Should hopper zombies be removed for now before the next stable patch?

[Jesterarts 85]

Name and reputation on the line? *Cough* ALPHA *cough*

No ones reputation is on the line because there is a screen at the very start of the game that you need to click 'I Understand' to acknowledge this is a testing version of a future product.

And the zombie bug is hardly 'ridiculously broken'. It's a minor inconvenience at most.

Ridiculously broken would be if every time you saw one there was a 50/50 chance the game crashed. This would be a reason to remove them as it would prevent people from being able to perform further testing both of the game in it's entirety and the zombies themselves.

Just out of sheer curiosity, given you are quite opinionated on bug management and how software testing works. What is your experience in this space?

And I will preempt you throwing the same question back at me and answer it in advance.

I've been in the IT industry for just under 8 years, currently manage a 1.5 million dollar production facility at an e-learning firm and have spend most of my career working with front-end and design teams on B2B and B2C soltuions. No direct game development experience but I often work with freelances that are game development specialists, usually from a 3D and artwork background.

That is the knowledge I reflect on when stating my opinions.

Your turn.

[Jesterarts 85]

"In software dev, you don't remove functionality that has a known bug during development to address that bug. You keep testing to see if there are any other bugs."

The exact opposite is true. 

 

The bug could be hiding other bugs, you have no idea as to its impacts on the testing. They likely have dozens of features that they are not putting in any build because of bugs, by your reasoning, they would all be in public. Put the bugs in public so people can "test" them. lol

 

I do not care if they remove the zombies or not, but your reasoning  is wrong and your attitude kind of hilarious.

 

You guys are REALLY struggling with this whole 'ALPHA Testing' concept.

Yes, they absolutely will have functionality in internal testing that is not released to EXP or STABLE as they have bugs that would prevent further testing OR it makes no sense to put them in as there is not benefit from a holistic perspective.

The issue described in this thread however, is not something that in any way prevent the zombies providing testing data in their current state. Thus why logically they would stay in.

The thing is that zombies are just objects. Think beyond how these objects are represented visually but rather from a coding perspective what benefits are there to having more objects in the game.

For example, the benefits of keeping them in are:

1. Testing server loads

2. Given they move faster, testing rendering performance

3. Since they have a different way of interactive with the player, testing that those interactions are occurring as intended. The zombie strikes and you get hit

 

The top item is probably the biggest benefit as given server loads and the number of objects that exist in the game are both areas that need to be thoroughly tested, they can either introduce more other assets to replace the zombie objects or just save themselves the editing and keep them in.

Pathfinding is a tiny, tiny part of the testing and given zombies are already rare and these ones even rarer. There is simply no point to removing them.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure I've covered my point of view and don't see any point to furthering this stupid argument as I will clearly be beaten by those with more experience behind them discussing things at that level.

Edited July 30, 2014 by Jesterarts

[emigrates 261]

Regardless of the rules of this forum, there's little more to say to this discussion than.. alpha. We're here to test, bugs will be in-game and if you want a pristine game, then DayZ Standalone or any other alpha release is not for you. Suck it up, buttercup.

[soulfirez 901]

I disagree. If things are ridiculously broken like a monkey zombie jumping through walls and hitting you facing the wrong direction, then you remove it from testing because your name and reputation is on the line and its an insult to all the hard work they put in the walking zombies that are now more fixed.

How am I stupid for wanting higher standards in the game? My fucking goal is for you and me to have a better gaming experience. This is a stupid conversation is what you probably meant. Your defense of the crappy monkey zombies staying in the game is illogical.

The funny shit is, you can call me stupid but not be banned from the forum, but Im likely to be banned for speaking up about DayZ problems.

 

 

"In software dev, you don't remove functionality that has a known bug during development to address that bug. You keep testing to see if there are any other bugs."

The exact opposite is true. 

