An Easy Way to Explain Alpha - my favorite topic

[RAM-bo4250 213]

I made an analogy on one of my posts and I would like to share it.

 

Suppose you're a frying pan maker. You obtain the metal. You then make a blank for each seperate frying pan. It is not a frying pan but it has promise to be one. You might place this blank on a cooking source and fry up some bacon or fry a steak, etc.

But it's not a frying pan yet. This is what Dayz Alpha is. A blank. It's being sculpted into shape but it's not the frying pan you designed yet.

 

Now let's explore criticism at this point in time. There's a panel that was enacted to further the creative process. Let's explore the reasonable and the not so reasonable. First off you might get kicked from the panel suggesting this pan be put in a microwave. After all it's a frying pan not a microwaveable dish. Making suggestions this far out is unreasonable.

 

I am basing my reasonableness on an ordinary plain view most people could find as reasonable. I said most not every.

I have also had to use this type of judgement in my career.

 

Saying - I want this pan to be green - reasonable.

Saying - I want this pan to have a non-stick surface - reasonable.

Saying - Hey, the pan is way too thin - it's not going to be good. It's going to burn things. Or too thick, it's going to take too long to cook.

 

The design will be worked and tweaked until as near a solid foundation can be obtained. It may even take a few experiments that are thrown out and back to the drawing board. This is where Dayz is at the moment (I believe and the ordinary guy believes).

 

Let's throw a few things out there that are unreasonable. Remember we are talking about the blank - Alpha.

Saying - Hey, I can't put water in it, it runs out. - unreasonable. The future and the panel decides what the volume will be.

Saying - I can't pick it up, it has no handle - unreasonable.

 

Now comes the outlandish, over-the-top, unacceptable period type of criticism.

Saying - this pan is a POS, it has no handle. - kicked from panel

Saying - the maker is a retard this thing is never gonna be a frying pan - kicked from panel

As an investor in the frying pan, saying - That fucka just stole our money and it's not a frying pan or now they have my money and now they are gonna screw me by not finishing it - kicked from panel and sued for libel. 

 

Technically, Dayz is not a game. It's a blank. They allowed us to be on the development panel and/or be investors in a promising product. Investors take risks based on research and trends. Each go into it knowing the possibilities. If we believe that the process is taking too long we don't invest in that company again. We don't use the product or recommend it. If it's way over the top and obviously a scam we take legal action. Not following the timeline you have in your head is not over the top, especially since the process was fully explained. Are other frying pan companies better than mine or make products quicker? Maybe.

 

Think about this too. Dayz is a blank of a frying pan. Yet millions are using it and enjoying it anyway. Thousands are streaming and viewing it. Imagine what the frying pan will do when it is actually finished.

 

 

 

[Richard III in Leicester 200]

Bravo Rambo.

 

(PS I like my frying pan with an ACOG attached.)

[hothtimeblues 128]

I made an analogy on one of my posts and I would like to share it.

Suppose you're a frying pan maker. You obtain the metal. You then make a blank for each seperate frying pan. It is not a frying pan but it has promise to be one. You might place this blank on a cooking source and fry up some bacon or fry a steak, etc.

But it's not a frying pan yet. This is what Dayz Alpha is. A blank. It's being sculpted into shape but it's not the frying pan you designed yet.

Now let's explore criticism at this point in time. There's a panel that was enacted to further the creative process. Let's explore the reasonable and the not so reasonable. First off you might get kicked from the panel suggesting this pan be put in a microwave. After all it's a frying pan not a microwaveable dish. Making suggestions this far out is unreasonable.

I am basing my reasonableness on an ordinary plain view most people could find as reasonable. I said most not every.

I have also had to use this type of judgement in my career.

Saying - I want this pan to be green - reasonable.

Saying - I want this pan to have a non-stick surface - reasonable.

Saying - Hey, the pan is way too thin - it's not going to be good. It's going to burn things. Or too thick, it's going to take too long to cook.

