some ideas for realistic-ness

[d.walker43 196]

Hi there, im simply wondering/suggesting how realistic certain things in DayZ should be. I have read others posts and such, and I have decided to combine it all into 1 post. I think these such as fixing cars, gun maintaining, survival/hunting tactics, etc. should be made as close to real life as possible. By this, I mean like when you field strip a gun, the parts, order of assembly, etc. should be nearly identical to its real life counterpart. I say this, because I know that in a real zombie scenario, the survivors would be the types of people who knew things about guns, cars, hunting, etc. I think having real life knowledge of things such as these should be able to give you a slight advantage in game. I have several reasons for these thoughts.

 

1: Everyone talks about how the game should be as realistic as possible. I agree with this, the game even describes itself as a realistic zombie survival simulator. For example, if I know how to take apart a .22 in real life, if I would need to in-game I should be able to do it just like I would in real life. However, if I were a city boy that didn't know anything about guns, and in the zombie apocalypse my gun jammed, I would be screwed. I don't think that these players should magically be able to do this with the click of a button in-game. One solution suggested was to have mandatory manuals that would enable you to do these actions.

 

2: that being said, I think that field stripping a gun should be made as realistic as possible. Being an outdoorsman myself, I actually know how to take apart some guns In real life. I know I would be very frustrated if I had to drop a gun because I couldn't do something in-game when I already know how to do it in real life. I shouldn't need an in-game manual to magically give me the ability to do something I know how to do anyway. Same goes for getting a vehicle running. I know small engines very well, so if I found a non-running ATV in game and I could identify what is wrong with it, I should be able to attempt (and hopefully succeed) at getting it running without needing a magical book. The book would be useful because You could look to it for reference, but it shouldn't be required.

 

I understand that people will complain "the casuals wouldn't know what to do" and such, but that shouldn't matter. Make it as realistic as possible, so having prior knowledge on things such as maintaining a gun and how an engine works and basic survival skills gives you a slight advantage in-game.

 

I also understand that what I am suggesting might seem very hard to implement, however in reality it would not be. Allow me to use getting an ATV running as an example. Be able to inspect the engine, and get a simple, broad message saying what may be wrong with it. Have pieces laying around, such as spark plugs, carbeurators, piston heads and rings, and such. If you can determine what the problem is with the engine, this is where some prior knowledge will help. If you know that the gas is not igniting, you would know to try a new spark plug. In reality, it would not be impossible to make it at least somewhat realistic in-game. Thank you for your time, and please comment what you think of my ideas below.

Edited August 29, 2014 by d.walker43

[rybec 339]

I've said a couple times before that I'd enjoy bush-knowledge to give a bit of an upper hand with the woods/survival in the game.

Reading through your post of the weapons I could only think of WoG.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRK2qdtd53Y

[The Aquatic Land Walrus 565]

I don't exactly think that not having a gun because it jams is a "slight" disadvantage. It fucking makes or breaks the game.

[nettles 396]

I would love it if guns jammed realistically in this game.  It would entirely eliminate my '12-year-olds running around like this is CoD' problem.

[d.walker43 196]

I don't exactly think that not having a gun because it jams is a "slight" disadvantage. It fucking makes or breaks the game.

In real life, if your gun jammed, and you didn't know what to do, I agree, it might "fucking make or break" your situation. Remember guns are going to be made rarer, so it may be very common to see players using melee weapons or low-tech weapons such as bows and crossbows. Also, if you were in a group, and somebody in the group had knowledge of guns, they could fix it for you. This whole thing would make clans better, as they would want to have people with specific skill-sets such as guns, cars, hunting, etc. Also remember what I said about the manuals. If you found a manual for your specific gun, it would give you the step-by-step on what to do.

 

I think that with the several things I have mentioned along with the fact that if you got extremely desperate the internet always has the answer, I think that there is several solutions if your gun malfunctions.

[General Zod 1118]

Yea great for 'muricans, not so great for people who live in country with limited gun access. 

[Evaris 61]

Yea great for 'muricans, not so great for people who live in country with limited gun access. 

Well there are still manuals online and video game simulators to teach you.

[General Zod 1118]

Well there are still manuals online and video game simulators to teach you.

Right I can already see people reading and watching online manuals for hours do do something in game. 

