Six Upcoming Developments That Will Change DayZ for the Better - Loot Rarity (wait, whaat?)

[pilgrim* 3514]

..//..

The group with .50 cal becomes main target for everyone else to the point where they don't bother playing (why risk loosing your gear) unless The Guy is online; at the same time The Guy never logs in without a couple of friends to protect him.

..//..

 

so if you don't know where the .50 is you have to log on to find it

but if you do know where it is you only log on when the owner is in the game

 

so this game is all about the .50 cal and not about anything else

- sounds like a problem of balance

 

this is one reason why the devs took the .50 cal completely out of DayZ Vanilla

doesn't really have anything to do with different ways of balancing loot spawn.. does it ?

 

if there was an unknown very small number of .50 cal in the game, spawning 'very infrequently', then everyone would always have to play to look for the next spawn, if that is all that interested them.

 

on the other hand, knowing that the .50 is out of the game, leaves everyone totally free to do what they like with the whole game, as long as the .50 owner is not around.

 

but if ALL you want to do in the game is collect a .50 cal...  then you are up SK without a paddle.

Edited July 2, 2014 by pilgrim

[xalienax 621]

so if you dont know where the .50 is you have to log on to find it

but if you do know where it is you only log on when the owner is in the game

 

so this game is all about the .50 cal and not about anything else

sounds like a problem of balance

 

this is probably why the took the .50 ca

its just decends to the next item. the best AR, or the best scope, or the NVGs. any single thing that would give you an advntage simply for the fact that a compartively small cross section of other players would have it.

 

Without even brining up realism wich by now is a moot point, this proposed system is fundamentally BAD for gameplay. it's a direct contridiction to everything they seem intent on promoting with more focus on improvised gear and complex medical. the idea that the game should focus on survival firs and foremost will be completely negated as more then half the players will engage in the server-raiding metagame. it does NOTHING to encourage emergent interactions but rather will promote more abuse by server owners, and more server hoping.

 

Another issue that was only eluded to is; if thier are only say.. 50 NVGs in circulation possible. you do know that the biggest clans will pretty much have a monopoly on them by virtue of mass server-hop loot farming. this will then serve as a "selling point" to get more people to come to thier server. only the servers that are home to large clans and thus home to those with the best gear will be populated.

 

At this point I really dont even need to make comparisons to the mod or bring up realism as any kind of point. if you can't see how horrendous this will be to gameplay your blind. At best its a half-assed way to deal with the duping of items; by simply not spawning any more untill the total number in the hive is below X.

 

A far better solution would have been to make every single weapon have its real-life calibere and magazine, which means the odds of getting the correct one from any given loot drop is incredibly low. over time there would still be tons of weapons and ammo in circulation, however finding the correct round, magazine, and gun all together would basicly force you into some form of group effort or engaging clans to take them by force. and Still, this solution would work in a way that doesn't destroy a server soon as all of x item are looted and taken elsewhere.

[darkgritty 9]

 

Yeah, I watched it too, there's not a word there about "cross-server" battles between clans. The whole presentation is mostly about survival/immersion aspects of the game, in case you didn't watch it and just posted a random video.

[slippery gypsy 107]

love it who cares about people hording gear and never logging on thats there problem ..... you all bitch and complain loots not rare its too easy blah blah ... there is a solution to it .... global loot brilliant so ass clown says he has nvg and a bunch of groups clan up and go hunting and fight it out on said fabled server .... sounds good to me 

[scriptfactory 620]

Yeah, I watched it too, there's not a word there about "cross-server" battles between clans. The whole presentation is mostly about survival/immersion aspects of the game, in case you didn't watch it and just posted a random video.

I linked to a specific spot in the video. Maybe it doesn't work with the preview. At about 26 minutes Rocket talks about going to other servers that you know has a part you are looking for and stealing it. I guess you already know this. He is counting on "clan raids" being a part of endgame content, IMO.

[alsmir 255]

so if you don't know where the .50 is you have to log on to find it

but if you do know where it is you only log on when the owner is in the game

 

so this game is all about the .50 cal and not about anything else

- sounds like a problem of balance

 

this is one reason why the devs took the .50 cal completely out of DayZ Vanilla

doesn't really have anything to do with different ways of balancing loot spawn.. does it ?

