Scorped rifles need to go or become ULTRA rare

[harryzhe 28]

fwiw, i think the render distance is only about 500m.

EDIT:

Can you give me an example of someone youve seen in dayz shooting over 700m?

A: Did you do this yourself?

B: Or did someone shoot you from 700m away?

If "B" Then i think it's pretty obvious why you're asking for scoped rifles to be removed.

[rossmum 7]

All this not even accounting for the fact that the draw distance in this mod, by my estimation, is 500 metres...

e/ Beaten. I did, however, just reference off the map's grid squares. Draw distance is not more than 500m.

[harryzhe 28]

i repeat' date=' clearly you have never even shot even a pistol. moderate wind will push a .22 round half a foot off target @ 50M. My bro won a comp where the wind was high, based on grouping alone. I just want to see actual players in the game for a change, expecially in australia - camper noobs (like you) are a prob.

[/quote']

PS. .22 being pushed off this far in the space of 50m suggests to me you're using target loads... Which is consistent with your ~champion shooter~ story.

Having shot .22 target loaded and hunting loads i can tell you there's an enormous fucking noticable difference even at <100m.

[rossmum 7]

Also, for someone who claims to be so knowledgeable, you seem remarkably unaware of the massive difference between a .22 (what kind? Long Rifle? CB? Short? .22 WMR?) and much heavier, much faster rounds out of hunting and sniper rifles. Wind does not effect all projectiles equally, and there are no .22s in the game right now, so how that is a fitting example is beyond me. Maybe if you'd used .308 or the 9.3x62mm the CZ-550 has ingame, you'd look a little less like a poser.

[dystopeon 46]

lmao' date=' just shut up asap. What a hopeless appeal to authority. Even if you were the recognised expert on shooting, ever, it wouldn't make your suggestion valid. The game isn't about balance.

And it's not "one fps against another" - The games have entirely different design objectives.

[/quote']

Harry as you stated above "The game isn't about balance". Please name 1 game EVER that is NOT about balance? chess? monopoly? any sport? all video games? you clearly don't understand what a game is. I didn't want this thread to descend into a flame wall out of respect for the original poster and please don’t accuse me of trolling. You see, I want this GAME – DayZ, to be successful – I want it to be a WOW-Killer (which it should be). I don’t want it to fade into oblivion because idiots complain about the scope, PvP, day/night cycle or bandit skin. Rocket composed this beautiful piece of music with fantastic concepts such as humanity and people COMPLAIN about it. He is even thinking of removing the bandit skin which comprises the essential dyad on which the GAME is predicated. I say – Rocket, you are a composer! Don’t even think about straying from your brilliant core concepts, PLEASE! That’s what drove people here… the scope is almost inconsequential compared to this and I don’t care about it now. I will not post on this thread again, sorry to the people I offended (including you Harry, yeah I’m pigheaded like that.)

[shwat 3]

All this not even accounting for the fact that the draw distance in this mod' date=' by my estimation, is 500 metres...

e/ Beaten. I did, however, just reference off the map's grid squares. Draw distance is not more than 500m.

[/quote']

Draw distance can be scaled client-side. In Day Z, the only thing that will affect your view distance is weather (such as fog). I have personally shot and killed a player at 600 meters in Day Z with an M16A4. I used the in-game rangefinder before I shot him, too. I spotted him running across a field from about 700 meters away, and I really only shot him because I wanted to find out what ranges the hashes were in the ACOG. If anybody cares, they're 100m, 200m, 400m, and 600m.

I even went through the trouble of setting up a target range on the desert map, with targets from 100m to 1000m (pop-up targets and idle NPCs). I thoroughly tested the DMR so I could make a range-table for it, and wrote down the scales of targets in relation to the reticule so I could use the DMR scope as a rangefinder with man-sized objects. Why? Because it's useful in Day Z. You can see more than 500 meters, so it's important to know how to compensate for greater ranges.