[Evaris 61]

Right I can already see people reading and watching online manuals for hours do do something in game. 

They do it in / for Eve. 

[General Zod 1118]

They do it in / for Eve. 

Small group of maniacs with no life. Do a poll here asking if players would do that. 

edit

I got great idea. 

Lets make players post their pictures, and based on their weight and fitness level we determine how long and fast they can run in game. (this is definitely not a jab at obesity in 'murica)

Edited August 29, 2014 by General Zod

[a_ruttle 199]

Given that weapon cleaning kits are ingame, and that it is an alpha, I'd assume an in depth weapon condition system is in the works

[The Aquatic Land Walrus 565]

In real life, if your gun jammed, and you didn't know what to do, I agree, it might "fucking make or break" your situation. Remember guns are going to be made rarer, so it may be very common to see players using melee weapons or low-tech weapons such as bows and crossbows. Also, if you were in a group, and somebody in the group had knowledge of guns, they could fix it for you. This whole thing would make clans better, as they would want to have people with specific skill-sets such as guns, cars, hunting, etc. Also remember what I said about the manuals. If you found a manual for your specific gun, it would give you the step-by-step on what to do.

 

I think that with the several things I have mentioned along with the fact that if you got extremely desperate the internet always has the answer, I think that there is several solutions if your gun malfunctions.

If you want that extreme realism, you might as well kick the chair out from under DayZ, if you get my expression. And, what's the point of having a mechanic when it can be completely passed over by having a single team-member over Skype? Knowing how to fix a gun is a one-and-done situation once a buddy tells you what to do over TeamSpeak or something. In that right, the feature's essentially useless.

[d.walker43 196]

If you want that extreme realism, you might as well kick the chair out from under DayZ, if you get my expression. And, what's the point of having a mechanic when it can be completely passed over by having a single team-member over Skype? Knowing how to fix a gun is a one-and-done situation once a buddy tells you what to do over TeamSpeak or something. In that right, the feature's essentially useless.

I have to disagree with what you said. Field-stripping a gun is not a one-and-done situation. There are many parts, and it can be very different in a shotgun then in an m4 or something like that. Not everyone can do it. And remember stripping a gun isn't the only thing we are talking about. Getting a car or other vehicle running could be very hard to someone unexperienced, and it would take quite some time to explain how to do it to a noobie. A helicopter should be damn near impossible to get running. Ive been working on small engines in real life for years, and I still occasionally make mistakes and am sometimes stumped as to what is wrong with it. I don't think any scenarios like these are "one-and-done" situations. Thanks for your thoughts.

[The Aquatic Land Walrus 565]

I have to disagree with what you said. Field-stripping a gun is not a one-and-done situation. There are many parts, and it can be very different in a shotgun then in an m4 or something like that. Not everyone can do it. And remember stripping a gun isn't the only thing we are talking about. Getting a car or other vehicle running could be very hard to someone unexperienced, and it would take quite some time to explain how to do it to a noobie. A helicopter should be damn near impossible to get running. Ive been working on small engines in real life for years, and I still occasionally make mistakes and am sometimes stumped as to what is wrong with it. I don't think any scenarios like these are "one-and-done" situations. Thanks for your thoughts.

By One and Done, I meant the following:

Say your gun jams. You ask your friend to help out. He tells you exactly what's wrong and what to do about it. Bang, no more problem, and you know exactly what to do next time. So, it only works if you're a loner with no friends, or anti-social. That'll only fit half of the community's persona, you know?

[d.walker43 196]

By One and Done, I meant the following:

Say your gun jams. You ask your friend to help out. He tells you exactly what's wrong and what to do about it. Bang, no more problem, and you know exactly what to do next time. So, it only works if you're a loner with no friends, or anti-social. That'll only fit half of the community's persona, you know?

OK, sorry about the confusion. I think I understand now. I still think that it wouldn't be that easy though. As I said before, I have several years of experience with small engines. I still make mistakes and get stumped quite often. Obviously real life vs video game it wont be as realistic, but it could be done to make it like this. Im sure after you did it several times in-game you probably would figure it out, but honestly, aren't all games like this? In MW3, if you played online enough, you figured out the best guns and perks. In Minecraft, you eventually figure out where diamonds and other rare ores are commonly at. You will eventually discover all of the secrets of a video game. DayZ is no exception to that.

