rethinking the ak family

[gibonez 3633]

I have a simple idea on how to revamp the ak pattern rifles in a way that creates a hierarchy and better gameplay as a result.

1. Akm : remove all accessories and attachments from the weapon. Add to the description that it does not have a side mount. This change would render the akm a low tier eastern military rifle with no modularity . Rarity : uncommon military

2. Ak 74 : remove magnified optics such as the pso. Stocks and hand guards all attach

Railed hand guards allow the attachment of non magnified optics such as red dot sights. Rarity : rare military

3.aks 74u : keep as it is currently. However allow only this ak pattern weapon to accept silencers. Incorporate into the loot tables in two variants.

Bare aks 74u : rare military. Silenced aks 74u : ultra rare military.

4. Ak 101 : description changed turned into ak 74m . All ak family attachments function. Has a side rail for optics.

Rarity: ultra rare military

With these simple changes a hierarchy will be established with the ak pattern rifles and each weapon Will have a role .

More importantly these changes will help with differentiating each weapon system and as of now all of the ak pattern rifles feel and look the same due to the extreme modularity.

[odin_lowe 3686]

The current AK74 is just like that as you can't mount a PSO on it. Other than that I agree with the changes you mentioned. I doubt they will happen though, maybe when we get mods.

Edited December 2, 2014 by Odin Lowe

[Draco122 412]

I still think you shound be able to find a Side rail for both the AKM and AK74 but it requires you have a screwdriver to attach it.

[WilliamMort 18]

I still think you shound be able to find a Side rail for both the AKM and AK74 but it requires you have a screwdriver to attach it.

 

 

Man whats this about rails? Just give the AK family a Cobra sight and we're Aok.

[Chaingunfighter 917]

Or just have everything but their respective stock parts be incredibly rare, not because of variety but simply because the weapon degradation system would benefit more if guns like the AKM were treated with more individual parts rather than less. Most weapons should be stock for the majority of their gametime and AK weapons especially should have even rarer attachments, for the most part, because they're not designed as a modular weapon series.

Also, changing the AK-101 into an AK-74M won't make it more modular than an AK-74... the only base difference between an AK-74 and AK-74M is the stock, handguard, and pistol grip material. There are other differences between present-day manufactured AK-74Ms and 1970s AK-74s, but for the most part it's hard to represent them ingame (and the AK-74 model in game is the same on the AK-101.)

If they plan to remove the AK-101 for the AK-74M they may as well just scrap the gun entirely, because it'd be pointless to have one that spawns with polymer parts but still uses 5.45mm rounds that's simply rarer. I do think they should give it the correct magazine, though.

 

Alternatively, we could have this as the "low-end" AK rifle, with few to no attachments, including the PSO-1 because of the different receiver;

Then you get the AK74 which was the standard rifle of the CDF and is thus the second most common AR - lower-end damage but less recoil and high velocity rounds. The AK-74 can swap handguards, stocks, and accept the PSO-1. The AKS-74U fits with this, save for not accepting handguard attachments.

Then you have the AKM, which is still fairly common but less common than the AK-74 because it's been phased out of main-line service and is a common secondhand rifle. Like the AK-74, has all of the AK available attachments.

Finally you have the AK-101, a helicopter crashsite spawn weapon that is essentially an AK-74 that utilizes the 5.56x45mm round.

 

And with this you extremely limit all AK attachments save for the standard wooden handguards and stocks, just because custom AK rifles do exist and are possible, just not common.

[pilgrim* 3514]

Not objecting to the ideas here BUT:

 

Everyone is still saying "rare" and "ultra rare" as though they know what it means. This has gone on for a year.

 

Can someone tell me, in percentages, number of players, objects per server, spawn frequency, or any REAL evaluation..

what "rare" means?

Just so we know what we are talking about.

 

At present RARE means that all the PvP kids are wearing it or toting it.

[Evil Minion 943]

that creates a hierarchy and better gameplay as a result.

Hierarchy does not create better gameplay. Tradeoffs do. In this regard I would roughly stick to their real life properties and keep the AK-101 in favor of the AK-74M. Also most of the AK type weapons should be able to use all the AK attachments. Though attachments as described elsewhere should not change dispersion but rather handling.