The design will be worked and tweaked until as near a solid foundation can be obtained. It may even take a few experiments that are thrown out and back to the drawing board. This is where Dayz is at the moment (I believe and the ordinary guy believes).

Let's throw a few things out there that are unreasonable. Remember we are talking about the blank - Alpha.

Saying - Hey, I can't put water in it, it runs out. - unreasonable. The future and the panel decides what the volume will be.

Saying - I can't pick it up, it has no handle - unreasonable.

Now comes the outlandish, over-the-top, unacceptable period type of criticism.

Saying - this pan is a POS, it has no handle. - kicked from panel

Saying - the maker is a retard this thing is never gonna be a frying pan - kicked from panel

As an investor in the frying pan, saying - That fucka just stole our money and it's not a frying pan or now they have my money and now they are gonna screw me by not finishing it - kicked from panel and sued for libel.

Technically, Dayz is not a game. It's a blank. They allowed us to be on the development panel and/or be investors in a promising product. Investors take risks based on research and trends. Each go into it knowing the possibilities. If we believe that the process is taking too long we don't invest in that company again. We don't use the product or recommend it. If it's way over the top and obviously a scam we take legal action. Not following the timeline you have in your head is not over the top, especially since the process was fully explained. Are other frying pan companies better than mine or make products quicker? Maybe.

Think about this too. Dayz is a blank of a frying pan. Yet millions are using it and enjoying it anyway. Thousands are streaming and viewing it. Imagine what the frying pan will do when it is actually finished.

I see your point. I myself have been too impatient and judgemental about the progress.

The reason people worry about the game though is a few little things that could mean big problems in the final release.

1. Has the huge hacking problem in Dayz mod and stand alone alpha been getting worse because they don't have time to fix it yet as you say or because they don't know how to. There is no way to know for sure that they want to fix it or know how until later. So I guess this is where I have to be patient for the beta and release.

2. Did the fact that they only recently decided to rebuild the engine mean instead of before the launch of Alpha mean they were unaware of the limitations of it and the scope of their concept for release or they simply just never announced earlier that they would have to rebuild the engine.

These 2 issues can cast some doubt to people about the final release. Anyone who does not worry about the game being finished correctly after knowing these two issues has a lot of faith.

Edited September 5, 2014 by hothtimeblues

[☣BioHaze☣ 7337]

I love my cast iron pan.

 

I could live out of it with a 2 prong fork and a steak knife.

 

Also this,

 

 

and I liked your analogy.

[ChainReactor 922]

2. Did the fact that they only recently decided to rebuild the engine mean instead of before the launch of Alpha mean they were unaware of the limitations of it and the scope of their concept for release or they simply just never announced earlier that they would have to rebuild the engine.

 

Recently?

 

 

"Put simply, DayZ Standalone isn’t here because we had the chance to go from making a game that was just the mod improved slightly, packaged simply, and sold - to actually redeveloping the engine and making the game the way we all dreamed it could be. This blew any initial plans we had dictated to pieces.

Dean Hall, January 2013.

 

http://steamcommunity.com/app/221100/discussions/0/38596748405583680/#c38596748424057970

[slim_pikins 30]

Redit tough me Alpha is -- I spent £20 on this pan and you haven't made included any sausages!! I mean WTF pan engineers now you have 75 employees you should be able to put a string of sausages together you lazy *insert multiple expletives" 500 hours cooking and not even a saucepan to show for it what a rip off I want my money back!!

[RAM-bo4250 213]

I see your point. I myself have been too impatient and judgemental about the progress.

The reason people worry about the game though is a few little things that could mean big problems in the final release.

1. Has the huge hacking problem in Dayz mod and stand alone alpha been getting worse because they don't have time to fix it yet as you say or because they don't know how to. There is no way to know for sure that they want to fix it or know how until later. So I guess this is where I have to be patient for the beta and release.

2. Did the fact that they only recently decided to rebuild the engine mean instead of before the launch of Alpha mean they were unaware of the limitations of it and the scope of their concept for release or they simply just never announced earlier that they would have to rebuild the engine.