 

if there was an unknown very small number of .50 cal in the game, spawning 'very infrequently', then everyone would always have to play to look for the next spawn, if that is all that interested them.

 

on the other hand, knowing that the .50 is out of the game, leaves everyone totally free to do what they like with the whole game, as long as the .50 owner is not around.

 

but if ALL you want to do in the game is collect a .50 cal...  then you are up SK without a paddle.

 

Jesus Christ, I just used .50 cal as example.

The point is there is a lot of cool items that people want to persue and if their amount gets reduced to a set amount people will be mad.

[FreshmeatDK 22]

Very fast, the good loot will have been picked up. That means that server hopping becomes utterly pointless, because you will not chance upon a rare item. However, manhunting will be back on the menu big time, with hunters going for the people with gear, and then in turn become the hunted as they succed. The rest of us can then play on servers a bit away from the action, trying to build a world until a rare item shows up in the area. This could be good, in fact.

[scriptfactory 620]

love it who cares about people hording gear and never logging on thats there problem ..... you all bitch and complain loots not rare its too easy blah blah ... there is a solution to it .... global loot brilliant so ass clown says he has nvg and a bunch of groups clan up and go hunting and fight it out on said fabled server .... sounds good to me 

 

There needs to be an in-game mechanic, IMO, that tells you if a server has high-value loot and the general location. That is why I said tie the zombie population density directly to the amount of high-value items in an area. That way, if you see a horde of zombies you know that you should search the area for good loot.

[Evil Minion 943]

Very fast, the good loot will have been picked up. That means that server hopping becomes utterly pointless, because you will not chance upon a rare item. However, manhunting will be back on the menu big time, with hunters going for the people with gear, and then in turn become the hunted as they succed. The rest of us can then play on servers a bit away from the action, trying to build a world until a rare item shows up in the area. This could be good, in fact.

Indeed a very good idea that might help dealing with server hopping on the long run. The only two issues I can see so far: First - looting empty servers and then joining populated ones still works as a low risk/ high reward method of gearing up which does gimp the early game and mght concentrate loot on a few selected servers. Second - people who found high value gear and stopped playing will effectively remove the gear from the game as you can't take it away from them (if they die in a bush its not a problem because the gear is still there and some lucky traveler might find it).

 

I have no real idea how to deal with the first issue (in my opinion the existing suggestions are flawed in one way or the other) but the second could be dealt with by putting items into rarity categories. The rarer an item the faster you will lose it when not playing. When logged out your "inactivity" will slowly rise and if it exceeds an items rarity value (the smaller the rarer) the items is "stolen" from you and will respawn somewhere. When playing you slowly decrease your "inactivity" (faster on more populated servers) but you won't get back lost items.

 

Also you should not know if there is high level gear and where. There should be some general locations with a higher yield but actually finding something should not be guaranteed.

[Legio23 82]

didn't you say yesterday that you uninstalled and you Dont Play this game anymore ?

you just come to the forum to smack talk about a game you don't play ?

 

there is ArmA and the DayZ Mod you can still play, instead of wasting your time and your venom here ?

cool out, dude

 

 

That's not going to stop me from pushing and promoting a direction that will return us to the mods gameplay with minor imporvements. Just because i dispise and revile the curent iteration and choices made by the devs doesnt NOT mean i should go sit quietly in the corner and let it get worse and worse.

Quite right there is nothing to stop you having your opinion! and it should not be snubbed like that which is just downright rude.

 

I am unable to play the game for weeks at a time due to the work I do and where I'm situated, but, does that make me less entitled to an opinion ? no ! I think that this is a terrible idea that will destroy the whole game, server hopping to find uber rare gear...please ! This is just a very poor concept that will, IMO, kill the game off totally.

The few that  that think this is a great concept keep it up but clearly your ideas and opinions are in the minority on this particular subject just from what I have read on here.