 

AKM:

+ highest damage/penetration

+ most common (lets take this as 100%)

+ uses relatively common 7.62x39mm rounds

- highest recoil

- slowest projectile speed

- high dispersion (~0.0018)

 

AK-74

+ least recoil

+ relatively common (~80%)

+ highest projectile speed

- medium dispersion (~0.0014)

- ammo relatively uncommon

- relatively low damage

 

AKS-74U

+ low recoil

+ lightest/least sway

+ increased dexterity

+ higher rate of fire

+ high projectile speed

+ small and easy to carry

- highest dispersion (~0.003)

- lowest damage

- ammo relatively uncommon

- no side rail for optics

- fixed handguard

 

AK-101

+ low recoil

+ high projectile speed

+ medium damage

+ good dispersion (~0.0012)

- very rare (~15%)

- uses very rare ammo

 

Why the AK-101 over the AK-74M? Simply because there are more differences to the AK-74 which causes more variety than having a straight upgrade. Also using different ammo does actually allow for a overall slightly superior weapon as sustain is not coupled.

 

We basically got the AKM as "brute", the AK-74 as reliable "base choice", the AKS-74U as less cumbersome option and the AK-101 as the most sophisticated but least practical choice.

[Chaingunfighter 917]

Not objecting to the ideas here BUT:

 

Everyone is still saying "rare" and "ultra rare" as though they know what it means. This has gone on for a year.

 

Can someone tell me, in percentages, number of players, objects per server, spawn frequency, or any REAL evaluation..

what "rare" means?

Just so we know what we are talking about.

 

At present RARE means that all the PvP kids are wearing it or toting it.

Meaning it spawns in extremely low numbers, possibly less than what we have now.

Collectively over time you have a build up of stuff and there's the simple fact that not a whole lot in game is actually rare, especially the "most desirable" stuff; attachments and ammunition are easy to find, as are their respective weapons.

An example of something truly rare is the PM-73 RAK, you almost never see it, partially because it's not any better than the more common MP5K and partially because it is so damn hard to find. I wouldn't be upset if railed AK handguards and other unique aftermarket parts like that were relegated to Mi-8 crashsites, just as the PM-73 is.

 

Basically just lower chance values on the loot tables coupled with an overall higher variety of potential loot across many loot spawns.

[gibonez 3633]

Yea the rarity descriptions I threw out are only relative to each other.

Meaning it would go from most common to least common only in reference to the list.

[Jhunt7507 29]

Agreed. The AK101 should have all the "tacticool" options

[B4GEL 175]

In my opinion the scale from most common to rarest should be:

 

AK74

AKM

AKS-74U

AK101/74M

The AKM can't be the most common AK, simply because it's too good, it uses a common ammo and has the highest damage. Modularity isn't so much of a game changer that removing attachment compatibility will negate its pro's. The devs have reduced the frequency of 7.62x39 spawning outside army bases as a way to reduce the effectiveness of the AKM but all that does is make the CR527 (and to a lesser extent the SKS) useless. 

On modularity all AKs should fit the attachments they can in real life, i doubt AK74 and AKM furniture is is interchangeable irl, so it shouldn't be in game (correct me if I'm wrong here).

 

The damage done by 5.45x39 should be much closer to 5.56x45 than it is currently.

If the damage of 5.45 is changed to be more realistic and there is little difference between it and 5.56 the AK101 and AK74 would perform pretty much the same which would mean the AK101 may as well be an AK74m which would just be a lighter, more durable and more accurate AK74 with the added benefit of being more realistic.

[gibonez 3633]

In my opinion the scale from most common to rarest should be:

AK74

AKM

AKS-74U

AK101/74M

The AKM can't be the most common AK, simply because it's too good, it uses a common ammo and has the highest damage. Modularity isn't so much of a game changer that removing attachment compatibility will negate its pro's. The devs have reduced the frequency of 7.62x39 spawning outside army bases as a way to reduce the effectiveness of the AKM but all that does is make the CR527 (and to a lesser extent the SKS) useless.

On modularity all AKs should fit the attachments they can in real life, i doubt AK74 and AKM furniture is is interchangeable irl, so it shouldn't be in game (correct me if I'm wrong here).

The damage done by 5.45x39 should be much closer to 5.56x45 than it is currently.

If the damage of 5.45 is changed to be more realistic and there is little difference between it and 5.56 the AK101 and AK74 would perform pretty much the same which would mean the AK101 may as well be an AK74m which would just be a lighter, more durable and more accurate AK74 with the added benefit of being more realistic.

With realistic attributes to the weapons and lack of modularity the akm would be inferior to the ak74 in every way.

The ballistics would be key to this. The dramatic ballistic curve of the akm would result in limited appeal over 300m.

Not to mention it is way too accurate in game.

