Keys for barricades?

[MountGreen 20]

The barricading system that will eventually be implemented into DayZ is a pretty complex topic, mostly because not much has been been decided on it yet, but I thought I'd throw this into the mix of ideas out there.

 

 

My idea is Keys.

 

Personally I'm not a huge fan of the idea that someone with a base full of supplies can die to a bandit, respawn on the coast, and leg it over to his fortress in about half an hour to become fully-geared again because the bandit that killed him just couldn't be arsed to spend the time (people are suggesting up to about 40mins) trying to break into his locked up base. Furthermore, the whole concept of leaving caches around the map you can use in multiple lives in many ways annoys me as in my mind it attacks one of the core fundamentals of dayZ - death means something, and every character is a new character. Suddenly respawning back on the coast isn't a huge deal if it takes you literally half an hour to get back to fully geared without any risk by just finding one of your hidden, locked bases.

 

So I came up with keys. I suggest that for every house you barricade/lock/whatever, you are given a key. This key exists in your inventory and gives only you the privilege of operating the door (meaning you can lock people either outside or even inside your base), and of course protecting your loot while your not playing. However, should another player get this key, and all the privileges it provides are passed to them. So if a bandit shoots you and takes your key from your body, he can now get into your base (provided he knows where it is).

 

The reason I like this idea is that it means death still has meaning and that locking up a house does not grant your gear almost guaranteed protection, your fate is still tied to that of your base as it would be in a real life scenario.

 

Now, I'm not saying that this should be put in the game, but I'm interested to hear what you guys think. Obviously there would have to be features like 'copy key' so that clan members can share a base and stuff like that, but do you think the idea has potential?

 

 

[Conrad_The_Comrade 577]

I love the concept of keys (I didn't read the whole passage, just a heads up) but another system (Before you say anything, or read on, note that this is will break immersion a little) would be the idea that when you die, you basically lose access to you're base, as if your doors would only magically open for you, and you only, but when you die, it registers you as someone else, and you would have to break in like any other bandit. Also, when you're alive, you can give "permissions" to your "friends/group" so they don't need to nag at you every time to get inside. However, these people can easily rob you too.

[Destructo_Brat 45]

Id suggest. one off bases..

This will solve many issues..

 

IF you make a home base and secure it with.. (For example) fences.

There is nothing to stop you replicating this in numerous places. And making it easy for a bandit to have lots of gearups everywhere..

But

With Only ONE base you would have to chose wisely.

DONT allow bases along the coastline. Or coastal towns.

So for example you cant make the tower in nova your base or the docks. Or building sites just offshore..

And

To stop bandits killing you and looting you and taking your key/base. Because some people group to survive. so it would be unfair if an idiot got a key and looted a whole group.

And taking your key/base

Make the key secured to an account. Or Clan... So it cannot be looted from a corpse.

 

Or give each individual a code or key that can only be used on ONE base.

That would allow them to move bases.

But not have multiples. Sure it needs more thought but...........

 

This way you would have to. A. Cooperate and secure a base.

Or B. Make a smaller one which would suit some lone wolves.. Me included...

Forcing us to return to base for basics.

 

I would also suggest making weapons and clothes NON lootable.

This would mean Killing someone who stops to eat so you can gearup and go on killing. A No No.

Ofc the victims food and med supplies would be fair game .

That goes without saying. It would be both unfair and a logistical nightmare to make ALL food or meds Non lootable.

But it would make killing a guy hunting for food pointless.

But make a well geared guy looking for trouble.. Fair game..

 

It would also stop dipsticks killing  JUST to grab a guys hard earned weapons. So he can go back to killing. 

 

Sense..?

Or Nonesense..?

[Bororm 1156]

The point of a base is that you can go back to it after you die.  Otherwise, why are you stockpiling things?

 

That said, I'm not opposed to keys as long as you can still break into doors normally as well.  It's just quicker/easier access.  With persistence, you'd be able to hide your key(s) as well.

I think being able to copy keys should be implemented if keys are a thing though.  Not only so you can have spares, but for group play purposes.  If one's lost, your base is still potentially fucked (granted your attacker knows where your base even is) but you're not just shit out of luck of getting back in your own base either.

