The state of M4A1's

[brumey 116]

M4's are exclusive to exploiter/duper Clans!

[stinkenheim 249]

No they aren't.

My regular character has an m4, and has had since the patch before heli crashes was added.

I don't dupe/hack but I also don't get into gun fights with every single player I meet. I'm down to about 40 bullets now so it probably won't last much longer, although I've also got a mosin so I can observe areas and potentially eliminate threats before getting in range of my m4.

So yeah, there are a lot of people who dupe/hack their gear but that doesn't mean every single player with an m4 is automatically cheating.

[foxdie_01 121]

I wouldn't lose a second of sleep over them removing the M4 for good, or at least from regular loot stables making it a restricted only item. There are a plethora of civilian and eastern block weapons that would be better fit for the game.

The only reason I think its keeps appearing in dayz through its various incarnations is to appease the extremely vocal American player base.

[kakysas666 191]

Even though I like m4 as I think it is 10 times better than AKM, but I would't cry if they removed it seriously. But they won't because le americans would be upset.

[lumo1234 68]

Honestly people stating western guns are only in to please the Americans are silly... Dayz carries on from arma 2 campaign... NATO was in cherno... Sorry guys sure make the NATO weapons and ammo rarer than the eastern block weapons and ammo but they need to be in due to this fact.

[foxdie_01 121]

Other than broadly sharing the same map, whats the official relationship or story linking Arma2 to Dayz? I be interested in seeing something from an official source.

[Etherimp 1323]

Honestly people stating western guns are only in to please the Americans are silly... Dayz carries on from arma 2 campaign... NATO was in cherno... Sorry guys sure make the NATO weapons and ammo rarer than the eastern block weapons and ammo but they need to be in due to this fact.

 

 

Another thing a lot of these guys fail to realize is that Cherno is just 1 map.... There could be other maps made, including an American based map, or a Japanese based map.. The weapons they add or don't add are really just up to the Dev team.

[foxdie_01 121]

I'd actually like to see expansions in the future based on a US map, fill your boots with western rifles then!

[funky_mish 75]

Wow, the "should the M4 be in Chernarus?" discussion again.

 

The M4 was put into the game because it was the best gun to test multiple attachments on in the early stages of development, remember? It has nothing to do with lore, or where Chernarus is in the world, or if the US military were there. It's just testing.

 

I look forward to making this post again in a couple of months' time.

[Etherimp 1323]

Wow, the "should the M4 be in Chernarus?" discussion again.

 

The M4 was put into the game because it was the best gun to test multiple attachments on in the early stages of development, remember? It has nothing to do with lore, or where Chernarus is in the world, or if the US military were there. It's just testing.

 

I look forward to making this post again in a couple of months' time.

 

 

Months? You over-estimate your audience. At this very moment, there's someone writing a post about it...somewhere..

[gibonez 3633]

. There are a plethora of civilian and eastern block weapons that would be better fit for the game.

The only reason I think its keeps appearing in dayz through its various incarnations is to appease the extremely vocal American player base.

 

Hey hey hey I am an American and I have been one of the most vocal proponents for Eastern Calibers and weapons in both Civilian and military forms.

 

I would be more than happy to see an overabundance of Eastern and civilian weapons and a downright drought of Western weapons.

[pilgrim* 3514]

..//..

Chernarus is fictional, so it's not for you or me to deem what is "likely" in it. Because that is up to the people crafting the fiction and nothing else.

..//..

 

That wrecked cargo steamer up the coast was full of crates of arms being shipped from [some place nobody mentions] to [some other place nobody wants to talk about] probably for reasons of 100% deniability. There is a world crisis happening, right? And nobody is going to turn up to reclaim that stuff: these weapons don't have serial numbers.

Edited July 28, 2014 by pilgrim

[xerpa 7]

I made a tour by the whole 74 helicrash sites .... (in the same server and same server restart) anything was encountered ... so there´s no choice, just sit and wait for the fix .... the most powerfull to do is vote in the ticket (http://feedback.dayzgame.com/view.php?id=13927) to improve his visibility for the Devs ..

