The camo building is stupid

[soulfirez 901]

Wait what we are complaining about holding fortified/defensive positions?? well bugger me thats the point of them so a small number can hold against more than there number. People have been doing this for centuries hence why they build forts castles LOL. NO SHIT a man dug into a good position can hold of many thats how it should be for god sake.

 

multiple solutions 1 leave 2 camp and see who has the most patience 3 use a grenades if you got them. Why the fuck do they need to balance buildings so what you can super fast side strafe 180 jump headshot???? There is a reason militaries chose/build defensive positions because they work so either adapt or not ,kinda sick of no logic crap, without good defensive positions how is a lone wolf or small group going to survive attacks from clans?? Nah lets throw out military logic for i want to be ubber PvP deathmatch super unreal tournament man...

Edited August 23, 2014 by SoulFirez

[kakysas666 191]

The design of the "camo/military prison" building is very unbalanced favoring campers 100%

 

 

go back to CS GO if you want balanced deathmatch... I hope OP is a troll, I have seen such thread before.

[Capo 323]

Still that is pretty frustrating when you want PvP wich is what everyone was seeking in the engagement I described... Sure those kind of buildings can exist but since this game is looking for more balanced gameplay I feel like the design of that building doesn't come in place.

 

 

Yes, it is frustrating when you're enemy has you at a complete disadvantage, it's your job to put them in a position where you're at the advantage. If someone is waiting for you in a camo building, wait for them to come out. 

[hombrecz 832]

ProTip:  If someone is camping it.  Leave.  Then you dont have to worry about engaging them when they are fortified.  Luckily, Cherarus is pretty big, so there are other places you can head too. 

 

100x THIS!!!!!! DayZ is not capture the flag game, you do not have to clear every building. 

Like it or not, people are free to camp buildings, same as they are free to hide on sniper hills taking off freshies.

 

Unles you cheat, hack or intentionaly glitch, the rest is a fair game

 

EDIT: I'm waiting once somebody brings up the castles again, demanding that main tower, built to be very defensible, should get 10 ladders and other stuff to make it more "fair" for attackers :-D.

 

Come on, DayZ is nothing like fair, everybody should know that already. 

Edited August 23, 2014 by Hombre

[BugZ (DayZ) 49]

Can you say to me what is not stupid in this game ?  Leave those buildings ect.. From begining this game ruins itself with server hopping. Everywhere peoples with akm,ak101 guns thats main and massive problem. You call game as survival but you can get any items you want by server hopping very easly. No need to be talented, No need to be skilled player. Log in low populatin server get fully geared then server hop to high pop server and pvp. Thats what happening in this game 7/24 and this is kinda boring I cant even see people much except around airstrips and military bases.

[kakysas666 191]

I think OP is right. It is not fair that m4 has 60 round stanag and sks has only 10 bullets max. If I am fighting with a guy who has m4 and I only sks of course he's gonna win, then what's the point in fighting. Devs should make only 10rnd magazines for m4 possible. That's how I see it... Don't upboat.

[heradon89 21]

The ATC has the external ladder for example, something you actually need to take care of if you are defending and there are a pair of windows, one of them behind the main stairs wich you can try to use to eliminate the guy camped on the stairs.

The fire station has the 3 big doors and a small one apart from the external ladders where you can get some vision of what's happening inside of the tower through the windows.

The supermarket has the back doors, the window and the main entrance.

The buildings in arma3 are all designed so you can't be safe in one place looking at one way.

I'm not going to say the barracks since being inside them it's suicide if there is any1 outside.

The thing about the camo/prison building is that A SINGLE PERSON can defend it completely without worrying about being backstabbed no probs

And why is that a problem? Anyway I've figured out how to clean those buildings if you a have friend with ya. It only requires an automatic rifle or SMG ofc. For suppressive fire. EZ. If you think it's too risky, why bother? Do you have this urge to kill people that fortify inside those buildings? Edited August 23, 2014 by Heradon2k

[Accolyte 1727]

I don't understand why it is a problem that the person defending a building has an advantage. That's the point of entrenching yourself in a building. It's not supposed to be fair. And saying that 3rd person helps the defender is nonsense. I would say the attacker has an advantage in that situation as he can check corners without exposing himself. Either way, that one is a moot point since there are 1st person servers available. If you don't like 3rd person, don't play on servers that allow it. It's simple as that.

