You show me yours, I'll show you mine

[blunce 991]

It is not making the game easier. In real life you would have other indicators to tell if someone was lying (body language). The stats are only revealed if you want them to be revealed. Please UNDERSTAND this one thing. It's not an automatic. The stats reveal nothing specific. Just that you killed so many people. Not the reason why. However, if you tell me you just kill in self defense and refuse to show me your stats, well that is revealing.

 

In a game you don't get to see all the nuances of a person's reaction to a chance encounter. Right now all you see is bang - you are dead. 

 

REPEAT - the stats are not automatically revealed - REPEAT

 

In my opinion, it is making the game easier, because PvP encounters are the heart of DayZ. If such a system existed, every encounter would consist of people asking to see stats, regardless of whether or not people choose to show them, which will more often than not, result in a "yes" or "no" response. When you encounter someone, you need to get a feel for them & their intentions using your own judgement just as you would in a real life situation. If someone committed murder in a real post-apocalyptic scenario, & said murderer were the only witness, where else would that information be documented other than his own conscience? Especially since his victim practically has no identity considering the downfall of the government in such a world.

 

Also, players in DayZ very much do display body language. We can't see things such as facial expressions, but you can see if he tries to stand close to you or far away, if he keeps looking around, checking his surroundings, if he takes a long time to respond to your questions, if he gives you short answers, if he keeps his gun drawn, etc. The tools are at your disposal.

 

You mentioned that TWD portrays a more realistic representation of the apocalypse. But how would a documented stat system portray that any better?

 

I understand that revealing the stats would not be automatic. You've made that very clear.

Edited September 12, 2014 by blunce

[RAM-bo4250 213]

Encounters in Dayz go down in three ways. All are perfectly valid.

 

1. Come on you filthy weak creatures. Where are you, you are so dead.   My system doesn't change this one iota.

 

2. Oh shit. There's a player. Is he going to try to kill me? I'm not taking any chances, bang.  My system doesn't change this one iota.

 

3. Oh shit. There's a player. Is he going to try to kill me? I'm gonna risk a meet. Hey you there, what's up, are you friendly?

You are. OK. Then you join up hang around a little and bang to the back of your head.

   This is the encounter my system is meant for.

 

New encounter: Oh shit. There's a player. Is he going to try to kill me? I'm gonna risk a meet. Hey you there, what's up, are you friendly? Oh, you are. Prove it show me your stats. Three responses:

1. refuse to show. I think your're a liar, turn around and head out or you're dead.

2. Show stats - lot of player kills. I just can't trust you, turn around and head out or you're dead.

3. Show stats - low player kills. Well at least it seems you are telling me the truth. Sure let's go. Possible outcome - trusted companions or bang you are dead, sorry this is Dayz.

 

 

 

 

I'm hoping for a lot more of 3. At least basing trust on something reasonable. People make decisions based on a lot of input. Unfortunately data in a game is a little too much two dimensional. In reality people would make judgements of people in more ways than just speech. We don't just strike up a friendship based on what a person says.

    We look at his appearance. We look at his mannerisms. I'm trying to simulate a little more information.

 

I'm not trying to reveal a person in any way shape or form. Encounters are purely optional. Revelations are purely optional. To me it is way way too easy to backstab someone. Even with my system backstabbing is possible. Stats are ambiguous - no real information. I don't ever want a system that outright identifies good or bad players like in the mod - bandit skins. 

Edited September 12, 2014 by RAM-bo4250

[blunce 991]

3. Oh shit. There's a player. Is he going to try to kill me? I'm gonna risk a meet. Hey you there, what's up, are you friendly?

You are. OK. Then you join up hang around a little and bang to the back of your head.

   This is the encounter my system is meant for.

 

New encounter: Oh shit. There's a player. Is he going to try to kill me? I'm gonna risk a meet. Hey you there, what's up, are you friendly? Oh, you are. Prove it show me your stats. Three responses:

1. refuse to show. I think your're a liar, turn around and head out or you're dead.

2. Show stats - lot of player kills. I just can't trust you, turn around and head out or you're dead.

3. Show stats - low player kills. Well at least it seems you are telling me the truth. Sure let's go. Possible outcome - trusted companions or bang you are dead, sorry this is Dayz.

