Private Shards with 0.49? Features? Price?

[grihmmys@gmail.com 23]

As far as i can see the main issue here is that people want to be able to do anything and blindly trust every single admin out there, because they can simply "change server" if admins are abusing.

That in it self is the biggest issue with admin tools, people not carring and just wanting more and more because "i wont abuse".

Well la-di-da, theres 1000's of others who will abuse it, and for that very reason, its not a good idea imho.

 

Its exactly like laws IRL.

We have speeding laws and laws that say you cant kill people because we have to, because some people just doesnt care and cant handle complete freedom, without abusing it.

Same goes for game admins. Giving them complete control can never be a good idea, and the ones who thinks this, are either really dense, will blindly trust anyone on this earth or they will want to abuse the tools....

 

No personal attacks intended, im just abit feed up with people not understanding that tools like that WILL be abused, its enevidiable.

 

If you are dead set on that the tools will be abused, then i can just say sorry that you feel that way, but that´s your opinion. I hope you will be proven wrong.

[byrgesen 1341]

If you are dead set on that the tools will be abused, then i can just say sorry that you feel that way, but that´s your opinion. I hope you will be proven wrong.

 

Its not an opinon mate, its facts.

Admins got these tools in the mod and they where abused.

Sure there was good admins, no doubt, but the bad ones far outweigh them.

 

Im not saying you shouldnt have tools at all, im just saying there should be no tools, which can be abused for the benefit of the admin or someone he knows.

[grihmmys@gmail.com 23]

There should be no tools, which can be abused for the benefit of the admin or someone he knows.

That part i agree on bud! I guess in the end it´s all about details and what one person sees as a possible exploit while the other one sees a way to secure the server more. Let´s hope the "pack" we get is the best possible.

[byrgesen 1341]

That part i agree on bud! I guess in the end it´s all about details and what one person sees as a possible exploit while the other one sees a way to secure the server more. Let´s hope the "pack" we get is the best possible.

 

I think it will be and im quite sure thats the reason why private shards/servers arent a top priority at all.

BI wants to do it right, rather then just do it like Dean did in the mod :)

[grihmmys@gmail.com 23]

I think it will be and im quite sure thats the reason why private shards/servers arent a top priority at all.

BI wants to do it right, rather then just do it like Dean did in the mod :)

Top prio should always be to ensure stability of the servers, remove hacks and exploits etc and ensure a flowing good experience. It´s just good to see that priv shards are worked on and i am so looking forward to finally beginning to play it as a survival experience and deep roleplaying. Lots of potentials in this game no doubt and a lot of happy PS4 players to come  as well =)

[lol2k345 7]

Why not have both? Private Shard and Private Server up for rent? 

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Why not have both? Private Shard and Private Server up for rent? 

Because of the shit storm is caused in the mod.

[byrgesen 1341]

Why not have both? Private Shard and Private Server up for rent? 

 

When (or perhaps more IF) we get a private server setup, it wont be something you rent.

It will be a serverpack you download and install on a dedicated server box, exactly like in the mod.

 

Only time will tell if we ever get private servers, because it will be impossible for BI to maintain any kind of order with it.

Private Shards is the best way to go about it, because it will give people a private server, where they can kick, ban and most likely whitelist, while BI still has complete database control :)

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Oh, to answer the question about pricing, I expect the private shards to be the same price if not more than renting a public shard which is already outrageously expensive.   About $100/month Canadian dollars just for a 40 man server.

[byrgesen 1341]

Oh, to answer the question about pricing, I expect the private shards to be the same price if not more than renting a public shard which is already outrageously expensive.   About $100/month Canadian dollars just for a 40 man server.

 

Agreed.

They kinda have to keep it the same price, or the public hive will get replaced lol.

 

As far as money goes, yes its quite expensive, but i think they did this for one reason only.

To keep non-serious admins and young children away from renting it. Basicly the signal they are sending is "Rent it if you REALLY want it".

Its kinda the same thing as Planetary Annihilation being 70-80$ on steam, during deevelopment, so only serious "testers" would buy into it.

 

I still find it expensive, dont get me wrong, but i think theres a reason for it, because it does NOT cost that much to host a DayZ server tbh.

Edited September 8, 2014 by Byrgesen

[seifeler 52]

Admins got these tools in the mod and they where abused.

Sure there was good admins, no doubt, but the bad ones far outweigh them.

