The camo building is stupid

[hellcat420 212]

Oh, then bring in an AS50 TWS, who cares, pvp is not supposed to be balanced right

i really dont care either way, i dont use those weapons. but that is off topic from what your thread is discussing.

[hells high 676]

The design of the "camo/military prison" building is very unbalanced favoring campers 100% especially on 3rd person servers. (on 1st P you can still hear the footsteps since the sound is different when they step inside the building)

One guy can defend it perfectly from 2-3 guys. Tested it myself with AKM 75 drum mag when 2 guys tried to kill me (they knew I was there since they were direct chatting me telling me to surrender lol). U literally just need to 3rd person the main door and it's gg for the attackers unless they have explosive grenades wich are rare ofc, flashbangs won't work against a good opponent since you can just turn around your head and if you don't turn your head you might aswell spray your 75 drum down the main entrance until the flashbang effect goes off.

 

First floor fell!? No problem! 2nd floor is, once again almost completely unnacessible if the defender has 5 IQ. You could just be on the area behind the stairs, behind the door of the loot room etc etc.

 

You can't go in sprinting because of some random thingy that forces you to stop sprinting when entering a building or having a slight variation on the terrain. bug?

 

I know this isn't going to be changed since it's work that is done and yeah, it would be a pain in the ass to remake it and even though it's alpha it's not going to happen as we have seen with other Arma3 bad features that stayed since the alpha days, I have the bad feeling this is how bohemia rolls, hope not.

 

Forget about attacking it if you are a lone wolf, that is for sure.

 

IMHO there needs to be windows to the 1st floor corridor and places with more altitude near those camo buildings to clear the buildings through the windows. Maybe a 2nd entrance could be a good idea too.

 

Also it is really easy to combat log inside those since the attacker will be so afraid of going in and so will just keep the patience battle up.

 

Seriously I feel so SO safe when I'm inside, my only fear being somebody ghosting to the top floor and coming down to kill me.

 

I hope I made myself clear.

 

Uh, okay. Its a legacy ARMA building, likely designed off a real complex that the team visited in the Czech Republic. Find a chopper crash and pick up some flash bangs and frags. Or just leave the area.

[svisketyggeren 662]

The design of the "camo/military prison" building is very unbalanced favoring campers 100% especially on 3rd person servers. (on 1st P you can still hear the footsteps since the sound is different when they step inside the building)..........

its not the building fault...it the inherent stupid nature of 3rd person.

[DerrocK (DayZ) 39]

So your saying a military building, which are normally designed to be easily defendable from attackers, should be the opposite?  Maybe the bunkers at Normandy should have had unlocked doors on the beach side to make it fair for the Allies?  This is more realisitic rather than 'fair'.  If you want to assault this building, play it smart.  Find some grenades before you go raiding one or just ignore the building entirely.

 

Yeah sure this building has lots of sandbags/spiked wire around it to make it more defensive, totally intentional... Oh and the computer room on the 1st floor is also very military dude, they surprisingly spawn military loot for some weirdo reason.

 

And I'm saying this is extremely overpowered on 3rd person servers, not so much on 1st person servers as you can't abuse the camera to peek out at the exact moment.

 

-"uh then go play hardcore nub"

 

No need to respond now.

[ChainReactor 922]

The bug I pointed out was the sudden stop/speed reduction when entering a building or on some terrain variations. I'm not pointing out the risk of being trapped inside, actually the opposite to that, I'm trying to say that building is way too dull and offers very very low excitement combats (since it goes all down to patience battle) and very very low succes rate for the more offensive players.

 

Okay, i might have gotten you wrong then. Sorry for that. But lets approach from the other side. What building you would say is the exact opposite of the jail? Wherein can you have an exciting, not-patience-based pvp battle?

 

The sudden stop/speed reduction thing seems to be a bug tho. Going up somewhere while sprinting is bugged since idk when, even its just a slight slope.

[DerrocK (DayZ) 39]

Okay, i might have gotten you wrong then. Sorry for that. But lets approach from the other side. What building you would say is the exact opposite of the jail? Wherein can you have an exciting, not-patience-based pvp battle?