[The Aquatic Land Walrus 565]

OK, sorry about the confusion. I think I understand now. I still think that it wouldn't be that easy though. As I said before, I have several years of experience with small engines. I still make mistakes and get stumped quite often. Obviously real life vs video game it wont be as realistic, but it could be done to make it like this. Im sure after you did it several times in-game you probably would figure it out, but honestly, aren't all games like this? In MW3, if you played online enough, you figured out the best guns and perks. In Minecraft, you eventually figure out where diamonds and other rare ores are commonly at. You will eventually discover all of the secrets of a video game. DayZ is no exception to that.

So? it just renders the system obsolete. Just like a mystery is no fun if you know what happens, or a puzzler is no fun if you know what to do, a mechanic is no fun if it just appears as a time-wasting gimmick.

[doctajones 123]

There is a point where quality of play surpasses the need for realism; this suggestion is far beyond that.  I am all for guns jamming without proper maintenance and requiring specific parts to fix a vehicle, but the meticulousness of ACTUALLY doing that is completely unnecessary.  And, as I imagine, far from fun.

[d.walker43 196]

So? it just renders the system obsolete. Just like a mystery is no fun if you know what happens, or a puzzler is no fun if you know what to do, a mechanic is no fun if it just appears as a time-wasting gimmick.

 

Ok, so if I know that in Dayz, I have to survive zombies, players, and the elements, and I know basic ways to do so, why play it? your just helping my point I made earlier.

There is a point where quality of play surpasses the need for realism; this suggestion is far beyond that.  I am all for guns jamming without proper maintenance and requiring specific parts to fix a vehicle, but the meticulousness of ACTUALLY doing that is completely unnecessary.  And, as I imagine, far from fun.

Alright, why? I'd like to hear an example of how realistic you think it should be then. If you think it shouldn't be as realistic as possible, what do you think it should be? The click of a button to get a very complex vehicle working? Or spending days finding parts for said vehicle? Or somewhere in-between? Please post an example as to what you think.

 

Thanks for the constructive criticism, Im getting some great ideas from this. Keep it up guys.

Edited August 30, 2014 by d.walker43

[Awruk 216]

Add guns jamming and they are gonna jam all the time due to desyncs and lag.

[doctajones 123]

Alright, why? I'd like to hear an example of how realistic you think it should be then. If you think it shouldn't be as realistic as possible, what do you think it should be? The click of a button to get a very complex vehicle working? Or spending days finding parts for said vehicle? Or somewhere in-between? Please post an example as to what you think.

 

Thanks for the constructive criticism, Im getting some great ideas from this. Keep it up guys.

First, lets try to avoid the term 'realistic' here.  I hate to open this can of worms but Dean doesn't want DayZ completely 'realistic,' but rather he wants to create an 'authentic' experience.  Everything should be openly interactable and behave like their real life counter parts, but we can also do things like mending fractures with a splint without it healing for weeks.

 

The car parts I am ok with.  You find a vehicle, inspect it, and get a general idea of what's wrong, like in your example.  Then hopefully you can find the part, attach it, and see it's status now.

 

My problem was with gun stripping.  There are 2 "realistic" ways I can think of that this could be implemented.

 

1.  You add a stripping minigame, something like WoG, and I am not a fan of that.  Minigames only really work in single player or games where you can stop time; DayZ is realtime, and at any second you may be in danger.

 

2.  You add a bunch of new items: bolts, springs, screws, etc (for each gun) that need to be detached and reattached in a certain order.  That is a LOT of work that I would prefer to be spent elsewhere, such as adding vehicles, base building, interactable world (swing axe, get wood).  Plus, you would have to hold on to all these little pieces or risk dropping them, taking up loads of bag space.

 

Perhaps an "authentic" suggestion would be:

- Gun jams, inspect to get an idea of what maybe could be wrong.

- Use weapon cleaning kit, get multiple options such as "clean bolt" or "replace spring" (I'm no expert so idk the causes/fixes for jamming.  it would obviously have to make sense)

- You can use any of the options, but only the right one will fix the gun.

