AKM vs SKS

[Evil Minion 943]

In theory:

 

SKS:

+ easier to find

+ does not need magazines

+ higher accuracy

 

AKM

+ more attachments

+ can fire in full automatic

+ higher ammo capacity if you found a magazine

 

In other regards like recoil or noise they should be fairly similar. In reality the SKS should do slightly more damage (longer barrel) but I don't think this will find its way into the game. However, it seems like the AKM is more accurate right now (probably a bug or due to ongoing balancing/mechanics development).

[barnabus 1708]

The muzzle break on the AKM does not seem to do what it is supposed to.  My pulls up and right something awful.  The gases are supposed to go that way to help keep it from doing it.

[SFRGaming 718]

The muzzle break on the AKM does not seem to do what it is supposed to.  My pulls up and right something awful.  The gases are supposed to go that way to help keep it from doing it.

The "Muzzle Brake" you are referencing is a part of the AK's 3D model. How could it affect your shot if its not a separate piece?

[nl 986]

Also keep in mind that right now on experimental weapon sway was enhanced, I found it very hard to hit a standing zombie with an AKM at more than 300 meters with the scope, even while prone, bipod unfolded, calm breathing and holding my breath and taking single shots. So if they don't change current weapon sway and push it to stable all automatic weapons will be pretty much useless at more than 300 meters, let alone if your target is moving.

[kakysas666 191]

AKM would be nice weaponf for sniping if it didn't have so much recoil or at least had semi-auto... for now.. well, m4 master race.

[SFRGaming 718]

AKM would be nice weaponf for sniping if it didn't have so much recoil or at least had semi-auto... for now.. well, m4 master race.

That's basically saying "The AKM would be nice if we completely changed the weapons purpose and gave it stupid stats so it can take over a roll (sniping) that other weapons were made for."

[bishopomega 30]

The game setting being in a Russian area there might be a few M4s but not many. And those not typically in good condition. SKSs, Mozins and 9mm sidearms, 22 rifles and shotguns much more common than the assault type AKs or 45 type pistols. 45s, really? Out of them all I would think an AK is much more likely to be found in Pristine condition though. Their scopes however much more rarer than a Mozin's sport type scope as that scope was not made for that weapon. I consider a Mozin an artifact. A relic that might be kept as an heirloom or on a mantle. Far fewer in Pristine condition or matched with a scope for semi-modern hunting scope. The game creators just had these available maybe. The simple absence of Nagents, Makarovs, PSMs and Tokarevs is evidence of this. Not to mention that there are 1891 Mozins but not the newer 1944 Carbine versions which I would think were much more in abundance if they had gone this route?

 

I digress though. I enjoy this game regardless but it really needs a Zombie overhaul and far less ammunition as a matter of course. 

[barnabus 1708]

The "Muzzle Brake" you are referencing is a part of the AK's 3D model. How could it affect your shot if its not a separate piece?

it's also the purpose of the muzzle break on the real AKM. It ain't there for "looks".

[SFRGaming 718]

it's also the purpose of the muzzle break on the real AKM. It ain't there for "looks".

I know, hence why I asked you for what reason do you think the muzzle brake on the AKM should be functional if it's not a separate part.

[Katana67 2907]

I think i'm getting what you're saying?

that the criteria for rarity should be broader, to 'spread' the values out?

 

Not necessarily broader, just based on a variety of criteria. Not one, or even a few, criteria.

 

To rephrase my argument about why I think assault rifles in particular are not worthy of being overly rare, let's just look at what they are.

 

Assault rifles are inherently, just as a concept, middle of the road weapons. The fire intermediate cartridges, which are effective at intermediate ranges, have mid-range magazine capacities, and have mid-range damage (in terms of a video game, I won't even attempt to delve into the ballistic profiles of each intermediate cartridge).

