A question about renderer and the scope of the game

[cuartas 36]

I wan't some answer about this question.

We know the new renderer is part of the new scope they established after the PS4 version was announced but I'm wondering: what could happened if this game had never received all that money and PS4 version was never in the plan? were they happy with the current renderer, DX9 version and the lack of optimization? or they initially had different optimization strategies?

 

I'm asking this because now the only FPS hope is the new renderer and I can't see another feature that could help in the client side.

 

Thanks

Edited November 29, 2014 by cuartas

[NuckFuts 265]

I know it's well spoken that DayZ is not a very optimized game but then I think.. the game world/map is HUGE. I imagine they are aware of the struggles people have with performance so it's obvious it's going to be an area of improvement for them.

 

in the meantime, turn down your graphics settings, that should help get you slightly better FPS (works for me).. and if you have to turn them right down and still have unplayable FPS issues, then its probably time for a PC upgrade I think.. now thats never what a person wants to hear but sometimes it has to be said.. and done.

 

I'm not sure what a PS4 version has to do with the PC performance though? as far as I know its called porting.

[rickyriot 1009]

in the meantime, turn down your graphics settings, that should help get you slightly better FPS (works for me).. and if you have to turn them right down and still have unplayable FPS issues, then its probably time for a PC upgrade I think.. now thats never what a person wants to hear but sometimes it has to be said.. and done.

 

I'm sorry but you are just plain wrong with that.

 

I have a PC that runs Watchdogs at fairly high graphical detail, and it's well known being an open world that requires a high minimum spec to run it. DayZ on the other hand, even at the lowest graphics quality struggles to get about 15 FPS in some towns, which is pretty much useless for any PvP.

 

Just saying, turn it low and if it's still shit, upgrade, is not the answer. The answer is for the engine to be optimised and to support things like multi-core CPUs.

 

 

 

Right, onto the OPs question. I did spot the new renderer in the 2015 roadmap list and I genuinely look forward to it. I would say though, and this is just a guess, that it's all part of the encapsulation of the differing DayZ elements, allowing for better maintenance and improvements later on down the line. For example, if you wished to port DayZ not just to the PS4 but to other consoles then it makes sense to not have it directly hooked to the current rendering engine. You would however wish to port over the logic for, say, the animals and their AI, no need to reinvent the wheel, and if it's separate from the rendering engine then it makes that job much easier.

 

I do, of course, hope for some considerable improvements on the client side when this new renderer is implemented.

Edited November 29, 2014 by ricp

[NuckFuts 265]

It's common knowledge that the FPS is horrible in towns.. it always has been, no matter how powerful your rig is. My point is/was that some people expect the game to run nice and smooth.. they see YT vids of the streamers who have bagfulls of money to blow on up to date hardware and are sometimes blind to how DayZ runs on a normal/moderate gaming PC, then when they get it.. are suprised to see that its nothing like what they saw on YT.

 

I also never said its gonna magically give 60FPS, but cranking the settings down does help.

 

Also them minimum specs listed for DayZ in steam are a joke, surely?

[rickyriot 1009]

I also never said its gonna magically give 60FPS, but cranking the settings down does help.

 

Also them minimum specs listed for DayZ in steam are a joke, surely?

Don't disagree with either of those, although I have to say I've not looked at the min specs in some time.

It's common knowledge that the FPS is horrible in towns.. it always has been, no matter how powerful your rig is.

Which runs contrary to the point you were first making. I'm not trying to get into a fight about this, I appreciate what you are saying, but effectively just now DayZ runs like treacle at times and it's clear as the towns have been added the devs haven't optimised them. I was trying to defend myself on the stairs of the Novo tower the other day and it was a joke. I think I must have ended up about 10FPS.

Time of course will help, I'm not complaining just a little disappointed. I also accept that turning down the settings helps. But I am on very low for just about everything and running at a 1600x900 screen res, and it's painful in some of the towns.

[Girth Brooks 570]

I don't see a port meaning too much for consoles, since they don't display at 1080 or above. I would think at best they would be gimped visual-wise. But it's safe to say that if they plan to port, then optimization is a must.

[Steak and Potatoes 13480]

I wan't some answer about this question.