- Perhaps there is also a "maintain weapon" option that has a bit of a lengthy animation, but can be done to prevent or heavily lessen the jamming probability for X amount of time.  You could do it before entering a military area for example, but not in the midst of a firefight without huge risk.

[d.walker43 196]

 

Perhaps an "authentic" suggestion would be:

- Gun jams, inspect to get an idea of what maybe could be wrong.

- Use weapon cleaning kit, get multiple options such as "clean bolt" or "replace spring" (I'm no expert so idk the causes/fixes for jamming.  it would obviously have to make sense)

- You can use any of the options, but only the right one will fix the gun.

- Perhaps there is also a "maintain weapon" option that has a bit of a lengthy animation, but can be done to prevent or heavily lessen the jamming probability for X amount of time.  You could do it before entering a military area for example, but not in the midst of a firefight without huge risk.

I like this. I had kind of forgotten about weapon cleaning kits, since they are so useless right now. However, I think your idea needs some tweaking, because otherwise people would just choose every option to guarantee it fixed it.

 

Maybe make weapon cleaning kits be sort of like med kits, having them contain only weapon parts and cleaning tools and such. Have different parts, but not have to worry about every individual screw. Just have like new springs, trigger mechanisms, firing pins, etc. to replace in the gun, or use a tool from the kit to clean the barrel or something. basically convert the weapon cleaning kit into a 6-slot container for weapon pieces, cleaning tools, etc.

 

I dont really understand the "maintain weapon" idea. are you suggesting having the ability to give the gun a basic cleaning whenever you wish, in order to keep it clean and gunk-free so it will jam less? makes sense, I always clean my guns after Ive taken them to the range for this reason. Assuming this is kind of what you meant? thanks.

[doctajones 123]

It obviously would need tweaking, I came up with it in about 2 minutes haha.  But it was more of the point.  Something that may challenge decision making to save time, but works fast enough to not drag on when fun is to be had elsewhere.  The Kit as a container crossed my mind but I didn't include it in my post, as I figured it would just hold all the parts when stripping.  That isn't a bad idea though.  Replace what you think is wrong, or do the general cleaning.  I think that weapons (and all items, for that matter), should deteriorate with use.  Using the cleaning kit often will keep it pristine, while letting it get worn>damaged>etc will make it jam and malfunction more frequently.

 

If you replaced say, the trigger from your Mosin with your extra from the Kit, should the replaced piece be consumed (disappear) or go into your inventory?  I think they should be consumed to punish an unnecessary repair, but this also means that weapon parts need to spawn outside of kits (like how you can find blood bags, IVs, etc outside of medkits).

 

This also opens the possibility of removing essential pieces from unwanted weapons, rendering them fairly useless to people who discover them, unless they too have the missing pieces.

Edited August 30, 2014 by doctajones

[d.walker43 196]

It obviously would need tweaking, I came up with it in about 2 minutes haha.  But it was more of the point.  Something that may challenge decision making to save time, but works fast enough to not drag on when fun is to be had elsewhere.  The Kit as a container crossed my mind but I didn't include it in my post, as I figured it would just hold all the parts when stripping.  That isn't a bad idea though.  Replace what you think is wrong, or do the general cleaning.  I think that weapons (and all items, for that matter), should deteriorate with use.  Using the cleaning kit often will keep it pristine, while letting it get worn>damaged>etc will make it jam and malfunction more frequently.

 

If you replaced say, the trigger from your Mosin with your extra from the Kit, should the replaced piece be consumed (disappear) or go into your inventory?  I think they should be consumed to punish an unnecessary repair, but this also means that weapon parts need to spawn outside of kits (like how you can find blood bags, IVs, etc outside of medkits).

 

This also opens the possibility of removing essential pieces from unwanted weapons, rendering them fairly useless to people who discover them, unless they too have the missing pieces.

hmm...I personally would say it should not disappear, but I don't know what it should do. Maybe go "down" a deterioration rank each time you replace it, until it is ruined? I definently agree that pieces should spawn outside of kits, but you would have to make sure people weren't building guns from scratch. I also think it should not be super easy to take parts out of a gun. I think that a screwdriver at least, maybe more tools should be required to take a gun apart. This whole thing would make tools much more important, not just for guns but for cars and stuff too, these should require several tools to work on. I really hope somebody important is seeing this conversation, we are coming up with some great ideas lol.