warlord clan to wage war against Weehawken!").  Sure a major factor is that we expect order and infrastructure to be restored in a few days.  But another major factor IMHO, is that it's very difficult to survive alone IRL as a raging asshole.

 

The Walking Dead is mostly bullshit.  You're in a zombie apocalypse with a group of friends and meet another group, do you think about fucking eating them or do you think "hey..if we combine our forces, we have twice as many able-bodies, guns, eyes watching for trouble, people to shoot the shit with. Particularly in The Walking Dead where there's a supermarket full of groceries to loot every 2 miles.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The "finished product" isn't going to change much from the current state with respect to bandits.  The main problem is that it's always easier to just kill someone and take their shit rather than cooperate.  This was a problem in the Mod, the Standalone and will probably be a problem in H1Z1.  I don't really know how to solve this (or if it should even be solved).  But I don't think any of these games have figured our how to not turn onto a giant death match.

 

 

thats the thing, well first i am glad you and family came out healthy. but my point was the event in a global level. I am not trying to come across that i have no faith in humanity, honestly humans are more cruel when it comes to power and ideals. however like i said and not to make a small deal of sandy´s outcome it was still a "small" area compared to the rest of the nation/globe. Though you did up bring something interesting sandy vs katrina, and how ppl reacted. A ZA will never happen but who knows, there are other threats that will have same psycological effect of such events if prolonged and to tie this up as far as RF lets hope it never happens yet something yo be aware of.

 

As for the game, mechanics are there so it is planned for, i feel the more play style the better for the game, makes chernarus feel bigger.

Edited by reapers239

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thats the thing, well first i am glad you and family came out healthy. but my point was the event in a global level. I am not trying to come across that i have no faith in humanity, honestly humans are more cruel when it comes to power and ideals. however like i said and not to make a small deal of sandy´s outcome it was still a "small" area compared to the rest of the nation/globe. Though you did up bring something interesting sandy vs katrina, and how ppl reacted. A ZA will never happen but who knows, there are other threats that will have same psycological effect of such events if prolonged and to tie this up as far as RF lets hope it never happens yet something yo be aware of.

 

As for the game, mechanics are there so it is planned for, i feel the more play style the better for the game, makes chernarus feel bigger.

 

No you are correct.  Even during Sandy, we never felt like our survival was threatened.  In fact, it seemed like getting rid of food before it spoiled was a bigger issue.  It could be a very different story if people were starving.

 

A lot of it relates to game theory though.  Do the rewards for two or more people cooperating outweigh each acting individually?

 

A funny thing though.  In spite of all the KoS, I have frequently teamed met random strangers who I've teamed up with.  And then we go become bandits together!

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i am looking at modern society, basing on how many really know how to live of the land and not only farming. I saying this from former military service in intel where we actually saw that deep scary stuff of what poverty and other areas can do to a person´s mind, how in Iraq a neighbor would tell of his friends stash of ak74s to get some reward  also hence why i mentioned what they do to those steal just two potatoes in Africa. 

 

now ask you this how people you know of that can live without relying on supermarkets? given that depending of whatever disaster, it might have a big effect on crops and etc. like some one noted this scenarios will bring the very best or the very worst out of people. I am not basing on ZA but also weather or nuclear disaster not even counting if the government is running or not. 

 

Also its not about if they can or are capable, is a matter if they can be strong mentally or not to face desperation.   

 

Because people band together and work things out because humans are pretty smart when left to their own devices in a country where the gov't isn't their enemy. With a ZA, a common enemy is the undead. People always band together - don't you want friends, a family - are you saying we'd forgo our greatest instinct - procreation.

 

Not to mention books will be available that will have everything you need to know about what you can and can't eat. Different people will know things and will benefit and yes, some people won't know things and they'll be got by zombies or will starve to death.

 

In your world you think this happens

 

 

 

No, you would crave other human contact.

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so a source who used to work for the government specially in intel is not enough, lol i dont know about you but i never trust the media. 

 

a good exemple was the news when sadam was captured, we had him for a week already when cnn showed the news. here is one http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2009/08/secret-history-hurricane-katrina i said my unit was there not that i went there, and being national guard it was changed the way we trained for situations like katrina, and had first hand accounts and shewed even if i didnt train right, in other words rdy for combat.

 

It's called "an argument from authority" and no, it's not good enough. You either source your argument or you make non at all. Evidence and facts are what win arguments, not hearsay and conjecture - it's how you get to the truth :)

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Because people band together and work things out because humans are pretty smart when left to their own devices in a country where the gov't isn't their enemy. With a ZA, a common enemy is the undead. People always band together - don't you want friends, a family - are you saying we'd forgo our greatest instinct - procreation.

 

Not to mention books will be available that will have everything you need to know about what you can and can't eat. Different people will know things and will benefit and yes, some people won't know things and they'll be got by zombies or will starve to death.

 

In your world you think this happens

 

 

 

No, you would crave other human contact.

 

 

But DayZ isn't like real life. What people would do in real life is completely irrelevant.

 

In DayZ you have no history, no connection with the place nor with any of the other survivors (unless you are playing with friends from outside the game). You have no future, either - no way of restarting civilisation or building a family. There's no motivation to band together, since approaching strangers is such a risk (this is mostly due to wonky character movement and combat mechanics).

 

When you join up with other people in DAyZ, it's for the sole purpose of making combat situations easier, since there is no necessity for shared survival tasks.

 

Because DayZ is so far removed from a realistic scenario, you can't really compare it in that way. Not yet, anyway.

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It's called "an argument from authority" and no, it's not good enough. You either source your argument or you make non at all. Evidence and facts are what win arguments, not hearsay and conjecture - it's how you get to the truth :)

 

 

ok let me pull out the reports we had? and i have showed a source.  funny thing is this a forum of a game, and you argument of evidence and facts are a double edge thing, because if they are fake and i  was able to convince you would still beleive what i am telling regardless? in fact something that the media does today. Dont care if you believe me or not but when i was in areas not katrina where i saw the worst and the good of human beings is true. 

 

I also could say that what ever you are saying is invalid and call for proof....... 

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But DayZ isn't like real life. What people would do in real life is completely irrelevant.

 

In DayZ you have no history, no connection with the place nor with any of the other survivors (unless you are playing with friends from outside the game). You have no future, either - no way of restarting civilisation or building a family. There's no motivation to band together, since approaching strangers is such a risk (this is mostly due to wonky character movement and combat mechanics).

 

When you join up with other people in DAyZ, it's for the sole purpose of making combat situations easier, since there is no necessity for shared survival tasks.

 

Because DayZ is so far removed from a realistic scenario, you can't really compare it in that way. Not yet, anyway.

 

 

Not to mention you only play a few hours at a time.  IRL, you can't just log off to go to sleep.  It helps to have someone else watching your back.  Or at the very least, just having some company.

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ok let me pull out the reports we had? and i have showed a source.  funny thing is this a forum of a game, and you argument of evidence and facts are a double edge thing, because if they are fake and i  was able to convince you would still beleive what i am telling regardless? in fact something that the media does today. Dont care if you believe me or not but when i was in areas not katrina where i saw the worst and the good of human beings is true. 

 

I also could say that what ever you are saying is invalid and call for proof....... 

 

This is wibble - show us a (credible)  source or you don't have an argument.

 

Or do you expect everyone here to believe you just because you said it's true?

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