[darkgritty 9]

That means that server hopping becomes utterly pointless

 

No its not. It means that players who want to achieve something will HAVE to change servers all the time to get it. If only one of 100 servers spawn parts for helicopters, everyone will go for that server to farm these parts. If it starts spawning on another server - they will have to change server again. And again. And again. It also means that you will HAVE to go to a server with bad ping, if you play from another part of the world. It also means larger crowds trying to enter a server with specific spawn, and other servers will have lower population.

 

It all sounds like a pile of overcomplicated crap that will result in more exploits and hack. If you design a system with possible exploit hole in it, be sure that players will find it and start abusing it. And no matter what patches you try to implement after that to 'punish' this kind of gameplay, you will only make things worse for normal players who try to play an immersive survival game, not some powergaming rare loot farming.

 

If you tailor the system towards pvp competion - get ready for constant hacks and exploits, because A LOT of people want to be the best by any means possible.

 

In this sense, DayZ has a unique exploit foundation compared to other 'survival' games. It has all the hacks you have to deal with, for example, in Rust, plus server hopping pvp. Got a fortified base you can't assault because its heavily protected and barricaded by other players - just disconnect from this server, wait for 5-whatever minutes, log in to another server, change you position, and log in later right in the middle of their base - voila, barricades are pointless. You can change the reconnect timer to 30 minutes, or 3 hours - it won't change anything if powergaming and competition is involved. If Rust, where base building is already implemented had the same crap with server hopping, no one would play it, because barricading and base building and defence are the main  aspects of Rust. Gary seems to understand that. Dean - I'm not so sure.

 

If saving you loot between servers is the issue here, and starting a new character from beginning is too extreme (I thought we play a hardcore survival game here, eh?), then all people who enter the server with any loot in their inventory SHOULD spawn on a random spawn point, as if they were a new character, and not on the place they disconnected on previous server.

Edited July 2, 2014 by darkgritty

[xalienax 621]

In this sense, DayZ has a unique exploit foundation compared to other 'survival' games. It has all the hacks you have to deal with, for example, in Rust, plus server hopping pvp. Got a fortified base you can't assault because its heavily protected and barricaded by other players - just disconnect from this server, wait for 5-whatever minutes, log in to another server, change you position, and log in later right in the middle of their base - voila, barricades are pointless. You can change the reconnect timer to 30 minutes, or 3 hours - it won't change anything if powergaming and competition is involved. If Rust, where base building is already implemented had the same crap with server hopping, no one would play it, because barricading and base building and defence are the main  aspects of Rust. Gary seems to understand that. Dean - I'm not so sure.

This one paragraph is probably the most logical thing i've read around here in some time. This is, in my opinion the biggest fault with dean and his "vision" for what dayZ "Should be". he seems to be trying to make assumptions about Player's choices and behavior- Experienced designers know that this is the one thing you can never truly predict. now, this is not to say you cant retro-actively make re-balances to address thing that become obscenely game-breaking in the context of a certain play-style; But with dayZ were looking at a game whose greatest strength is that there are ZERO rules.

 

any form of "morality" is self imposed. Some may choose to forgo things like web based "loot maps", or loot cycling/farming/etc. but you can NOT infer from this that the vast majority will or won't. this cross-server Hive business has been nothing but a detriment from the very beginning imho. it brings nothing truly original in terms of gameplay except a legalized exploit. the addition of this 'global' loot economy will do NOTHING to improve gameplay- on the contrary it will steer eveyone to a few servers that are the home of large clans who have long sinced hoarded all the good gear- and not only this it will further encourage admins of these clans to abuse server ownership to keep rare items (such as sudden restart if guy with a rare item becomes cornered).

[scriptfactory 620]

No its not. It means that players who want to achieve something will HAVE to change servers all the time to get it. If only one of 100 servers spawn parts for helicopters, everyone will go for that server to farm these parts.

 

I hope they don't implement the "everything is persistent" mechanic. Loot will spawn dynamically which means it should also despawn dynamically. Once loot is spawned it can't just stay persistent in one world forever. Once an item is actually picked up and placed into a persistent container it should still despawn after a specific amount of time if the player account that farmed it doesn't login.