These 2 issues can cast some doubt to people about the final release. Anyone who does not worry about the game being finished correctly after knowing these two issues has a lot of faith.

Hothtimeblues, I appreciate your attitude. This is constructive talk. I don't have the answers to these concerns because to be honest I have no clue what they are or aren't working on. But I'll go with it will probably be fixed sooner or later as BI's reputation is on the line. They seem to be a reasonably good company that puts quality products out. That's my opinion of course. A company that came out with a product that came out with a mod that for the first time in my life made me want to play a game online. I'm not joking. I never wanted to play a multiplayer game before Dayz.

[RAM-bo4250 213]

I love my cast iron pan.

 

I could live out of it with a 2 prong fork and a steak knife.

 

Also this,

 

 

and I liked your analogy.

That was freaking hilarious. Thanks.

[blunce 991]

How does this community not understand what "Alpha" means yet?

 

BI strongly advised us to not by this game.

 

Now I'm not saying that anyone is complaining in this particular thread, but people have no right in doing so.

[Richard III in Leicester 200]

 A company that came out with a product that came out with a mod that for the first time in my life made me want to play a game online. I'm not joking. I never wanted to play a multiplayer game before Dayz.

 

UO and Quake, they were the last games I'd played more than 10 mins of online as well so I can understand exactly what you're saying.

Those were the days of Voodoo 3DFX and 16MB of video RAM hahaah wow ol times. 

 

Edit - I forgot the Diablos

Edited September 5, 2014 by Richard III in Leicester

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

As someone who has worked in the blue printing industry I'll put my take in on the game development process.  Companies will usually have a designer come up with a design idea, "a post apocalypse zombie game".  Now they need the plans.  This is known as ASME (Arhitectural, Structural, Mechanical and Electrical).  You start with the architectural(engine) which is the mold of what you are designing.  After you create the field of what your are designing you start building the structure (the meat and bones).  During this process you can start adding some of the mechanical (game play) but you can't add more if the the structure is not there.  The electrical which will get everything operating will also happen during this process but again you need a full structure before any of this is usefull. 

 

The point is you cannot fix problems without the structure being in place before hand.  Also, I'm no architect or engineer but this is the basics of it.

Edited September 5, 2014 by Caboose187

[chepaco3290 59]

OP,

 

The concern a lot of people have is that after 1 year of mod development, 9 months of SA development, and 60 freaking million dollars in sales, don’t you think we should have moved on past the crude foundational stage? So much time and money has been spent in developing this “frying pan” that it shouldn’t still be splashing hot grease all over you when you try to use it, and there shouldn’t be large gaping holes in the middle of the “blank” that leak flammable liquids all over your gas stove.

 

Just because it is an Alpha doesn’t mean it can do no wrong. If it does wrong, it’s going to be called out on it. That’s just the nature of this business, so it’s time to put big boy pants on.

 

It’s obvious that you love this game…you darn near worship it on these forums. But others who do not feel quite the same as you, and who voice their opinions about the game’s faults and failures, are not “unreasonable” as you say. And you’d be wise to open your own eyes to its failures, because worshiping it does not improve it one bit. 

Edited September 5, 2014 by Chepaco

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Just because it is an Alpha doesn’t mean it can do no wrong. If it does wrong, it’s going to be called out on it. That’s just the nature of this business, so it’s time to put big boy pants on.

Did you not read the disclaimer?  It clearly tells you that the game can do you wrong and may not function properly.  So take your diaper off and get into your big boy pants yourself.

[RAM-bo4250 213]

This is why I have faith that BI will not only finish the game but it will probably be awesome as well. It is not exactly a blind faith either.

