Temperature effects are broken since hotfix

[ColonelBurton 145]

Since the original posting was closed "due to derailment", I am opening a new one. In the case of "derailment" I request mods to clean the topic, not close it!

 

 

 

It ISN'T sub-zero in Chernarus. 

 

Most likely, it is mid-October in-game (based upon the colors of the foliage, availability of crops, etc). Now, Chernarus and where I live (new England) are on a similar latitude, with similar environments (ocean right next door to moderate temp). Want to know what I wear during the day in October? 

 

A long-sleeved shirt (think the "Green Checked Shirt" in-game) a pair of pants, and a sweatshirt if it is particularly windy. And even this can get a little warm if the sun is directly on me.

 

Now, I enjoy the fact that there is hypothermia in-game, but the level of clothing you need to wear is pretty ridiculous. Again, similar environments and temperatures to wear I live, and I don't have to wear down-insulated jackets until JANUARY, AKA deep into winter. Until then, I can rather comfortably get by with wool coats, gloves, scarves and a hat, even if there is snow on the ground.

 

I am of the personal opinion that your "degree of healthiness" should have a severe effect on how warm you are, and how fast the weather affects you. IRL, if you are well-fed, rested and hydrated, it is relatively easy to maintain homeostasis (AKA wear a sweatshirt and a hat). If you are tired, sick, hungry, etc, it becomes progressively more difficult to maintain homeostasis ( AKA need more and more clothing)

 

But this current level of "go outside and die" is rather stupid.

 

1st off, Chernarus is obviously somewhat around zero, since I can always see my breath. Which means we are clearly below body temperature. Still doesn't explain dying with 15 minutes.

 

2ndly, I would like to specify there are seemingly (in my opinion) two types of people in this forum. People that complain about game mechanics and wish to see improvement, and people who seem to be fine with everything the way it is and have nothing better to do but to talk down on (aka troll) people that criticise the game mechanics. From now on, I will simply ignore people that have nothing better to say than "IF THE GAME IS TOO HARD FOR YOU, PLAY CALL OF DUTY OR GO BACK TO SCHOOL".

 

3rd of all, here is the official bug report for the currently broken temperature mechanics. Please note how many people complain of freezing within minutes despite being fully clothed, even with winter clothes.

http://feedback.dayzgame.com/view.php?id=17333#bugnotes

 

 

[IIvIIozzie 31]

I played for a little bit tonight and got the cold status. I removed the cold with a fire but then switched servers and got it again. With that said I do have several pieces of ruined clothing.I played for an hour or two with that status on light orange and it hasn't changed to the darker red yet to indicate hypothermia is coming up. As far as I can tell it is working correctly for me.

[Bad Company 140]

Same here. Full TTsKO-set with good bots, a helmet and everything, daytime server and running in the sun - still a fucking block of ice.

[Rammur 59]

Ive yet to die in the said 15 minutes ive died too cold a few times but not that fast  and normally from my own stupidity run indoors make sure your not damp get gloves boots etc etc normally a wool coat will warm you enough where you wont get the freezing status stay like in the yellow.Find matches and an axe as soon as possible and some bandages for a fire kit.If you cant find a shirt to rip into bandage for the kit find a book they are allll over you can rip the paper out of the book use it instead of bandages.

 

Weather is set up this way so people cant simply race up north it gives us a bit of a inccentive to actually play the game how its meant to be played as in looting all the building people tend to just pass when they are tunnel visioning it up too the military looting zones and rain coats are almost always spawning up in the long barns btw find one they are life savers.

Edited September 25, 2014 by Rammur

[Whyherro123 2283]

Since the original posting was closed "due to derailment", I am opening a new one. In the case of "derailment" I request mods to clean the topic, not close it!

 

 

1st off, Chernarus is obviously somewhat around zero, since I can always see my breath. Which means we are clearly below body temperature. Still doesn't explain dying with 15 minutes.

 

2ndly, I would like to specify there are seemingly (in my opinion) two types of people in this forum. People that complain about game mechanics and wish to see improvement, and people who seem to be fine with everything the way it is and have nothing better to do but to talk down on (aka troll) people that criticise the game mechanics. From now on, I will simply ignore people that have nothing better to say than "IF THE GAME IS TOO HARD FOR YOU, PLAY CALL OF DUTY OR GO BACK TO SCHOOL".