 

It's completely normal for houses/buildings to have a single entrance or a single stairwell to higher floors, I don't understand why anyone would expect a building that's 5x10m to have numerous entrances. Just because some buildings have them doesn't mean it should be a norm for every single building.

[hombrecz 832]

I don't understand why it is a problem that the person defending a building has an advantage. That's the point of entrenching yourself in a building. It's not supposed to be fair. And saying that 3rd person helps the defender is nonsense. I would say the attacker has an advantage in that situation as he can check corners without exposing himself. Either way, that one is a moot point since there are 1st person servers available. If you don't like 3rd person, don't play on servers that allow it. It's simple as that.

 

It's completely normal for houses/buildings to have a single entrance or a single stairwell to higher floors, I don't understand why anyone would expect a building that's 5x10m to have numerous entrances. Just because some buildings have them doesn't mean it should be a norm for every single building.

 

Well said, well said. Some people, I guess, are happy if everything is artificaly bend to suit the game even if it means being detached far away from reality.

To expect that DayZ is to be fair game is....naive to say the least.

[DerrocK (DayZ) 39]

I don't understand why it is a problem that the person defending a building has an advantage. That's the point of entrenching yourself in a building. It's not supposed to be fair. And saying that 3rd person helps the defender is nonsense. I would say the attacker has an advantage in that situation as he can check corners without exposing himself. Either way, that one is a moot point since there are 1st person servers available. If you don't like 3rd person, don't play on servers that allow it. It's simple as that.

 

It's completely normal for houses/buildings to have a single entrance or a single stairwell to higher floors, I don't understand why anyone would expect a building that's 5x10m to have numerous entrances. Just because some buildings have them doesn't mean it should be a norm for every single building.

 

I'm just pointing out what I feel is an obvious thing to say at the game current's state wich is ALPHA and that means things can be changed. I Feel that building has to be changed for, IMHO, obvious reasons.

 

At least they removed the prison building out of the NEAF because before, all the game's newcomers would just die to campers inside those buildings. Same with balota before the spawns were removed from that location.

 

I feel it's poor design and mechanics that even if you take all possible precautions before entering a building (like checking corners with 3rd person or trying to see through the windows), you will die 80% of the time if a player is camping the main entrance or the stairs.

 

Sure this is all realistic bla bla bla but it still is a game wich is supposed to be fun. I played since the first days of the mod, died countless times to bugs etc. I don't care if I die to a bug now, or to a poor mechanic etc BUT maybe other players don't feel the same way.

 

I'm not suggesting a complete revamp of the building, 1 single window is what I think that would enhance the building in a great measure.

 

I don't agree with you when u said that the attacker has a bigger advantage using 3rd person since you can't "bend" the camera to see what's behind corners in a long enough corridor.

 

There are 2 or 3 steps on the stair before entering the building wich "stagger" your character even if you don't want to stop. After going through that stair you still have to press again W x2 for your character to keep sprinting and be able to "rush" your opponent if you want to have a surprise effect or maybe test his reaction time. You can't rush because of that.

 

 

If the defender feels threatened he can just log off very easily too... 

 

 

Btw, I love all this trolly criticism to me from other posters (OP) for pointing out possible bad features in an ALPHA. Gr8 community, 10/10

Edited August 23, 2014 by DerrocK

[soulfirez 901]

I'm just pointing out what I feel is an obvious thing to say at the game current's state wich is ALPHA and that means things can be changed. I Feel that building has to be changed for, IMHO, obvious reasons.

 

At least they removed the prison building out of the NEAF because before, all the game's newcomers would just die to campers inside those buildings. Same with balota before the spawns were removed from that location.

 

I feel it's poor design and mechanics that even if you take all possible precautions before entering a building (like checking corners with 3rd person or trying to see through the windows), you will die 80% of the time if a player is camping the main entrance or the stairs.