 

This is exactly why I (personally) don't want such a system in-game. I don't want other players to ask me for my "stats". I want the ability to portray myself however I please without documentation of my past encounters.

 

What if a blood-thirsty KoSer turned over a new leaf, & legitimately tried to change his ways for the better & become a friendlier player? His stats would prevent him from doing that. What about players that have over 1,000 hours in-game? They would surely have a high number of player kills - all of which could be acts of self defense.

 

If I trust someone, & he gets the upper hand & kills me, then good. It's my fault, & I WANT to be punished for my mistakes. It will mold me into a better survivor, & teach me to evaluate other players more carefully.

 

Not knowing what your encounter's intentions are is what makes DayZ so great.

 

I'm not trying to bring you down Rambo, I'm just trying to offer reasonable insight as to why I think such a system would not have it's place in DayZ.

 

To me it just seems like you're disappointed in either being betrayed so many times, or simply not finding friendly encounters in general. My best advice for that, is work on your people skills.

 

That's what these players are - people. They're still people. & they shouldn't be bound to a stat system that poorly reflects who they are as individuals.

[soulfirez 901]

Hmmm strange your really trying to get this stat thing over on people.. Look at your signature and then tell me in what way is a stat system gritty or authentic?? sounds artificial to me and i dont see it building any trust i mean even those who do KoS usually only have fairly low player kills (unless there hanging outside berez sniping and then i dont need stats to know there bad.)

 

So what you will get is a freshly spawned or fairly new character of a bandit player going yeah i am friendly there my stats bang your dead, ha ha ha sucker then people going fuck that shit i am just going to kill anyone i see because i cant trust them.

 

So in the end we will be pretty much back to where we are now BUT now those who like to deathmatch KoS will have stats to take screen shots to boost there epeen making deathmatching more popular and quite likely making the game more of a straight PvP game because now it has kill stats and the fact we didnt have kill stats was one of the thin lines between this being a pure PvP game on a big map with looting.

 

But hey they just how i see it going when you add a stat with player kills in it i could be wrong but just look at the amount of people who already say its a pure deathmatch game....

[chepaco3290 59]

 

 

New encounter: Oh shit. There's a player. Is he going to try to kill me? I'm gonna risk a meet. Hey you there, what's up, are you friendly? Oh, you are. Prove it show me your stats. 

 

This is the faulty basis upon which this whole idea of stats is built. Stats can not "prove" anything, nor can it accurately hint to anything either. 

 

First off, if you were in a zombie apoc, would you be able to approach someone and ask them to "show me you stats please"??? No. That completely destroys the immersion feeling of DayZ. 

 

Second, if you did ask said individual for their stats, could they not give you a false stat to make you believe something that isn't true?

 

Last, what about those of us who play the "hero" type and hunt bandits? That's what I do in this game...I hunt bandits, and I love doing it. But that would make my stats look like I'm a KoS'er. My stats would not prove anything whatsoever unless there is a hero/bandit/medic class system which can tell another player what kind of people I tend to kill. 

 

Your assumption is simply faulty on so many levels. 

[RAM-bo4250 213]

I don't react to things done to me. I am a lone wolf player and avoid all contacts if I can. I have never joined up with anyone before. In my opinion people do stupid stuff. That stupid stuff can get me killed. This game is not a win or lose game. It is, how long do I survive. If I fail I want to fail on my own.

 

I don't post things in a willy nilly way either. I read the forums. I listen to what other people are saying. Then I think to myself, how if possible can I mitigate their grievances. It is true people are liars. It is not true they are world class poker players.

 

If not one single person agrees with me that's fine. I am really OK with that. All I'm doing is starting a discussion. I am not the dev with the power to implement any idea. I do like coming up with food for thought however.

 

No feelings hurt here if no one agrees with me. It's all good.

[Cpanther 221]

 

I'm not sure about other people seeing it - but I certainly would be interested in knowing:

1. My zed kills
2. My player kills
3. My zed deaths
4. My player deaths
5. My deaths other

 

You can't have it one way without having it the other way too... you want to know how many people you killing ?, other people should also be allow to see how many people you killing too.