The flatter trajectory , better wound profile of 5.45 and accuracy of the ak74 would put it above the akm.

Btw tons of akms do not have dude rails for mounting optics. For example Romanian and Chinese akms do not have side rails.

The Chinese akm US probably the most mass produced of all stamped akms

Edited December 4, 2014 by gibonez

[Helix2000 128]

The AKM can't be the most common AK, simply because it's too good, it uses a common ammo and has the highest damage. Modularity isn't so much of a game changer that removing attachment compatibility will negate its pro's. The devs have reduced the frequency of 7.62x39 spawning outside army bases as a way to reduce the effectiveness of the AKM but all that does is make the CR527 (and to a lesser extent the SKS) useless. 

if they ever get around to putting a scope and bipod in the CZ527, i dont think it will be useless. purely because if the AK family is re-done, and the AKM becomes the default, no modularity rifle, the CZ527 will be able to take it in range and precision. the only problem will be finding the mags.

[gibonez 3633]

if they ever get around to putting a scope and bipod in the CZ527, i dont think it will be useless. purely because if the AK family is re-done, and the AKM becomes the default, no modularity rifle, the CZ527 will be able to take it in range and precision. the only problem will be finding the mags.

Yup.

The only thing keeping the cz down is the magazine issues and the lack of realistic accessories for it like scopes.

Not to mention for overly accurate the akm seems in game in comparison to real life.

[stielhandgranate 480]

I'm sorry. This is trading realism for arcade style game play. In real life AKMs and AK74s with side rails are common. The inception of the side accessory rail isn't something recent that came with the AK74M iteration. The only thing I could see is adding AK-47s that are absent a side rail and make it a low tier select fire weapon.

[gibonez 3633]

I'm sorry. This is trading realism for arcade style game play. In real life AKMs and AK74s with side rails are common. The inception of the side accessory rail isn't something recent that came with the AK74M iteration. The only thing I could see is adding AK-47s that are absent a side rail and make it a low tier select fire weapon.

There are more akm models without the rail than there are with it.

The akm did not get a side rail mount until the akml.

The most mass produced akm probably the norinco type 56 has no side rail.

The Romanian akm has no rail.

The Yugoslav akm did not get a side mount until the m70b1n.

The original ak74 the one in game does not have a side rail. That did not come until the ak74n.

Each ak74m does however have a side rail.

The changes I suggested are not only realistic but better for gameplay.

[a_ruttle 199]

 then you have the AKM, which is still fairly common but less common than the AK-74 because it's been phased out of main-line service and is a common secondhand rifle. Like the AK-74, has all of the AK available attachments.

NAPA, Chedakis, CDF Militia/reserve units. There are AKMs EVERYWHERE.

Edited December 5, 2014 by a_ruttle

[stielhandgranate 480]

The most mass produced akm probably the norinco type 56 has no side rail.

The Romanian akm has no rail.

The Yugoslav akm did not get a side mount until the m70b1n.

 

 

Its very doubtful that these are Norinco AKs. If it was the middle east then maybe, but East Europe was the USSR's weapons export domain. I'm not too sure but I think Yugo and Romanian AKs are more common imports to the west for sporter rifles than military exports. Its not like AKs are separated in game by variants like AKMS as the underfolder is treated like an attachment.

 

 

 

The changes I suggested are not only realistic but better for gameplay.

 

 

Better gameplay? Its not like the game is flooded with DMR AK rifles. The PSO-1P scope is pretty damn rare. It might be so rare we might be seeing SVD rifles being often used as Battle rifles when they are implemented.

[gibonez 3633]

Its very doubtful that these are Norinco AKs. If it was the middle east then maybe, but East Europe was the USSR's weapons export domain. I'm not too sure but I think Yugo and Romanian AKs are more common imports to the west for sporter rifles than military exports. Its not like AKs are separated in game by variants like AKMS as the underfolder is treated like an attachment.

Better gameplay? Its not like the game is flooded with DMR AK rifles. The PSO-1P scope is pretty damn rare. It might be so rare we might be seeing SVD rifles being often used as Battle rifles when they are implemented.

Fine say the akm in game is of Soviet origin it still would not have a side rail.

Only the akml got a side rail and those were not common at all.

It would be better for gameplay by setting up a hierarchy when it comes to the eastern weapons. Not to mention fixing the ammo issue by consolidating the magazines for the ak74 and keeping 556 NATO as a western caliber. Not to mention having a high tier eastern rifle that takes all eastern attachments in the form of the ak74m.

