This game is and always will be way too military focused by players

[billyangstadt 272]

8/10 people I talk to or come across in this game only care about the military loot. There can be an entire changelog filled with awesome survival additions, but the only threads will be those regarding the new shiny weapons.

 

I know that this game is PVP focused, nothing you can do with ever fix that..all you can do is hope to make it harder to get this gear.

 

Server hopping for military gear right now is a huge problem, and "rare" military gear is everywhere due the the hundreds of possible drop nodes per server. That, and dupers.

 

Want to limit the amount of M4's, AK's, Grenades, etc? Want to stop server hoppers?

Move all military weaponry/attachments exclusively to heli crash sites. I'd like to see someone server hop a crash site. Yes, it's possible, but extremely improbable to actually find one in the exact same spot that hasn't been touched.

 

Barracks should only spawn military apparel. Hats, Vests, backpacks, etc.

 

Police stations should at max spawn a sidearm.

 

Spotting a player with a kitted out M4 should be a "holy S*it, I haven't seen one in weeks" moment. Not a "Oh, look..another one"

 

Limiting the availability of these weapons will no doubt increase the duping issue, but we should focus more on fixing that issue. I see this mod turning softer and softer each update, especially with only edible food now spawning.

[deepfried 95]

Its true that its not particularly challenging at the moment, the zombies seem about as lethal as gnats and there is more food spawning than I know what to do with.  But this is basically a balance issue, and balance is something for beta in the main, at the moment they're still focused on bugs and features.

[Katana67 2907]

Want to stop server hoppers? Try solution 134 of 1000.

 

Weapons aren't the problem.

 

Want to stop duping? Fix effing duping.

 

Make "military" stuff rare, sure. I'm all for that. But don't act like it's the root of all these problems you cite.

Edited August 14, 2014 by Katana67

[gibonez 3633]

The weapon selection in the game thus far is really civilian focused and the actual weapons are unique and do not fit the mold of 99 percent of the Bro shooters in the market.

 

Sadly yea some aspects of the game are too military focused such as the clothing but I am sure with time especially once they get the loot management system up and running they can make all military items everything from mil clothing to military pistols and rifles severely controlled and restricted.

 

I have little fear that Dayz Standalone will turn into a bro shooter by having a heavy military focus like the mod did. Standalone seems to be focusing on the survivors just being ordinary players not ex special forces commandos who just survive by precision sniper fire and outflanking other ex commandos.

[Katana67 2907]

The weapon selection in the game thus far is really civilian focused and the actual weapons are unique and do not fit the mold of 99 percent of the Bro shooters in the market.

 

/facepalm

 

Again, most of the weapons included in DayZ, and weapons you've been a proponent of in the past, are hallmarks of "99 percent of bro shooters."

 

If anything, it's a 50/50 balance.

[billyangstadt 272]

The problem I'm talking about is the amount of potential spawn nodes the for high end gear. Right now there are thousands, if not more. That means that the rarest item will spawn a few time on the restart..and even more once loot re spawn is added and stable. Making military spawns static just screams for server hopping. Move them to heli crashes and random survivor sites..you'll see that number go way down.

[Katana67 2907]

The problem I'm talking about is the amount of potential spawn nodes the for high end gear. Right now there are thousands, if not more. That means that the rarest item will spawn a few time on the restart..and even more once loot re spawn is added and stable. Making military spawns static just screams for server hopping. Move them to heli crashes and random survivor sites..you'll see that number go way down.

 

Okay, so if server hopping is a problem in tandem with a certain loot distribution... why would it not be appropriate to just fix server hopping?

 

You're chopping the whole tree down rather than pruning a few branches.

[killerpixel 49]

In all honesty tho....what else is there?

 

I mean yeah, all the survival additions are nice, but I can only fish so much and hunt so many animals. Eventually I will reach the point where it's either stop playing, or look for PvP...and for that you need the shiny weapons.

 

This will all get "better" once there's stuff to actively do. Build a proper camp or barricade some houses...find and fix vehicles....the likes.

 

I'm not worried. Let them toss the loot in there while they fix the core of the game. Then balance it, once it's all there.

[gibonez 3633]

The problem I'm talking about is the amount of potential spawn nodes the for high end gear. Right now there are thousands, if not more. That means that the rarest item will spawn a few time on the restart..and even more once loot re spawn is added and stable. Making military spawns static just screams for server hopping. Move them to heli crashes and random survivor sites..you'll see that number go way down.

 

Give it time man.

 

I am sure once the loot control system is in place going to a Military base will result in nothing if all of the rifle slots are out in the wild already.

