You show me yours, I'll show you mine

[RAM-bo4250 213]

I think maybe I have come up with an idea that allows us to ask these two questions. How many zombies have you killed? How many people?

 

The old stats system from the mod. They remain hidden except to the owning player period. If you are approached and asked to see those stats we would then be able to reveal those stats to another. In the Walking Dead these questions revealed the trustworthiness (likely) of a potential group invite. People are liars in the game and will not tell the truth. Those who would want to be part of a good group would tell the truth. To avoid the advantage of the baddie stats would have to be revealed.

 

Example: Player A, a survivalist, wants to be part of a group because he thinks it safer. Player A runs into Player B. Player A should never trust Player B. In the system now-Are you friendly? Yes. Little while later Player B backstabs player A. In this new system - simulated asking those two questions - Are you friendly? Prove it, show me your stats. You both show each other those stats.

 

What is discovered upon being revealed.

A.) player B trustworthy by his stats - 30 zombies killed - 2 players killed

B.) Player B unknown - 0 zombies killed - 0 players killed (freshspawn?) ; or 25 zombies killed , 10 players killed 

C.) Player B untrustworthy - 10 zombies killed - 30 players killed

 

It won't prevent KOS but it will, I believe, mitigate it to some degree. In reality because of body language etc. sometimes a persons attitude can be revealed. In a game impossible.

 

What do you guys think? Viable? Why or why not.

[guppy22143 1081]

Please don't make this a thing. I am sick of the ungodly amount of meta in the mod.

This isn't CoD, this is dayz. Expect players to have the edge, and expect to die.

[Cpanther 221]

inb4 the NO's.

 

I like it, but maybe not with stats... more like you facial expressions changing if you decide to show that information.. like a calm relax expression ,or a psycho like expression. I'm sure this have been discuss before thought.. somewhere.. is some thread.. in a galaxy far away...

Edited September 12, 2014 by Cpanther

[RAM-bo4250 213]

Please don't make this a thing. I am sick of the ungodly amount of meta in the mod.

This isn't CoD, this is dayz. Expect players to have the edge, and expect to die.

I totally don't understand what you are saying. Care to clarify? Your right, this isn't CoD - a PvP game. It also is not Rust - a PvE game. It is Dayz - a PvPE game.

[RAM-bo4250 213]

inb4 the NO's.

 

I like it, but maybe not with stats... more like you facial expressions changing if you decide to show that information.. like a calm relax expression ,or a psycho like expression. I'm sure this have been discuss before thought.. somewhere.. is some thread.. in a galaxy far away...

In my view the stats are ambiguous. They mean nothing. It's more of a risk assessment. A person can wake up one morning and decide he's going on a killing spree. Facial expressions are too fixed. Gives too much information. There has got to be a little mystery. 

[chompster 171]

Either the other person refuses to show his "stats" (which shouldn't be a thing in DayZ at all) making him suspicious, or he shows them and then you find out he's killed a ton of people. What then? you shoot him? Sounds like something i'd never use. 

 

Also, suggestions go here http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/forum/128-suggestions/

Edited September 12, 2014 by Chompster

[Cpanther 221]

In my view the stats are ambiguous. They mean nothing. It's more of a risk assessment. A person can wake up one morning and decide he's going on a killing spree. Facial expressions are too fixed. Gives too much information. There has got to be a little mystery. 

Well.. a "visual" humanity system is the only thing i seen most people agreeing with, people are very anti-stats in the Standalone, and so do i..but facial expressions aren't stats, is just something that you can "see".

[DMentMan 707]

horrible idea, sorry, it sucks.       ​(friendly version of my post)

also title is kinda misleading lol.

 

edit: this has been suggested multiple times before.

Edited September 12, 2014 by DMentMan

[RAM-bo4250 213]

Either the other person refuses to show his "stats" (which shouldn't be a thing in DayZ at all) making him suspicious, or he shows them and then you find out he's killed a ton of people. What then? you shoot him? Sounds like something i'd never use. 

 

Also, suggestions go here http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/forum/128-suggestions/

I can appreciate that. Your choice. That first sentence of yours is what I'm after. In my opinion all players are suspicious. I see that, others do not. They are good people and expect others to be that way. It's not like that in the apocalypse. You can still be a good person, you just have to be smart about it. I've read on the forums where people say the weak go first. Not my opinion. The stupid go first.