 

I am sure you are right, Byrgesen. I have seen more BADmins than good, caring admins in the mod. But I spent much, much more time on the servers run by the latter. 

 

When the server had a website, it just took a few minutes and a peek into their forums to see if this was a good or a bad server. When the had no site, it took about half an hour watching the side chat to find out. So I don't think it's that difficult to sort out the bad admins and find a good server.

[lol2k345 7]

Must say I don't see the problem of having both, private is private, you can do what you want with all the things, handy for modding if you want to make it your own. Shard is semi-public, you have control of who play there but people who play there can be safe knowing that the playing field is level, and the only things that will change is what is public. If servers at the same time are marked as Private/Shard, I don't see the problem, and everyone is happy.

 

Not sure why I am explaining why having both is a real alternative, to me its pretty simple, and I don't see any downsides.

[harteman 155]

xcghk

Edited September 8, 2014 by harteman

[byrgesen 1341]

I am sure you are right, Byrgesen. I have seen more BADmins than good, caring admins in the mod. But I spent much, much more time on the servers run by the latter. 

 

When the server had a website, it just took a few minutes and a peek into their forums to see if this was a good or a bad server. When the had no site, it took about half an hour watching the side chat to find out. So I don't think it's that difficult to sort out the bad admins and find a good server.

 

So did i mate, nobody wants to be on a server with a bad admin, except his "clan" or "best buds" ofc....

 

But i still think its a matter of not giving them tools they can abuse, insted of giving them very powerful tools and trusting them.

People shouldnt have to go through 10 different servers, just because admins are making they're lives misserable imho. Especially now that we dont have a sidechat anymore.

 

I hope BI can find the middle ground and give admins great tools to help them manage the server, while at the same time not giving them anything they can use for they're benefit :)

 

Must say I don't see the problem of having both, private is private, you can do what you want with all the things, handy for modding if you want to make it your own. Shard is semi-public, you have control of who play there but people who play there can be safe knowing that the playing field is level, and the only things that will change is what is public. If servers at the same time are marked as Private/Shard, I don't see the problem, and everyone is happy.

 

Not sure why I am explaining why having both is a real alternative, to me its pretty simple, and I don't see any downsides.

 

Well. We dont actually know if BI are planning to release the server files for private servers.

But if you dont see any downsides to having complete acces to ALL files, logs and the complete database, you are ignorant mate. Pure and simple.

 

Its like making a rule that says you can only drive 80km/h on this road, unless you get this "item" and then you can drive however you want.

Complete freedom comes with the biggest downside of all, personal responsibility, and most people cant handle that imho.

Edited September 8, 2014 by Byrgesen

[lol2k345 7]

Why, what are they going to do with it? They can only affect their own server, whats wrong with that? If you don't like it, why not play on a shard server? Why limit the whole player mass, because some people don't know how to choose?

 

I don't like comparisons, because they are in most cases wrong, and people who use them just want to argue, but OK:

 

They are not driving on the same road (hive). One of them is driving on a public road (shard in public hive) where certain rules apply to make sure that everyone has a level playing field, while the other has bought him self his own race track (private hive) because he wants to drive faster and do things differently. The one who has bought him self a private race track lets other people come and race on his track with him, and they all know that only his rules go here, be they for good or worse, because he pays for the track, and there is a sign (Private Hive in server list) before you enter the server that makes you aware of this fact. Now you as a guest on this server don't like how the people who own the race track drive, your only option then is to leave and not come back, which is a pretty sound deal seeing that you didn't have to pay the owners to use their track. No one is harmed.

 

Where is the problem?

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Where is the problem?

Segregating the players and badmins who start charging for access to easy loot.  That about sum it up for you?  

 

Here's some examples 

 

Trader safe zones

Refuel/Repair/Rearm Stations

Fully custom loot tables with lots of items not usually seen

Self bloodbags

Custom Loot Table - Frequent Military Loot Spawns

Jets - F35, A10, and more!

Tanks

APCs

LAVs

Apaches and other military choppers

No Weight Limit

Indestructible Bases

No Decay/No Maintenance

[byrgesen 1341]

 

Where is the problem?

 

Its clear to hear that you werent around when the mod started mate.

 

Like Caboose stated, there was a HUGE problem with people charging money for acces to cheap loot, and at the same time changing the game around to make it more "Arma".