 

The sudden stop/speed reduction thing seems to be a bug tho. Going up somewhere while sprinting is bugged since idk when, even its just a slight slope.

 

The ATC has the external ladder for example, something you actually need to take care of if you are defending and there are a pair of windows, one of them behind the main stairs wich you can try to use to eliminate the guy camped on the stairs.

The fire station has the 3  big doors and a small one apart from the external ladders where you can get some vision of what's happening inside of the tower through the windows.

The supermarket has the back doors, the window and the main entrance.

The buildings in arma3 are all designed so you can't be safe in one place looking at one way.

 

I'm not going to say the barracks since being inside them it's suicide if there is any1 outside.

 

The thing about the camo/prison building is that A SINGLE PERSON can defend it completely without worrying about being backstabbed no probs

Edited August 23, 2014 by DerrocK

[Bororm 1156]

I think some people set the bar insanely low for what constitutes "balance" of something.

 

Adding two, vice just one, entries/exits to a building doesn't make a building "balanced." Just means there's more to take into consideration when assaulting/defending, and varies the situation more so for both sides.

 

Rather than "Welp, they'll be coming through the front door... let me train my Mosin on the only entryway" it becomes "Shit, there's two doors... Which one do I pick?"

 

Likewise, it changes from "Welp, I've got to check corners X, Y, and Z... and if there's nobody there, I'm good" to "I've got to check corners X, Y, and Z if I go in through entrance 1... or corners A, B, and C if I go through entrance 2."

 

Doesn't necessarily make the building more "balanced," just makes for a varied (and therefore, marginally unpredictable) experience.

 

I didn't understand neither from you nor from the original guy who said that balancing the map would make it dull. Why does adding a 2nd entrance or a pair of extra windows make the map dull? :/

 

The point is less the particular scenario, and more that there's a lot of buildings with only a single entrance.  I know katana pointed out that these high value military buildings are the biggest culprit, but that's only by nature of their popularity.  So where do you draw the line?

 

The castles were never balanced in the mod, and they were even more exploitable.  You literally could not aim high enough to counter people standing above the doorway and aiming down.  The result is a frustrating situation, but it's also a challenge.

 

We're dealing with other human beings, not robots, and there's always room for creativity in these scenarios or for people to slip.  Simply because there's only a single entrance doesn't mean it's an impossibility, as I'm sure everyone here who engages in these scenarios regularly has prevailed against camping guys, or in the opposite scenario, lost to attackers.

 

We also don't have nearly all the tools available to us yet.  Grenades potentially solve the issue.  Grenade launchers even more so.  There's no telling if we won't be able to completely destroy buildings at some point like in the mod/arma.  As to the example of the castles, helicopters created the second route in, and while it was still extremely unlikely you'd breach from the roof if a full group was on their game inside it was still another option.  Who knows, a riot shield could even be implemented to help breaches.

 

Redesigning a structure simply because fights are hard just doesn't seem like the best option just yet is all I'm saying.

[Bororm 1156]

People appear to be just looking at the word "balance" and are reacting to that.

 

If the jail building had two entryways normally, and never had one entryway, would it be any less interesting/fun/PvP-oriented?

 

Not to me. Think less about it being "balanced" and more about it being made varied/unpredictable versus formulaic and predictable. I don't want my risky entry into a high-value building to be formulaic (i.e. check these two corners for players camping).

 

Would people be up in arms, wanting there to be one entryway instead of two? I doubt it.

 

It could be argued that by making the high-value buildings varied in terms of entry/exit routes, you're actually making it more dynamic and unpredictable for both the attackers and defenders. Thereby making the experience more unforgiving for those who mismanage the situation (on both ends).

 

So create new buildings, but why change the existing ones?

I mean I actually do agree with you, and if they changed it I wouldn't care if the reason wasn't for balance (if it was I'd just think it was a shitty reason), but the original post was about it being too difficult so any discussion about changing it due to that "issue" is one of balance.