 

Let me show you a typical chance encounter in the game based on a scene from The Walking Dead.

Hershel finally sees the reality of the world. He's a good man. It took him a while. Remember the scene when Hershel was drinking in the bar in town? Rick and his group were there not expecting company or let their guard down. That's when the ? (probable KOS) guys came in. They were confident if not somewhat cocky. Rick wasn't going to KOS. But he never let his guard down. He was smart. Talking with them he realized by their body language etc they were going to KOS. Rick won of course (he's the star). That sit is repeated over and over and over in Dayz.

 

I'm just trying to give the good guy here a fighting chance to remain good. And not jump on the KOS bandwagon.

[chepaco3290 59]

This would completely ruin the immersion aspect of a zombie apoc. 

 

I'd say the ONLY stat that one should see is the other player's name. If we were really in a zombie apoc and we came across a fellow player, we'd recognize who they are if we had met them before. That wouldn't ruin immersion. But kill stats? That's too arcade-ish.

[RAM-bo4250 213]

horrible idea, sorry, it sucks.       ​(friendly version of my post)

also title is kinda misleading lol.

 

edit: this has been suggested multiple times before.

All advertising is misleading. What does a Gecko have to do with car insurance? I just like giving a grabby title so people will want to at least view the topic. There is a preview button also. The more people that see it the more ideas floated around. 

      If I havn't seen those suggestions, others havn't either. And I see a lot of topics repeated and repeated and repeated. Not relevant.

[RAM-bo4250 213]

This would completely ruin the immersion aspect of a zombie apoc. 

 

I'd say the ONLY stat that one should see is the other player's name. If we were really in a zombie apoc and we came across a fellow player, we'd recognize who they are if we had met them before. That wouldn't ruin immersion. But kill stats? That's too arcade-ish.

They are only revealed if you want to reveal them. It's not revealed to everyone. So, arcadish, no. Not forced on everyone. Your choice. In real life you wouldn't know a person's name if they weren't willing to reveal it? So that system is no good. I'm trying to simulate (in a way) body language. Even the simple act of not revealing your stats is body language. 

 

This revelation is VOLUNTARY. It's not you get close and see someone's stats automatically.

Edited September 12, 2014 by RAM-bo4250

[blunce 991]

People are liars in the game and will not tell the truth.

 

This^. Just like real life, people can lie & deceive if they please. It's up to you to decide whether or not your encounter can be trusted or not. I don't want an "easy" way of telling that's spelled out for me.

 

Keep getting killed by people you trust? Work on your judgement. There's no sense in trying to make the game "easier".

 

Also, trying to determine whether your encounter is friendly or not is the fun of DayZ. It's a much more personable experience. I don't want DayZ to become fabricated.

 

& as others have said, huge immersion-breaker.

 

EDIT: Say that they did implement said stat system. How can you determine how many of your encounters kills were justified? How do you know whether all of his kills were in self defense or if he was on the offensive & is just trigger happy?

 

In my honest, humble opinion, it seems like a very flawed concept.

Edited September 12, 2014 by blunce

[chompster 171]

Though i get where you're going, and agree that without any form of body language it's impossible to truly trust someone you don't already know in Dayz. But having stats show what the player has been doing is in my opinion too much of a hard fact.

 

There's no guess, or finding out (on your own) exactly whats going on or what he's up to. It just flat out tells you, this guy is a murderer. Watch out/Kill him. And for those that play a more hostile way have no way of getting around it. Because as soon as they refuse to show their stats it's revealed what they'v done. While it's the same the other way around, there's a far smaller chance (but then again this is Dayz..) for them getting killed after having shown their stats

"oh this is a nice guy, look at how many beans he's given to people and all those infected kills. Those 3 player kills were probably bandits" 

while a bandit gets

"oh look at all the players this guy has killed"  *shoots him in the head*

 

Though this of course varies based on who is looking at the stats, it could be a fellow bandit who wants to know where he's killed so many people, but even then most bandits won't team up and will kill each other just as easily.

 

Which is why i don't think it's a good idea to have.

