Emotions-Possible KOS Deterrent

[sachad 1016]

Well than players should do it, instead of crying for devs help. 

We can agree on that at least!

[scriptfactory 620]

Well than players should do it, instead of crying for devs help.

If players had a way to do it they would. That is kinda' the point, right?

[hleVqq 139]

What I was trying to say is, if a person has no kills then they are inherently not a KoSer. It doesn't mean they are not working with KoSers or haven't tried to KOS but they haven't actually KoSed anyone.

But that's the thing. The game cannot detect a person's mentality. A KOSer shouldn't be considered a hero only because they didn't get the chance to KOS, or because they happened to KOS a bandit/KOSer.

[scriptfactory 620]

But that's the thing. The game cannot detect a person's mentality. A KOSer shouldn't be considered a hero only because they didn't get the chance to KOS, or because they happened to KOS a bandit/KOSer.

I totally agree, dude.

The only problem I see, right now, is that SA offers nothing to combat the griefing and KoS behavior that also plagued Mod .I believe the game should either offer an "emotion framework" that offers players a baseline for judging other player behavior or offer in-game items (safe trading, bounty system, etc.) that allows players to regulate this behavior themselves. The way the game plays out right now is, in my opinion, absolutely not fun.

By "emotion framework" I mean a system that offers players a way to tell what activities a person has done in the past. This would need to be persistent and as unobtrusive as possible, which is why I suggested ambient music for conveying emotional state. It isn't about hero vs. bandit. It isn't about trusting this person or not. It is about, what exactly has this person done in the past? If people could detect that you are a wanton murderer or a cannibal I think player behavior would change.

"What have you done? We've all done somethin'."

--Rick Grimes

p.s. I would rather have an in-game bounty system or whatever but I, personally, feel this is something that would be less realistic than a simple emotional framework. It would require magic to share bounty information cross-server.

 

[Xbow 362]

As a possible deterrent for people to kill on sight, KOS, I think that DayZ should implement a sort of emotion system..........

 

The last thing this game needs is an automated morals NANNY

[General Zod 1118]

If players had a way to do it they would. That is kinda' the point, right?

You do, form up a police squad, travel the map. 

Protect and serve. 

Police does not have a 6th sense telling them that someone is a a bandit unless they see that person doing the bandit things, or someone reports that bandit. 

Sure It might be more difficult to judge people in game. But that's not good enough to rationalise adding system like the one proposed here.  

[Chaingunfighter 917]

I totally agree, dude.

The only problem I see, right now, is that SA offers nothing to combat the griefing and KoS behavior that also plagued Mod .I believe the game should either offer an "emotion framework" that offers players a baseline for judging other player behavior or offer in-game items (safe trading, bounty system, etc.) that allows players to regulate this behavior themselves. The way the game plays out right now is, in my opinion, absolutely not fun.

By "emotion framework" I mean a system that offers players a way to tell what activities a person has done in the past. This would need to be persistent and as unobtrusive as possible, which is why I suggested ambient music for conveying emotional state. It isn't about hero vs. bandit. It isn't about trusting this person or not. It is about, what exactly has this person done in the past? If people could detect that you are a wanton murderer or a cannibal I think player behavior would change.

 

That's the problem - there is no way that this kind of system could be persistent and unobtrusive, and at the same time remain efficient and not be clunky.

 

KoS and "griefing" need to be alleviated using more subtle and realistic concepts, not strange telepathic communication or ambient music (music was removed for a reason, you know). One of the most important things it to give people a common goal, i.e. have vehicle parts & building materials take up large spaces of inventory, and you encourage people to build a base or restore a car as a team, rather than on their own. Make ammunition, firearms, and weapons in general more rare, and people will be less inclined to use them. Yeah, some people will still take every opportunity they get to shoot at people they see, but you'll have far fewer people "hunting" along the coast and probably see a steady increase in interaction. And, of course, the environment can be made more hostile. Not to the point that everyone is forced to work together and we throw away group competition or lone wolf playstyles, but at least to the point that basic interaction, like trading or actual banditry, is encouraged.

 

You can't "look into someone's path" or accurately assume that "there's something wrong about this guy" with mental projections. Yeah, we all make judgements based on people's appearances and actions (sometimes wrongly so), but that should remain it in DayZ - if some guy looks hostile, you should know not to trust him. Granted, yes, people can deceive, but that's all a part of the fun and realism of the game. You should have to use your own judgement, not some feature that may not even be giving you useful information.