 

3rd of all, here is the official bug report for the currently broken temperature mechanics. Please note how many people complain of freezing within minutes despite being fully clothed, even with winter clothes.

http://feedback.dayzgame.com/view.php?id=17333#bugnotes

1) Not really. It doesn't have to be sub-zero for your breath to fog.  IRL, I have had my breath fog during the middle of the summer! It was early in the morning, when the air temperature was a relatively-cold 57 degrees. In-game, my breath doesn't fog "all of the time", only when I am in shadow, high up, or approaching nightfall. This makes sense, as it really doesn't take all that much of a temperature difference to make your breath condensate/freeze 

 

If it was sub-zero during the daytime in Chernarus, then the plant species currently growing there would not be. Also, the small streams and ponds seen in Chernarus would be frozen over, as none of them are deep enough to support any real temperature stratification [There is an actual scientific difference between "ponds" and "lakes". Bio/Ecology major aside...) Also, the algae (phytoplankton) that is growing in these water bodies (which is why they are green) is still alive, indicating both an ample supply of sunlight and relatively warm water (and therefore air temps, by proxy).Very simple. 

I continue to stand by my point that it is currently mid-Autumn in Day Z standalone, and not really all that much will change my mind, outside of Word-Of-God. All of the available evidence (tree species/vegetation, crops, weather, geological conditions, etc) supports the fact that it is late October, early November at the latest. 

 

-AHEM-

 

With that out of the way, and with the above point in mind, currently IMHO, it is too damn cold in Chernarus, even with the bug. 

 

As I said in the last thread, I live in an environment that is extreme similar to that of Cherarus ( very close latitude, similar ecological conditions, similar weather patterns, etc). I can go outside in mid-November in New England in a sweatshirt and slacks (Mid-October is still shorts-worthy), while in Chernarus a sweatshirt is apparently made of broken dreams and sadness.

 

Notice: I am not saying it shouldn't be cold! All I am saying is to.....tone it down a bit? A sweatshirt and pants should see you through a sunny day fine, but, when you go into the shade of a mountain, or the sun begins to set, you will probably want to pull out that jacket and cap. If it rains, pull on a raincoat (IRL, I only wear raincoats when it rains, as they are too hot otherwise, being non-breathable. There are raincoats made of breathable fabrics, but they are expensive as all hell).

 

Finally, walking at a brisk pace/ jogging should definitely have an effect on body temp. You undergo metabolic processing for a reason, after all, one of which is maintaining body temp. If you walk in-game wearing a sweatshirt, all is well and good, but start to jog (or heaven forbid, sprint) and you will start to overheat ( NOTE; This was why sweatshirts were invented [maybe], for use by athletes to "warm up" [deliberately overheat the muscles] before an activity) It should be more pronounced with heavier clothing that breathes less. 

 

....

 

In conjunction with that above point, metabolism should definitely play a major role in survival, especially with regards to temperature. Spend all day running around, sweating up a storm? You now require more food. Spend all day lazing by the fire at base? You can afford to eat less. Sick? Cold? Scared? Need more food.

Edited September 25, 2014 by Whyherro123

[ColonelBurton 145]

Sensible points, especially about metabolism

 

 

Whyherro123: Can we please agree to speak in °Celsius. It is much simpler to define "sub zero" as "below freezing" that way ^^

I never really got the point of the Fahrenheit scala to be honest. Celsius is so much simpler to think in. 0° is freezing 100° is boiling. Body temp is roughly 37°

 

I think it speaks for itself that this can not be the way the game is intended to be.

 

Apart from that, however, before one actually implements a 100% realistic temperature effect on physiology, I feel there is also a need to change some things around that tie in with this topic:

 

1.) The inventory system to enable carrying more small items

At this point, I am carrying items inside pants inside tac-vests inside tac-vests to enable actually carrying some gear around.  => unrealistic

The root of this problem though, is that a box of matches or a handcuff-key use up as much space as the reference item for one slot: a can of beans or soda => unrealistic

 

The solution is simply to quarter the slots and re-arrange the item sizes, a can of beans being 4x4 and a box of matches or a knife 1x2 and a handcuff key being 1x1. The more complex tetris effect that comes along with this is realistic enough. Since the more items you carry, the harder it is to arrange your gear.