Edited September 12, 2014 by Chompster

[RAM-bo4250 213]

We as players are basing our KOS (those inclined not to) on nefarious data. I'm just trying to have a little more data so those inclined not to KOS have a fighting chance of keeping their humanity. Now it's KOS based on the premise that everyone does it so I might as well too. Everyone does it (not actually the case as I don't do it) is not representative of a real situation. The Walking Dead portrays a more realistic representation of the apocalypse in my opinion.

[RAM-bo4250 213]

This^. Just like real life, people can lie & deceive if they please. It's up to you to decide whether or not your encounter can be trusted or not. I don't want an "easy" way of telling that's spelled out for me.

 

Keep getting killed by people you trust? Work on your judgement. There's no sense in trying to make the game "easier".

 

Also, trying to determine whether your encounter is friendly or not is the fun of DayZ. It's a much more personable experience. I don't want DayZ to become fabricated.

 

& as others have said, huge immersion-breaker.

 

EDIT: Say that they did implement said stat system. How can you determine how many of your encounters kills were justified? How do you know whether all of his kills were in self defense or if he was on the offensive & is just trigger happy?

 

In my honest, humble opinion, it seems like a very flawed concept.

It is not making the game easier. In real life you would have other indicators to tell if someone was lying (body language). The stats are only revealed if you want them to be revealed. Please UNDERSTAND this one thing. It's not an automatic. The stats reveal nothing specific. Just that you killed so many people. Not the reason why. However, if you tell me you just kill in self defense and refuse to show me your stats, well that is revealing.

 

In a game you don't get to see all the nuances of a person's reaction to a chance encounter. Right now all you see is bang - you are dead. 

 

REPEAT - the stats are not automatically revealed - REPEAT

[mercules 1290]

The problem is that most people's definition of someone who should be killed on sight, even those who are generally "good guys" is, "They have a rifle/axe/pistol." For some it goes down to "fists". 

 

Basically it is a circular problem.

Everyone is afraid of and can't trust anyone else because everyone is afraid of and can't trust anyone else.


So hopefully someday someone will come up with some system that allows us some insight into if that person is trustworthy or not. In real life you can often read intent unless the person is a seriously practiced liar, has no affect, believes they are telling the truth, or is a psychopath (which again likely leads back to one of those others reasons).

[RAM-bo4250 213]

Though i get where you're going, and agree that without any form of body language it's impossible to truly trust someone you don't already know in Dayz. But having stats show what the player has been doing is in my opinion too much of a hard fact.

 

There's no guess, or finding out (on your own) exactly whats going on or what he's up to. It just flat out tells you, this guy is a murderer. Watch out/Kill him. And for those that play a more hostile way have no way of getting around it. Because as soon as they refuse to show their stats it's revealed what they'v done. While it's the same the other way around, there's a far smaller chance (but then again this is Dayz..) for them getting killed after having shown their stats

"oh this is a nice guy, look at how many beans he's given to people and all those infected kills. Those 3 player kills were probably bandits" 

while a bandit gets

"oh look at all the players this guy has killed"  *shoots him in the head*

 

Though this of course varies based on who is looking at the stats, it could be a fellow bandit who wants to know where he's killed so many people, but even then most bandits won't team up and will kill each other just as easily.

 

Which is why i don't think it's a good idea to have.

Please guys understand.

 

THESE STATS ARE NOT AUTOMATICALLY REVEALED - the player himself must reveal them and then only if he wants to.

[RAM-bo4250 213]

The problem is that most people's definition of someone who should be killed on sight, even those who are generally "good guys" is, "They have a rifle/axe/pistol." For some it goes down to "fists". 

 

Basically it is a circular problem.

Everyone is afraid of and can't trust anyone else because everyone is afraid of and can't trust anyone else.

So hopefully someday someone will come up with some system that allows us some insight into if that person is trustworthy or not. In real life you can often read intent unless the person is a seriously practiced liar, has no affect, believes they are telling the truth, or is a psychopath (which again likely leads back to one of those others reasons).

This is where I believe my system would work.

 

AND AGAIN - THESE STATS ARE NOT AUTOMATICALLY REVEALED - they are revealed if and only if the player wants to reveal them.

[RAM-bo4250 213]

KOSers, have no fear. I am not trying to bring about a system whereby someone can tell what you are. It still stands the way it is. You don't even have to talk to someone if you don't want to.

 

 THE STATS ARE NOT AUTOMATICALLY REVEALED - They are revealed if and only if you decide to.