 

I play a flight simulator that I almost exclusively play. Falcon 4.0. I love it. With it getting on in years a few ambitious people decided to develope another flight sim called Fighter-Ops. It sounded awsesome. They even sold a place on a special forum if you wanted to help bring the game along. I know a lot of people signed on and paid their money. I didn't. The game never got off the ground. Every now and then they threw bones to their clients like pictures and graphics and stuff. BI does not act like this. Although progress may seem slow there is on-going work and the devs are in communication almost every day. Definitely, weekly.

 

Another series of games I like. Fallout. New Vegas has now been out for quite awhile yet it is unknown whether there is a new game coming. There are rumours of Fallout 4. But no definite word. Is it in development? Don't know. Alphas as past history shows is that this phase of game development is usually done behind closed doors. No public participation except by a chosen few.

 

 

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Alphas as past history shows is that this phase of game development is usually done behind closed doors. No public participation except by a chosen few.

and with good reason as this community shows why.

[RAM-bo4250 213]

OP,

 

The concern a lot of people have is that after 1 year of mod development, 9 months of SA development, and 60 freaking million dollars in sales, don’t you think we should have moved on past the crude foundational stage? So much time and money has been spent in developing this “frying pan” that it shouldn’t still be splashing hot grease all over you when you try to use it, and there shouldn’t be large gaping holes in the middle of the “blank” that leak flammable liquids all over your gas stove.

 

Just because it is an Alpha doesn’t mean it can do no wrong. If it does wrong, it’s going to be called out on it. That’s just the nature of this business, so it’s time to put big boy pants on.

 

It’s obvious that you love this game…you darn near worship it on these forums. But others who do not feel quite the same as you, and who voice their opinions about the game’s faults and failures, are not “unreasonable” as you say. And you’d be wise to open your own eyes to its failures, because worshiping it does not improve it one bit. 

Chepaco, you shouldn't be splashing hot grease on yourself because you shouldn't be putting hot grease in it in the first place. It's a blank. A promise of a frying pan. Realize what is before you. That is what my OP is all about. It is a blank. It can do no wrong because it's a blank. When it's a frying pan and it spills grease over you, then complain. I never said there was "nothing" wrong with the game. There is a lot wrong with it, now. Of course there is. it's a blank. I just choose to realize what's before me. And sooooooo many other people as well. How can you rightly judge a product that is not even a product yet. I don't worship Dayz, Ok maybe I do, but that's only because it caused me to leave my comfort zone and I was rewarded for doing so.

    I want this game finished yesterday. But that's not possible and I won't live under an illusion. It's a blank until it's not a blank. I just choose patience.

[chepaco3290 59]

Did you not read the disclaimer?  It clearly tells you that the game can do you wrong and may not function properly.  So take your diaper off and get into your big boy pants yourself.

 

Take a chill pill homer.

 

I never said that an Alpha has to be perfect, did I? I never said that I expected it to NOT do wrong, did I? Of course it will not function properly all the time, because yes is IS an Alpha. All I said is that its faults and failures shouldn't be ignored and overlooked just because it's an Alpha. People are allowed to voice their concerns about the faults and failures without being labeled "unreasonable" because they're very reasonable, and they don't have their head stuck in the sand pretending like the problems around them don't exist. 

[chepaco3290 59]

It can do no wrong because it's a blank. 

 

See, this is the crux of the issue. You're blindly following this product giving absolutely no thought to its shortcomings.

 

As a father, I raise my children knowing full well they will not be perfect at a young age. They're going to grow up and mature and eventually become the person I desire them to be; yet in the early stages, they will mess up. It is my responsibility to reprimand them and show them that their mistakes do not benefit them. The WORSE parent in the world is the one who spoils their child and smothers them with compliments. 

 

It is your responsibility as a paid member of this Early Access Game to reprimand them when they make mistakes...not to pad their wallets and say "Aw, sweetheart, it's ok, you can do no wrong my queen."

[RAM-bo4250 213]

Take a chill pill homer.