 

Destroying a door should destroy the lock, requiring all new keys.

[MountGreen 20]

I love the concept of keys (I didn't read the whole passage, just a heads up) but another system (Before you say anything, or read on, note that this is will break immersion a little) would be the idea that when you die, you basically lose access to you're base, as if your doors would only magically open for you, and you only, but when you die, it registers you as someone else, and you would have to break in like any other bandit. Also, when you're alive, you can give "permissions" to your "friends/group" so they don't need to nag at you every time to get inside. However, these people can easily rob you too.

 

Yeah that's essentially what I was thinking and keys were the only kind of realistic way I could think of doing it, with the copying and sharing of keys being the same as your permissions idea. It makes it more fun because you actually have to work for your loot when you die. Hahaha yeah giving permissions to someone who then robbed you blind would be pretty hilarious.

 

I wonder if someone would barricade up one of the pubs but only let fresh spawns in to get gear. "The bambi arms" as it were...

[MountGreen 20]

The point of a base is that you can go back to it after you die.  Otherwise, why are you stockpiling things?

 

That said, I'm not opposed to keys as long as you can still break into doors normally as well.  It's just quicker/easier access.  With persistence, you'd be able to hide your key(s) as well.

I think being able to copy keys should be implemented if keys are a thing though.  Not only so you can have spares, but for group play purposes.  If one's lost, your base is still potentially fucked (granted your attacker knows where your base even is) but you're not just shit out of luck of getting back in your own base either.

 

Destroying a door should destroy the lock, requiring all new keys.

Hmm, didn't think about the possibility of spare keys... Maybe people would start storing keys near they coast and then collecting them when the spawn. Perhaps we need a 'hide-under-flowerpot' feature..

 

Agree with pretty much everything you say, keeping track of your keys would be obviously important, but they aren't the only way to get in - a house could still be broken into.

[MountGreen 20]

Id suggest. one off bases..

This will solve many issues..

 

IF you make a home base and secure it with.. (For example) fences.

There is nothing to stop you replicating this in numerous places. And making it easy for a bandit to have lots of gearups everywhere..

But

With Only ONE base you would have to chose wisely.

DONT allow bases along the coastline. Or coastal towns.

So for example you cant make the tower in nova your base or the docks. Or building sites just offshore..

And

To stop bandits killing you and looting you and taking your key/base. Because some people group to survive. so it would be unfair if an idiot got a key and looted a whole group.

And taking your key/base

Make the key secured to an account. Or Clan... So it cannot be looted from a corpse.

 

Or give each individual a code or key that can only be used on ONE base.

That would allow them to move bases.

But not have multiples. Sure it needs more thought but...........

 

This way you would have to. A. Cooperate and secure a base.

Or B. Make a smaller one which would suit some lone wolves.. Me included...

Forcing us to return to base for basics.

 

I would also suggest making weapons and clothes NON lootable.

This would mean Killing someone who stops to eat so you can gearup and go on killing. A No No.

Ofc the victims food and med supplies would be fair game .

That goes without saying. It would be both unfair and a logistical nightmare to make ALL food or meds Non lootable.

But it would make killing a guy hunting for food pointless.

But make a well geared guy looking for trouble.. Fair game..

 

It would also stop dipsticks killing  JUST to grab a guys hard earned weapons. So he can go back to killing. 

 

Sense..?

Or Nonesense..?

 I think weapons and clothes should stay lootable imo, because if you went through all the trouble of taking down a well armed bandit with your 22 sporter you deserve the reward. I realise this would mean people would still KOS/ bandit you for your gun but I feel that's how the game is meant to be. In a post-apocalyptic wasteland, if you have an advantage someone else wants to take it from you. 

 

The one base thing is a good idea though, stops someone locking up all the house in cherno for example,. which would be a huge pain in the ass.

[kimmaz 63]

I like the idea of combination locks is just as good.

 

-What if you got base on a different server than you was killed on? the bandit would have no chance of using the key, and you would have to change the lock on your base.

-Its way easier to share the base with friends, simply give them the code. but I guess its possible to copy the key and give it to friends.

-people can still destroy the door and replace the lock if they want to steal your base in both cases.