 

Point being, they're a "jack of all trades" weapon. Hence why they're used as standard issue firearms for most of the world's militaries these days. They perform with an acceptable level of proficiency in a variety of areas. They're not "the best" weapon for any one thing, other than for being applicable to a wide variety of engagements.

 

However, things like battle rifles/designated marksman rifles, GPMGs/LMGs, dedicated sniper rifles, all have a more niche application and are arguably the best at something specific. Battle rifles and DMRs hit harder at longer ranges. GPMGs/LMGs have massive magazines/belts. Dedicated sniper rifles are the most accurate at extreme range.

 

Assault rifles were designed to fill the gap between a submachine gun and a battle rifle. They are inherently mid-tier, just in being what they are. So for that reason, I believe they should be mid-tier loot in DayZ. Because they, in and of themselves, aren't the best at any one thing. Their main claim to fame is versatility, not being niche. Which is, granted, a valuable characteristic. But their performance is hampered by this desire for versatility, and therefore do not warrant being hyper rare in my opinion.

Edited July 14, 2014 by Katana67

[SFRGaming 718]

Not necessarily broader, just based on a variety of criteria. Not one, or even a few, criteria.

 

To rephrase my argument about why I think assault rifles in particular are not worthy of being overly rare, let's just look at what they are.

 

Assault rifles are inherently, just as a concept, middle of the road weapons. The fire intermediate cartridges, which are effective at intermediate ranges, have mid-range magazine capacities, and have mid-range damage (in terms of a video game, I won't even attempt to delve into the ballistic profiles of each intermediate cartridge).

 

Point being, they're a "jack of all trades" weapon. Hence why they're used as standard issue firearms for most of the world's militaries these days. They perform with an acceptable level of proficiency in a variety of areas. They're not "the best" weapon for any one thing, other than for being applicable to a wide variety of engagements.

 

However, things like battle rifles/designated marksman rifles, GPMGs/LMGs, dedicated sniper rifles, all have a more niche application and are arguably the best at something specific. Battle rifles and DMRs hit harder at longer ranges. GPMGs/LMGs have massive magazines/belts. Dedicated sniper rifles are the most accurate at extreme range.

 

Assault rifles were designed to fill the gap between a submachine gun and a battle rifle. They are inherently mid-tier, just in being what they are. So for that reason, I believe they should be mid-tier loot in DayZ. Because they, in and of themselves, aren't the best at any one thing. Their main claim to fame is versatility, not being niche. Which is, granted, a valuable characteristic. But their performance is hampered by this desire for versatility, and therefore do not warrant being hyper rare in my opinion.

Ahh, with your re-wording, I can say you hit the gopher in the nuts with this. 

 

With the controlled loot economy being introduced soon, I'd like to see some proficient battle rifles and DMR's being introduced. *Lore Time* With the Marines being involved in Chernarus prior to the Zed Occupation (reason for the M4A1's being in the country), I'd like to see a DMR like the M21 come into the game. As far as I know, that rifle was used among certain squads for special reason.

 

(Note this isn't me trying to be a DMR Fanboy from the Mod *which I am not*, it just makes sense.)

[Katana67 2907]

Ahh, with your re-wording, I can say you hit the gopher in the nuts with this. 

 

With the controlled loot economy being introduced soon, I'd like to see some proficient battle rifles and DMR's being introduced. *Lore Time* With the Marines being involved in Chernarus prior to the Zed Occupation (reason for the M4A1's being in the country), I'd like to see a DMR like the M21 come into the game. As far as I know, that rifle was used among certain squads for special reason.

 

(Note this isn't me trying to be a DMR Fanboy from the Mod *which I am not*, it just makes sense.)

 

Any M14 variant would be acceptable to me (be it the since disfavored/removed DMR, an EBR/EMR that have replaced their M21/DMR counterparts, or just a vanilla M14).

 

Would definitely like to see a Mk 11 and/or Mk 17 as well, along with the "European" battle rifles like the FAL and G3.