 

And non KOS people - This is a little more help in determining who you may possibly trust, no guarantee. An encounter like this goes down only if you want it to. 

 

Everyone has a choice.

Edited September 12, 2014 by RAM-bo4250

[chompster 171]

Please guys understand.

 

THESE STATS ARE NOT AUTOMATICALLY REVEALED - the player himself must reveal them and then only if he wants to.

I get that, and that's the problem.

 

As soon as someone refuses to reveal his stats when you ask him he's pretty much untrustworthy and you're better off just killing him (at which point he's point blank making him a huge threat to yourself). So those that kill a lot of players have pretty much no use for this system as it outright tells the other person he's a killer. 

Edited September 12, 2014 by Chompster

[blissandpanic 92]

OP, you used TWD as an example but they don't carry score cards around in the show. What i mean is they could just lie when Rick asks them if they killed people before. Good effort but i don't think it would work because if some guy ambushes a group of bandits who are holding up a friend and kills 4 for example, then his/her score card would show them as a bandit?

 

I would like to see things that would indicate a recent activity; a bloody vest when someone kills another with melee or a steaming rifle if they were in a heavy firefight in the last 15mins. Of course they could have been defending themselves? but it would add another layer as you assess if they are trustworthy.

 

-my 2 cents

[chepaco3290 59]

They are only revealed if you want to reveal them. It's not revealed to everyone. So, arcadish, no.  

 

Yes it is arcade-ish because there's a computer determining your stats for you, and displaying them to the other player upon your choice to display it. But that completely ruins the immersion aspect of this game, because players should have the ability to lie to another player and tell them "yeah, I've killed 1000 zeds and only 5 players" and see if the other player bites the bait. For the game to record your kill stats just screams arcade. 

 

In real life you wouldn't know a person's name if they weren't willing to reveal it? So that system is no good.

 

 

Not on the first encounter, but after that first encounter, you'd "recognize" them. Maybe you'd even nickname them, like "oh, there goes Chuck, because he tried to beat me up once" or "Oh hey, there's Al Gore again...because he was an idiot and drank disinfectant." The only stat I'm ok with is displaying names because in a zombie apoc where very few humans remain alive, people would soon get to know everyone in their area whether it be by sight or by word of mouth. Besides, it would definitely help with reporting hackers, which is enough for me to support it. 

[Death By Crowbar 1213]

I'm not sure about other people seeing it - but I certainly would be interested in knowing:

1. My zed kills
2. My player kills
3. My zed deaths
4. My player deaths
5. My deaths other

[JackyCTV 54]

I think maybe I have come up with an idea that allows us to ask these two questions. How many zombies have you killed? How many people?

 

The old stats system from the mod. They remain hidden except to the owning player period. If you are approached and asked to see those stats we would then be able to reveal those stats to another. In the Walking Dead these questions revealed the trustworthiness (likely) of a potential group invite. People are liars in the game and will not tell the truth. Those who would want to be part of a good group would tell the truth. To avoid the advantage of the baddie stats would have to be revealed.

 

Example: Player A, a survivalist, wants to be part of a group because he thinks it safer. Player A runs into Player B. Player A should never trust Player B. In the system now-Are you friendly? Yes. Little while later Player B backstabs player A. In this new system - simulated asking those two questions - Are you friendly? Prove it, show me your stats. You both show each other those stats.

 

What is discovered upon being revealed.

A.) player B trustworthy by his stats - 30 zombies killed - 2 players killed

B.) Player B unknown - 0 zombies killed - 0 players killed (freshspawn?) ; or 25 zombies killed , 10 players killed 

C.) Player B untrustworthy - 10 zombies killed - 30 players killed

 

It won't prevent KOS but it will, I believe, mitigate it to some degree. In reality because of body language etc. sometimes a persons attitude can be revealed. In a game impossible.

 

What do you guys think? Viable? Why or why not.

Unlike everyone flaming you, I actually like the idea but it needs tweaking it shouldn't be a stat but it cant just be facial expressions because they are not reliable and like what has been stated what if you dont get the answers you want? kill them?

Just because a player has lets say, 30 Z kills & 1000 Player kills, that doesnt make him a "Bandit" or "KoSer" he could be one of the more reliable guys to meet

I would like to see a visual humanity system but Im not sure how it could be done  :(