Private Shards with 0.49? Features? Price?

[Rauchsauger 94]

As Admins the ability to properly Admin a server is based on the tools we have and need. Most confuse the need with the want.

 

What we NEED is:

Log access

Server settings(Accelerated Time Etc.)

Banning

Whitelisting

Reserved slots

External RCon (would be nice)

 

We DO NOT need:

Teleporting

All seeing map access

Full DB Access

(These are just wants that badmins can just do without)

 

 

Yeah..give admins to much power and it becomes the Wild West. Also.. you don't want everyone playing in their own private heavens..no point on having 1,000,000 servers with only 2 people playing in each of them.

 

 

 

I agree, this pretty much sums it up for what an admin needs to run a good server and keep it safe for the players.

Ohh and i want to add that the RCon is already confirmed :) BEC will be the official RCon for server admins and its a highly effective tool.

 

 

 

 

It is so sad.

I begin to suspect all those "badmin" crying people are afraid that they will get removed - why is that? something to hide?

 

Also what do you want with log access? You do not think that through.

Given log Access it is piss easy to write an external program in pearl or heck even php that will read said log and display player position and whatnot on say the dayzdb map.

So if you are against DB access you should be against log access as well.

 

 

In the mod there are enough servers that created unique gameplay and had good admins that removed the cheaters. You witness someone cheat? Type admin in chat - and boom an

admin ported to your location and handled the situation. (Oh my god the admin ported!!! what a badmin) A server where a kid abused it admin privileges - never visit it again done.

Also those admins used access to the server to create events and such. Which is indefinitely better than everything the devs will come up with. 

When (if) base building is implemented we will stick to one server mostly so just pick one with good admins and you are set.

 

Just my 2 cent - all servers in the past were full access and it worked. So all you crying out loud here are suspect.

Edited September 9, 2014 by Rauchsauger

[GriefSlicer (DayZ) 84]

Just saying I hope that too much power for admins is not a thing in standalone. They just made the mod way to easy with custom military buildings, increased loot, increased vehicles and etc. They should only be able to kick, ban, white-list and have slight control over the time acceleration. I doubt they will be stupid enough to actually give them more permission like control over loot, but if they do to hell with them. It would just ruin the games true experience like the vanilla mod was ruined. 

[GriefSlicer (DayZ) 84]

Segregating the players and badmins who start charging for access to easy loot.  That about sum it up for you?  

 

Here's some examples 

 

Trader safe zones

Refuel/Repair/Rearm Stations

Fully custom loot tables with lots of items not usually seen

Self bloodbags

Custom Loot Table - Frequent Military Loot Spawns

Jets - F35, A10, and more!

Tanks

APCs

LAVs

Apaches and other military choppers

No Weight Limit

Indestructible Bases

No Decay/No Maintenance

the only thing I don't agree with is the no weight limit for DayZ Epoch. For me and everyone I played with agreed that the Weight system just takes away from the fun of the game in many aspects. 

[byrgesen 1341]

It is so sad.

I begin to suspect all those "badmin" crying people are afraid that they will get removed - why is that? something to hide?

 

Also what do you want with log access? You do not think that through.

Given log Access it is piss easy to write an external program in pearl or heck even php that will read said log and display player position and whatnot on say the dayzdb map.

So if you are against DB access you should be against log access as well.

 

 

In the mod there are enough servers that created unique gameplay and had good admins that removed the cheaters. You witness someone cheat? Type admin in chat - and boom an

admin ported to your location and handled the situation. (Oh my god the admin ported!!! what a badmin) A server where a kid abused it admin privileges - never visit it again done.

Also those admins used access to the server to create events and such. Which is indefinitely better than everything the devs will come up with. 

When (if) base building is implemented we will stick to one server mostly so just pick one with good admins and you are set.

 

Just my 2 cent - all servers in the past were full access and it worked. So all you crying out loud here are suspect.

 

You do realize there a tons of logs right? And that logs doesnt log what you describe it logs right?

Ive worked with BE logs for a long time and if they are set up correctly they will only log malicious actions, like teleport, spawning weapons/vehicles.

No location, inventory or health status of any player is shown in the logs at all, so it would be impossible to create a "piss easy" program like you describe. In the mod this "piss easy" program was using the database data, not the log data.

 

What is sad here is that you refuse to believe it didnt work very well in the past, theres tons of evidence on this forum and on reddit to say otherwise.

Like i said there was good admins, who didnt abuse the powers they had, and thats good, but there where more admins who did nothing but abuse powers.

 

Just my 2 cent - all servers in the past were full access and it didnt worked. So you sir, have no idea what you are talking about tbh...