 

This is an area in which so-called "Eastern Bloc" weapon producers are distinctly lacking, DMRs and Battle Rifles. You've got the SVD and that's... pretty much it. The PSL and/or Saiga .308 are essentially just SVDs, at least aesthetically if not mechanically. At the very best, they're all derivative of the SVD and/or AK, which means they have a similar action and/or aesthetic.

 

Whereas with so-called "Western" weapon producers, there's a much wider variety of battle rifles and/or DMRs being produced which are, at the very least, aesthetically different from one another. Sort of the same way with the AK as well, you get the AK platform coming out of the Eastern Bloc and that's... pretty much it, with some minor variations here and there and the occasional bullpup AK.

 

Nothing wrong with that, but folks have to recognize that in pushing for "only Eastern Bloc" weaponry, you're working with a limited set of weapons in terms of both capability and variety. I don't expect every weapon under the sun, but I'm not going to make the assertion that weapons should be left out unless I have a logical/relevant/practical/supported reason to do so.

Edited July 14, 2014 by Katana67

[SFRGaming 718]

Any M14 variant would be acceptable to me (be it the since disfavored/removed DMR, an EBR/EMR that have replaced their M21/DMR counterparts, or just a vanilla M14).

 

Would definitely like to see a Mk 11 and/or Mk 17 as well, along with the "European" battle rifles like the FAL and G3.

 

This is an area in which so-called "Eastern Bloc" weapon producers are distinctly lacking, DMRs and Battle Rifles. You've got the SVD and that's... pretty much it. The PSL and/or Saiga .308 are essentially just SVDs, at least aesthetically if not mechanically.

 

Whereas with so-called "Western" weapon producers, there's a much wider variety of battle rifles and/or DMRs being produced which are, at the very least, aesthetically different from one another. Sort of the same way with the AK as well, you get the AK platform coming out of the Eastern Bloc and that's... pretty much it, with some minor variations here and there and the occasional bullpup AK.

 

Nothing wrong with that, but folks have to recognize that in pushing for "only Eastern Bloc" weaponry, you're working with a limited set of weapons in terms of both capability and variety. I don't expect every weapon under the sun, but I'm not going to make the assertion that weapons should be left out unless I have a logical/relevant/practical/supported reason to do so.

Yes. We don't need an assortment of weapons from WW1-WW2 in DayZ. Maybe a few that would have, logically, been saved after the war by survivors / gun collectors and museums. But majority of weapons from that time were not shipped around world-wide and big organizations such as the Warsaw, UN, and NATO didn't exist. Majority of the weapons that were made during / after these organizations were established should be logical to find in-game.

[Zombie Milkman 167]

I don't expect every weapon under the sun, but I'm not going to make the assertion that weapons should be left out unless I have a logical/relevant/practical/supported reason to do so.

 

Why not?  It fits the backdrop just as well as the names of the towns.  The absolute last thing in the world I would want is a gun that was unique or rare, both for parts (springs need replacing, for example) and ammo, in this setting.  I would be surprised if you couldn't hunt up sales for the most likely guns from the region and assign values in game right from it.  You would of course need to try and get an exported vs. domestic sales idea though.

[Katana67 2907]

Why not?  It fits the backdrop just as well as the names of the towns.  The absolute last thing in the world I would want is a gun that was unique or rare, both for parts (springs need replacing, for example) and ammo, in this setting.  I would be surprised if you couldn't hunt up sales for the most likely guns from the region and assign values in game right from it.  You would of course need to try and get an exported vs. domestic sales idea though.

 

Errr, I'm a little confused as to what you're saying.

[q.S Sachiel 470]

Yeah OK, may be just supporting your point on rarity criterion here, but take the PPSH for example, it's an old WW2 smg? and i'd expect it to be in a mostly rare state despite my expectation that it is a mostly useless weapon (being more for cities perhaps, but given cherno is like 125km^2 of forrest/hills..) save for its trench/room clearing role.