[Katana67 2907]

In all honesty tho....what else is there?

 

Either way, either way... and this is where people who make the argument that "military gear = fewer/worse/whatever survival mechanics" are at massive fault.

 

Having an M4A1 in my hands doesn't remove the need for food and water.

 

Having a tactical vest doesn't make my avatar immune to all diseases.

 

Having a scope on my M40A5 doesn't give me ammunition.

 

Having NVGs doesn't make you invincible.

 

I mean, military gear doesn't make survival any less of an effort in terms of the overall factors which weigh on survival. Doesn't matter if I'm bagging a deer with a Mosin or a Mk 17, I'm still in need of food. Survival mechanics are dependent on needs, not gear.

Edited August 14, 2014 by Katana67

[Ramblin Hans 118]

People will always try to be the leetest, the first to level cap, take down the biggest raid boss, or have the best KD. It's what this modern generation of gamers are focused on. In DayZ that translates to having full camo set + kitted m4 ... "fully geared". I try not to let what other people spend all their time obsessing over ruin my gaming experience, I do what I do, they do what they do. 

 

Fixing cheats is a separate, but admittedly related issue. It is related because the of the common sentiment I describe above, many modern games will simply rationalize their "need" to cheat. "I can't compete, everyone else is duping so I have to". "It took so long to get all this best gear, I can't afford to lose it, I need to get ESP", etc .That being said, I fully agree with Katana - fix the problems, don't try to fix the driver.

 

On the plus side, hopefully people who only play to have the leetest set of gear will quickly tire and leave when they get frustrated cause a guy with a Blaze wiped out all their server hoppin' efforts in one bullet  :)

[dashender7 78]

This is an excellent thread so far with a lot of good level-headed thoughts.  What about private "shard" servers that are password protected with whitelisting that seems to be upcoming very soon?

 

Don't you guys think that will pretty much be the end of this problem? 

 

I too, feel that server hopping KOS'ing, military loot hoarding, griefing clans and groups (even individuals) that live for PVP can often ruin the essence of what makes this game special and potentially different in a great way from the vast selection of mindless shooters.

 

Seems that private servers with their own "hive" that are allowed to regulate play style and ban/ whitelist players will solve this, (as well as server hopping) and the PVP pre-adolescents can go get their fix while others of us do our thing focused more on player interaction and survival.  Right?

[KingOfTime 267]

What the OP suggests is actually very interesting to me. It would force players to move around the map constantly(if random heli spawns are implemented). Although I don't think weapons spawns should be(or will ever be) completely removed form military bases, just reduced further. If nothing else, this change could make a great mod when DayZ is finished.

[billyangstadt 272]

Either way, either way... and this is where people who make the argument that "military gear = fewer/worse/whatever survival mechanics" are at massive fault.

 

Having an M4A1 in my hands doesn't remove the need for food and water.

 

Having a tactical vest doesn't make my avatar immune to all diseases.

 

Having a scope on my M40A5 doesn't give me ammunition.

 

Having NVGs doesn't make you invincible.

 

I mean, military gear doesn't make survival any less of an effort in terms of the overall factors which weigh on survival. Doesn't matter if I'm bagging a deer with a Mosin or a Mk 17, I'm still in need of food. Survival mechanics are dependent on needs, not gear.

 

Having all of that high end gear gives you an insane advantage to the needs above, though. My point is, all of that shit should be super rare and very, very limited on where you can find it. 

[Katana67 2907]

What the OP suggests is actually very interesting to me. It would force players to move around the map constantly(if random heli spawns are implemented). Although I don't think weapons spawns should be(or will ever be) completely removed form military bases, just reduced further. If nothing else, this change could make a great mod when DayZ is finished.

 

The weapons, are, and will be tiered in such a way as to make it (at the very least) a three-pronged approach. So it makes sense to have them be spawning in residential buildings, military buildings, and then dynamically.

 

You'll have so-called civilian, a middle area (likely M&P), and then some sort of "high-end."

 

Apparently, the original plan was to have "civilian", "M&P," and then "black market."

[Katana67 2907]

Having all of that high end gear gives you an insane advantage to the needs above, though. My point is, all of that shit should be super rare and very, very limited on where you can find it. 

 

How? I'd agree that it gives you an advantage (because that's what it's supposed to do), but not an "insane" advantage.

 

That's the entire crux of DayZ's tension in my opinion. I can be killed in one smack by some dude with a Mosin with iron sights, even if I have a kitted out M4A1 and NVGs.

 

And again... traditional survival mechanics (food/water and medicine/disease) do not care if you've got an M240 or a rock in your hands.