[AP_Norris 1018]

Kicking, banning and whitelist.

Thats it most likely it mate.

 

Give admins to much power and it will turn into the "abuse-fest" we have in the mod.

Thats also why nobody but BI will have database acces.

Hence the name Private-Shard and not Private-Server.

What if you have something that gives the server population a portion of the control, and the admin just has an larger portion of the vote than a random person.

E.g no admin can have a community of just friends that would be very big to get ban vote majority so without solid user base convincing evidence he will only be able to kick somebody into the lobby, where he will be able to defend himself during a server wide vote for temporary ban.

After this ban then BI will check out this guy properly, get his activity from the server and decide whether or not he should be banned permanently from all of DayZ.

He may have a few friends, but ultimately the server won't listen to what he has to say unless there is solid evidence and others to back him up.

Even if the Hacker succeeds in winning the publics trust he will be on very close watch from everybody.

I suggest admins being able to do short wind backs after a ban too.

A system somewhat like that will give the players the majority of the server control and having everybody involved in a ban this means the server admin will have to have a better excuse than "you killed me, I'm going to ban you" the people will be onto that, he will have to have people that you trust backing him up.

Then if BI finds that he's an innocent player he gets unbanned and the server admin gets marked and warned, after 3 marks he looses his ability to administrate servers.

[byrgesen 1341]

What if you have something that gives the server population a portion of the control, and the admin just has an larger portion of the vote than a random person.

E.g no admin can have a community of just friends that would be very big to get ban vote majority so without solid user base convincing evidence he will only be able to kick somebody into the lobby, where he will be able to defend himself during a server wide vote for temporary ban.

After this ban then BI will check out this guy properly, get his activity from the server and decide whether or not he should be banned permanently from all of DayZ.

He may have a few friends, but ultimately the server won't listen to what he has to say unless there is solid evidence and others to back him up.

Even if the Hacker succeeds in winning the publics trust he will be on very close watch from everybody.

I suggest admins being able to do short wind backs after a ban too.

A system somewhat like that will give the players the majority of the server control and having everybody involved in a ban this means the server admin will have to have a better excuse than "you killed me, I'm going to ban you" the people will be onto that, he will have to have people that you trust backing him up.

Then if BI finds that he's an innocent player he gets unbanned and the server admin gets marked and warned, after 3 marks he looses his ability to administrate servers.

 

Its not a bad idea at all, but i doubt something like that will ever happen.

The coding it self might take a while to work out and then BI has to hire people to work as a "look-out" for known cheaters and 1 guy wouldnt be enough for 2.5 million players tbh.

 

It would be better if they made some kind of deal with BE and let them handle this, they have the experience and they have the ban lists and complete log acces.

Vote kicking and vote banning was a part of Arma, so it should be very possible, the system just need adapting.

[HIHBGaming 14]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It is so sad.

I begin to suspect all those "badmin" crying people are afraid that they will get removed - why is that? something to hide?

 

Also what do you want with log access? You do not think that through.

Given log Access it is piss easy to write an external program in pearl or heck even php that will read said log and display player position and whatnot on say the dayzdb map.

So if you are against DB access you should be against log access as well.

 

 

In the mod there are enough servers that created unique gameplay and had good admins that removed the cheaters. You witness someone cheat? Type admin in chat - and boom an

admin ported to your location and handled the situation. (Oh my god the admin ported!!! what a badmin) A server where a kid abused it admin privileges - never visit it again done.

Also those admins used access to the server to create events and such. Which is indefinitely better than everything the devs will come up with. 

When (if) base building is implemented we will stick to one server mostly so just pick one with good admins and you are set.

 

Just my 2 cent - all servers in the past were full access and it worked. So all you crying out loud here are suspect.

 

Removed from what/where? I don't understand this first statement.

 

Log access is the evidence we need in order to properly ban someone, unless you would like us to do it willy nilly. With Video/Audio plus log access to back up our ban, we're safe from the tools who cry Badmin when we do use the ban hammer.

 

DB access is a whole other kettle of fish, whereas you can gear up whomever you like or spawn whatever you like anywhere you like. Can you do this with log access?

 

The want of teleporting is just that, a want. It is definitely not a need to Admin a server and does not serve a real purpose besides trying to look l337.

 

I'd like to know what we're suspect of if we're trying to make it harder for Badmins that have used these tools in the past; that you seem to be a proponent of; to cheat, monetize loadouts or whatever else they can think up.

 

If anything, someone is suspect but it isn't us.

[Rauchsauger 94]

You do realize there a tons of logs right? And that logs doesnt log what you describe it logs right?