 

Got a fortified base you can't assault because its heavily protected and barricaded by other players - just disconnect from this server, wait for 5-whatever minutes, log in to another server, change you position, and log in later right in the middle of their base - voila, barricades are pointless. You can change the reconnect timer to 30 minutes, or 3 hours - it won't change anything if powergaming and competition is involved. If Rust, where base building is already implemented had the same crap with server hopping, no one would play it, because barricading and base building and defence are the main  aspects of Rust. Gary seems to understand that. Dean - I'm not so sure.

 

If saving you loot between servers is the issue here, and starting a new character from beginning is too extreme (I thought we play a hardcore survival game here, eh?), then all people who enter the server with any loot in their inventory SHOULD spawn on a random spawn point, as if they were a new character, and not on the place they disconnected on previous server.

 

I have been saying this from the beginning. If they wanted to fix server hopping and ghosting they just need to make spawn locations saved per server, not per character. Upon login the server needs to detect if the player character is spawning in a valid location. If the spawn location doesn't exist (never visited this server before) or is invalid (inside of another player's base) you are assigned a random spawn location (perhaps within 1 km or whatever). This would also encourage map exploration and encourage players to stick to the same servers so they are more likely spawn in a safe location.

Also, fixed spawn locations are in the Rezzed roadmap. How would these be implemented without the player location being saved per server?

[slippery gypsy 107]

There needs to be an in-game mechanic, IMO, that tells you if a server has high-value loot and the general location. That is why I said tie the zombie population density directly to the amount of high-value items in an area. That way, if you see a horde of zombies you know that you should search the area for good loot.

agreed there would need to be something identifying a server with high value loot on it ... but from what i read they want tales of fabled players on fabled servers holding fabled gear which sounds really cool and all but in reality every asshat in dayz would claim to have the grail so agreed some sort of info suggesting something epic might be on the server is a well good idea ...

[cels 43]

I dont find it very hardcore survivalish that I can find 300+ rounds of ammo and multiple weapons pretty easily. Im happy if the change reduces this immensely.

If it means it might be a possibility of a month or more of playing before I come across another m4a1(or any other), so be it. Will be even better if I only ever found 2 bullets for it.

Edited July 2, 2014 by cels

[Nesuma (DayZ) 108]

Once again how is this a bad thing ?

 

If they do it nicely, it's cool but it will never work good enough. I haven't played for 2 weeks. If I had rare items I would stop the flow of items, do you want to kill everbody not playing for 2 days?

 

Also, things were rare back then, too. The problem was that once you found an as50 for example, you could keep it for ever. Now, with a damage-system which will maybe work in 2 years you can't just shoot all the time because your weapon will get worse. --> This will balance the amount of every item. Back in the mod your friend could take all your things after you died, now they would be destroyed.

 

And how are they going to choose the server, which spawns the next availabe "nvg"?

There are definitly better ways to keep special things rare... (maybe spawn them in a bad condition and you've to repair them fast. Everything is better than this).

If they want a realistic economy, they should add different modes, containing one with special private white listed hives, where only one group of 40 players are listed and if you die you've to wait for the next month. (Like all the "hungergames" modes"

 

[xalienax 621]

agreed there would need to be something identifying a server with high value loot on it ... but from what i read they want tales of fabled players on fabled servers holding fabled gear which sounds really cool and all but in reality every asshat in dayz would claim to have the grail so agreed some sort of info suggesting something epic might be on the server is a well good idea ...

so you want servers to live or die based on what loot it's players have on them? that sounds horrible and destructive to any sort of community. let be completely realistic. you dont think that atleast half the population is going to spend thier time chasing rare tiems to new servers?

[pillock 850]

Why would it increase server hopping? You would have just as much chance finding the rare item in the server you are currently in as in any other server that you hopped to. Plus, you wouldn't know when the item limit was reached, so it'd be pointless to just keep hopping forever.

 

If there is a "rumour" that so-and-so player has such-and-such item on this-or-that server, I don't really see, either, how this could create "storytelling" or "lore". That player could join any one of thousands of servers when they next log in? How the hell would you ever track them down? And what sort of idiot is ever going to risk leaving an ultra-rare item in their lootable persistent storage?