[dystopeon 46]

Also' date=' for someone who claims to be so knowledgeable, you seem remarkably unaware of the massive difference between a .22 (what kind? Long Rifle? CB? Short? .22 WMR?) and much heavier, much faster rounds out of hunting and sniper rifles. Wind does not effect all projectiles equally, and there are no .22s in the game right now, so how that is a fitting example is beyond me. Maybe if you'd used .308 or the 9.3x62mm the CZ-550 has ingame, you'd look a little less like a poser.

[/quote']

i didn't want to post here again but meh. no they were LR factory rounds, there's a slight difference with wadcutters but you dont use those in comp. nice try :) also check Mac's post about distance FYI. l8r, good hunting - i might see ya.

[Mutonizer 78]

Harry as you stated above "The game isn't about balance". Please name 1 game EVER that is NOT about balance? chess? monopoly? any sport? all video games? you clearly don't understand what a game is[..]

I believe Rocket specifically posted that he doesn't give much of a damn about balancing the game.

Yep, there: http://www.dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=3693&pid=34112&highlight=balance#pid34112

"There is no balance, other than the balance you will put in[..]"

Also, my suggestion is more regarding loot rarity (as in, they are way, way too common) and mostly the fact that scoped rifles are not relevant game elements in the mod's concept, when taking into account other elements (such as zombies, direct com, night darkness, etc) and rather only serve as one purpose mechanics: kill players from a safe distance.

That's really all I'm posting about, they don't fit with anything else within the mod so far.

edit: oh, and again, that changed with 1.5.7 and I'm waiting for 1.5.8 to see how it stabilizes.

[b00ce 5]

also' date=' I never mentioned balance ever, period. I just wan't the scope rifle NOT to be a noob-canon like it is ATM.

[/quote']

>I never mentioned balance ever, period.

>I just wan't the scope rifle NOT to be a noob-canon like it is ATM.

Did you think about what you were saying? "Noob-canon" is a buzz word for balance, every time someone says it they're ass pained because they get slaughtered and don't know how to counter it, and thus think its OP and needs to be nerfed. AKA balanced.

This is ArmA, it is a simulator. Much like life, it isn't fair; grow some balls and deal with it.

[Sgt.Spam 42]

OP:

I agree with you, but you're going to get so much hate and discontent from the PKers, griefers and powergamers that it will probably never happen. That being said, I'll contradict myself right now and say that it's still an alpha and very early in the development process, so loot will more than likely see more tweaks as we go.

I think the fixes in 1.5.8 will help reduce them (very rare weapons), since players will no longer be able to ALT + F4 to avoid the death penalty.

[b00ce 5]

OP:

I agree with you' date=' but you're going to get so much hate and discontent from the PKers, griefers and powergamers that it will probably never happen. That being said, I'll contradict myself right now and say that it's still an alpha and very early in the development process, so loot will more than likely see more tweaks as we go.

I think the fixes in 1.5.8 will help reduce them (very rare weapons), since players will no longer be able to ALT + F4 to avoid the death penalty.

[/quote']

You didn't contradict yourself at all.

However, your baseless assumption that everyone that disagrees with OP is a "PKer, griefer or powergamer" is dead wrong.

[Sgt.Spam 42]

However' date=' your baseless assumption that everyone that disagrees with OP is a "PKer, griefer or powergamer" is dead wrong.

[/quote']

Having a love for sniper rifles does not imply they are any of the aforementioned labels.

I'm implying that people which can identify with such labels, will in fact take issue with a nerf to the loot spawn percentages.

/salute

[bloodxgusher 0]

....Scorped

lol :)

I walk around Chernarus all day..sniper heaven..not a problem at all. Just learn you be aware of you surroundings. Snipers are pretty easy to spot up high or on ground. THey aggro everything.

[TheSlyFawkes 3]

1) Survival/Apocalypse "mood" is meant to be gritty' date=' poor/lacking equipment and in your face. This can be found in any literature on the subject. There is tension between two people with shotguns or guns 20m apart, roaming between buildings and the like, because both can potentially be hurt very easily.