 

I never said that an Alpha has to be perfect, did I? I never said that I expected it to NOT do wrong, did I? Of course it will not function properly all the time, because yes is IS an Alpha. All I said is that its faults and failures shouldn't be ignored and overlooked just because it's an Alpha. People are allowed to voice their concerns about the faults and failures without being labeled "unreasonable" because they're very reasonable, and they don't have their head stuck in the sand pretending like the problems around them don't exist. 

Chepaco I don't know how many times I can say this. There are lots and lots and lots of things wrong. If it stopped development right now I probably wouldn't play it much longer. But I choose to see it for what it is, a blank. You can't expect a blank to behave as a frying pan no matter how many complaints you put on it. Saying to the blank, "you have no handle" is unreasonable to me. Of course it has no handle. It's a blank.

[hothtimeblues 128]

Recently?

Dean Hall, January 2013.

http://steamcommunity.com/app/221100/discussions/0/38596748405583680/#c38596748424057970

So if they knew they would have to rebuild the egine 8 months ago.... why have we not seen any of it? If we did there would be less desync, better FPS in towns, better control response... etc, etc. The only core work we have seen is adding navmesh ontop of the same engine from 2012 mod.

Am I wrong? Which I seriously could be but I have not noticed any improvements to the core. Now, if they have been working on rebuilding the engine and we just have not seen any of that yet, then that would explain my misunderstanding. So perhaps they have a game build with the modified engine that just is not in any updates yet. Is this the case?

[chepaco3290 59]

 You can't expect a blank to behave as a frying pan no matter how many complaints you put on it. 

 

Do you want the blank to eventually become a frying pan? Well, in order for this to happen, they need constructive feedback, not blind followers. 

[WhiteZero 72]

Do you want the blank to eventually become a frying pan? Well, in order for this to happen, they need constructive feedback, not blind followers. 

Correct, you need constructive feedback. It's just a pity most of the "feedback" I see on DayZ is complaining about the same known issues or calling the Devs lazy. Maybe 20% of the feedback I see is constructive.

[chepaco3290 59]

So if they knew they would have to rebuild the egine 8 months ago.... why have we not seen any of it? If we did there would be less desync, better FPS in towns, better control response... etc, etc. The only core work we have seen is adding navmesh ontop of the same engine from 2012 mod.

Am I wrong? Which I seriously could be but I have not noticed any improvements to the core. Now, if they have been working on rebuilding the engine and we just have not seen any of that yet, then that would explain my misunderstanding. So perhaps they have a game build with the modified engine that just is not in any updates yet. Is this the case?

 

Every once in a while you'll see an "engine" tweak in the release notes of an update, but so far it's all been behind-the-scenes work that has not produced a very noticeable change yet...at least I personally haven't noticed anything. Others may have.

[RAM-bo4250 213]

See, this is the crux of the issue. You're blindly following this product giving absolutely no thought to its shortcomings.

 

As a father, I raise my children knowing full well they will not be perfect at a young age. They're going to grow up and mature and eventually become the person I desire them to be; yet in the early stages, they will mess up. It is my responsibility to reprimand them and show them that their mistakes do not benefit them. The WORSE parent in the world is the one who spoils their child and smothers them with compliments. 

 

It is your responsibility as a paid member of this Early Access Game to reprimand them when they make mistakes...not to pad their wallets and say "Aw, sweetheart, it's ok, you can do no wrong my queen."

Let me ask you something. Do you say to your children (if they aren't old enough yet), "hey you need to learn to drive." No, you  don't because it's not age appropiate. At this stage of development some of the things you are complaining about are not age appropriate. And it isn't my responsibility, whether or not I paid, to "reprimand", anybody. You get a burger at McDonald's and it isn't what you ordered, it is your responsibilty to reprimand that person? No, it's their bosses responsibilty. I don't follow anything blindly as you put it. I have put in bug reports. I, unlike you, know exactly what is before me and know the appropriate age the product is in. 

[hothtimeblues 128]

Then if you are correct, they really should have just purchased a ready made engine and just have artists add similar models. Because if this is the engine rebuild to date after 8 months than we are in for a very long haul my friends.