 

You want a "realistic" game ? it works both ways.. not only the way that fits you.

Edited September 12, 2014 by Cpanther

[soulfirez 901]

I don't react to things done to me. I am a lone wolf player and avoid all contacts if I can. I have never joined up with anyone before. In my opinion people do stupid stuff. That stupid stuff can get me killed. This game is not a win or lose game. It is, how long do I survive. If I fail I want to fail on my own.

 

I don't post things in a willy nilly way either. I read the forums. I listen to what other people are saying. Then I think to myself, how if possible can I mitigate their grievances. It is true people are liars. It is not true they are world class poker players.

 

If not one single person agrees with me that's fine. I am really OK with that. All I'm doing is starting a discussion. I am not the dev with the power to implement any idea. I do like coming up with food for thought however.

 

No feelings hurt here if no one agrees with me. It's all good.

Shit i hope you dont feel bad i have enjoyed many of your posts and agreed with many of your ideas i just personally think this idea while coming from an idea to help will actually detract from the game. I cant count how many bad ideas i have had over the years(they cant all be slices of fried gold) but again i could be wrong (happens all the time) but it just doesnt feel right and many people who i have read there posts and thought there head is screwed on right dont seem to like it either..

[RAM-bo4250 213]

This is the faulty basis upon which this whole idea of stats is built. Stats can not "prove" anything, nor can it accurately hint to anything either. 

 

First off, if you were in a zombie apoc, would you be able to approach someone and ask them to "show me you stats please"??? No. That completely destroys the immersion feeling of DayZ.  - No, all the stats are doing is asking the questions how many zombies have you killed? How many people? Reasonable questions.

 

Second, if you did ask said individual for their stats, could they not give you a false stat to make you believe something that isn't true? - Certainly. But there are things that a two dimensional game can't do. They can't make a judgement based on your appearance and can't make a judgement based on your mannerisms.

 

Last, what about those of us who play the "hero" type and hunt bandits? That's what I do in this game...I hunt bandits, and I love doing it. But that would make my stats look like I'm a KoS'er. My stats would not prove anything whatsoever unless there is a hero/bandit/medic class system which can tell another player what kind of people I tend to kill.  All that proves is you're a killer and like doing it and I still don't want to hang with you. People who like killing disturb me. Military people hate war and do what they do when they absolutely have to. Is that universal? No.

 

Your assumption is simply faulty on so many levels. In your opinion.

[RAM-bo4250 213]

and many people who i have read there posts and thought there head is screwed on right dont seem to like it either..

I like your responses too. My feelings are not hurt. So, does this mean my head isn't screwed on right?  :D

Edited September 12, 2014 by RAM-bo4250

[Death By Crowbar 1213]

You can't have it one way without having it the other way too... you want to know how many people you killing ?, other people should also be allow to see how many people you killing too.

 

You want a "realistic" game ? it works both ways.. not only the way that fits you.

I don't see why that would need to be. Other players cannot "see" my hydration, hunger, or health indicators. Other players cannot "see" my total hours played. There's already things in game that only we know and that aren't available to other players. So no, it doesn't have to be that way, it could simply be revealed to the individual user and not to the community at large.

[Cpanther 221]

I don't see why that would need to be. Other players cannot "see" my hydration, hunger, or health indicators. Other players cannot "see" my total hours played. There's already things in game that only we know and that aren't available to other players. So no, it doesn't have to be that way, it could simply be revealed to the individual user and not to the community at large.

Sorry..but in my opinion knowing how many people you kill will only feed the ego of the psychotic KoSers.. and unbalance the game even more. If we have stats they have to be Open and affect the full game.

[RAM-bo4250 213]

it could simply be revealed to the individual user and not to the community at large.

That's my idea and the point I've been trying (unsuccessfully) to make. The only reasonable gripe that I've read is the one saying that I want to flat out lie to you as if I was a world class poker player. And as I rebutted there is nothing in a two dimensional game that allows me to judge you by your mannerisms. There are good liars and there are very very bad ones. The game doesn't make that distinction. My system sought of mitigate's that a little. Overpowered, probably. But right now lying is pervasive and sets the stage for ONLY KOS (only for those who may not do it). All game design decisions are tradeoffs.