The FN FAL too, it's a great gun, but I know that most militaries swapped it out for something lighter back in the 70s.  I'd take a wild swing to say that only ex-empire nations and maybe israel use this now.  It's superb, rather heavy, but due to the lowered use of the weapon i'd see it as super rare (though may support it's accuracy and power + rarity).

 

Also, wasn't there some issue with M4 / m?? in afghanistan/iraq where the dust frequently caused jams and failures?  Some Swiss or North Euro manufactured assault rifle/bullpup.  Not the AUG... it would be good to see the reliability of a weapon also dictate rarity, though having weapon failures ala America'sArmy2, or the more +weapon durability -> +reliability method taken by STALKER  would be an interesting take on things. 

Edited July 15, 2014 by q.S Sachiel

[gibonez 3633]

Yeah OK, may be just supporting your point on rarity criterion here, but take the PPSH for example, it's an old WW2 smg? and i'd expect it to be in a mostly rare state despite my expectation that it is a mostly useless weapon (being more for cities perhaps, but given cherno is like 125km^2 of forrest/hills..) save for its trench/room clearing role.

The FN FAL too, it's a great gun, but I know that most militaries swapped it out for something lighter back in the 70s.  I'd take a wild swing to say that only ex-empire nations and maybe israel use this now.  It's superb, rather heavy, but due to the lowered use of the weapon i'd see it as super rare (though may support it's accuracy and power + rarity).

 

Also, wasn't there some issue with M4 / m?? in afghanistan/iraq where the dust frequently caused jams and failures?  Some Swiss or North Euro manufactured assault rifle/bullpup.  Not the AUG... it would be good to see the reliability of a weapon also dictate rarity, though having weapon failures ala America'sArmy2, or the more +weapon durability -> +reliability method taken by STALKER  would be an interesting take on things. 

 

You do realize the Fn Fal, the spanish cetme, and the g3 are some of the most prolific weapons of all time right ?

 

Just about every single conflict since its inception has had these 3 rifles in it.

 

These 3 battle rifles would be far more common than any modern production military issued BR.

 

Every conflict from Libya to Syria is littered with Fn Fals.

 

 

Iraqi weapons cache.

Edited July 15, 2014 by gibonez

[q.S Sachiel 470]

erps merberd.

thought most government armies stopped using them, so assumed them rarer.

is that the FAL third from left, or G3.  I'm guessing fal as G3 has more rounded handstock...

[Katana67 2907]

Yeah OK, may be just supporting your point on rarity criterion here, but take the PPSH for example, it's an old WW2 smg? and i'd expect it to be in a mostly rare state despite my expectation that it is a mostly useless weapon (being more for cities perhaps, but given cherno is like 125km^2 of forrest/hills..) save for its trench/room clearing role.

The FN FAL too, it's a great gun, but I know that most militaries swapped it out for something lighter back in the 70s.  I'd take a wild swing to say that only ex-empire nations and maybe israel use this now.  It's superb, rather heavy, but due to the lowered use of the weapon i'd see it as super rare (though may support it's accuracy and power + rarity).

 

Also, wasn't there some issue with M4 / m?? in afghanistan/iraq where the dust frequently caused jams and failures?  Some Swiss or North Euro manufactured assault rifle/bullpup.  Not the AUG... it would be good to see the reliability of a weapon also dictate rarity, though having weapon failures ala America'sArmy2, or the more +weapon durability -> +reliability method taken by STALKER  would be an interesting take on things. 

 

Meh, again, I wouldn't make the PPSh rare just because it's a relatively difficult weapon to come across in the real world nowadays (which is certainly debatable). I would probably make it common, because it isn't all that great. Hence why the PM-73 is probably going to be more common than the MP5K, because one is more modular (and perhaps more useful) than the other.

 

In other words, a weapon (for me) has to be significantly advantageous to be made rare as the prime criteria.