We know the new renderer is part of the new scope they established after the PS4 version was announced but I'm wondering: what could happened if this game had never received all that money and PS4 version was never in the plan? were they happy with the current renderer, DX9 version and the lack of optimization? or they initially had different optimization strategies?

 

I'm asking this because now the only FPS hope is the new renderer and I can't see another feature that could help in the client side.

 

Thanks

 

I'm sure there have always been ideas about optimization strategies and there is always room for improvement but overall the Arma series in general has never been a highly optimized set.  Alot of Arma's issues as posted above are communication issues between the client and server.  That said Arma also needs you in alot of ways to tell it how to be run in order to maximize performance from your PC via launch parameters. 

[kichilron 8550]

I'm asking this because now the only FPS hope is the new renderer and I can't see another feature that could help in the client side.

 

There is no optimization in the game yet. You can't possibly know what will be the outcome once they start and the renderer doesn't necessarily have anything at all to do with it.

 

Your assumption is just that - an assumption that may even be very wrong. Only time will tell, I am afraid.

 

 

I'm sorry but you are just plain wrong with that.

 

I have a PC that runs Watchdogs at fairly high graphical detail, and it's well known being an open world that requires a high minimum spec to run it. DayZ on the other hand, even at the lowest graphics quality struggles to get about 15 FPS in some towns, which is pretty much useless for any PvP.

 

I'm sorry but you are just plain wrong with that.

 

I played Watch_Dogs and I can really say I am on TotalBiscuit's side when it comes to the graphical issues of it. Watch_Dogs has terrible performance-problems and as a result of that is nowhere near of what DayZ is accomplishing and here is why:

 

http://youtu.be/IBb2BIVrV7M?t=21m26s

Edited November 29, 2014 by kichilron

[NuckFuts 265]

I'm not trying to get into a fight about this, I appreciate what you are saying, but effectively just now DayZ runs like treacle at times and it's clear as the towns have been added the devs haven't optimised them. I was trying to defend myself on the stairs of the Novo tower the other day and it was a joke. I think I must have ended up about 10FPS.

Time of course will help, I'm not complaining just a little disappointed. I also accept that turning down the settings helps. But I am on very low for just about everything and running at a 1600x900 screen res, and it's painful in some of the towns.

 

Oh I feel ya, no fights here bro.. I have had as low as 5-6 FPS in some towns in DayZ. I know the feeling well. We can only hope things like what the OP talks about do improve how the game performs.. either it gets sorted or I might have to get the PS4 version when it comes.. maybe that's what they want? $$$ haha!

[rickyriot 1009]

I'm sorry but you are just plain wrong with that.

 

I played Watch_Dogs and I can really say I am on TotalBiscuit's side when it comes to the graphical issues of it. Watch_Dogs has terrible performance-problems and as a result of that is nowhere near of what DayZ is accomplishing and here is why:

 

http://youtu.be/IBb2BIVrV7M?t=21m26s

As a big fan of TB I have seen the vid. There is no argument that WD is in any way a good example, but it is a recognised open world title that requires a decent PC to run.

The thing is WD runs one hell of a lot better than DayZ, and while you could argue that we are comparing apples to oranges, you could also argue that WD is moving a hell of a lot more about than DayZ.

If you wish me to change my comparison title, would you like me to swap to Far Cry 3 or 4? A similar open world with a long view distance, which ran well on my rig which is funny considering how messy Ubisoft can be with their titles.

I'm not complaining you understand, I understand why DayZ runs like a dog (well to a certain level at least). Let's hope the new renderer improves things or at least some optimised tweaks and perhaps Dx11 comes in.

Edit: btw, did you add in the high-res mod to WD? It looks luuuurvley.. it also addresses the draw distance/popping issue to an extent.

 

Edited November 29, 2014 by ricp

[FrostyKush 44]

Around 7 months ago when they first started talking about the new renderer I saw one of the devs (rocket I think) talking about multicore/multithreading for clients as well as the servers and 64bit clients. This coupled with the improvements in rendering from DX11 should net some serious performance gains down the road. Traditionally optimizations don't occur until beta in any software, since alpha is for adding the feature set and beta is for bugfixing and code optimization. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle 

[cuartas 36]

Around 7 months ago when they first started talking about the new renderer I saw one of the devs (rocket I think) talking about multicore/multithreading for clients as well as the servers and 64bit clients. This coupled with the improvements in rendering from DX11 should net some serious performance gains down the road. Traditionally optimizations don't occur until beta in any software, since alpha is for adding the feature set and beta is for bugfixing and code optimization. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle 

LOL, you are the only that understood my question.