 

2.) Finding wood

At this point, you chop down a tree and get firewood => super unrealistic

Freshly cut trees need to be chopped to blocks then dry for one summer before they can be put on a fire. Otherwise they'll hardly ignite, and if they do burn they do nothing but crackle and explode.

There is always plenty of "firewood" to be found in a dry forest. And even on rainy days, you will find somewhat dry wood close to trees or behind large rocks or steep slopes.

No need to mention that the fact that using your axe a few times shouldn't "damage" it right away. I have a wooden splitting axe in my backyard shed that I have probably been using for roughly 60-70 hours of splitting wood. The handle recently started getting wobbly and I needed to fix the head with a new wooden wedge. Simple as that.

 

3.) Cooking food needs to make sense

Speaking of metabolism, warm food will help out far more than a cold can of beans. Eating cold beans will simply force the body to consume more energy in order to warm up the food to body temperature, meaning you lose out on a lot of energy. It should be possible to warm up a can of beans directly on a fireplace, but getting back to point 1.) a small frying pan should also not take up as much space as 4 cans of beans either. Not to mention that this type of thing shouldn't be as rare to find as it is in a post-apocalyptic scenario.

Edited September 25, 2014 by ColonelBurton

[Whyherro123 2283]

Ive yet to die in the said 15 minutes ive died too cold a few times but not that fast  and normally from my own stupidity run indoors make sure your not damp get gloves boots etc etc normally a wool coat will warm you enough where you wont get the freezing status stay like in the yellow.Find matches and an axe as soon as possible and some bandages for a fire kit.If you cant find a shirt to rip into bandage for the kit find a book they are allll over you can rip the paper out of the book use it instead of bandages.

 

Weather is set up this way so people cant simply race up north it gives us a bit of a inccentive to actually play the game how its meant to be played as in looting all the building people tend to just pass when they are tunnel visioning it up too the military looting zones and rain coats are almost always spawning up in the long barns btw find one they are life savers.

Rain coats realistically would not be the go-to gear to prevent hypothermia. The very reason they are effective at blocking rain would also be your doom.

 

Most rain coats are made of non-breathable materials (nylon, coated fabric, rubber, etc) This makes them good at shedding water, but also holds in the body's heat. Now, initially, you might think "Yeah, so? That is good!"

 

Not really. It will hold in the body's heat, but also makes you sweat. Sweat cools your body by evaporation, taking heat away from the skin (and, from the capillary blood vessels in the skin). This sweat will not be able to evaporate, and will instead sit on the skin, soaking into whatever other clothes you are wearing, taking away their  insulation qualtities ( clothing keeps you warm by trapping a layer of air near to your skin. This layer acts as a buffer against the colder air away from you)

 

I've actually had one of my students develop a pretty serious case of hypothermia in the summer , all because he didn't open his raingear enough to prompt the evaporation of built-up sweat. His buddy came running back to the base camp, saying his buddy was sitting on the side of the trail, shivering like mad and unable to walk any more back to camp. By the time I got to him, he had no idea where he was and was unable to use his hands. I took off his rainjacket (which was a PITA, with him shivering like that, besides being as unhelpful as possible) to find he was soaked to the skin in his own sweat. We got him back to actual summer camp, where he got a nice warm ambulance ride to the local hospital.

 

Hypothermia isn't just a "cold weather thing", ladies and gentlemen.

[CJFlint 357]

It was the hot fix. Tonight I lit 3 fires to stay warm. I collected a pretty good kit too. The last time I needed to get warm my fire axe broke. I had 3 green bars, everything was good. But my avatar was getting colder and colder. That was what killed me. I needed a new axe so I ran into town to get one then got into a bad fight and died. I think I would have not had to run into town if it wasn't for the reason of getting an axe, I would have survived much much longer. Had everything else I needed. Went out with a fight. Good!

 

Fire axes only have so many uses it seems to chop down trees.  Then they are ruined. It was in good cond when I got it...so I'm pretty sure thats what ruined it. Knocking trees down

 

Its harder after the hot fix.