Ive worked with BE logs for a long time and if they are set up correctly they will only log malicious actions, like teleport, spawning weapons/vehicles.

No location, inventory or health status of any player is shown in the logs at all, so it would be impossible to create a "piss easy" program like you describe. In the mod this "piss easy" program was using the database data, not the log data.

 

What is sad here is that you refuse to believe it didnt work very well in the past, theres tons of evidence on this forum and on reddit to say otherwise.

Like i said there was good admins, who didnt abuse the powers they had, and thats good, but there where more admins who did nothing but abuse powers.

 

Just my 2 cent - all servers in the past were full access and it didnt worked. So you sir, have no idea what you are talking about tbh...

 

You just talked about server logs. And if I remember correctly (at least in DayZ mod) you could read the DB logs for the update statements for main.pos

You do not play on a server with bad admins. End of story. That server costs a lot of money and will die after a while.

On the other hand there will be less good servers that provide unique experiences (aside from PvP and base building) DayZ gets stale real fast.

 

For the last part - how many server have you had (rented/hosted yourself) in the past?

Also stop pulling number from your ass about good admins and bad admins if all you have is your personal experience. Either back it with data or just let it go.

[Rauchsauger 94]

Removed from what/where? I don't understand this first statement.

 

Log access is the evidence we need in order to properly ban someone, unless you would like us to do it willy nilly. With Video/Audio plus log access to back up our ban, we're safe from the tools who cry Badmin when we do use the ban hammer.

 

DB access is a whole other kettle of fish, whereas you can gear up whomever you like or spawn whatever you like anywhere you like. Can you do this with log access?

 

The want of teleporting is just that, a want. It is definitely not a need to Admin a server and does not serve a real purpose besides trying to look l337.

 

I'd like to know what we're suspect of if we're trying to make it harder for Badmins that have used these tools in the past; that you seem to be a proponent of; to cheat, monetize loadouts or whatever else they can think up.

 

If anything, someone is suspect but it isn't us.

 

Removed from the server.

You do not need logs for banning.

You only do ban if you catch them red handed (far reaching admin tools are good for that).

If it pops up in the BE Logs BE can do the banning (Or do you want to set those regulation like OMG the player has 4 NVG in the backpack that must be cheating so ban - could be could not be)

There are also other reason for bans.

If I have a community of regular players and say one one them is toxic but legit - it is reason enough for me to remove someone from my server that annoys the other players.

Like if you visit my barbecue and start behaving badly I will tell you to behave and if that does not work show you the door.

If someone wants to enforce a french speaking server only it is fine with me...I would not play there but that is their business on their own server.

 

And if you do not like all available servers - rent your own one and be the admin yourself (and dish out the money every month)

(Feeling entitled and not contributing is the worst)

 

All said for a private shard/server where all that happens is restricted to that shard/server.

Public hive should have no admin at all.

[byrgesen 1341]

You just talked about server logs. And if I remember correctly (at least in DayZ mod) you could read the DB logs for the update statements for main.pos

You do not play on a server with bad admins. End of story. That server costs a lot of money and will die after a while.

On the other hand there will be less good servers that provide unique experiences (aside from PvP and base building) DayZ gets stale real fast.

 

For the last part - how many server have you had (rented/hosted yourself) in the past?

Also stop pulling number from your ass about good admins and bad admins if all you have is your personal experience. Either back it with data or just let it go.

 

Im talking about server and BE logs, thats the logs we have to look at. And you remember wrong, there are no DB logs, only logs of what is going on on the server, but it doesnt show peoples location or what theyre inventory look like or theyre health status, in order to see that you need DB acces.

The pos log you are refering to is a BE log called setpos.

Ive hosted several servers, both for Arma II, III and the DayZ mod, so i know what im talking about. Actually i hosted one of the first private HIVES in the mod and it became one of the most popular whitelisted servers, the thread is right here....

Ive also been in several milsim communities, doing server maintenance and making missions for the games.

So get off your high horse and listen to people who actually know what they are talking about mate, im not trying to be a dick, but it sure sounds like you are tbh.

 

Im also not pulling numbers from my ass, im basing these statements on the past years of experience on this forum and on many others related to DayZ.

Its like you dont understand that most admins in the mod where in contact with each other, sharing ban lists, helping with the log outputs and creating anti cheat software for the servers.

 

Just because i find out there are bad admins on a server and doesnt go there, does that mean the other 2.5 million players do the same? no of course not.

So instead of giving admins full control, give them proper tools they cant manipulate for they're own benefit.