That's my point, before they decided to make a new renderer and use dx11 because of ps4 port I was wondering about what optimization features with the current renderer and dx9 they had in mind, and what could be the final result.

Then you mentioned 2 features (multicore support and 64 bits client), I can't see them in the newest 2015 roadmap http://steamcommunity.com/app/221100/discussions/0/624076027527531863/

Maybe included in the renderer part?

 

On the other hand you're wrong, they will optimize before beta (see the roadmap), unless renderer doesn't mean optimization

[ChainReactor 922]

We know the new renderer is part of the new scope they established after the PS4 version was announced

 

Wait, no. The PS4 announcement was made on Aug 12th 2014. Rocket was already talking about the new renderer in an AMA in January:

 

 

Graphics

• We need to split out the rendering. It's closely bound to simulation currently, so it's very difficult to change the renderer. Some aspect of rendering are based in DX7! So we need to split it all out so the core engine can have its renderer changed easily. This makes it easier, say to clip in openGL, etc... (if you didn't know, they're going to gut and redo parts of the renderer)

• Its something a programmer will be devoted onto for a long time, branched off, with a horrendous merge at some point in the future. (in reference to time frame redoing renderer will take)

• I really hope we can. We will be splitting the renderer out. But it won't be priority number 1. I just hope we can do that as part of everything else.

 

So the need of a new renderer was in no way connected to the PS4 announcement. Sure its a requirement to have a crossplatform renderer to port the game to PS4, but i highly doubt that they had a PS4 release in mind when they decided to develop a new renderer ( as the old one was really outdated anyway ).

[FrostyKush 44]

LOL, you are the only that understood my question.

That's my point, before they decided to make a new renderer and use dx11 because of ps4 port I was wondering about what optimization features with the current renderer and dx9 they had in mind, and what could be the final result.

Then you mentioned 2 features (multicore support and 64 bits client), I can't see them in the newest 2015 roadmap http://steamcommunity.com/app/221100/discussions/0/624076027527531863/

Maybe included in the renderer part?

 

On the other hand you're wrong, they will optimize before beta (see the roadmap), unless renderer doesn't mean optimization

Yes I noticed that wasn't on the roadmap, thinking maybe they wanna try it internally before putting it out like that or they were grouping in it with optimization or the renderer. The beta optimization I was talking about were the heavy optimizations we will likely see at that stage. I'm sure with the renderer they will do some client side optimization to see what they will have to play with object count wise in a given area.

[cuartas 36]

Wait, no. The PS4 announcement was made on Aug 12th 2014. Rocket was already talking about the new renderer in an AMA in January:

 

 

So the need of a new renderer was in no way connected to the PS4 announcement. Sure its a requirement to have a crossplatform renderer to port the game to PS4, but i highly doubt that they had a PS4 release in mind when they decided to develop a new renderer ( as the old one was really outdated anyway ).

If you see rocket comments after the PS4 announcement, you can see that the only reason to make a new rederer was because of PS4 and dx11 was needed to work on that console.

So it's a little confusing

[fluxley 2228]

Wait, no. The PS4 announcement was made on Aug 12th 2014. Rocket was already talking about the new renderer in an AMA in January:

 

 

So the need of a new renderer was in no way connected to the PS4 announcement. Sure its a requirement to have a crossplatform renderer to port the game to PS4, but i highly doubt that they had a PS4 release in mind when they decided to develop a new renderer ( as the old one was really outdated anyway ).

 

When we first heard about the new renderer thay hadn't yet announced the PS4 version,

But then afterwards it turned out that they could only justify the huge expense and amount of work it would take to separate the old renderer if they could expand the games market by porting to other systems.

 

So without the PS4 the move to dx11 (and potentially openGL) probably would never happen.

[r.pitura@live.com.au 12]

Consoles is where the money is and has been for a long time,but if you look at the specs for a console the lowest rig players have here will be like a beast compared to a console so i wouldn't be getting your knickers in a knot just yet,wait i think you will be surprised how good once its fixed up with the new render and everything else how good this game will run..

 

Be calm eat your beans grow strong to kill the east coast bambies..