Rejoice! 5.45x39mm is coming to Dayz

[gibonez 3633]

The more different cartridges you add the harder to balance the player experience between "I can find tons of ammo but not of the right type" and "I can't find much ammo but when I do its the right type". Having less ammo types means players are more likely to use the same and compete. Having more ammo types increases the chances of every player having "his own" ammo leaving the rest for others to find.

 

I think both guns and ammo shouldn't be too common (speak: pretty rare) in the first place. Now having too many calilbers spreads suitable ammo thin resulting in "nobody can find the right ammunition for his/her gun" (if ammo in general is hard to find) or "everyone finds ammo pretty easily if he has the right weapon" (if ammo in general is not that hard to find).

 

Having fewer ammo types means more players compete for the same source. Having more ammo types means more players can "escape" into different niches. Now more niches can make for harder competition inside each niche but there is also much less competition between them. So FN Fal, SVT-40 and M1 Garand would be able to coexist much better than FN Fal, G3 and M14.

I fail to see your reasoning.

 

So because there are less ammo types less people will have ammo ? huh .

 

The only thing having less calibers does is make the game easier by making it easier to feed whatever gun you find.

Having more and diverse calibers ensure that ammo is hard to find by not only making ammo rare but by also making the ammo that you specifically need harder to find.

[Chaingunfighter 917]

Does anyone know that Dean basically confirmed the M1 Garand on PAX? This would probably mean .30-06 will be there as well - not an unrealistic choice but having three full power cartridges (.30-06, 7.62x54mmR and 7.62x51mm NATO) seems a little much to me.

I think the idea is that .30-06 will be the general full-powered hunting cartridge, used almost exclusively in civilian weapons, 7.62x54mmR will be somewhat common and be used across the board in lower-end weapons like the Mosin, middle-end weapons like the SVT-40, and high-end weapons like the PK and SVD, and 7.62x51mm will be the rare NATO round used in most battle rifles, long-ranged sniper rifles, and GPMGs.

Also, it's not technically confirmed, but usually when the devs (especially Rocket) say that they want something, it's going to be done.

 

 

The more different cartridges you add the harder to balance the player experience between "I can find tons of ammo but not of the right type" and "I can't find much ammo but when I do its the right type". Having less ammo types means players are more likely to use the same and compete. Having more ammo types increases the chances of every player having "his own" ammo leaving the rest for others to find.

 

I think both guns and ammo shouldn't be too common (speak: pretty rare) in the first place. Now having too many calilbers spreads suitable ammo thin resulting in "nobody can find the right ammunition for his/her gun" (if ammo in general is hard to find) or "everyone finds ammo pretty easily if he has the right weapon" (if ammo in general is not that hard to find).

 

Having fewer ammo types means more players compete for the same source. Having more ammo types means more players can "escape" into different niches. Now more niches can make for harder competition inside each niche but there is also much less competition between them. So FN Fal, SVT-40 and M1 Garand would be able to coexist much better than FN Fal, G3 and M14.

 

Which is why you should have a good balance of both. I mean, the M1 Garand was probably on the better end of rifles you could get with .30-06, as most of them would be regular hunting rifles.

 

You can have guns like the M14, FN FAL, and G3 at the same time (they perform quite differently), but they'd be across the board. Guns like the M1 Garand and SVT-40 would be more common than say an M14 because they generally hold fewer rounds and aren't as capable, but they'd also have their own advantages being that ammunition is more prevalent. Plus, the M1 Garand has the bonus of being clip-loaded and thus not "needing" magazines.

 

I'd say the difference between the G3 and FN FAL would be barrel lengths and modularity. Variants are across the board, but your typical G3 has a shorter barrel than the FAL and is more modular, while the FAL gets a much better range. This is, of course, negligible, because both have tons of other models that are super modular (or not at all so), and have varying barrel sizes.

Still, you could justify both of them for that purpose.

 

The M14 is a semi-automatic rifle (in most cases today), so the selector switch would be its biggest separator.

[igor-vk 909]

All devs could do is rename AK101 to AK74M, since that is what it is, judged by the shape of magazine.

I don't mind having both. Until we get another NATO assoult rifle. Which, I hope comes next!!

[Legio23 82]

Okay, thank you.

I was just wondering since they are smaller than a typical rifle at least in length.

 

Yup the AKS-74U would fit nicely into most of the backpacks in game...i hope, as it fits into a day sack quite nicely in RL, folded up and the mag off.