I completely understand that each admin will run the server differently, but that doesnt justify changing the game away from the core concept BI has worked on and put time and money into.

Just because you buy a game, doesnt give you the right to change the game core mechanics, and thats what will happen if you give people complete control.

 

Doing that in a free mod, is "normal" as it was free and not controlled in any way, but it didnt stop people from actually trying to make money off of it.

But can you please point me to a game, which you have to buy, that gives people complete control and let them change the core mechanics of the game, without any kinds of restrictions? Because ive never heard of it before.

 

I still find it disturbing that you really want people with private shards, to do what ever they want. It will break up the community, exactly like it did in the mod, and it will turn this game into something its not, exactly like it did in the mod.

BI should give admins great tools, theres no doubt about it, but it doesnt matter if its a public server or a private shard, there has to be some basic rules in place, to keep the game close to the vision they have.

Just because its a private shard, should not give you the right to alter loot tables, change amount of vehicles, teleport all over the map or manipulate the database to spawn items/vehicles.

Nothing good will ever come from that, and there will be more people abusing these tools, then actually using them for the good of the community and the game, just like we saw in the mod.

[HIHBGaming 14]

As Admins the ability to properly Admin a server is based on the tools we have and need. Most confuse the need with the want.

 

What we NEED is:

Log access

Server settings(Accelerated Time Etc.)

Banning

Whitelisting

Reserved slots

External RCon (would be nice)

 

We DO NOT need:

Teleporting

All seeing map access

Full DB Access

(These are just wants that badmins can just do without)

[Rauchsauger 94]

No...... It will not have a good outcome, history has shown that giving admins complete control is a bad idea.

Give them tools to run they're server with, but dont give them acces to the database, they dont need that.

 

Having the ability to ban, kick and whitelist a server, is more then enough to run a good community and a safe server with.

 

That is crap. First of all if it is private it is limited to that server/shard nobody needs to play there if they don't want to.

Then this whole BS about just renting the servers and not administer them is relatively new.

All servers I had for CS, CSS, BF2, L4D, L4D2 etc. had full access.

 

Nevertheless I canceled my Dayz server because a) there are enough hardcore servers for me to play on b ) I could not do shit with it aside from broadcasting number codes and hints to try to create some interesting gameplay and last but not least because I am appalled by what I read from some users here and even the slim chance that I could provide them with a service pisses me off.

 

Edited September 9, 2014 by Rauchsauger

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

 the slim chance that I could provide them with a service pisses me off.

You aren't providing anyone a service.  The GSP provided you a service.

[seifeler 52]

I very much understand the concerns of players who experienced the mod. I was around at early stages of the mod and I saw it change. At some point more and more servers with *extra loot*, a lot of extra vehicles and other stuff appeared. Some servers were actually charging money so you could spawn with military gear. 

While I don't have a problem with that, I understand players don't want to be playing alone on the pure vanilla servers while everyone else is on the extra-loot-and-vehicles-server. 

 

My opinion is, admins don't need access to server files and database. They shouldn't be able to alter loot tables or increase the number of vehicles.

I already stated what I would need as an admin:

- access the logs (maybe not full access, but enough to enforce their gameplay rules - as stated in the above mentioned devlog from August 1)
- change server settings (accelerated time, PvE/PvP)
- teleport (getting players unstuck, setting up events, finding hackers/dupers/glitchers)
- see the admin map (to catch hackers who teleport/speedhack)

If you like to know why I would like to have these features and what I want to do with it, visit: http://dayzelysium.com/

 

Now my suggestion, to prevent abuse: After renting the Private Shard, admins must apply for those features with a solid written concept at BI. They should be paying for the time they (BI) have to review the application (>100€/$). I am sure a few serious server owners will be interested and willing to go through this process. If there is abuse, they get their admin rights taken from them and they cannot apply a second time. 

 

What do you think about that?

Edited September 9, 2014 by Kassander

[Cpanther 221]

As Admins the ability to properly Admin a server is based on the tools we have and need. Most confuse the need with the want.

 

What we NEED is:

Log access

Server settings(Accelerated Time Etc.)

Banning

Whitelisting

Reserved slots

External RCon (would be nice)

 

We DO NOT need:

Teleporting

All seeing map access

Full DB Access

(These are just wants that badmins can just do without)

Yeah..give admins to much power and it becomes the Wild West. Also.. you don't want everyone playing in their own private heavens..no point on having 1,000,000 servers with only 2 people playing in each of them.