 

The way it is now your going to get fucked over at some point. Geared or no geared. 

 

As far as staying warm goes no matter what you have to have a way of starting a fire. May a gas stove or and axe. Somehow. So maybe some alt ways like rubbing sticks. Something needs to give. Longevity is in staying warm is my new delema. I had full Gurka and the new mask. Plus gloves. Mil boots. Plenty of food and water. Honestly a good build from what I have done before. Away from fires I made it 5 minutes maybe 10 til I was cold. Running or no running my avatar drop in temp...so fires I needed prob once an hour. 

 

It was interesting for a while. 

Edited September 25, 2014 by CJFlint

[Whyherro123 2283]

Whyherro123: Can we please agree to speak in °Celsius. It is much simpler to define "sub zero" as "below freezing" that way ^^

I never really got the point of the Fahrenheit scala to be honest. Celsius is so much simpler to think in. 0° is freezing 100° is boiling. Body temp is roughly 37°

Oh, I thought you were referring to "sub-zero" in Fahrenheit, which would be ridiculous.

 

However, it being as cold/colder than 32 degrees F (0 degrees C) is still quite a stretch, at least during a sunny day. IMHO, it should be about 55 degrees F (12.7 C) during a sunny day, maybe 40-45 factoring in wind chill /shady environments (4.44-7.22 C). At night, it would possibly (probably, considering what it gets like around me) get down below 35-30 degrees F (0 degrees C)

[dirrly 70]

Notice: I am not saying it shouldn't be cold! All I am saying is to.....tone it down a bit? A sweatshirt and pants should see you through a sunny day fine,...

 

There's realism on one hand... the game how the devs want it on the other.

 

About realism you may be right with the things you point out (ponds and plants and so on)... but I personally don't appreciate realism over the game mechanics. I can live (and die, hehe) with the fact, that the temperature don't fit the environment. I think temperature should be a threat to your life. And to survive easily just with a sweatshirt and pants is the wrong way for the game, how it should be in my mind.

[ColonelBurton 145]

There's realism on one hand... the game how the devs want it on the other.

 

About realism you may be right with the things you point out (ponds and plants and so on)... but I personally don't appreciate realism over the game mechanics. I can live (and die, hehe) with the fact, that the temperature don't fit the environment. I think temperature should be a threat to your life. And to survive easily just with a sweatshirt and pants is the wrong way for the game, how it should be in my mind.

 

We're not talking about "surviving easily" we're talking about not dying within 15 minutes. Point taken?

[dirrly 70]

We're not talking about "surviving easily" we're talking about not dying within 15 minutes. Point taken?

 

Yeah, but that was not the main issue of my post, you know?

 

But to be honest: "A sweatshirt and pants should see you through a sunny day fine,..." = surviving (the temperature) easily because I have warm enough clothes.

Edited September 25, 2014 by dirrly

[Whyherro123 2283]

There's realism on one hand... the game how the devs want it on the other.

 

About realism you may be right with the things you point out (ponds and plants and so on)... but I personally don't appreciate realism over the game mechanics. I can live (and die, hehe) with the fact, that the temperature don't fit the environment. I think temperature should be a threat to your life. And to survive easily just with a sweatshirt and pants is the wrong way for the game, how it should be in my mind.

 

Note how you won't really be surviving all that easily if you look at the temperatures I suggested above. A sweatshirt during a sunny day is alright, so long as there isn't any wind. If you have been paying attention, Chernarus is apparently a pretty windy place, especially the loooonnnnggg open fields in western Chernarus, where most of the high-value military loot is located. Factoring in wind chill could bring the temp down to 40 degrees F (4.44 degrees C), which would mean that that sweatshirt by itself wouldn't cut it; a warm hat would be a must, as well as limiting outside exposure. It would be uncomfortable ( AKA I am slowly cooling down), but survivable  with a sweatshirt, cap, and gloves, but you should definitely be on the lookout for a warm jacket and have a fire in mind, especially if the sun is setting.

[CJFlint 357]

What was crazy is I went to 2 mil spawns no problem...same as normal. Collected my gear last couple days. Normally that can be challenging....that seemed the least of my worry's tonight. lol Fires! I need fire.....