 

And no, the FAL isn't useless. Battle rifles are in dire need with modern militaries, hence why a lot of them are "rediscovering" the concept with different platforms (like the L129A1, EBR, Mk 17, etc.) And it's pretty widespread as well, FALs are everywhere. But that's not strictly relevant to DayZ either. The FAL was pretty much only a Commonwealth and/or Belgian weapon, which (owing to the nature of an empire) was disseminated to the previously colonized countries (aside from a few of the larger South/Latin American adopters which in certain cases now produce FALs wholesale).

 

And there's a lot of issues with a lot of weapons in Afghanistan, just the name of the game. Not really relevant to DayZ.

Edited July 15, 2014 by Katana67

[kakysas666 191]

That's basically saying "The AKM would be nice if we completely changed the weapons purpose and gave it stupid stats so it can take over a roll (sniping) that other weapons were made for."

 

I am not sure about real life, maybe IRL doesn't have semi-auto, not a gun expert, but my point is that with m4 it is much much more easier to snipe medium range up to 500 meters. I didn't say anything about changing recoil. You are reading too much into my post :) Simply some clueless people claim that AKM is >> than m4 for medium range when that is not true at all. In game m4 is master race weapon and I feel very bad for losing it.

[Katana67 2907]

erps merberd.

thought most government armies stopped using them, so assumed them rarer.

is that the FAL third from left, or G3.  I'm guessing fal as G3 has more rounded handstock...

 

Correct, it's a FAL.

[barnabus 1708]

I know, hence why I asked you for what reason do you think the muzzle brake on the AKM should be functional if it's not a separate part.

Sorry, are you saying it is there, but that it should not be functional?  The break, or the notch on the upper right quarter of the barrel is there to redirect the gases to help push the weapon down and left.  It does not do that.

[ZomboWTF 527]

*snip*

 

to be fair, no amount of crapiness could get me away from SVD and AKM if they are in the game, except for an M24 which is beast

 

they just look so good xD

 

though if there would be a VSS in the game at some point, screw everything ^^

[TheLast-StaR 16]

The Concept that NATO weapons only spawn in helicopters limits the spawning of crucial (different) Weapons.

The lack of back story to DayZ does not help us introduce NATO weapons into the Chernarus area. But throughout Arma 2 Campaign it's obvious that there was a major NATO presence. If we would assume that the "Outbreak" happened shortly after the Arma2 campaign (and ignore the fact Arma3 came out)then remnants on NATO peace keeping forces would have outpost throughout Chernarus also military checkpoints and Roadblocks.

Helicopters atm spawn M4A1 because of lack of other weapons. Later if a As50 or M107 .50 Cal are introduced you can bet your ass it will replace the M4A1.

Also who says there should only be US choppers ? I'd like the idea of finding higher end Russian Weapons in Crashed Russian Hinds. Weapons like Ak74m, AK-12, Saiga, VSS Vintorez, Svd Dragunov etc..(Domestic Russian weapon spawns for Ak47, Akm, SKS and Mp 443 would be fine in random homes spawns. Imo)

List of some NATO(.556 )Assault Rifles

Steyr Aug

Famas

HK 416

Imi Galil

SigSauer 556

ACR (Masada)

L85A1

TAR 21

Also there are Chinese QbZ Ars that fire 556.

I'd like to know if there will ever be a significant increase to weapons introduced to the game. Or if we're doomed to getting a weapon or 2 every patch. There absolutely has to be someone in charge of weapon art,dispersion, reload animation and action programming, implementation etc..

I refuse to accept the concept where I am to be armed with domestic Russian weapons only because there is lack of a better way to add .556 round ARs into Game.

[SFRGaming 718]

Sorry, are you saying it is there, but that it should not be functional?  The break, or the notch on the upper right quarter of the barrel is there to redirect the gases to help push the weapon down and left.  It does not do that.

I know what it does. I'm telling you there's no way it can affect the gun unless it's a separate part, in which it is not.