There is no tension when you snipe/get sniped 360°, anytime, anywhere a mile away.[/quote']

As an Avid sniper in the ACE mod and pretty much any game I play, I can say that this statement is completely inaccurate and wrong; the role of a sniper is purely support. I have to constantly make sure my positioning and zeroing is correct and the weather is always changing I can go from seeing 800m+ to only seeing 200m- all because of rolling fog. So this "Anytime, Anywhere" statement is a bunch of crap and takes a skilled sniper to know how to position themselves to get the best shot.

2) ARMA2 makes sniping someone running at 700m something even my cat could do by accident. The engine also removes grass on the ground on scoped zoom' date=' meaning apart from walls/rocks/trees, you are actually easier to see and hit from a distance than at close range. Scoped rifles exacerbate this engine issue.[/quote']

This may be true to a point but it still takes a bit of skill to visually know what range the target is at before taking the shot (At least in Hardcore where the SHIFT+CLICK ability is removed)

3) Everyone and their dog can get a scoped rifle within 1 hour of spawn or so. Some actually just camp switch servers to grab these goodies' date=' then go hunting people. These rifles need to become ULTRA rare (meaning so rare nobody would be stupid enough to actually try and actively find one) and have their spawn randomized in locations between various places.[/quote']

The CZ is the ONLY sniper that is a moderate drop, all of the other snipers are rare to ultra rare drops which are of no use to me because the ammo is scarce and honestly makes it not worth using. if anything they need to increase the ammo drop on the rare/ultra rare sniper rifles making them a bit more useable since EVERY sniper uses the CZ due to the availability of ammo (I'd like to use my SVD but haven't found a single magazine for it yet) and most of those rare and ultra rare sniper rifles only spawn in very dangerous areas.

4) Scoped rifles are THE weapon of choice for anyone wanting to hunt one thing: players. For any other purpose (apart from pure binocular use)' date=' people would rather have guns or shotguns/unscoped. While weapons like this are crucial in a pure military simulation/TDM game, in a zombie survival mod it isn't logical to have so many, used for a single purpose, with the context you're trying to set up for your players.[/quote']

Not true at all I use my sniper to give my group of buddy's Sniper over-watch while they loot airfields, factories, and villages. Also a sniper rifle is only really effective at Med-long range and going head to head with another player with a shotgun or assault rifle/rifle closeup is almost a certain loss unless you get lucky and get the first shot off. With that being said it's also very difficult to snipe people in villages due to the amount of zombies roaming the outskirts of them 1 shot and you've got all zombies within around 300m running at you trying to rip your balls off once again making snipers more of a support role then an offensive role.

As a note' date=' this also applies to NVGs. I have problems understanding designing an entire mod around the tension of insanely dark nights, flares and chemlights, then have a way for people to just spawn camp NVGs before going off hunting players. These things need to become ULTRA rare and randomized in spawns, work for a very limited amount of times, etc.[/quote']

OH HELLLLLLLLLLLL NO first of all NVGs are a 0.11% spawn rate item just like the SVD and by no means are they a problem; Honestly I've yet to run across a player with them let alone find a pair myself and are Ultra Rare. Also an easy counter to NVGs is to throw a flare and they'll be blinded by the intense light making them ineffective. It seems you've just been killed one to many times and want to start to blame the snipers in this mod for all your grief when in fact I've yet to be killed by a sniper myself.

[xSPETZx 3]

i use a scoped weapon are we forgetting that this is arma a miltary simulator just because its a mod doesnt mean we should take em out, anyway i think theres not enough weapon choices there should be claymores, C4, RPG that sort of thing i think it would make things abit more interesting but overall excel job lovin it

[Mutonizer 78]

This may be true to a point but it still takes a bit of skill to visually know what range the target is at before taking the shot (At least in Hardcore where the SHIFT+CLICK ability is removed)

Indeed and I now pay closer attention to the server I log into, making sure they are hardcore (no 3rd and no xhair). That said, skill can be gained in just a bit of training in boot camp.