[RAM-bo4250 213]

Sorry..but in my opinion knowing how many people you kill will only feed the ego of the psychotic KoSers.. and unbalance the game even more. If we have stats they have to be Open and affect the full game.

You don't think people's egos aren't being fed now? I read all the time where players are keeping track on paper. In a game where that even isn't a goal.

The only designed goal is: How long can I survive.

[Cpanther 221]

You don't think people's egos aren't being fed now? I read all the time where players are keeping track on paper. In a game where that even isn't a goal.

The only designed goal is: How long can I survive.

Yeah.. but you can't show you piece of paper in the forum for example, but if it is a stats tracker... people are going to go in killing sprees just to "show off" how many kills they have... and if you think cheating is bad now... give the cheaters a "good" reason to cheat, and see what will happen.

Edited September 12, 2014 by Cpanther

[RAM-bo4250 213]

Yeah.. but you can't show you piece of paper in the forum for example, but if it is a stats tracker... people are going to go in killing sprees just to "show off" how many kills they have... and if you think cheating is bad now... give the cheaters a "good" reason to cheat, and see what will happen.

One quick question. You do realize that that is showing only one person right? Not the whole community?

 

You certainly can show a piece of paper in the forum. A text document?

 

This system affects only me, as in, Can I trust you in order to play with you? No other.

[Cpanther 221]

One quick question. You do realize that that is showing only one person right? Not the whole community?

 

You certainly can show a piece of paper in the forum. A text document?

 

This system affects only me, as in, Can I trust you in order to play with you? No other.

I talking about the "stats tracker" that you will need to have to record stats, which people will find away to access and post it in their signatures...i just think is a very bad idea that will take DayZ in the wrong direction.

Edited September 12, 2014 by Cpanther

[RAM-bo4250 213]

Come on guys, your arguments are mostly built on misunderstanding. Invalidate my argument. Make me change my mind like you did with the tents.

 

The only reasonable argument, and weak, in my opinion, is that you can't lie to me like a world class poker player. Even in that argument you can still betray me. Just a little bit harder. The only player this hurts is the one who says that I should be totally gullible and believe every word he says, even a boldfaced lie. He wants to lie with impunity. I've already shown that that ability is way overpowered. In reality, I would also be making decisions to hang with you, based on body language and mannerisms, which are not displayed in a two dimensional game world.

 

So all in all my idea affects only one small portion of gameplay.

 

 

[sab0t 109]

this would suck for me...i had been killing everything i came across for awhile, but then my friend joined up and now we are running around as paramedics.

 

if someone looked at my stats it would be like

 

PARAMEDIC - 124 Zombie kills / 19 Player kills

 

:(

[RAM-bo4250 213]

I talking about the "stats tracker" that you will need to have to record stats, which people will find away to access and post it in their signatures...i just think is a very bad idea that will take DayZ in the wrong direction.

It's an under the hood stats tracker that affects a one on one encounter. Basically, a tiny hint. A sort  of abstracted mannerism, body language device.

 

The game right now is full of people who have found a way to access inaccessible things, should we shut the game down?

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

I have to disagree with your idea RAM.  Stats in general do not fit in with DayZ.  Don't get me wrong, body language is usually the best way to tell if you can trust someone and it would be hard to simulate that in a game but that is why DayZ is unique.  Trust in DayZ is something that is hard to earn but you don't need stats to do that and it failed miserably in the mod with the humanity system or whatever it was called.  For example, someone could easily go around killing infected and rack up a good kill count just to fool someone into thinking they aren't a bad person and them, blam, you get shot in the face or in the back.

 

Best thing to do is use these forums to get to know more people and friend them, add them to steam and do some gaming sessions with them but in the end, still don't trust anyone.

[RAM-bo4250 213]

The ONLY gauge to trustworthiness in the game right now is a bullet to the brain.

 

I am surprised at the lack of response from the Anti-KOS crowd who want to see more player interaction and less KOS.