 

The only difference is that its not possible to share the key with friends, and if you die you would loose access to the base until you replaced the lock.. but I guess both solutions are possible to use. They could add both options if they wanted. If friends have the key, they could just make a new copy for you to have.

[Dagwood 680]

Keys need to have the server that they belong on "marked" on them somehow. Otherwise we'll be collecting keys for hidden bases on random servers we'll never find.

If you kill an uber geared out guy with a clan name, it would be cool to have the name of his home server marked on his keys that you loot from his corpse. This way you could join that server and start snooping around.

[CANUCKinNZ 108]

Yeah that's essentially what I was thinking and keys were the only kind of realistic way I could think of doing it, with the copying and sharing of keys being the same as your permissions idea. It makes it more fun because you actually have to work for your loot when you die. Hahaha yeah giving permissions to someone who then robbed you blind would be pretty hilarious.

 

I wonder if someone would barricade up one of the pubs but only let fresh spawns in to get gear. "The bambi arms" as it were...

I think that keys aren't the only way though. What about a 4 digit code? You could give it to your friends if you want too instead of copying keys. That's how it's done in Rust last time I checked.

Or what about once you make a code it appears on a slip of paper in your inventory. You could hide it near your base to use as leverage for trading or once you die a player knows it but still has to find your base?

[MountGreen 20]

Maybe there could be key locks and combination locks, with combination locks obviously being superior but harder to find?

 

My problem with combinations is it brings back the whole 'oh-no-I-died-oh-well-ill-just-get-into-my-costal-base-and-instantly-gear-up' problem (well its a problem to me anyway, I feel it negates the whole point of permadeath)

[robophant 102]

Imho bases are overestimated and kind of a game breaker - Look at Overpoch nowadys: Everybody got a bigass base and turns into some kind of loot-goblin.

 

My idea is to have hidden (not lockable) places where u can hide a crate or a briefcase or whatever. For that, all you need is a hole in the ground which suits the need for camoflage since there really is no way to camoflage stuff if vegetation does not render at a certain distance.

 

Just dig!

Edited October 3, 2014 by robophant

[DocWolf 146]

The point of a base is that you can go back to it after you die.  Otherwise, why are you stockpiling things?

 

That said, I'm not opposed to keys as long as you can still break into doors normally as well.  It's just quicker/easier access.  With persistence, you'd be able to hide your key(s) as well.

I think being able to copy keys should be implemented if keys are a thing though.  Not only so you can have spares, but for group play purposes.  If one's lost, your base is still potentially fucked (granted your attacker knows where your base even is) but you're not just shit out of luck of getting back in your own base either.

 

Destroying a door should destroy the lock, requiring all new keys.

 

 

The idea of going back to your base to resupply after death is something that comes directly from the mod, and it's pretty silly. The following step is allowing completely out-of-place fortresses like Epoch, and then everything goes downhill becoming a military simulator with zombies.

 

You have a "base" because you stockpile things that are useful to your character when it's still alive. After death, it's another charachter and shouldn't be allowed to run back to the base of the previous one and resupply freely. Thanks to God the developers are working only on tents (small, mobile bases open to raiding) and boarded/fortified buildings (fixed bases open to raiding). If I kill a charachter with a base or if I stumble on the unguarded base of a charachter, I fully expect to be able to raid it with time and the right tools...tents should be easy, you just open them and loot. Maybe even take them away. Boarded houses should be harder, but not impossible with axes/crowbars for doors and windows and maybe pliers for fences.

[DemonGroover 8836]

Bases and caches are never fully secure and i hope any new system never allows gear to be 100% safe.

 

If something is locked the least i should be able to do is blow the whole thing up in anger with a well placed satchel charge.

[Bororm 1156]

The idea of going back to your base to resupply after death is something that comes directly from the mod, and it's pretty silly. The following step is allowing completely out-of-place fortresses like Epoch, and then everything goes downhill becoming a military simulator with zombies.

 

You have a "base" because you stockpile things that are useful to your character when it's still alive. After death, it's another charachter and shouldn't be allowed to run back to the base of the previous one and resupply freely. Thanks to God the developers are working only on tents (small, mobile bases open to raiding) and boarded/fortified buildings (fixed bases open to raiding). If I kill a charachter with a base or if I stumble on the unguarded base of a charachter, I fully expect to be able to raid it with time and the right tools...tents should be easy, you just open them and loot. Maybe even take them away. Boarded houses should be harder, but not impossible with axes/crowbars for doors and windows and maybe pliers for fences.