 

Sure this is all realistic bla bla bla but it still is a game wich is supposed to be fun. I played since the first days of the mod, died countless times to bugs etc. I don't care if I die to a bug now, or to a poor mechanic etc BUT maybe other players don't feel the same way.

 

I'm not suggesting a complete revamp of the building, 1 single window is what I think that would enhance the building in a great measure.

 

I don't agree with you when u said that the attacker has a bigger advantage using 3rd person since you can't "bend" the camera to see what's behind corners in a long enough corridor.

 

There are 2 or 3 steps on the stair before entering the building wich "stagger" your character even if you don't want to stop. After going through that stair you still have to press again W x2 for your character to keep sprinting and be able to "rush" your opponent if you want to have a surprise effect or maybe test his reaction time. You can't rush because of that.

 

 

If the defender feels threatened he can just log off very easily too... 

 

 

Btw, I love all this trolly criticism to me from other posters (OP) for pointing out possible bad features in an ALPHA. Gr8 community, 10/10

Really what a load of horse shit... People in this thread gave you reasons why it is how it is ( well except for the stairs movement thing it would be nice to take them a bit faster lol) they also gave you alternate methods of dealing with such a case. All i am hearing is this doesnt flow like a pure PvP game but ill take on some other lame stuff so i dont sound like a douche..

 

You worried you could get ambushed in that building well stop playing WHY because you can get ambushed damn near anywhere so that whole arguement is just lame drivel spat forward to add to a weak one sided arguement...

[DerrocK (DayZ) 39]

Really what a load of horse shit...

 

Stopped reading

[Forrelist 236]

If they haven't noticed you ( and they shouldn't because it's difficult to wall glitch now) just try waiting outside in cover. People always get complacent when they are looting.

[Tashtego 14]

 I'm experiencing great disappointment. I had been following this thread and was going to suggest that it be merged to a forum centered around some mindless first person, blood match, pew-pew, pvp, twitch shooter. The internet is full of them. It wouldn't be hard to find. But then out of a clear blue sky a member of BI staff chimes in with an opinion telling me that this type of gameplay is a part of what DayZ is all about.

 The stated premise was that it is a game about survival in a zombie apocalypse situation, not the first person shooter described above. If the developers have changed their minds please let me know. I would really rather spend my time contributing my time on an alpha of a game not be based on pvp player interaction.

[soulfirez 901]

Stopped reading

Of course you did because you have no points to stand on just stupid whining about nothing. Played the mod since the start aye and suddenly now this 1 building is stupid hmmm there is definately something stupid here ill let you decide what it is but a clue its not that building...

[Accolyte 1727]

The stated premise was that it is a game about survival in a zombie apocalypse situation, not the first person shooter described above. If the developers have changed their minds please let me know. I would really rather spend my time contributing my time on an alpha of a game not be based on pvp player interaction.

 

I wasn't discussing any premise at all. Where was I ever discussing the premise of the game in my previous post?

[DerrocK (DayZ) 39]

Of course you did because you have no points to stand on just stupid whining about nothing. Played the mod since the start aye and suddenly now this 1 building is stupid hmmm there is definately something stupid here ill let you decide what it is but a clue its not that building...

 

Ofc you never heard of constructive criticism, oh right you never did that, you just rage/troll/cry/whine. That is at least what I'm seeing.

 

You really don't understand the point of an alpha do you

Edited August 23, 2014 by DerrocK

[Katana67 2907]

It's completely normal for houses/buildings to have a single entrance or a single stairwell to higher floors, I don't understand why anyone would expect a building that's 5x10m to have numerous entrances. Just because some buildings have them doesn't mean it should be a norm for every single building.

 

I would make the argument that it's because they're high-value locations that they should have two entrances (ladders work fine too, see the ATC). The barracks and jail buildings are the two biggest perpetrators. And coincidentally, they're the two best (as of now) high-value buildings.

 

It's not so much about making them "fair" to me, and more about making these high-traffic buildings... less predictable. I mean, they're high-value buildings. Which means that more people will be drawn to them and will be entering these buildings than any others. So, why would we want that experience to become formulaic? Why would we want these high-traffic buildings being, arguably, the most straightforward buildings in the game?