[chompster 171]

I don't mind having both. Until we get another NATO assoult rifle. Which, I hope comes next!!

ehh.. i'd rather have some more SMGs and pistols before more rifles and other big weapons are added. Like a Uzi or Mac10

[Katana67 2907]

Hey, neat! Glad it made it in.

 

All that's left is for the planned .308/7.62x54R divide to happen and we should be in business for the most part. Model looks great. And like others, I wonder if they'll keep the AK-101 or re-name it back to the AK-74M.

 

And if the rumors of the M1 Garand are true, and the implication of .30-06 comes to pass, then we'll have (ostensibly) .30-06 for hunting rifles, 7.62x54R for uncommon Pact weapons, and then .308 for NATO stuff.

 

Personally, I don't see much utility in a 5.56x45 AK if we've got 5.45x39. But, the more the merrier. I'd like them to give the AK platform a rest for a bit after this, or after they add an RPK.

[gibonez 3633]

ehh.. i'd rather have some more SMGs and pistols before more rifles and other big weapons are added. Like a Uzi or Mac10

 

Yup those are indeed nice both are so iconic.

 

Uzi could be the common 9mm smg and mac 10 could be the .45 acp smg.

[Evil Minion 943]

I fail to see your reasoning.

There are two types of rarity:

• spawn-induced static rarity (spawn rate, spawn points etc.)
• player-induced dynamic rarity (taking things, using things etc.)

And those interact with each other as well. More ammo types increase the former and decrease the latter while fewer ammo types decrease the former and increase the latter. Now look at the extremes:

 

With only one ammo type every ammo spawn over the map would spawn the same kind of ammo but also every player would need it. So finding ammo in an area that is already looted would be close to impossible but finding ammo in unlooted areas would be guaranteed.

 

With every player having his own weapon with his own ammo they would not compete at all - searching an already looted area would give you about the same chances of finding ammo than searching an unlooted area - in fact if ammo types share spawn points others looting an area would over (a longer period of) time increase your chance of finding your ammo there.

 

So fewer ammo types put a greater emphasis on moving around the map looking for areas your rivals did not yet pick clean resulting in transient gameplay while more ammo types put greater emphasis on finding a weapon that uses ammo not used by too many other players resulting in resident gameplay. Now a good mix is probably the best for the game so the number of different cartridges should reflect this: not too many but also not too few.

[Katana67 2907]

Now all we need is this... (45-rounder)

 

 

And this...

 

 

And the AKs can get some rest for a while.

Edited September 11, 2014 by Katana67

[Cap'n (DayZ) 1827]

Now all we need is this... (40-rounder)

 

 

And this...

 

 

And the AKs can get some rest for a while.

 

But Katanaaaaaa!!! What about my favorite, the Plum Poly AK?

 

 

So sexy, isn't it?

[gibonez 3633]

Now all we need is this... (40-rounder)

 

 

And this...

 

 

And the AKs can get some rest for a while.

 

Yes , yes , yes .

 

The rpk would be a fantastic addition especially if weapon resting and bipods can attach to objects reducing the recoil on the weapons and increasing stability.

 

Hopefully a weight and stamina system is added too so having an rpk has some negatives too.

[Dagwood 680]

I'm more excited about the LRS being removed from the Mosin, the Mosin damage being buffed, and the CR527 becoming compatible with the LRS or some other kind of long range optics. The multitude of assault rifles at this stage of the game does not really add much to gameplay.

A pump shotgun and a scoped hunting rifle on the other hand, would bring some much needed variety.

[gibonez 3633]

I'm more excited about the LRS being removed from the Mosin, the Mosin damage being buffed, and the CR527 becoming compatible with the LRS or some other kind of long range optics. The multitude of assault rifles at this stage of the game does not really add much to gameplay.

A pump shotgun and a scoped hunting rifle on the other hand, would bring some much needed variety.

 

Yea the civilian weapons in the game add alot to the gameplay imo.

 

The pump shotgun I am hoping is not paintable and retains that wonderful rustic look. The skin and model on it is also quite nice looking.

 

[Dagwood 680]

Yea the civilian weapons in the game add alot to the gameplay imo.

The pump shotgun I am hoping is not paintable and retains that wonderful rustic look. The skin and model on it is also quite nice looking.

Do you think the scroll wheel reloading mechanic/feature/system will need to be reworked before the pump is introduced? The reload animation for the shotguns in the mod was awful (exact same as m16).

I think we should have to drag every round into the gun with the shotgun and bolt action rifles with no magazines. Would add a nice wrinkle, and make magazines that much more valuable.