Edited August 23, 2014 by Bororm

[hellcat420 212]

Yeah sure this building has lots of sandbags/spiked wire around it to make it more defensive, totally intentional... Oh and the computer room on the 1st floor is also very military dude, they surprisingly spawn military loot for some weirdo reason.

 

And I'm saying this is extremely overpowered on 3rd person servers, not so much on 1st person servers as you can't abuse the camera to peek out at the exact moment.

 

-"uh then go play hardcore nub"

 

No need to respond now.

you think the military doesnt use computers? or you just think that military computers are only camo colored?

[DerrocK (DayZ) 39]

Who knows, a riot shield could even be implemented to help breaches.

 

Haha this would be awesome, we have a friend on our squad wich is kinda "bad" on PvP compared to the rest of us and he is very aware of this and he is willing to be the bait for us. We used to play WoW so we call him the tank lol. My dream is he wearing ballistic helmet+press vest/ballistic vest+riot shield xD

[ChainReactor 922]

 

The thing about the camo/prison building is that A SINGLE PERSON can defend it completely without worrying about being backstabbed no probs

 

It ain't hard to do it just the other way. You can camp the shit out of the Camo building either as an attacker or an defender.

 

You know what? I will try that out. Once i find someone camping the stairs in the Jail i will force him to move to 1st floor and then sit down below the stairway with both the first floor and the corner to the entrance in sight.

 

Then i will open voice and read a really silly book to him.

 

Sounds like a fun afternoon to me.

[DerrocK (DayZ) 39]

It ain't hard to do it just the other way. You can camp the shit out of the Camo building either as an attacker or an defender.

 

You know what? I will try that out. Once i find someone camping the stairs in the Jail i will force him to move to 1st floor and then sit down below the stairway with both the first floor and the corner to the entrance in sight.

 

Then i will open voice and read a really silly book to him.

 

Sounds like a fun afternoon to me.

 

Such excitement, down to a patience battle wich will probably end in a 1v1 spraydown desync death for any of you...

 

Good luck! Hey maybe you could record it? I think it would be fun hearing you read the book and maybe the other guy raging haha

[ebrim 998]

I really don't see the problem. I suppose you could have a variation of the type of building filling the same role maybe? There's nothing wrong with the building that exists though. As has been said, if you know someone is there you are free to leave. You are also free to siege it if you have the manpower to try and wait until the guy either tries to leave or logs. Or you're free to run in and pick up a few extra holes. If you have a manpower advantage, again, you might just win or flashbangs/grenades.

[Katana67 2907]

So create new buildings, but why change the existing ones?

I mean I actually do agree with you, and if they changed it I wouldn't care if the reason wasn't for balance (if it was I'd just think it was a shitty reason), but the original post was about it being too difficult so any discussion about changing it due to that "issue" is one of balance.

 

Right, and I disagree with the OP about a need for its change due to "balance." But I think some of the buildings warrant a change nonetheless.

 

But that doesn't mean that it's not a worthwhile endeavor to make the buildings (especially the high-value locations) a bit more varied in how they can be approached, lest the act of looting high-value gear become formulaic.

[ChainReactor 922]

Such excitement, down to a patience battle wich will probably end in a 1v1 spraydown desync death for any of you...

 

Good luck! Hey maybe you could record it? I think it would be fun hearing you read the book and maybe the other guy raging haha

 

Thanks for adding that. Now you exactly get my POV. PVP is meh because of desync, lag and hackers. PVE is meh because of broken melee, missing content and bugged zombies. And maybe you get now why i dont care about gear, my character, or getting killed in first place, and simply enjoy doing some silly interactions because DayZ offers this possibillity to me, and guess what, THIS works :P

 

No recordings tho, sry, my rig is like from the last century.

[Bad Company 140]

You talk as if it is his fault that you are breaking yourselves onto his shield, aka the fact that he has an easily-defended position. What you have, on the other hand, is the ability to... walk away.

[DerrocK (DayZ) 39]

You talk as if it is his fault that you are breaking yourselves onto his shield, aka the fact that he has an easily-defended position. What you have, on the other hand, is the ability to... walk away.