 

Case in point, the police stations. They have two entrances, and are they any more "balanced" than these other ones? I don't know, I don't think so. They're still PvP clusterfucks which can be camped. But something as simple as having a second entrance varies the experience. It changes the nature of the encounter every time, it changes the approach you can take to a building.

 

Defenders are still at an advantage (i.e. waiting for people to come to them, and in cover) and the attackers are still just as liable to fuck up and die as they were before. But they can make a choice.

Edited August 23, 2014 by Katana67

[Accolyte 1727]

....

 

I don't agree that adding an entrance would make any difference at all. Most people defending inside a building will logically seek a position where they can be only assaulted from one direction. In police station that would be on top of the stairs or inside any room on the second floor. If there was another entrance added to the barracks, people would camp in the showers. If there was another entrance added to the camo building they would still camp on top of the stairs. Unless you want every building to have multiple entrances and every room inside said building to also have numerous entrances, this problem (which is not really a problem imo) will never be solved as people will still look for the most defensible spot which will always be there and it will be essentially the same thing.

 

And like I said earlier, just because one building has different points of access, it doesn't mean that all building should be like that.

[DerrocK (DayZ) 39]

I don't agree that adding an entrance would make any difference at all. Most people defending inside a building will logically seek a position where they can be only assaulted from one direction. In police station that would be on top of the stairs or inside any room on the second floor. If there was another entrance added to the barracks, people would camp in the showers. If there was another entrance added to the camo building they would still camp on top of the stairs. Unless you want every building to have multiple entrances and every room inside said building to also have numerous entrances, this problem (which is not really a problem imo) will never be solved as people will still look for the most defensible spot which will always be there and it will be essentially the same thing.

 

And like I said earlier, just because one building has different points of access, it doesn't mean that all building should be like that.

 

I agree with the shower room but that can be dealt with easily if you know there is somebody inside it. On the other hand if they camp on top of the stairs 2nd floor of the prison building, you still have the chance to check through the windows and see if the defender made a mistake.

[Katana67 2907]

I don't agree that adding an entrance would make any difference at all. Most people defending inside a building will logically seek a position where they can be only assaulted from one direction. In police station that would be on top of the stairs or inside any room on the second floor. If there was another entrance added to the barracks, people would camp in the showers. If there was another entrance added to the camo building they would still camp on top of the stairs. Unless you want every building to have multiple entrances and every room inside said building to also have numerous entrances, this problem (which is not really a problem imo) will never be solved as people will still look for the most defensible spot which will always be there and it will be essentially the same thing.

 

And like I said earlier, just because one building has different points of access, it doesn't mean that all building should be like that.

 

I'm not saying they should all be like that. I'm saying that it's worthwhile to consider making some of your highest-traffic buildings a bit more varied in how they can be approached. I actually think the barracks building might be far more in need of a change than the jail building (to say nothing of its cumbersome nature in having zombies walk through the insanely narrow, door-filled, hallway).

 

The goal here isn't to eliminate camping. Or to eliminate the advantage to be had by defenders.

 

It's to make approaching, clearing, holding, looting, and exiting these buildings less formulaic. These buildings are high-traffic buildings, and I make the argument that they need to be put under more intense scrutiny than others. Hence why I agree that they shouldn't be changed simply because other buildings have two entrances. They should be changed because they get a lot of use and a lot of time is spent dealing with these buildings in the game.

 

You're right in saying that defending players will always seek the most defensible spots. But certain designs have areas in which two spots can be equally as defensible, thus requiring a group (and more effort) to defend adequately. However, when there's only really one defensible spot (i.e. a chokepoint) it makes the buildings (in my opinion) uninteresting and formulaic to interact with, not to mention inconsequential to defend as they can be locked down by one man.

 

That, and to nitpick, the barracks has windows peering in to every room (even the shower has a window facing it from across the hall). Only issue is that, to my knowledge, the windows cannot be shot through currently.