 

But you are mixing things up here, nobody is saying you shouldnt have tools, but giving admins the ability to look into the DB, have a magic map of peoples locations and teleport around the map, doesnt make them better admins. Im talking from experience here, its perfectly possible to maintain a great server and a awsome community, without having "magic skills".

You dont need to teleport to a player anyway, all you need to do is look at the logs and viola, it tells you all you need to know.

Saying you dont need logs for banning, is like saying you dont need evidence to convict someone of murder......

[Rauchsauger 94]

Im talking about server and BE logs, thats the logs we have to look at. And you remember wrong, there are no DB logs, only logs of what is going on on the server, but it doesnt show peoples location or what theyre inventory look like or theyre health status, in order to see that you need DB acces.

The pos log you are refering to is a BE log called setpos.

Ive hosted several servers, both for Arma II, III and the DayZ mod, so i know what im talking about. Actually i hosted one of the first private HIVES in the mod and it became one of the most popular whitelisted servers, the thread is right here....

Ive also been in several milsim communities, doing server maintenance and making missions for the games.

So get off your high horse and listen to people who actually know what they are talking about mate, im not trying to be a dick, but it sure sounds like you are tbh.

 

Im also not pulling numbers from my ass, im basing these statements on the past years of experience on this forum and on many others related to DayZ.

Its like you dont understand that most admins in the mod where in contact with each other, sharing ban lists, helping with the log outputs and creating anti cheat software for the servers.

 

Just because i find out there are bad admins on a server and doesnt go there, does that mean the other 2.5 million players do the same? no of course not.

So instead of giving admins full control, give them proper tools they cant manipulate for they're own benefit.

 

But you are mixing things up here, nobody is saying you shouldnt have tools, but giving admins the ability to look into the DB, have a magic map of peoples locations and teleport around the map, doesnt make them better admins. Im talking from experience here, its perfectly possible to maintain a great server and a awsome community, without having "magic skills".

You dont need to teleport to a player anyway, all you need to do is look at the logs and viola, it tells you all you need to know.

Saying you dont need logs for banning, is like saying you dont need evidence to convict someone of murder......

 

So you are telling me the DB server of the DayZ mods  did not write logfiles? I am pretty sure it did. 

Also if you wanted to save progress for example in ArmA 2 OA you had to configure a DB server for the addons like Ed!s Persistentscripts which then wrote logfiles

(But maybe your servers did not do that ^^ how did that work for dayz mod without DB? - high horse?)

 

So yeah you made your point - kind of.

Since we do not know how DB works for private shards (I suspect the same as the others but maybe they changed it) we will not know.

 

BTW the other 2.5 million players can think of their own and they do not need you to decide if they can choose a server for themselves or not...

Edited September 9, 2014 by Rauchsauger

[byrgesen 1341]

So you are telling me the DB server of the DayZ mods  did not write logfiles? I am pretty sure it did. 

Also if you wanted to save progress for example in ArmA 2 OA you had to configure a DB server for the addons like Ed!s Persistentscripts which then wrote logfiles

(But maybe your servers did not do that ^^ how did that work for dayz mod without DB? - high horse?)

 

So yeah you made your point - kind of.

Since we do not know how DB works for private shards (I suspect the same as the others but maybe they changed it) we will not know.

 

BTW the other 2.5 million players can think of their own and they do not need you to decide if they can choose a server for themselves or not...

 

In the mod EVERYTHING was written into the SQL database directly, usually MySQL, not any of the Arma II DB scripts mate. It didnt matter what server package you used (Pwnzor's, Bliss, etc.)

And the DB didnt write logfiles, the server and BE did, and thats where you got the information from, that you needed.

But if you had to find the location of a player, his inventory or health status or what kind of skin he was using, you had to go into the DB, there was no logs to tell you this.

 

And its true we dont know exactly how the DB works in the SA, but i doubt theres been any major changes, because it was a good server/DB system, it just needed a much bigger server to host the DB on, for the public HIVE.

If they kept it the same way, it will be very safe to give people log acces, as long as they dont have acces to the log filters, because the filters are tailored to only write exactly what you want it to.

Thats the beauty of BE, you can make it do what ever you want to, and thats what they are in the progress of doing, but it takes a long time to set them up correctly :)

 

Im not trying to decide anything for the other 2.5 million players, but i think we an both agree, that giving the same tools as in the mod, will lead to a shitstorm of complaints, and that does nobody good in the end imho. It gives more work to BI, who should be focused on development and it gives a ton of false positive bans.