 

The bug could be hiding other bugs, you have no idea as to its impacts on the testing. They likely have dozens of features that they are not putting in any build because of bugs, by your reasoning, they would all be in public. Put the bugs in public so people can "test" them. lol

 

I do not care if they remove the zombies or not, but your reasoning  is wrong and your attitude kind of hilarious.

You guys really need to learn what an alpha is and how development works in an alpha. Pack it full of features till it breaks then fix it so it runs and keep putting the features in till you have everything you want then hello beta bug fixing time and maybe a few smaller not yet added features. Only the trully testing destroying bugs get squashed in alpha.

 

Thats right its not a game is a testing phase its fucking alpha you signed up to it you agree to it. If the feature with  bug doesnt completely destroy functionality you keep it in and why so when you are testing your fix for the bug you see if that breaks anything else.

 

But damn we have reached the age of self entitled prats who dont read warnings dont know what an alpha is and as such think they have rights in regards to the development well guess what you have 1 right the right to test an early release alpha..

[q.S Sachiel 470]

don't kill hopper zombie. is unicorn of dayZ!

but honestly, these guys are hillarious.  Reminds me of the good old days when they used to run at you in the wierd flailing arm mode.

And whatever happened to broken neck zombies that slide along on their bellies like snakes.

 

I refuse to accept your 'final solution' for the much loved hopper.

In all seriousness, they're so rare and just as broken as everything else imo, not to mention they hit like pansies...

and if you're dying to zombies, dear god.

Edited July 30, 2014 by q.S Sachiel

[Jex 1104]

I want hopper zombies gone altogether. Why would an infected person, dead or alive be walking like an ape?? Personally i would much rather a slow crawler or a limping zombie. Did devs watch Blade 2 and thought "oooh those vampires walk like monkeys, lets make our zombies walk like that."

 

Why would there be an infected person?

[ld-airgrafix 403]

Why would there be an infected person?

because thats what they are infected. We all call them zombies but zombies are dead, these arent.

[Shrub Rocketeer ™ 879]

stable build should be FOR THE STABLE FEATURE ONLY if feature coming on experiment but is with the bug IT MUST STAY ON EXPERIMENT TILL THE FIX. is obvious logical thing

[Jex 1104]

because thats what they are infected. We all call them zombies but zombies are dead, these arent.

 

So why wouldn't there be hopper zombies?

[Jex 1104]

stable build should be FOR THE STABLE FEATURE ONLY if feature coming on experiment but is with the bug IT MUST STAY ON EXPERIMENT TILL THE FIX. is obvious logical thing

 

Oh dear god can you go and get some experience in coding and software development and then come back and tell us all how a game should be made please?

[jaytron 9]

As I said, if something is not causing CRITICAL issues with the game in terms of errors there is no point to removing it. Especially when there are SO many benefits to keeping it in from a testing perspective.

Being hit by one of these hoppers and pushed thru a wall and being stuck, (only to fill out a help ticket for a dev to respawn you or wait to die) is CRITICAL

[Shrub Rocketeer ™ 879]

no stable test is need for hopper because me and my frend was attack thru the walls yesterday and many other person see the hopper don't stop for the wall or door, is not ready for stable because is not stable. keep in experiment one more time and see why is problem and find the fix then when is look like no problem put in stable version for all player to enjoy don't put in stable when it will maybe ruin game for some persons when we all know is broke feature and is need repair

Edited July 30, 2014 by Shrub Rocketeer ™

[Myth1184 3]

I find being hit by a zombie that is a good 20 feet behind you is more annoying than the hoppers who walk through walls n doors.

it drives me absolutely nuts when theres a zed in the distance coming at me,and they do their swing when they are a good 20 feet away and my screen flashes grey from being hit. If I cant hit them with melee, they shouldnt be able to hit me, but, whatever

[Zed's Dead 67]

Name and reputation on the line? *Cough* ALPHA *cough*

No ones reputation is on the line because there is a screen at the very start of the game that you need to click 'I Understand' to acknowledge this is a testing version of a future product.

And the zombie bug is hardly 'ridiculously broken'. It's a minor inconvenience at most.