 

It becomes a situation of "If I clear that corner, I'm good to go." I'd argue that the buildings are far more "balanced" having one entrance and singular chokepoints as it stands now, simply because both the defenders/attackers know what to expect. As a defender, I know the attacker will come up stairway X before I even know anyone's in the area. On the other side, as an attacker, I know that the defender will be in a single "most defensible" spot.

 

I know the scenario before I even look at the building, much less enter it and clear it. That is why I think some could use a revamp.

Edited August 23, 2014 by Katana67

[q.S Sachiel 470]

ITT: trolls.  refuses logic and says 'gr8 community':trololol. "Sure this is all realistic bla bla bla but it still is a game wich is supposed to be fun". Dude I enjoy driving my car and it's a lot of fun and i like it when it goes VROOOM, but if you're getting on the freeway every time in first gear and 90kph then you're doing it wrong.  Plain and simple.  Break yourself on their shield, fail to use tactics and intelligence/cunning and you're just another dead mark.

 

As far as barracks again, i still reckon that there's like what? 6 rooms?  That's not a lot of loot for the server.  If there's 3 barracks then you've got 18 chances at loot which is still less than half of player total, and discounting hoppers and all the rest you're going to see a lot of empty rooms.  The empty rooms are going to be more consistant and 'expected' and 'formulaic' than people hiding inside the barracks. 

I do support a revamp and maybe a bit of fresh-air redesign of some buildings or a smattering of new buildings throughout cherno, just to make it feel a little fresher, but i'd rather that more in a cosmetic approach than a functional approach.  There's a few Z-vets here anyway, and I'm sure that it's their experience more than anything that makes the scenario predictable before you look at the building/clear it.  That said, and as you and other said, Katana/Acolyte, there are just certain spots which are logically stronger and people will gravitate towards these spots.  Think of every other FPS game you've played, and you'll know there's at least 5 spots per game where some sad sack is camping day in day out.

[KingOfTime 267]

ITT: trolls.  refuses logic and says 'gr8 community':trololol. "Sure this is all realistic bla bla bla but it still is a game wich is supposed to be fun". Dude I enjoy driving my car and it's a lot of fun and i like it when it goes VROOOM, but if you're getting on the freeway every time in first gear and 90kph then you're doing it wrong.  Plain and simple.  Break yourself on their shield, fail to use tactics and intelligence/cunning and you're just another dead mark.

 

As far as barracks again, i still reckon that there's like what? 6 rooms?  That's not a lot of loot for the server.  If there's 3 barracks then you've got 18 chances at loot which is still less than half of player total, and discounting hoppers and all the rest you're going to see a lot of empty rooms.  The empty rooms are going to be more consistant and 'expected' and 'formulaic' than people hiding inside the barracks. 

I do support a revamp and maybe a bit of fresh-air redesign of some buildings or a smattering of new buildings throughout cherno, just to make it feel a little fresher, but i'd rather that more in a cosmetic approach than a functional approach.  There's a few Z-vets here anyway, and I'm sure that it's their experience more than anything that makes the scenario predictable before you look at the building/clear it.  That said, and as you and other said, Katana/Acolyte, there are just certain spots which are logically stronger and people will gravitate towards these spots.  Think of every other FPS game you've played, and you'll know there's at least 5 spots per game where some sad sack is camping day in day out.

Thank you for admitting that this is my community.

[darthbane67 92]

That is unbelievable lol by yourself? what were they camping with? crossbow? haha. maybe their IQ was less than 5

 

One guys was using a shotgun when they were bugged/broke so that one is kind of a gimme. The others i open the front door while I'm on the side of the door so my body isn't right in the middle when its opened. I also make sure before I open the door my gun raised & ready to go I then start peeking in for a bit and then slowly moving forward. If you can get to the jail cell door and open it you can get a little cover since the door is still solid and cant be shot through. Then you just move in slow checking hiding spots and maybe chucking some stuff to see if someone losses their shit and shoots the can of beans. If you know how to play and play tactically and smart no position is safe really.

[humdizzle 5]

maybe they should start spawning flashbangs/grenades at the military areas, easiest way to take care of campers