The changes I suggest make sense in every conceivable way.

Edited December 5, 2014 by gibonez

[B4GEL 175]

The flatter trajectory , better wound profile of 5.45 and accuracy of the ak74 would put it above the akm.

 

IRL I'm sure you're right but i don't think that it will necessarily translate to being better in game.

 

if they ever get around to putting a scope and bipod in the CZ527, i dont think it will be useless. purely because if the AK family is re-done, and the AKM becomes the default, no modularity rifle, the CZ527 will be able to take it in range and precision. the only problem will be finding the mags.

I'm not saying it's inherently useless but as it stands, even when it does get a scope, the Mosin will be the better choice. The Mosin does more damage and uses easier to find ammo, the CR527's low damage needs to be balanced by high ammo availability and they can't increase the availability of 7.62x39 if the AKM is the most common assault rifle.     

[gibonez 3633]

IRL I'm sure you're right but i don't think that it will necessarily translate to being better in game.

I'm not saying it's inherently useless but as it stands, even when it does get a scope, the Mosin will be the better choice. The Mosin does more damage and uses easier to find ammo, the CR527's low damage needs to be balanced by high ammo availability and they can't increase the availability of 7.62x39 if the AKM is the most common assault rifle.

When both the akm and ak74 have only iron sights and you notice your akm shots are hitting the dirt at medium range meanwhile the ak74 zips right to target people will see the difference.

I will say however you people are completely right on rarity the vanilla ak74 should be far more common than the akm.

This opens the door for civilian 7.62x39 spawns helping both the Cz and sks. Not to mention the akm should no longer be issued for quite a few decades.

As for the mosin it is set to lose the lrs. That alone will remove some of it's appeal. Combine that with the proper inaccuracy of most surplus mosins and the tack driving cz with a proper optic becomes the new favorite precision rifle.

[5mirkeh 98]

How I see the AK family going

 

AKM, Heavy and heavier hitting, innacurate over 300 to 400 metres and somewhat common, accepts the PSO 1

 

AK74, Slightly less heavy than the AKM and a slight (but noticable) accuracy and recoil inprovment alongside faster bullet travel time, accepts all AK attachments

 

AK47U, lighter and easier to carry than the normal 74 but has the same recoil and accuracy of the AKM, can only accept the PSO 1 and buttstock attachments

 

AK101, As light as the 74 and and has overall better stats over the other AKs but with a slight damage nerf, Accepts everything and is only found at crashsites

[B4GEL 175]

When both the akm and ak74 have only iron sights and you notice your akm shots are hitting the dirt at medium range meanwhile the ak74 zips right to target people will see the difference.

I will say however you people are completely right on rarity the vanilla ak74 should be far more common than the akm.

This opens the door for civilian 7.62x39 spawns helping both the Cz and sks. Not to mention the akm should no longer be issued for quite a few decades.

As for the mosin it is set to lose the lrs. That alone will remove some of it's appeal. Combine that with the proper inaccuracy of most surplus mosins and the tack driving cz with a proper optic becomes the new favorite precision rifle.

When they remove the lrs from the Mosin they'll most likely add a new bolt action in 7.62x54r/51 that does take it so i don't think that will necessarily resolve the issue. Hopefully it will be much rarer so that the Mosin with PU or CR with lrs are the available options for most people. 

[Chaingunfighter 917]

I still don't see the good effect of completely deleting the AK family's modularity. Again, the best thing the devs could do would be extremely reduce the spawn rates of specialized parts ala the railed handguard, PSO-1, side/underfolder stocks, and polymer parts.

Instead of affecting dispersion, parts like that should change weight and dexterity (underfolder/sidefolder have low weight, underfolder with less recoil and sidefolder with better dexterity. Polymer parts are lighter, same dexterity, and increased recoil. Rails are heavier, less dexterity, and SLIGHTLY less recoil. PSO-1 adds weight and reduces dexterity. AKM/AK74 wood is basically identical.)

The rest comes from aesthetic preference and rarity; you can still customize your AK as much as you want but finding extra parts is very difficult.

The CR-527 becomes useful because it gets the LRS that the Mosin has, and spawns are more balanced.

[Chaingunfighter 917]

And actually gibonez, the AK-74 in game DOES have side rails, just as the AK-74M does. The AK-74 is the exact same model as the AK-101, just spawns with different furniture.

You can tell because the 74's pistol grip is still the black polymer one rather than the brown one that the AKS-74U uses.

(Though currently the AK74 CANNOT use the PSO-1, so it doesn't matter.)