Ridiculously broken would be if every time you saw one there was a 50/50 chance the game crashed. This would be a reason to remove them as it would prevent people from being able to perform further testing both of the game in it's entirety and the zombies themselves.

Just out of sheer curiosity, given you are quite opinionated on bug management and how software testing works. What is your experience in this space?

And I will preempt you throwing the same question back at me and answer it in advance.

I've been in the IT industry for just under 8 years, currently manage a 1.5 million dollar production facility at an e-learning firm and have spend most of my career working with front-end and design teams on B2B and B2C soltuions. No direct game development experience but I often work with freelances that are game development specialists, usually from a 3D and artwork background.

That is the knowledge I reflect on when stating my opinions.

Your turn.

Well then if these monkey zombies going through walls and hitting us from the wrong direction after 8 months of development is an acceptable standard to your multi million dollar IT experience, then Im sure as hell glad I dont work in your company.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Well then if these monkey zombies going through walls and hitting us from the wrong direction after 8 months of development is an acceptable standard to your multi million dollar IT experience, then Im sure as hell glad I dont work in your company.

Bitch when it's at full release.  Until then get back in the backseat and stfu.

[PongoZ 127]

You guys are REALLY struggling with this whole 'ALPHA Testing' concept.

Yes, they absolutely will have functionality in internal testing that is not released to EXP or STABLE as they have bugs that would prevent further testing OR it makes no sense to put them in as there is not benefit from a holistic perspective.

The issue described in this thread however, is not something that in any way prevent the zombies providing testing data in their current state. Thus why logically they would stay in.

The thing is that zombies are just objects. Think beyond how these objects are represented visually but rather from a coding perspective what benefits are there to having more objects in the game.

For example, the benefits of keeping them in are:

1. Testing server loads

2. Given they move faster, testing rendering performance

3. Since they have a different way of interactive with the player, testing that those interactions are occurring as intended. The zombie strikes and you get hit

 

The top item is probably the biggest benefit as given server loads and the number of objects that exist in the game are both areas that need to be thoroughly tested, they can either introduce more other assets to replace the zombie objects or just save themselves the editing and keep them in.

Pathfinding is a tiny, tiny part of the testing and given zombies are already rare and these ones even rarer. There is simply no point to removing them.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure I've covered my point of view and don't see any point to furthering this stupid argument as I will clearly be beaten by those with more experience behind them discussing things at that level.

 

Oh, thanks for explaining that, I would have thought they could test load by increasing the spawn rate of the zombies that work, but clearly from your expertise they cannot do that. So its these buggy bunnies or nothing I guess.

For a second there I thought you were just reflexively supporting anything that rocket did, cause you were some kind of ass kisser or something, but now I see you are indeed an expert at game development and deployment. 

Thanks for sharing your expertise!

[ld-airgrafix 403]

So why wouldn't there be hopper zombies?

Because humans walk upright not like monkeys.

[Katana67 2907]

I'd rather they remove them until they get a good animation, not because they're buggy. The animation for the hoppers is absolutely atrocious, I prefer the mod's mindless flailing to the new monkey jog. And that's saying something.

 

I have nothing against hopper zombies, but I really cannot speak highly of their past or present animations.

Edited July 30, 2014 by Katana67

[Zed's Dead 67]

Bitch when it's at full release. Until then get back in the backseat and stfu.

Awesome, We can tell each other to shut the fuck up and its not against the forum rules? Thats constructive man.

I guess this is where I apologize for not understanding why they should not remove monkey zombies. This is pure insanity.

[Zed's Dead 67]

You guys are REALLY struggling with this whole 'ALPHA Testing' concept.

Yes, they absolutely will have functionality in internal testing that is not released to EXP or STABLE as they have bugs that would prevent further testing OR it makes no sense to put them in as there is not benefit from a holistic perspective.

The issue described in this thread however, is not something that in any way prevent the zombies providing testing data in their current state. Thus why logically they would stay in.