[Rauchsauger 94]

In the mod EVERYTHING was written into the SQL database directly, usually MySQL, not any of the Arma II DB scripts mate. It didnt matter what server package you used (Pwnzor's, Bliss, etc.)

And the DB didnt write logfiles, the server and BE did, and thats where you got the information from, that you needed.

But if you had to find the location of a player, his inventory or health status or what kind of skin he was using, you had to go into the DB, there was no logs to tell you this.

 

And its true we dont know exactly how the DB works in the SA, but i doubt theres been any major changes, because it was a good server/DB system, it just needed a much bigger server to host the DB on, for the public HIVE.

If they kept it the same way, it will be very safe to give people log acces, as long as they dont have acces to the log filters, because the filters are tailored to only write exactly what you want it to.

Thats the beauty of BE, you can make it do what ever you want to, and thats what they are in the progress of doing, but it takes a long time to set them up correctly :)

 

Im not trying to decide anything for the other 2.5 million players, but i think we an both agree, that giving the same tools as in the mod, will lead to a shitstorm of complaints, and that does nobody good in the end imho. It gives more work to BI, who should be focused on development and it gives a ton of false positive bans.

 

I just checked a old instance of epoch servers - update queries are logged in the binlog.

Since there is a replication of sorts from slave (gameserver) to master (hive) in the DayZ SA I suspect binary logging as well.

(If they stuck to the old system and did not create something on their own)

I think there is a major difference between mod and SA -> there are public hives!

So players that are a bit more experienced will go to good, non abusive private shards and everybody else can still fall back to public hive.

Even if there is someone selling loot/vehicles for money on their shard - it stays on that shard only. So just pity the one gullible enough to fall for that.

 

I am saying that as long as a server is private there is no harm done since it does not carry over - and the public hive exists.

Edited September 9, 2014 by Rauchsauger

[byrgesen 1341]

I just checked a old instance of epoch servers - update queries are logged in the binlog.

Since there is a replication of sorts from slave (gameserver) to master (hive) in the DayZ SA I suspect binary logging as well.

(If they stuck to the old system and did not create something on their own)

I think there is a major difference between mod and SA -> there are public hives!

So players that are a bit more experienced will go to good, non abusive private shards and everybody else can still fall back to public hive.

Even if there is someone selling loot/vehicles for money on their shard - it stays on that shard only. So just pity the one gullible enough to fall for that.

 

I am saying that as long as a server is private there is no harm done since it does not carry over - and the public hive exists.

 

Just to clarify, im not talking any mod of the mod, im talking vanilla dayz mod installation of the server package. Epoch, Overpoch and what-ever-poch has most likely done things differently.

And the public HIVE is not "new" to the SA, it was what the mod started with :) But it died out because of the poor level of security in Arma II (cd-key theft) which basicly gave the script kiddies free reigns. Thus whitelisting was created, along with private server packs, which wasnt even allowed or endorsed by BI or Dean in the beginning. It took them several months to actually come out and say it was OK to host a private server.

 

I can almost garantuee you aswell, that BI wont allow admins to sell anything on this game. Why should they allow people to monotize on something they have spend so much time on?

It will be exactly like Arma II and III, mods will be free and the creators will have to chose between different licenses, which allows people to do different things with it, but if people try to make money off it, the mod will get "shutdown", its been seen before many times.

The community is very protective of each other and the work members do, so something like stealing code, making money or just being a dick in general, towards other modders, will be looked down opun.

 

Its also very clear to see what direction BI wants to go with DayZ SA, and its as far away from the mod's mod's as possible and "back to basics" so to speak.

So im very confident BI wont allow people to do what ever they want, because the last time they did this, it turned into a giant clusterfuck.

 

But lets leave it at this, you and I will most likely never agree on this, and thank god its not up to either one of us :)

You gotta love BI for that though, they make what they want and not what people want.

[lol2k345 7]

I still don't see the problem. Not in this game. Perhaps it was different in the mod where you didn't know (?) which server was changed or could suddenly be changed for the worse, but now you could choose to play on a server where that wouldn't be possible and just completely avoid private shard servers, while communities who wants to mod the game to make it more realistic or less realistic and play it their own way could do that. 

 

I don't really see why we who are not against private servers and freedom should be limited by people who just don't want us to be able to do it while it wouldn't affect them in any way unless they wanted it to. To be honest it just sounds like you want old grudges to limit the future. There are solutions, and you don't have to make something illegal before looking at them, thats just sad. 

 

And splitting up the community? What community? This forum? The only reason I am here is to see what new features are being added, and in this example show that not everyone is for limiting servers, other than that we will have our own community.

Edited September 10, 2014 by lol2k345