 

It's not a new character, it's the same one.  Your character isn't deleted, you just respawn.  Same name, same appearance.  People need to get over the idea of "perma death" because it doesn't exist in this game.

 

Why do I need to stockpile supplies while I'm still alive when I can carry everything I need on my person, or just scavenge as I go?

[Karmaterror 982]

Let us build as many as we want, let us run back and use them after death....but (as groover says) make them so anyone can get in provided they have the correct tools.

 

You board up the windows.....Anything like an axe or machete can break through. In this example an axe would  do the job a lot quicker. But both would take time.

 

After coming back and finding all your stuff gone,,,,,

 

You brick up the windows....Anyone with a sledgehammer or pickaxe can gain entry, quicker with sledge than pick

 

Maybe you build a door and lock it.....depending on the door type there could  be different options...

 

Locked wooden door, sledge, axe, pickaxe....pretty easy to get through.

 

Re-Enforced wooden door.....only a sledge will get through

 

Steel door....Only picking the lock or ambushing the player as he exits for the key

 

So im for keys, just implemented in a realistic way. A locked door isn't too much of an issue when property damage and accountability are thrown out the window :)

 

PS to all the guys holding up epoch. Mods like that spoon feed weapons then give invincible bases to keep them in. DAYZ did not do that....anything you built could be destroyed and raided freely by other players.

[Xbow 362]

Let us build as many as we want, let us run back and use them after death....but (as groover says) make them so anyone can get in provided they have the correct tools.

 

You board up the windows.....Anything like an axe or machete can break through. In this example an axe would  do the job a lot quicker. But both would take time.

 

After coming back and finding all your stuff gone,,,,,

 

You brick up the windows....Anyone with a sledgehammer or pickaxe can gain entry, quicker with sledge than pick

 

Maybe you build a door and lock it.....depending on the door type there could  be different options...

 

Locked wooden door, sledge, axe, pickaxe....pretty easy to get through.

 

Re-Enforced wooden door.....only a sledge will get through

 

Steel door....Only picking the lock or ambushing the player as he exits for the key

 

So im for keys, just implemented in a realistic way. A locked door isn't too much of an issue when property damage and accountability are thrown out the window :)

 

PS to all the guys holding up epoch. Mods like that spoon feed weapons then give invincible bases to keep them in. DAYZ did not do that....anything you built could be destroyed and raided freely by other players.

For doors a grenade is a wonderful key. For me the bottom line is that anyone  that thinks their little club house is secure or should be is delusional. You know I would be happy with the ability to dig a hole and cache extra gear and supplies in it and camouflage it when I leave and have a reasonable expectation that it wont be discovered and looted.  

Edited October 4, 2014 by Xbow

[agentstaple 29]

I agree with karmaterror's idea on how bases should work. The only addition I would make are booby traps, these could be things like bear traps around the house, possibly even mines/tripmines. Or rigged guns attached to wires.

 

I also think a detterant to smashing on a door with a sledgehammer will be zombies (in the finished game, not as they are now) there should be more of them and they should have some way to respawn (or just a fuck tonne of them to begin with, 50 in a small town). So if you wanna smash that door down, you better have two or three guys ready to fend of the horde.

 

 

As for caches,

 

Large cahces would require a toolbox, you could get different size boxes, ones large enough to fit rifles would be very rare and heavy (imagine a military foot locker, a little smaller than that) You would most likey need a vehicle to transport these long distances, smaller toolboxes would fit pistols (maybe a sawn off), food, ammo, a knife, a map, those kind of things (not much of it) and would be rare. You would bury a toolbox in the ground and leave some form of marking or maybe you could even mark your map where they are, once you've made the cache you could activate it and select "mark map" or something for that. Caches could be dug up and reused.

 

These tool boxes would require a key to open. If you didn't have a key and wanted to open one you would destroy the tool box (and so the cache) in the process of opening it.