Edited July 2, 2014 by Pillock

[smoq2 221]

Why would it increase server hopping? You would have just as much chance finding the rare item in the server you are currently in as in any other server that you hopped to. Plus, you wouldn't know when the item limit was reached, so it'd be pointless to just keep hopping forever.

 

The thing is it won't decrease it nor increase it. It will have no impact on the majority of server hoppers at all, since they still won't know whether the next server has anything of value.

 

The problem arises when a portion of said hoppers become aware through some forum/wiki/chat/VOIP that there is rare X on server Y (metagaming). To me that's just wrong by principle and kills the very soul of the game. It destroys everything that makes the game authentic.

 

Aside that, there are practical implications mentioned by previous posters in this thread - servers suddenly becoming vastly popular and unpopular because of chance, rather than the server's community.

 

Don't get me wrong though, the idea of a global loot economy isn't bad, it's the reason for it to exist that's the problem - public hive. There would be no need for one without the other.

 

 

If there is a "rumour" that so-and-so player has such-and-such item on this-or-that server, I don't really see, either, how this could create "storytelling" or "lore". That player could join any one of thousands of servers when they next log in? And what sort of idiot is going to risk leaving an ultra-rare item in their lootable persistent storage?

 

I don't see how a construct such as "server" can be a part of any lore, let alone a zombie survival game like DayZ. We'd have to ask Dean to clarify what he actually meant.

 

It's like saying "We want pages in the book to be an inseparable part of the lore in an "alien invasion" SF novel."

Edited July 2, 2014 by retro19

[scriptfactory 620]

I love the public hive. I don't want to lose my character because a server shut down. If I lose my persistent storage, OK.

I actually wish they would let server owners set which hive characters should be loaded from. So a group of clans could create a new private hive "ring" that would link all of their clan servers (and loot) together.

[kakysas666 191]

Looking at this and to answer your question, I can imagine that if someone was to theoretically gather several NVG's put them in their backpack and then log out for ever those NVG's would be still in the economy, but no one will ever be able to use them.

Then I see an ever larger problem with this type of economy. 

People can gather very rare items such as the NVG's and sell them.

I mean literally sell them online for real money.

 

I think this is the worse idea they have come up with yet! 

 

 

People already sell loot. Even servers and server admins. Haven't you seen a message? Top Loot - x amount of dollars?

[pilgrim* 3514]

 ['nother lecture, sorry people, it's long but anyways ya don't have to read it]

 

..//..

half the players will engage in the server-raiding metagame

.. will promote more abuse by server owners

.. more server hoping

.. mass server-hop loot farming

 

..//..

 if there are only say.. 50 NVGs in circulation possible. you do know that the biggest clans will pretty much have a monopoly on them

.. only the servers that are home to large clans and thus home to those with the best gear will be populated

.//..

 

 if you can't see how horrendous this will be to gameplay you're blind

 

A far better solution would have been to make every single weapon have its real-life calibere and magazine

... finding the correct round, magazine, and gun all together would basicly force you into some form of group effort  or engaging clans to take them by force

... this solution would work in a way that doesn't destroy a server soon as all of x item are looted and taken elsewhere.

 

1 ) "server raiding/server hopping" : you missed the point of my post - the new idea is around "server sharing" as a way to extend the map, involve more than 40 players in one game experience, and more fairly and usefully control spawn distribution.

 

2) " the biggest clans" : here you say that the centralised spawn control would be vulnerable to "large clans", then you go on to say that a better solution would be to encourage players to form clans for "group effort" or engage clans to take spawn "by force" . I don't see the difference between these two possibilities:

B) you say "clans" would rule - and that's bad

B) your alternative is to force people to form clans - and that's good

 

3 ) this whole future DayZ possibility has nothing to do with " make every single weapon have its real-life calibere and magazine ."  However, a centralised spawn control could make it possible to have many more different items, and also have a "fair" distribution.

 

-- OK --

 

For myself, I cannot say at all if, or how, a fair distribution of spawn could work - either within one server or spread across many/several servers - and I promise you that, in my limits I have attempted some math on this subject (some amateur statistical 'projections'). I'm interested.