 

I was weird I was three green bars the whole time norm I wouldn't even have been worried. Even the keeping warm part wasn't hard until my axe broke. I tried the stick and rags only....didn't work to ignite. Was like fuck! My axe is ruined.....My only option....go to a fire house lol I was not the only one thinking that in fact the place was loaded. I got into a died for an axe lol I did get one then died 5 minutes latter shooting.

 

For some reason my fire place kit would not ignite without a log added. I wonder if now that we have the temp. May we should be able to lite a smaller fire if we have too. Not have to chop a whole tree down. Or have a gas stove....if that even work yet. Does it?

 

You got about 15 min til you get cold after warming thats what I learned tonight well geared..you can make it a while cold but you only have so long....So tonight 3 fires in 3 hours of game play. I did cook some stakes at one of them so that was duel use. LOL...I guess.

Edited September 25, 2014 by CJFlint

[dirrly 70]

Note how you won't really be surviving all that easily if you look at the temperatures I suggested above. A sweatshirt during a sunny day is alright, so long as there isn't any wind. If you have been paying attention, Chernarus is apparently a pretty windy place, especially the loooonnnnggg open fields in western Chernarus, where most of the high-value military loot is located. Factoring in wind chill could bring the temp down to 40 degrees F (4.44 degrees C), which would mean that that sweatshirt by itself wouldn't cut it; a warm hat would be a must, as well as limiting outside exposure. It would be uncomfortable ( AKA I am slowly cooling down), but survivable  with a sweatshirt, cap, and gloves, but you should definitely be on the lookout for a warm jacket and have a fire in mind, especially if the sun is setting.

 

Don't get me wrong. I understand your suggestion. But I don't see the purpose of it. At the moment you have to keep looking for a jacket and fire on your mind right from the start. And I like it, that temperature is a threat to you life right from the start. It would be more realistic the way you say, I aggree. But also more survivable... aka more... sorry... easy.

 

For me it is fine the way it is with a cold temperature even if the temperature is not realistic and doesn't fit to the environment.

 

I think running should affect body temperature. And hyperthermia needs a rework, as I never had a problem with that until now.

[Feuerbart 14]

Yesterday:

 

Running - "I am slowly warming up"

 

Today:

Running - I'm freezing"

Took me 3 Axes to collect sticks and firewood, since they all were ruined within only 2 hits on a tree. How is that possible?

Was finally able to make a fire, sat down and waited.

Still: "I'm freezing"

Mechanics are broken IMO

[CJFlint 357]

Don't get me wrong. I understand your suggestion. But I don't see the purpose of it. At the moment you have to keep looking for a jacket and fire on your mind right from the start. And I like it, that temperature is a threat to you life right from the start. It would be more realistic the way you say, I aggree. But also more survivable... aka more... sorry... easy.

 

For me it is fine the way it is with a cold temperature even if the temperature is not realistic and doesn't fit to the environment.

 

I think running should affect body temperature. And hyperthermia needs a rework, as I never had a problem with that until now.

I had a Gurka suit...still got cold....the only jacket currently that may help is a down jacket....maybe wool too. I used fire to stay warm for say short periods of time. It a new delema we have to figure out.

 

I had Gurka pants and jacket. The new face mask. Mil boats and gloves. I got cold in 15 min....now this is after the hot fix today.  The hot fix increased the effects of weather. 

 

As far as civ down Jackets or Wool havn't tried those yet....but those are bad in rain. 

 

If they keep it this way.....we got some stuff to figure out.....trends will change for sure.

Edited September 25, 2014 by CJFlint

[dirrly 70]

I had a Gurka suit...still got cold....

 

Seems this is no feature, it's a bug. ^^

(look at the first post here in the thread or here: http://feedback.dayzgame.com/view.php?id=17333#bugnotes )

[Hrki 94]

Well i wear GORKA and if its raining, i am not damp, i can run arround 1h till i get wet

It doesent makes me cold or worn i think its always the same cause i got status i am slowly warming up and also i am slowly cooling off and when i watch my temp with meter i always got around 36 + -

I think perfect way to escape from nonsence of heating/cooling 

[CJFlint 357]

Seems this is no feature, it's a bug. ^^

(look at the first post here in the thread or here: http://feedback.dayzgame.com/view.php?id=17333#bugnotes )

The thing is even with this...its kind of survivable but axes also break after maybe 3 or 4 tree knocked down. Yes fire axes. 