The thing is that zombies are just objects. Think beyond how these objects are represented visually but rather from a coding perspective what benefits are there to having more objects in the game.

For example, the benefits of keeping them in are:

1. Testing server loads

2. Given they move faster, testing rendering performance

3. Since they have a different way of interactive with the player, testing that those interactions are occurring as intended. The zombie strikes and you get hit

.

I appreciate your reasoning but...

1. Why not add more walking zeds that are now fixed to test server loads and remove the monkey zombies.

2. Ok, you got me on this.... Or... Why not make walking zombies faster?

3. I dont get how any data is useful from monkey zombies that are terribly broken. The object does not resemble anything that will be in the final game. What is useful about being hit from 20 feet away by a monkey zombie that does not obey Collision like the walking zeds are? I feel that they can get more meaningful data from walking zeds

Edited July 31, 2014 by Zed's Dead

[Jesterarts 85]

I appreciate your reasoning but...

1. Why not add more walking zeds that are now fixed to test server loads and remove the monkey zombies.

2. Ok, you got me on this.... Or... Why not make walking zombies faster?

3. I dont get how any data is useful from monkey zombies that are terribly broken. The object does not resemble anything that will be in the final game. What is useful about being hit from 20 feet away by a monkey zombie that does not obey Collision like the walking zeds are? I feel that they can get more meaningful data from walking zeds

 

1. Because this requires them to change something

2. Because this requires them to change something

3. Never been hit by a hopper form 20 feet away.

My point is, the dev team have 2 options:

1. Invest time removing the hopper zombies, cranking up spawn rates for the regular zombies and increasing their speed, etc

-or-

 

2. Invest time in none of those things and get the exact same testing data.

If I have the option of not doing something or doing something and regardless achieving the same result, the choice is obvious.

Any moment they invest in removing the hopper zombies is time they could use addressing something else. And then down the track they will have to invest time to put them back in. And based on this forum they are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

If the leave the zombies people like yourself with start threads like this, if the take the time to pull them out and put them back in later at the cost of faster development of other features, you'll start threads like your other one about how slow they are working.

[Jex 1104]

Because humans walk upright not like monkeys.

 

Oh so they're humans now are they?

[ld-airgrafix 403]

I dont want to start a thread bitching about .47 update, so i will just have my little rant here as it involves a hopper zombie.

First off, fuck you hopper zombies, with that off my chest i will a little better.

Why dont the devs simply revert this game to 0.46 go away for few months and then release an update. 0.47 is not a stable update but a step back.

Everytime i start enjoying this game, they stuff it up with these buggy updates. Oh well another few months of no playing dayz again

[ld-airgrafix 403]

Oh so they're humans now are they?

What the hell are u on about, i said regardless if a human is infected or a human is dead and reanimated back as a zombie, it will not walk like a monkey. Is that really too hard to understand. Im sorry i sometimes forget im dealing with primary school kids

[Jex 1104]

1. Because this requires them to change something

2. Because this requires them to change something

3. Never been hit by a hopper form 20 feet away.

My point is, the dev team have 2 options:

1. Invest time removing the hopper zombies, cranking up spawn rates for the regular zombies and increasing their speed, etc

-or-

 

2. Invest time in none of those things and get the exact same testing data.

If I have the option of not doing something or doing something and regardless achieving the same result, the choice is obvious.

Any moment they invest in removing the hopper zombies is time they could use addressing something else. And then down the track they will have to invest time to put them back in. And based on this forum they are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

If the leave the zombies people like yourself with start threads like this, if the take the time to pull them out and put them back in later at the cost of faster development of other features, you'll start threads like your other one about how slow they are working.

 

Not only this but they're put in  a new feature so it's here to stay now, bugs and all which is what you do in an alpha stage of development. Now they are getting data back about how they're working and what the issues are.

 

Let's also dispel this "stable" version bollocks.

 

NOTHING is stable on an alpha release! People here think that STABLE means it's going to work flawlessly - it isn't, get used to it, STABLE still means bugs and things broken.