 

So yes you would be able to get items straight away after death, but preparing for it would be very difficult and you wouldn't be able to save much stuff. (the amount you could save would be proportionate to the amount of time you stayed alive before, and you still wouldn't be able to store high end weapons like rifles unless you managed to get a large cache.

 

And the more protection you put on your house the harder you make getting into it for yourself. If I'm making a house I am gonna make it so that a fresh spawn cant get in. The best way to raid a house would be with a squad. If you where doing it solo you would want to do it with lockpicks (which should be rare) and the risk would still be high cause if you get your leg caught in a bear trap your gonna be immobilized and probably scream and all the zombies in a 50m+ radius are gonna hear you.

[liquidcactus 719]

Hopefully we see lockable doors/houses before barricading... and maybe if the player with said key hasnt been to his location in say 5 days it resets and the key dissappears

[DocWolf 146]

It's not a new character, it's the same one.  Your character isn't deleted, you just respawn.  Same name, same appearance.  People need to get over the idea of "perma death" because it doesn't exist in this game.

 

Why do I need to stockpile supplies while I'm still alive when I can carry everything I need on my person, or just scavenge as I go?

 

Permadeath is a feature the developers themselves have put in DayZ, and they announced it even before DayZ hit playable alpha a year ago just to make things clear with the playerbase. The name you see on the screen is your DayZ handle, not the name of the character. And you can carry around everything you need NOW, in an alpha version of the game...in the future there will be a a weight/stamina management systems, exactly like now we have a hunger/thirst and temperature management systems. You will not be able to go around 24/7 with all your supplies in a backpack.

 

Do you even playtest this game, or at least read the news about it?

Edited October 5, 2014 by DocWolf

[MountGreen 20]

I agree with karmaterror's idea on how bases should work. The only addition I would make are booby traps, these could be things like bear traps around the house, possibly even mines/tripmines. Or rigged guns attached to wires.

 

I also think a detterant to smashing on a door with a sledgehammer will be zombies (in the finished game, not as they are now) there should be more of them and they should have some way to respawn (or just a fuck tonne of them to begin with, 50 in a small town). So if you wanna smash that door down, you better have two or three guys ready to fend of the horde.

 

 

As for caches,

 

Large cahces would require a toolbox, you could get different size boxes, ones large enough to fit rifles would be very rare and heavy (imagine a military foot locker, a little smaller than that) You would most likey need a vehicle to transport these long distances, smaller toolboxes would fit pistols (maybe a sawn off), food, ammo, a knife, a map, those kind of things (not much of it) and would be rare. You would bury a toolbox in the ground and leave some form of marking or maybe you could even mark your map where they are, once you've made the cache you could activate it and select "mark map" or something for that. Caches could be dug up and reused.

 

These tool boxes would require a key to open. If you didn't have a key and wanted to open one you would destroy the tool box (and so the cache) in the process of opening it.

 

So yes you would be able to get items straight away after death, but preparing for it would be very difficult and you wouldn't be able to save much stuff. (the amount you could save would be proportionate to the amount of time you stayed alive before, and you still wouldn't be able to store high end weapons like rifles unless you managed to get a large cache.

 

And the more protection you put on your house the harder you make getting into it for yourself. If I'm making a house I am gonna make it so that a fresh spawn cant get in. The best way to raid a house would be with a squad. If you where doing it solo you would want to do it with lockpicks (which should be rare) and the risk would still be high cause if you get your leg caught in a bear trap your gonna be immobilized and probably scream and all the zombies in a 50m+ radius are gonna hear you.

Daym bear traps would be cool.

 

With respect to your zombie idea, we could have it that any base increases the local zombie spawn rate? I guess this could be explained by them  being drawn to the presence of humans or something? Then robbing a house would require you to effectively fight off zeds at the same time as breaking in/picking the door rather than just 'smash-and-grab'

 

Yeah as far as I'm concerned any base should be lootable given time and equipment.

[agentstaple 29]

Daym bear traps would be cool.

 

With respect to your zombie idea, we could have it that any base increases the local zombie spawn rate? I guess this could be explained by them  being drawn to the presence of humans or something? Then robbing a house would require you to effectively fight off zeds at the same time as breaking in/picking the door rather than just 'smash-and-grab'

 

Yeah as far as I'm concerned any base should be lootable given time and equipment.