 

And I honestly fail to see how this will alleviate KoS anyway, because typically rampant KoS'ers will kill you anyway. You won't get a chance to interact with them, because they'll just shoot you. Honestly this is only making it worse for more interesting ways of hostile playstyles to come about, not actually deathmatchers or KoS'ers.

[scriptfactory 620]

Police does not have a 6th sense telling them that someone is a a bandit unless they see that person doing the bandit things, or someone reports that bandit. 

 

This is exactly what I am saying we need for self-policing. There is no way to track (or report) bad players. People can just jump from server to server to continue their deathmatch. People can put on the clothes of someone else or just change their avatar. There is a complete lack of player accountability and there is no way (even on private servers) for people to report or punish egregious behavior.

This is, I believe, by design. It is not fun, in my opinion. Nothing about the current DayZ deathmatch is fun. It wasn't fun in Mod either.

 

 

That's the problem - there is no way that this kind of system could be persistent and unobtrusive, and at the same time remain efficient and not be clunky.

 

KoS and "griefing" need to be alleviated using more subtle and realistic concepts, not strange telepathic communication or ambient music (music was removed for a reason, you know). One of the most important things it to give people a common goal, i.e. have vehicle parts & building materials take up large spaces of inventory, and you encourage people to build a base or restore a car as a team, rather than on their own. Make ammunition, firearms, and weapons in general more rare, and people will be less inclined to use them. Yeah, some people will still take every opportunity they get to shoot at people they see, but you'll have far fewer people "hunting" along the coast and probably see a steady increase in interaction. And, of course, the environment can be made more hostile. Not to the point that everyone is forced to work together and we throw away group competition or lone wolf playstyles, but at least to the point that basic interaction, like trading or actual banditry, is encouraged.

 

You can't "look into someone's path" or accurately assume that "there's something wrong about this guy" with mental projections. Yeah, we all make judgements based on people's appearances and actions (sometimes wrongly so), but that should remain it in DayZ - if some guy looks hostile, you should know not to trust him. Granted, yes, people can deceive, but that's all a part of the fun and realism of the game. You should have to use your own judgement, not some feature that may not even be giving you useful information.

 

And I honestly fail to see how this will alleviate KoS anyway, because typically rampant KoS'ers will kill you anyway. You won't get a chance to interact with them, because they'll just shoot you. Honestly this is only making it worse for more interesting ways of hostile playstyles to come about, not actually deathmatchers or KoS'ers.

 

I'm going to try to break down your post a bit:

 

• I am aware an emotion system would be fallible. It wouldn't need to be perfect. It would just need to convey a basic set of emotions based on player actions. The point is not to decrease KoS but for people to realize that their in-game behavior might have consequences at some point. KoS is not a problem until it becomes the core and focus of the game. If I wanted to play a deathmatch virtually every other games does it better than DayZ.
• Common goals will not encourage interaction between randoms. I feel this is the thing I am missing most in DayZ. It is also something that I experience much more often in games like A3: Breaking Point, perhaps due to their party system.
• Lack of bullets or weapons will not stop KoS or even make it more infrequent. I wish people would stop saying this because there is no evidence (emperical or otherwise) to suggest this is the case. Based on what we have seen in other games in the genre what you are implying is simply not true. Plus, shooting people is fun. I wouldn't play this game without guns and bullets. The guns aren't the problem, lack of player accountability is.
• A persistent emotion framework would allow for people to get a basic inclination as to a player's proclivities. "Is this player a murderer" rather than "is a player good". "Does this player generally help others" rather than "can I trust this player". "Has this player seen some shit" rather than "is this player a liar". It wouldn't need to be perfect. It would just need to cause players to think about their actions ahead of time. I would, personally, rather not KoS another player if I knew it would make me seem like a rampant murderer. I mean, I would still kill if I needed to but, right now, I will just shoot someone in the head for fun. I can do this because no one will ever know.

The best solution to all of this is to simply make a global bounty system possible via in-game items but I fear this would require some kind of global economy. But letting players decide who are the assholes and the heroes would be awesome.

Sorry for any typos.

[General Zod 1118]

This is exactly what I am saying we need for self-policing. There is no way to track (or report) bad players. People can just jump from server to server to continue their deathmatch. People can put on the clothes of someone else or just change their avatar. There is a complete lack of player accountability and there is no way (even on private servers) for people to report or punish egregious behavior.