 

What really interests me is the change in gameplay - I mean change in player interaction and in scope. Which could result from this new structure of small servers acting together with a centralised Loot Hive in the same way as we have a central Player Hive.

This is a new idea - it is technically interesting - it may be a totally different and radical way of dealing with multiuser online games, instead of repeating the classical  "one big server".

 

The reason YOU moved across from ArmA to DayZ-Mod (like all of us) was you discovered it was NEW and Different.. not because it had realistic weapons, ArmA2 already had exactly that. The Mod was an innovative new gameplay. That's what brought you in.

 

So this sets the bar high for SA DayZ, and we already know that the devs have sworn a great oath that it will NOT be the Mod repackaged. The aim is 'SA as never seen before' - going further, different, new, better. radical.  This can be DayZ for the next generation - not to copy/repeat a previous success, but to build an extrordinary game.

I don't even know if this projection of Rocket's will ever be implemented in the form he speaks of it today. But, shit - its an INTERESTING idea and if DayZ does not do it, somebody else WILL go down that path.

 

Hey, dude, I don't know if this can work. I don't know what the results might be.  But I'm surprised to see so many players so conservative, saying: "we have an Alpha game, don't change it, just 'improve' what is there now, but above all, nothing NEW"

So what happened to - experiment - new material - wider player challenge - different game elements - new game potential - radical stuff - innovation - previously unknown excitement?

All the great things that good development can provide when it gets HOT ?

Why do we snarl when someone mentions "change"?

 

In my mind - The cash I paid for this SA is a little payback for all the time I spent free in the Mod. Price was worth it. I've been paid back, so now I'm on a free ride. I don't own anything, I don't claim any rights. Counting in the Mod and SA together I already have my money's worth by about 1000%.

Now I want to see the SA get good, and I think it can work. It can be a worthwhile thing. Better than "a good game".

Read what Rocket says (without shouting first) and notice he's not proposing a "standard" game

 

xx

Edited July 2, 2014 by pilgrim

[scriptfactory 620]

People already sell loot. Even servers and server admins. Haven't you seen a message? Top Loot - x amount of dollars?

They should allow people to sell loot for in-game currency.

- Players can "mine" in caves or rivers to collect gold. You have a super low chance of getting gold in this way. Like you might find 1 gram of gold in 24 hours of mining.

- Players can call in an airdrop using the radio. The airdrop has to be paid for with gold hanging in the air in a balloon, kinda' like the [skyhook system](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulton_surface-to-air_recovery_system).

- Only basic resources (medical supplies, food, building materials, ammo) can be bought.

- The drop location is marked by the requesting player with red smoke. Players will need to wait between 15-30 minutes for the airdrop to come.

- Any player can collect the drop.

- Players pay for the airdrop with gold. The amount of gold that can be hung has a fixed maximum per balloon.

Instant economy that will let players trade in-game items for gold that can be converted to base supplies.

[frosti 2165]

They should allow people to sell loot for in-game currency.

- Players can "mine" in caves or rivers to collect gold. You have a super low chance of getting gold in this way. Like you might find 1 gram of gold in 24 hours of mining.

- Players can call in an airdrop using the radio. The airdrop has to be paid for with gold hanging in the air in a balloon, kinda' like the [skyhook system](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulton_surface-to-air_recovery_system).

- Only basic resources (medical supplies, food, building materials, ammo) can be bought.

- The drop location is marked by the requesting player with red smoke. Players will need to wait between 15-30 minutes for the airdrop to come.

- Any player can collect the drop.

- Players pay for the airdrop with gold. The amount of gold that can be hung has a fixed maximum per balloon.

Instant economy that will let players trade in-game items for gold that can be converted to base supplies.

 

I'll hire few Chinesse gold farmers

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

I like this.

 

Look at the state of the game today, you can have something be as rare as possible, and people will farm the heck out of it. Most players do not stop loot farming until they have the best gear they can. With this change it add the possibilitiy that this item will never spawn until someone that uses it lose it or die; because the amount available is currently at the quota set by the devs.