Yeah that should work well. Either more zombies near player houses or just faster respawns would solve it. Maybe there should be more zombies in larger cities too. So if I build my fort in Cherno the amount of zombies near my house would be higher than say, kamenka. This is a downside for me because I have to deal with them all the time getting to and from my house, but an upside because it makes it harder to be raided.

 

Lets face it, there is gonna be no hiding your barricade in this. We need other tactics to protect it.

[Bororm 1156]

Permadeath is a feature the developers themselves have put in DayZ, and they announced it even before DayZ hit playable alpha a year ago just to make things clear with the playerbase. The name you see on the screen is your DayZ handle, not the name of the character. And you can carry around everything you need NOW, in an alpha version of the game...in the future there will be a a weight/stamina management systems, exactly like now we have a hunger/thirst and temperature management systems. You will not be able to go around 24/7 with all your supplies in a backpack.

 

Do you even playtest this game, or at least read the news about it?

 

I play the game, and there's no permadeath.

 

Just because they like to tout it as permadeath doesn't make it so.  Also, source on the name not being your character's and just your handle?  Because when I actually play the game, and I check some one's pulse it tells me XXXXX's pulse, implying it is the character.

 

It's great that Rocket wants to claim it's permadeath, but until they actually make it permanent in a meaningful way, it's simply not the case right now.  There is absolutely no difference from dying/respawning in this game than there is in any other game where you lose all your loot.  There's no difference between DayZ and say battlefield when it comes to death, and no ones running around claiming battlefield has permadeath.  What they should call it is full loot death or something.

 

Maybe one day they'll add skills and character development and dying will mean something more, but I bet you still won't have to remake your character so even in that case it likely won't be permadeath but instead skill/stat loss.

[agentstaple 29]

I play the game, and there's no permadeath.

 

Just because they like to tout it as permadeath doesn't make it so.  Also, source on the name not being your character's and just your handle?  Because when I actually play the game, and I check some one's pulse it tells me XXXXX's pulse, implying it is the character.

 

It's great that Rocket wants to claim it's permadeath, but until they actually make it permanent in a meaningful way, it's simply not the case right now.  There is absolutely no difference from dying/respawning in this game than there is in any other game where you lose all your loot.  There's no difference between DayZ and say battlefield when it comes to death, and no ones running around claiming battlefield has permadeath.  What they should call it is full loot death or something.

 

Maybe one day they'll add skills and character development and dying will mean something more, but I bet you still won't have to remake your character so even in that case it likely won't be permadeath but instead skill/stat loss.

 

>It's not a new character, it's the same one.  Your character isn't deleted, you just respawn.  Same name, same appearance.  People need to get over the idea of "perma death" because it doesn't exist in this game.

 

Just because it doesn't have much effect in the game right now doesn't mean that people should ignore it. It will be made stronger as the game goes on. Saying "it's not in the game" is not a valid reason to completely ignore it and add stuff that take away from it because it IS part of the game.

 

"your character isn't deleted, you just respawn". That's kind of like arguing semantics. just because that's how the game makes it seem doesn't mean that's how it's intended.

[Bororm 1156]

>It's not a new character, it's the same one.  Your character isn't deleted, you just respawn.  Same name, same appearance.  People need to get over the idea of "perma death" because it doesn't exist in this game.

 

Just because it doesn't have much effect in the game right now doesn't mean that people should ignore it. It will be made stronger as the game goes on. Saying "it's not in the game" is not a valid reason to completely ignore it and add stuff that take away from it because it IS part of the game.

 

"your character isn't deleted, you just respawn". That's kind of like arguing semantics. just because that's how the game makes it seem doesn't mean that's how it's intended.

 

If it's not intended, they need to change it.  Because there are games with actual permadeath, and there are games the same as DayZ that don't claim permadeath, because it simply isn't.

 

Nothing about when you die is permanent except your loss of gear.  You are the exact same character, and the screen even says "respawn."  You can't "respawn" if your character is permanently dead.

 

An example of a game with permadeath is something like hardcore mode on diablo, where your character is straight up deleted when you die.

 

If they ever actually decide to add permadeath, that's great, but I'm sorry Rocket is simply wrong as it stands.