[kakysas666 191]

Honestly people stating western guns are only in to please the Americans are silly... Dayz carries on from arma 2 campaign... NATO was in cherno... Sorry guys sure make the NATO weapons and ammo rarer than the eastern block weapons and ammo but they need to be in due to this fact.

 

I guess you forgot that this isn't arma 2 mod. It is STAND ALONE. Standing alone.

[lumo1234 68]

I guess you forgot that this isn't arma 2 mod. It is STAND ALONE. Standing alone.

Then why the fuck is it on the same map? Dickhead.

[foxdie_01 121]

Then why the fuck is it on the same map? Dickhead.

 

No need to get aggressive. Just because it shares a location, doesn;t mean it shares a history. Ever read a fictional book or movie? Sometimes they're set in the same places but don't all share a back story.

 

I mean how did the "Jason Bourne" climb that building in Washington when it was clearly destroyed in "independence day".

[pilgrim* 3514]

Then why the fuck is it on the same map? Dickhead.

 

Economy of effort, resource management, not having to work out the distances on the roadsigns again. Peabrain.

Edited July 28, 2014 by pilgrim

[crazykage 1063]

I just don't understand why some people think that the M4, in its current state in game, isn't WRONG!

yeah, ok. So with pristine attachments, you can pick off, with some difficulty, targets up to 300 meters away.

Yeeeaaaah. I can do the exact same, with relative ease (IRL), using nothing but the stock weapon and iron sights, at FIVE hundred meters. Now, ill grant you, that's real life. NOT in game.

But why do we have this in game at all? Its arbitrary. Its unrealistic. It caters to a "casual" style of gameplay. Instead of compensating for real life skill and training in game by utilizing some sort of skill based mechanic, we instead have to search and search for attachments that arbitrarily increase accuracy, not by making the gun itself easier to shoot (say, by having a bipod reduce weapon sway or a heavy barrel reduce muzzle climb), but by changing the actual algorithms that govern bullet travel angles to reduce spread. And EVEN THEN random chance will just screw you over and send your shot wide of your target.

Frankly (and this is ASSUMING the devs don't have plans to fix it) its just lazy development. Attachments should make my guns easier to USE, not slightly decrease a random deviation that skill or not, I have ZERO control over.

And don't EVEN get me started on that whole argument "but our characters aren't military guys, so they should have no idea how to shoot..." Our characters are whoever and whatever the hell we, the player, WANT them to be, and that kind of deliberate handicap serves ONLY to level the playing field, punishing, at random, players who did everything right and deserve to be rewarded with a kill, while rewarding, randomly, players who should have known better.

And forget, for a moment, killing other players. What about zombies? I might need to be able to hit my target reliably and accurately. Or hunting?

Its the main issue that is keeping me from playing right now. I cant TEST anything out because the items I want to test are stupidly rare. And I cant really PLAY because the one thing to do when I get geared up (hunt other players) I CANT do because I know I will randomly miss my shot for no reason.

[Etherimp 1323]

I just don't understand why some people think that the M4, in its current state in game, isn't WRONG!

yeah, ok. So with pristine attachments, you can pick off, with some difficulty, targets up to 300 meters away.

Yeeeaaaah. I can do the exact same, with relative ease (IRL), using nothing but the stock weapon and iron sights, at FIVE hundred meters. Now, ill grant you, that's real life. NOT in game.

But why do we have this in game at all? Its arbitrary. Its unrealistic. It caters to a "casual" style of gameplay. Instead of compensating for real life skill and training in game by utilizing some sort of skill based mechanic, we instead have to search and search for attachments that arbitrarily increase accuracy, not by making the gun itself easier to shoot (say, by having a bipod reduce weapon sway or a heavy barrel reduce muzzle climb), but by changing the actual algorithms that govern bullet travel angles to reduce spread. And EVEN THEN random chance will just screw you over and send your shot wide of your target.

Frankly (and this is ASSUMING the devs don't have plans to fix it) its just lazy development. Attachments should make my guns easier to USE, not slightly decrease a random deviation that skill or not, I have ZERO control over.

And don't EVEN get me started on that whole argument "but our characters aren't military guys, so they should have no idea how to shoot..." Our characters are whoever and whatever the hell we, the player, WANT them to be, and that kind of deliberate handicap serves ONLY to level the playing field, punishing, at random, players who did everything right and deserve to be rewarded with a kill, while rewarding, randomly, players who should have known better.