 

That and one's definition of "high-end" is subjective. I personally don't think there's much of an argument for things like assault rifles being anything more than mid-tier weapons.

[Halven (DayZ) 11]

I completely agree with you, i personally think that all the automatic weapons ruin the feeling of the game.
I wish there only was bows, pistols, single bolts, shotguns and melee weapons.

[gibonez 3633]

I completely agree with you, i personally think that all the automatic weapons ruin the feeling of the game.

I wish there only was bows, pistols, single bolts, shotguns and melee weapons.

 

Yup the more low tech the stuff is in the game the more survival plays a role.

 

Really jarring to see a "survivor" with a fully kitted out AKM with bipods and a drum magazine fully decked out in military gear when the game supposedly takes place in a harsh desolate world where basic necessities are all but gone and humans are just struggling to survive.

[cpan 2]

Came here to agree.  We have enough military games.

 

If the military loot were super rare I think that would promote less KOS.  I don't know how much less but coming across survivors and actually assessing your situation is tense, getting sniped walking down a road isn't.

 

Is this guy in a plaid shirt and baseball cap a threat?  Can I negotiate a trade?  Maybe he has an extra can opener!  I'm all about the player interaction and actually surviving.  And sure, having a base for your clan or roaming clans with shootouts is great, I hate getting sniped out of nowhere for no reason when my character doesn't pose a threat.  Sure I know that this will happen regardless and will happen but all the time gets old.  I have CS:GO for that or a crap ton of other shooters I can log on to.

 

Survive on brothers and sisters!

-cpan

[pilgrim* 3514]

..//..

Move all military weaponry/attachments exclusively to heli crash sites. I'd like to see someone server hop a crash site. Yes, it's possible, but extremely improbable to actually find one in the exact same spot that hasn't been touched.

..//..

Spotting a player with a kitted out M4 should be a "holy S*it, I haven't seen one in weeks" moment. Not a "Oh, look..another one"

..//..

 

What you suggest is already being put into action to some extent. M4s only spawn at heli crash sites at present, as far as I know.

So among honest players M4s are already "Holy Shit" rare and valued (but not a great gun IMO) - look on this forum today you will see players boasting about their M4 they have kept for weeks, or their M4 that they just lost after weeks.

 

Nearly all of the M4s you see in the game now are duped. Duping is a BIG problem, together with other forms of hacking. This is a major drive for the developers, as people are starting to say that it is ruining the game.. although cheats and duping are mainly seen on the most popular servers.. if you go for "survival" on a server that has a range of from 6 to 15 players, I don't think you will be bothered by cheaters a lot, because it's not interesting to them.

 

You will see hoppers in ALL high-value loot sites, but I (myself)  don't mind them.. the loot is being distributed around the players I guess.. they don't collect 10 guns each.. also, you can always fight them and take their gear, if you want that kind of gear.

 

No one is hopping to hunt or fish as far as I know.

Edited August 15, 2014 by pilgrim

[hothtimeblues 128]

Putting 50 zombies in every town that run if you shoot a weapon would prevent a lot of pvp.

[applejaxc 2500]

I think this is the first not completely terrible suggestion I've ever seen for reducing the amount of military gear. Granted, this is going to turn heli crash sights into all-out hatchet war zones (which is not a completely terrible thing), it is pretty smart. If the game became more about melee weapons (after melee is not completely shit >.> Rocket I'm looking at you) and civilian-grade low-calibre or bolt-action weapons, it would be a lot more interesting. As sad as it is to admit, military gear saturation makes the game boring.

Edited August 15, 2014 by Applejaxc

[gibonez 3633]

 civilian-grade low-calibre or bolt-action weapons, it would be a lot more interest.

 

Yea they are already doing some of this and its awesome.

 

Adding more low tier weapons would make the game better. They start adding tons of high end military weapons and the game just turns into battlefield or any modern mass market shooter with zombies thrown in.

[Katana67 2907]

They start adding tons of high end military weapons and the game just turns into battlefield or any modern mass market shooter with zombies thrown in.

 

What about the super duper high-end hyper rarity you just mentioned?

 

Hrm?

 

Again, again, again, like... again... the mere presence of a weapon (or weapon type) doesn't have anything to do with how rare it is, will be, or should be. And again, last I checked, they have already thrown in a hefty assortment of "military" weapons.

Edited August 15, 2014 by Katana67

[applejaxc 2500]

They start adding tons of high end military weapons and the game just turns into battlefield

But you trade terrible kill delays for massive desync, broken zombies, and hackers. Oh wait, you still have those terrible kill delays.