The CZ is the ONLY sniper that is a moderate drop, all of the other snipers are rare to ultra rare drops which are of no use to me because the ammo is scarce and honestly makes it not worth using. if anything they need to increase the ammo drop on the rare/ultra rare sniper rifles making them a bit more useable since EVERY sniper uses the CZ due to the availability of ammo (I'd like to use my SVD but haven't found a single magazine for it yet) and most of those rare and ultra rare sniper rifles only spawn in very dangerous areas.

True, but the CZ is still a pretty good sniper rifle with the view distance limitations currently in place, making the real sniper rifle less...good, but making the CZ, a lot better than it should. Also, CZ is VERY common, let's not kid around.

Also, with server hopping, a rare item can be just a matter of time hopping between servers for spawns, which some people are willing to do. Making the CZ less common, maybe through some more weapon variety, would help I believe.

Not true at all I use my sniper to give my group of buddy's Sniper over-watch while they loot airfields, factories, and villages. Also a sniper rifle is only really effective at Med-long range and going head to head with another player with a shotgun or assault rifle/rifle closeup is almost a certain loss unless you get lucky and get the first shot off. With that being said it's also very difficult to snipe people in villages due to the amount of zombies roaming the outskirts of them 1 shot and you've got all zombies within around 300m running at you trying to rip your balls off once again making snipers more of a support role then an offensive role.

You could just give over watch with binoculars. Let's face it, once aggro sets in, nothing you can do with a CZ/Sniper against zombies better than what your buddies in a village can do with close range weapons.

Also, I agree (and stated multiple times) that since 1.5.7, things have changed, for the better I think, and that there is now a heavy risk to shooting from what used to be a very safe, and far, distance. Now, if you miss the shot or just injure instead of kill, you not only have all players in the area aware of you, but you have a VERY limited time to finish the job before a shitload of zombies reach you.

While I still believe that the CZ is taking too much loot space overall, the issue I mentioned at first are pretty much gone.

OH HELLLLLLLLLLLL NO first of all NVGs are a 0.11% spawn rate item just like the SVD and by no means are they a problem; Honestly I've yet to run across a player with them let alone find a pair myself and are Ultra Rare. Also an easy counter to NVGs is to throw a flare and they'll be blinded by the intense light making them ineffective.

I already, in reaction to a comment by another fellow player, agreed that I might have been affected by hacking on some of the servers I played, and that therefore my judgement on this was false. I did indeed checked the loot tables and discussed this with some friends who are really hungry on military gear and the NVG count has obviously now drasticly been reduced on the server I play on (hardcore and very carefully monitored).

It seems you've just been killed one to many times and want to start to blame the snipers in this mod for all your grief when in fact I've yet to be killed by a sniper myself.

Since I moved out of easy servers onto veteran/hardcore, I've been killed once and another time just "hit" (not killed, leg shot) by snipers in more than 2 weeks of play now. The kill was I believe a superb shot from a good 400m, with me on a crouch run as I was moving from one cover to another. The hit was a retaliation when I was trying to clean out a bandit from a hilltop treeline. I'm the kind of player that spend a long ass time checking the area around a place before moving in, then use natural cover and lower ground to break sight lines on hillsides and treelines for approach as well as houses and the like once inside.

However, my suggestion came from before 1.5.7, mainly studying what was happening in some of the main cities, with lone snipers/playerkillers executing everything that moved from a very long distance, and since zombies were almost nonexistent, without risk to themselves. This was reduced with 1.5.7 and completely disappeared once I moved onto hardcore, because you cannot abuse the 3RD view to check the area without being seen.

i use a scoped weapon are we forgetting that this is arma a miltary simulator just because its a mod doesnt mean we should take em out, anyway i think theres not enough weapon choices there should be claymores, C4, RPG that sort of thing i think it would make things abit more interesting but overall excel job lovin it

DAYZ is not meant to be a military simulation but a survival simulation with semi realistic physics and the wide variety of controls allowed by ARMA2. While I agree that weapon variety is fun, there should be a care regarding weapons whose ONLY use would be against players (like scoped rifle).

Just a quick quote from dayz dev team twitter from mid april:

"We've been trying to work on a new PvP damage model and trying to discourage PvP however if players want to kill we can't stop them"

It's a key element here I believe, try to discourage it, but not prevent it. And my suggestion was just proposing to help in that regard.