And forget, for a moment, killing other players. What about zombies? I might need to be able to hit my target reliably and accurately. Or hunting?

Its the main issue that is keeping me from playing right now. I cant TEST anything out because the items I want to test are stupidly rare. And I cant really PLAY because the one thing to do when I get geared up (hunt other players) I CANT do because I know I will randomly miss my shot for no reason.

 

 

I agree 100%..

 

If you take the two sides of the argument to their extremes you see which one is logical/right.

 

 

Here's the counter-argument: "DISPERSION IS CUZ WE'RE CIVILIANS NOT MILITARY TRAINED WE WILL NOT KNOW HOW TO HANDLE WEAPON CUZ WEAPONS HARD."

 

If you crank the dispersion up to maximum (say, 1,000,000), shots fly out of the gun in a random direction and anything you hit is purely luck.

 

If you crank the dispersion down to 0, shots fly straight out of the gun and you hit exactly what you were aiming at, which is purely skill.

 

Less randomness = better game mechanics.

 

Games should be skill based not luck based.

[Jex 1104]

m4's are now exclusive hackers weapon only.

 

You can try to kill a hacker in Berezino/Novo to get one tho

 

No they are not. I have one! (i think i do anyway) I shot a guy in the head with my sks at the nwaf and took his M4 but I haven't logged in for 3 months maybe more. So I have one with normal ammo mags as well :)

[kakysas666 191]

Then why the fuck is it on the same map? Dickhead.

 

because it was easier to copy than make an original? Map is the only similarity to mod.

[pilgrim* 3514]

..//..

And I cant really PLAY because the one thing to do when I get geared up (hunt other players) I CANT do because I know I will randomly miss my shot for no reason.

 

There's an equal chance that you might randomly hit your shot for no reason

unless you"re a really unlucky person

 

hunt them with an axe

or get closer before you shoot..

if they shoot first they'll miss you anyway, right ?

Edited July 28, 2014 by pilgrim

[Etherimp 1323]

There's an equal chance that you might randomly hit your shot for no reason

unless you"re a really unlucky person

 

hunt them with an axe

or get closer before you shoot..

if they shoot first they'll miss you anyway, right ?

 

 

Shooter mechanics should not be random. Does not reflect RL, and does not reflect good game-design or game-play. 

[pilgrim* 3514]

Shooter mechanics should not be random. Does not reflect RL, and does not reflect good game-design or game-play. 

 

point and click then

you point at it you hit it end of story  ... 

Edited July 28, 2014 by pilgrim

[crazykage 1063]

There's an equal chance that you might randomly hit your shot for no reason

unless you"re a really unlucky person

 

hunt them with an axe

or get closer before you shoot..

if they shoot first they'll miss you anyway, right ?

And THATS the OTHER problem: You are correct! If I do NOT take a careful, well aimed shot, and hit my target anyway, not because I was lucky and ACCIDENTLY did it right, but because a random number decided that my impact point would be HERE instead of there, that's just as bad! I mentioned this a while back in another thread, but this isn't just arbitrary, its also disrespectful to BOTH players. I expect to be rewarded for my efforts with success. But on the other hand, I respect my potential opponents enough to want the same for them: if I made a dumb move, or decided to take a risk I shouldn't have, and another player has me in his sights, and he does EVERYTHING right, I respect that player enough to want them to be successful. I don't WANT to get lucky either! I WANT my decisions and the risks I take to have IMPACT. I DONT want to be able to run across a massive open field while my opponent 400 meters away fires shot after careful shot, singing "TROLOLOL LOLOL" all the way because I know he has next to no chance of hitting me.

And now that he has fired, and I am still alive, even though by all rights I shouldn't be, I know where he is and can make an attempt to flank, which I couldn't have done if ballistics weren't random. The repercussions for this go beyond just that initial moment.

And yes, I could get closer, but that should be a tactical choice made by me after weighing the alternatives and DECIDING that is what I want/need to do. NOT something I am forced to do by an entirely arbitrary mechanic.

I sincerely hope the devs do something about this. If they don't, I doubt very much that any other new features will keep me playing.