 

When I went into it tonight I was confident. Even with the quick cooling. But then I was unable to lite fires. ....due to my axe breaking over a few uses on trees.

 

Your going to have to go into towns to seeks out new ways of starting fires at some point.....I was desperate tonight. I lost the ability to keep warm and was far from anything. I was forced to run to to what I thought was the most likely place to find a way. Desperation kills. I felt I did the best I could lol

 

Gurka currently keeps you dry....not warm. Not sure what does right now other then fire.

Edited September 25, 2014 by CJFlint

[chodeofwar 145]

Logged into a Hell in Handbasket, server time was 20:23, it was dark and raining.

 

I was fully geared from the previous version and I had a Gorka Jacket and pants, balaclava, wellies and gloves.

 

Standing in the rain I was cooling off.

 

Sprinting in the rain I was cooling off slowly

 

Standing inside I was cooling off.

 

Sprinting inside I was slowly cooling off and slowly warming up. (I was getting alternating messages) 

 

I have not tried lighting a fire but I ran around for an hour trying to find some matches\paper and did not get any status on my inventory screen other than hydrated energised healthy.

 

I am yet to test this on any other servers or at any other server time.

 

One thing I did find is that I could not put the down jacket in my backpack and I could not wear it (maybe this was because I had a vest on, or maybe that jacket in particular was bugged for some reason)

 

 

 

 

Took me 3 Axes to collect sticks and firewood, since they all were ruined within only 2 hits on a tree. How is that possible?

 

 

You can look at the forest floor to gather sticks and try chopping down a smaller tree. I chopped down a small conifer in 3 swings and my fireaxe went from worn to worn.

 

Also if you are going to report you findings on the changes to the temp system you need to be more specific...clothes, server time, weather.

 

Edited September 25, 2014 by chodeofwar

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Just to check if this is broken, I sat around for almost 20 minutes and didn't die of hypothermia.  If you are going to make claims, post some video proof.  I'll be uploading a video of me sitting around to show I didn't freeze to death.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Oh, just to also point out, fire axes are not designed to chop trees.  They are for breaking down doors and windows.

[ColonelBurton 145]

Just to check if this is broken, I sat around for almost 20 minutes and didn't die of hypothermia.  If you are going to make claims, post some video proof.  I'll be uploading a video of me sitting around to show I didn't freeze to death.

 

No point in wasting your time. This is a sporadic glitch that seems to depend on the server you're on. I was just in a 3rd person and everything was fine. Then I switched to a different server and went to "COLD" within three minutes. I'll post the video of that soon.

 

Took me 3 Axes to collect sticks and firewood, since they all were ruined within only 2 hits on a tree. How is that possible?

 

This needs nerfing desperately in my opinion.

But apart from how the axes go ruined far too quick, in reality, freshly cut trees need to be chopped to blocks then dry for one summer before they can be put on a fire. Otherwise they'll hardly ignite, and if they do burn they do nothing but crackle and explode.

 

There is always plenty of "firewood" to be found in a dry forest. And you can make a perfectly good fire with small pieces of wood. You don't really need logs necessarily.

 

And even on rainy days, you will find somewhat dry wood close to trees or behind large rocks or steep slopes.

No need to mention that the fact that using your axe a few times shouldn't "damage" it right away. I have a wooden splitting axe in my backyard shed that I have probably been using for roughly 60-70 hours of splitting wood. The handle recently started getting wobbly and I needed to fix the head with a new wooden wedge. Simple as that.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

No point in wasting your time. This is a sporadic glitch that seems to depend on the server you're on. I was just in a 3rd person and everything was fine. Then I switched to a different server and went to "COLD" within three minutes. I'll post the video of that soon.

When you say "went to cold", do you mean you had the cold status on your character screen or the little message in the bottom left corner saying, "I am cooling off"  Also, it might carry over even if you change servers.