[Rauchsauger 94]

You aren't providing anyone a service.  The GSP provided you a service.

 

You stay in your world.

I like it here in what I call the real world - it is sane and tranquil so do not come over and ruin it please.

[byrgesen 1341]

That is crap. First of all if it is private it is limited to that server/shard nobody needs to play there if they don't want to.

Then this whole BS about just renting the servers and not administer them is relatively new.

All servers I had for CS, CSS, BF2, L4D, L4D2 etc. had full access.

 

Nevertheless I canceled my Dayz server because a) there are enough hardcore servers for me to play on B) I could not do shit with it aside from broadcasting number codes and hints to try to create some interesting gameplay and last but not least because I am appalled by what I read from some users here and even the slim chance that I could provide them with a service pisses me off.

 

Again with the "you dont need to play here if you dont want to".....

Look, its not gonna fix anything to give people full acces and let admins run-amok and ruin the game for us players.

Again, we saw this in the mod, the amount of bad admins was staggering, it was crazy and it took a VERY long time to find a somewhat decend server.

We dont need this here, because it will break the game, exactly like it did in the mod.

 

I also want to add, theres a giant difference between the Shooters you mention and DayZ. What happens if an admin kills you in CS? you start with the same gear. Its not a punishment at all, the game is designed so deaths isnt a giant problem for the player. On top of that, most sessions in theese games take very little time, DayZ is a persistant open world game, nothing like CS, L4D or BF, at all, and because of that, we cant give the same tools to the admins, because it has a much higher degree of consequence on the players.

 

If you had taken your time to read the thread, you would see that nobody is saying the admins should not have tools. Of course they should. But giving them the same tools like we saw in the mod or in games like CD, L4D or BF, is a no go, because if the giant impact it will have on the players.

Just because you know how to conduct yourself as an admin, and run a good server, doesnt mean the other 2.5 million players in this game does.

 

 

As Admins the ability to properly Admin a server is based on the tools we have and need. Most confuse the need with the want.

 

What we NEED is:

Log access

Server settings(Accelerated Time Etc.)

Banning

Whitelisting

Reserved slots

External RCon (would be nice)

 

We DO NOT need:

Teleporting

All seeing map access

Full DB Access

(These are just wants that badmins can just do without)

 

I agree, this pretty much sums it up for what an admin needs to run a good server and keep it safe for the players.

Ohh and i want to add that the RCon is already confirmed :) BEC will be the official RCon for server admins and its a highly effective tool.

 

 

I very much understand the concerns of players who experienced the mod. I was around at early stages of the mod and I saw it change. At some point more and more servers with *extra loot*, a lot of extra vehicles and other stuff appeared. Some servers were actually charging money so you could spawn with military gear. 

While I don't have a problem with that, I understand players don't want to be playing alone on the pure vanilla servers while everyone else is on the extra-loot-and-vehicles-server. 

 

My opinion is, admins don't need access to server files and database. They shouldn't be able to alter loot tables or increase the number of vehicles.

I already stated what I would need as an admin:

If you like to know why I would like to have these features and what I want to do with it, visit: http://dayzelysium.com/

 

Now my suggestion, to prevent abuse: After renting the Private Shard, admins must apply for those features with a solid written concept at BI. They should be paying for the time they (BI) have to review the application (>100€/$). I am sure a few serious server owners will be interested and willing to go through this process. If there is abuse, they get their admin rights taken from them and they cannot apply a second time. 

 

What do you think about that?

 

 

I still dont agree that admins should have the ability to Teleport, but lets leave it at that hehe, we can keep on going for ever :)

 

As far as your suggestion goes, i think its a great idea to have some kind of EULA for admins to sign, so Bohemia actually has a leverage and the ability to take away a server quickly. But the "problem" is that in the current server system, BI has no control over the servers at all. The GSP is doing everything, even handling server reports.

Im not sure its a good thing, but it definitely pushes the responsibility away from BI, thats for sure.

Edited September 9, 2014 by Byrgesen

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

You stay in your world.

I like it here in what I call the real world - it is sane and tranquil so do not come over and ruin it please.

What real world?  You gonna start charging people money to play on your server?  That would be providing a service.  Maybe you need to try and get back to the real world