This is, I believe, by design. It is not fun, in my opinion. Nothing about the current DayZ deathmatch is fun. It wasn't fun in Mod either.

Well there is no way to add reporting system without identification system, and since in game name and appearance can be changes at whim, that would have to be steam based, which will not happen. I don't want people in game be able to get my steam account details. 

Edited November 5, 2014 by General Zod

[scriptfactory 620]

Well there is no way to add reporting system without identification system, and since in game name and appearance can be changes at whim, that would have to be steam based, which will not happen. I don't want people in game be able to get my steam account details. 

 

Every player in A3 has a unique identifier. I assume it is the same for SA. Steam IDs are not necessary.

But I agree. An identification system is required for ANY of this reporting stuff to work.

[killerbyte12 29]

Every player in A3 has a unique identifier. I assume it is the same for SA. Steam IDs are not necessary.

But I agree. An identification system is required for ANY of this reporting stuff to work.

 

I heard somewhere that our in game GUID's are just a hash of our steam id's and a few added letters. So if that is true the id system already works off our steam accounts

[Chaingunfighter 917]

This is exactly what I am saying we need for self-policing. There is no way to track (or report) bad players. People can just jump from server to server to continue their deathmatch. People can put on the clothes of someone else or just change their avatar. There is a complete lack of player accountability and there is no way (even on private servers) for people to report or punish egregious behavior.

This is, I believe, by design. It is not fun, in my opinion. Nothing about the current DayZ deathmatch is fun. It wasn't fun in Mod either.

 

 

 

I'm going to try to break down your post a bit:

 

• I am aware an emotion system would be fallible. It wouldn't need to be perfect. It would just need to convey a basic set of emotions based on player actions. The point is not to decrease KoS but for people to realize that their in-game behavior might have consequences at some point. KoS is not a problem until it becomes the core and focus of the game. If I wanted to play a deathmatch virtually every other games does it better than DayZ.
• Common goals will not encourage interaction between randoms. I feel this is the thing I am missing most in DayZ. It is also something that I experience much more often in games like A3: Breaking Point, perhaps due to their party system.
• Lack of bullets or weapons will not stop KoS or even make it more infrequent. I wish people would stop saying this because there is no evidence (emperical or otherwise) to suggest this is the case. Based on what we have seen in other games in the genre what you are implying is simply not true. Plus, shooting people is fun. I wouldn't play this game without guns and bullets. The guns aren't the problem, lack of player accountability is.
• A persistent emotion framework would allow for people to get a basic inclination as to a player's proclivities. "Is this player a murderer" rather than "is a player good". "Does this player generally help others" rather than "can I trust this player". "Has this player seen some shit" rather than "is this player a liar". It wouldn't need to be perfect. It would just need to cause players to think about their actions ahead of time. I would, personally, rather not KoS another player if I knew it would make me seem like a rampant murderer. I mean, I would still kill if I needed to but, right now, I will just shoot someone in the head for fun. I can do this because no one will ever know.

• And what I'm saying in this regard is that an emotion system will simply not do the job well for the downsides it gives.
• We'll have to wait and see. But anyone you play DayZ with that aren't friends you've met elsewhere would've been "two randoms interacting" at some point. Increasing the number of possibilities will increase the chance of it happening.
• I've never once said it will stop it or even alleviate it, hence "Yeah, some people will still take the opportunity to..." In fact, I've argued against people who try and make the point that we should only find 1 bullet a year so you wouldn't use it to kill others. However, rarer ammunition would indeed decrease the amount of senseless deathmatching and player-hunting on the coasts/high value areas, because you are less able to do so, and it's a willed action. Most people that will kill anyone who runs into them will likely continue to do so, but you'll see far less of people sniping or taking out people who are far enough that they can be avoided. Even then, it makes the action of KoS more costly, so it's still a justified move.
• But it simply does not make sense. You can't tell that someone's "been through shit" or "killed a lot of people" simply by looking at them or being around them. It's much too far a break from reality. In real life post-apocalypse you'd be able to get away with murder far easier, when there's no law and many people have no one looking after them or keeping track of them. So it actually does make sense that people can get away with it, it's a lawless society. If people want to try and hunt down bandits & killers, then let them do that. But don't set up some system that does the work for them.