[hombrecz 832]

Yes , yes , yes .

 

The rpk would be a fantastic addition especially if weapon resting and bipods can attach to objects reducing the recoil on the weapons and increasing stability.

 

Hopefully a weight and stamina system is added too so having an rpk has some negatives too.

 

Well RPK should have more sway and be generaly less accurate unless bipod is deployed against some surface.

But yes, it should be heavier...oh I'm so waiting for stamina /  weight system to be added. Also please no more endless turbo sprint.

[chompster 171]

Well RPK should have more sway and be generaly less accurate unless bipod is deployed against some surface.

But yes, it should be heavier...oh I'm so waiting for stamina /  weight system to be added. Also please no more endless turbo sprint.

Sounds like it'll be an inferior AKM then. With interchangeable magazines you'd just see people use 40 round mags on the AKM. Not that everything needs to be balanced, variety is more than welcome. Just sounds so pointless. 

[Katana67 2907]

The pump shotgun I am hoping is not paintable and retains that wonderful rustic look. The skin and model on it is also quite nice looking.

 

 

I mean, you can have your cake and eat it too.

 

You like the "rustic" model of the MP-133? Cool! Don't paint it. That's the whole point of painting weapons, choice.

 

I like my Remington 870, which has black furniture. I'll paint it!

[RoterBallon 68]

Sounds like it'll be an inferior AKM then. With interchangeable magazines you'd just see people use 40 round mags on the AKM. Not that everything needs to be balanced, variety is more than welcome. Just sounds so pointless. 

I think the RPK will be mountable on vehicles ( I think Dean said so - not sure ). So RPK will have it's purpose for fire supriority in a fight / fighting back attacks.

While it is too heavy to carry it around over huge distances it makes you to a "fire support squad mate".  

 

So it will have it's purpose if you are playing in a squad.

[Katana67 2907]

Sounds like it'll be an inferior AKM then. With interchangeable magazines you'd just see people use 40 round mags on the AKM. Not that everything needs to be balanced, variety is more than welcome. Just sounds so pointless. 

 

Not for nothing, but the AKM and RPK-74 use different magazines and calibers.

 

However, it is sort of a moot point given that the AKM already has a 75-round 7.62x39 mag available. And the M4A1 already has 10-60 rounders available.

 

RPK could be more accurate at range as well, as it has a longer barrel. There are plenty of ways to differentiate between the AK-74M/AK-101, AKS-74U, AKM, and RPK/RPK-74.

[Katana67 2907]

I think the RPK will be mountable on vehicles ( I think Dean said so - not sure ). So RPK will have it's purpose for fire supriority in a fight / fighting back attacks.

While it is too heavy to carry it around over huge distances it makes you to a "fire support squad mate".  

 

So it will have it's purpose if you are playing in a squad.

 

They said that about the PKM, not the RPK. I don't think the RPK has been mentioned as of yet.

[RoterBallon 68]

They said that about the PKM, not the RPK. I don't think the RPK has been mentioned as of yet.

Ups, sorry. Almost the same letters :P

[chompster 171]

Not for nothing, but the AKM and RPK-74 use different magazines and calibers.

 

However, it is sort of a moot point given that the AKM already has a 75-round 7.62x39 mag available. And the M4A1 already has 10-60 rounders available.

 

RPK could be more accurate at range as well, as it has a longer barrel. There are plenty of ways to differentiate between the AK-74M/AK-101, AKS-74U, AKM, and RPK/RPK-74.

Well that depends if they even decide to go with the RPK-74 and not the RPK/S(7.62x39)

 

But yeah accuracy would probably be it's only upside, and even then it'd heavily depend on if they even add weapon resting and the ability to deploy bipods in window, low walls and other objects. Otherwise you constantly find yourself on the ground where you could find yourself in grass not seeing shit (while they see you just fine due to render distance limit)

 

Another thing they could do(though a bit hypocritical since we just talked about pointless weapons) is the RPD. Have the RPK-74 with 5.45x39 and the RPD with 7.62x39.

Edited September 11, 2014 by Chompster

[gibonez 3633]

I mean, you can have your cake and eat it too.

 

You like the "rustic" model of the MP-133? Cool! Don't paint it. That's the whole point of painting weapons, choice.

 

I like my Remington 870, which has black furniture. I'll paint it!

 

I suppose you are right.

[stielhandgranate 480]

Could someone post the devblog? For some reason our server here blacklisted the website.

[Deathlove 2286]

Time to party!