This will take away forcing you to KOS. At least give you a better basis into trusting somebody.

 

Right now there are only 3 real choices in trying to avoid death.

1.) KOS

2.) Lone-wolfing

3.) Travel in a large group.

 

My little device at least gives some viabilty to smaller groups. Especially those of the I just met you let's team up kind.

[RAM-bo4250 213]

I have to disagree with your idea RAM.  Stats in general do not fit in with DayZ.  Don't get me wrong, body language is usually the best way to tell if you can trust someone and it would be hard to simulate that in a game but that is why DayZ is unique.  Trust in DayZ is something that is hard to earn but you don't need stats to do that and it failed miserably in the mod with the humanity system or whatever it was called.  For example, someone could easily go around killing infected and rack up a good kill count just to fool someone into thinking they aren't a bad person and them, blam, you get shot in the face or in the back.

 

Best thing to do is use these forums to get to know more people and friend them, add them to steam and do some gaming sessions with them but in the end, still don't trust anyone.

Caboose, please tell me you understand I'm not talking about universal stats that everyone gets to see when they are close by. It is only on a 1v1 basis. And only revealed if wanted. Because it seems to me you are misunderstanding because of you bringing up the mod's humanity system.

 

I am not talking about that here. My little device changes nothing, does nothing in game. It does not reveal to the world at large anything unless you want to reveal it. It doesn't change appearances. It doesn't let the world see you are a bad guy at all. The two systems are incomparable. The humanity system revealed to the world what you were. I'm against that.

 

The only thing it does is help you make a rational decision to join with someone. That's all. KOSers complain about tedium in the game, the PvE aspects.

The Anti-Kosers complain about the tedium of dealing with KOSers.

Tell me it's not tedious to befriend person after person who, because of the pervasive KOS, kill you the first chance they get because you have absolutely no other choice but to believe them if you happen to be a player who likes teaming with others.

 

And before I hear I must be butt hurt over KOSers. I am a lone wolf. I loathe and shy away from encounters at every step. I have been caught out because of stupid play. I embrace that. It adds to the suspense and surprise of my gaming. I read in the forum that others are butthurt over these circumstances. I tried to put forth and idea that slightly mitigates this.

 

But before responding, can you all realize what I am saying to begin with. I don't know how to make it clear that I am not talking about a humanity system.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Caboose, please tell me you understand I'm not talking about universal stats that everyone gets to see when they are close by. It is only on a 1v1 basis. And only revealed if wanted. Because it seems to me you are misunderstanding because of you bringing up the mod's humanity system.

 

I am not talking about that here. My little device changes nothing, does nothing in game. It does not reveal to the world at large anything unless you want to reveal it. It doesn't change appearances. It doesn't let the world see you are a bad guy at all. The two systems are incomparable. The humanity system revealed to the world what you were. I'm against that.

 

The only thing it does is help you make a rational decision to join with someone. That's all. KOSers complain about tedium in the game, the PvE aspects.

The Anti-Kosers complain about the tedium of dealing with KOSers.

Tell me it's not tedious to befriend person after person who, because of the pervasive KOS, kill you the first chance they get because you have absolutely no other choice but to believe them if you happen to be a player who likes teaming with others.

 

And before I hear I must be butt hurt over KOSers. I am a lone wolf. I loathe and shy away from encounters at every step. I have been caught out because of stupid play. I embrace that. It adds to the suspense and surprise of my gaming. I read in the forum that others are butthurt over these circumstances. I tried to put forth and idea that slightly mitigates this.

 

But before responding, can you all realize what I am saying to begin with. I don't know how to make it clear that I am not talking about a humanity system.

Oh I know you aren't but what I meant is people would still take advantage of like like they did with the humanity system.  Whether or not it can only be seen by a 1v1 contact doesn't change the fact that someone could easily skew the stats just to get people to trust them and then easily take them out.  That's what makes DayZ so good, not knowing.  I don't care if the KoS'ers whine.  I don't care if the anti-KoS'ers whine.

[Cpanther 221]

And by the way... change the title of the thread already.. every time i read it i start to unzip my trousers...