[Cavan 0]

I had a thought, and that was that the scopes would become interchangeable to some degree and in the case of the CZ rifle you would have to scavenge a scope separately and then attach it to your rifle. That way the CZ rifle stays as common as it is now, but CZ+scope becomes a little harder to get hold of.

All the rarer scoped rifles could stay as is, but you could then take your preferred scope and mount it to a different rifle maybe?

[rossmum 7]

Why are scoped rifles somehow irrelevant or not fitting for this mod? They are perfectly fitting, in fact I would argue they are more fitting in this mod than any other. Players can observe and deal with zombies or other players from concealed, relatively safe positions, rather than having to run in close and then get swarmed the second they fire a shot. As it is, the CZ pulls zombies for a pretty impressive distance.

By the way, someone who knows what they're doing with the Enfield - a common weapon even in starting areas - can just as easily hit people out to 3-400m, if not further.

[Renegade0260 3]

+1 agree with OP, scoped rifles should be very very rare, or even removed from the game completely as the engine has LOD bugs at distance.

[Oddball_E8 1]

Just to add to the discussion (if it hasnt been added already, but wont read 15 pages) by far the most common weapon you will find in sweden (where i live) that isnt a Military weapon or a shotgun, will be a scoped hunting rifle.

Think about it. If you rule out the military (since thats not what were talking about here), hunters are the single largest users of weapons in most countries.

And they use either shotguns or scoped rifles.

So a basic scoped rifle shouldnt be very rare in a rural country like the one depicted in DayZ.

Sure, it sucks that anyone can pick one up and start hunting humans, but on the flip side, they'll have to use their secondary to kill zombies and we all know how fun that is...

EDIT: and speaking from experience, those CZ550's can pull aggro on zeds from a surprisingly large distance. And when they do, you'll need something other than the "sniper" rifle to take them out, and it also leaves you completely exposed to anyone you were firing on if they arent dead already...

[undead_clown 2]

Just to add to the discussion (if it hasnt been added already' date=' but wont read 15 pages) by far the most common weapon you will find in sweden (where i live) that isnt a Military weapon or a shotgun, will be a scoped hunting rifle.

Think about it. If you rule out the military (since thats not what were talking about here), hunters are the single largest users of weapons in most countries.

And they use either shotguns or scoped rifles.

So a basic scoped rifle shouldnt be very rare in a rural country like the one depicted in DayZ.

Sure, it sucks that anyone can pick one up and start hunting humans, but on the flip side, they'll have to use their secondary to kill zombies and we all know how fun that is...

EDIT: and speaking from experience, those CZ550's can pull aggro on zeds from a surprisingly large distance. And when they do, you'll need something other than the "sniper" rifle to take them out, and it also leaves you completely exposed to anyone you were firing on if they arent dead already...

[/quote']

This

Also just to give an example, I was in Berenzino apartments with 2 friends, 1 got shot by a bandit with a 1911, I fired my CZ and killed him.

15 seconds later we were trapped with, no joke, 50+ zombies. I know there were less than 15 zombies in a 50-75m radius of the apartments, which means we pulled zombies from out to 200m or more in the fields and down the road.

So ya, CZ makes as much or more noise then the Enfield, seems balanced* to me.

*By balanced I mean, the pros of the weapon (scope, accuracy, 1-hit mostly) are balanced with the cons (LOUD, worthless against zombies, low ammo), not balanced against other guns. Nothing is going to ever be balanced against another weapon, so don't even try to use that argument.

[ytman18@gmail.com 9]

Hardly an issue when most servers have an imposed weather fog limit of 500-600 meters!

Yeah I pythagorean'ed for those numbers.

Now if the game went back to say... 3000 meter view distance.... I'd be a happy panda. I'd also certainly agree with you about making the CZ (with scope) rare barn loot and a unscoped CZ normal.

As it stands its pretty balanced... and the Mil grade Sniper weapons are pretty swank and hard to find/supply for so... yeah balance in risk/reward.