 

Who is he? I was defending 2 guys attacked me I defended it perfectly without even blinking, I think i didn't make it clear on my post, will check it on a mom sry.

[Bad Company 140]

Who is he? I was defending 2 guys attacked me I defended it perfectly without even blinking, I think i didn't make it clear on my post, will check it on a mom sry.

 

My mistake, its getting late and I read it like you were the ones attacking. Still, doesn't change the subject. The game is supposed to be realistic, which means that somethings are simply the way they are.

 

Lets compare this to, say... Call of Duty.

In Call of Duty there will be a gang of kids, all armed with sticks, fighting on a flat grass field. Everyone can see everyone, everyone is armed virtually equally, with the only variation being the length and size of the aforementioned sticks. It all boils down to the individual kid and how he wields his personal stick.

 

Now, in DayZ, you may still be a kid with a stick. This is fine; you have the stick, and the stick has you. You might even be able to take down another stickwielding fellow. Still, no matter how good your stick is or how well you wield it, chances are you are going to be the victim of a slightly older kid, sitting in his fortress made out of solid granite, firing on you with 200mm high-explosive artillery. 

Your stick has now been rendered useless, and it has no advantage over the artillery, other than it is more suited to scratch your back with.

 

Silly analogies aside; the best way to even out the playing field as much as possible is to pick your battles, and always play to your strengths.

Remember; knowing is half the battle. The other half is to have the biggest stick.

[Grimey Rick 3417]

ProTip:  If someone is camping it.  Leave.  Then you dont have to worry about engaging them when they are fortified.  Luckily, Cherarus is pretty big, so there are other places you can head too. 

 

Yeah, after potentially several hours of running around in a multi-player game without seeing another player, when you do find one, run away!

[reapers239 57]

if you know where your enemy is, and there is only way out, and you have element of surprise, just wait, eitheer he will come out or he log out. given that he has not seen you he will come out.....just not be smart but outsmart

[darthbane67 92]

That's funny I totally killed the guys camping the MP building I went to. Its not that hard to attack fortified positions if you know what the fuck you are doing. I even killed a guy watching the stairs on the second floor its not hard its just a fun challenge. 

[IkaikaKekai 1957]

Yeah sure this building has lots of sandbags/spiked wire around it to make it more defensive, totally intentional... Oh and the computer room on the 1st floor is also very military dude, they surprisingly spawn military loot for some weirdo reason.

 

And I'm saying this is extremely overpowered on 3rd person servers, not so much on 1st person servers as you can't abuse the camera to peek out at the exact moment.

 

-"uh then go play hardcore nub"

 

No need to respond now.

You miss the point entirely about how the design of the building itself makes it slightly more defensible, not simply some sand bags and camo paintjob..  You have the high ground, one point of entry where anything trying to kill you will be well in your killzone before you enter theirs.  Yes it's made worse by exploits such as 3pp, but that's why it's called an Exploit.  Either put up with it like the rest of us who refuse to cheat or play something else till it's patched.

[DerrocK (DayZ) 39]

That's funny I totally killed the guys camping the MP building I went to. Its not that hard to attack fortified positions if you know what the fuck you are doing. I even killed a guy watching the stairs on the second floor its not hard its just a fun challenge. 

 

That is unbelievable lol by yourself? what were they camping with? crossbow? haha. maybe their IQ was less than 5

[hellcat420 212]

That is unbelievable lol by yourself? what were they camping with? crossbow? haha. maybe their IQ was less than 5

you would be suprised how easy it is when a couple mouthbreathers are trying to defend those buildings.

[q.S Sachiel 470]

I don't get it?  It's a defensible position and you want it to be indefensible?

That's like asking the devs to remove all the hills and valleys and play on a flat plane, remove buildings just so someone can't have a height advantage on you.

I don't see the need to change anything for the most part, and as others have said things like 'best loot spawns in the simplest of buildings' ie: barracks: isn't that half the FUN?

running down the duckhunt barrel, into a building with clear lines of sight in at least 2 directions in every part of the building?  You're laying down your life for better gear...

gawsh people, enjoy the challenge why dontcha