.380 ACP Coming To DayZ! [Torchia Reddit]

[Katana67 2907]

Well, it wasn't really a prominent argument to begin with, and most of the people who did complain about it were satiated when they made the M4 incredibly rare (although I don't think it deserves to be confined to chopper crashes).

 

I'm torn on the M4A1 being a crash-only spawn. I mean, yes, I want NATO gear to be rarer overall. But the M4 just ain't that good... even kitted out... as a concept... it just isn't that good compared to the SKS, Mosin, and AKM as far as DayZ is concerned. It's not good enough (and really can't be good enough, by virtue of what it is), in my opinion, to warrant it being the rarest weapon in the game (currently). I think it's a good thing that they did it, as it sets the precedent again for crash-specific weapon spawns.

 

That's the issue I have with the current status of the weapon lineup, there's no real middle ground. Nor is there a distinct "high-end" yet. 

Edited June 29, 2014 by Katana67

[Chaingunfighter 917]

I'm torn on the M4A1 being a crash-only spawn. I mean, yes, I want NATO gear to be rarer overall. But the M4 just ain't that good... even kitted out... as a concept... it just isn't that good compared to the SKS, Mosin, and AKM as far as DayZ is concerned. It's not good enough (and really can't be good enough, by virtue of what it is), in my opinion, to warrant it being the rarest weapon in the game (currently). I think it's a good thing that they did it, as it sets the precedent again for crash-specific weapon spawns.

 

That's the issue I have with the current status of the weapon lineup, there's no real middle ground. Nor is there a distinct "high-end" yet. 

Yeah, it's really just, you have the "good" weapons (M4, Mosin, SKS, AKM), the "okay" weapons (Blaze, IZH-43 Sawed-Off, FNX, Magnum, LongHorn, 1911, Amphibia), and the "not-so-good" weapons (CR75, P1, Sporter-22, standard IZH-43)

However, there's no real difference in performance with those weapons. I mean, a Mosin isn't really giving you a clear advantage over a Blaze. The only reason it's seen in higher regard is because it holds more ammunition and has more attachments. But otherwise, the Blaze will kill you much faster in a close quarters situation, because the Mosin is bolt-action, while the Blaze will throw two rounds out in super succession.

The 9x19mm and .22LR weapons could probably use a buff, though, because I'd like to see more people using the CR75 & P1 as their dedicated sidearm. Granted, the FNX-45 could probably stay as the game's high-end pistol, but there's absolutely no reason to take a 9x19mm over a .45ACP at the moment. The only time I've ever seen people actually holding onto them was when I ran into a group who had a guy who's responsibility was just for carrying ammo and sidearms, and he had one of every pistol in the game at the time (1911, FNX, Magnum, CR75, and Amphibia)

 

Otherwise, yeah, there's no real tier of weapons right now. That may be for the best at the current stage, but I don't think it's best on gameplay when even the best equipped and longest standing survivors can be matched by some newspawn with a Sporter-22. That's why we need DMRs like the M14.

Edited June 29, 2014 by Chaingunfighter

[igor-vk 909]

Ok, lets say we can group weapon in two groups: "good" and "this sucks". Why are "good" weapons like SKS and Mosin more comon than crappy weapons. Findind sporter and its mags, or P1 and mags is harder than to find AKM and drums. Even in early alpha this should be balanced. I mean, why they wasted time and resources to make P1 if you cant find any. If Makarov ever get in game there should be tons of them everywhere.

[Capo 323]

Why would people be against an ak-101 in 5.56? Personally I'm pretty happy with this solution of adding .380 auto, it means we get our makarov, some sick smgs and the devs don't end up putting 9m para and 9m makarov into the game next to each other. Especially since there are only a couple of handguns that use 9mm Makarov. 

 

As long as the weapons are plausible I'm pretty happy, and I'm looking forward for the split in the amalgamated 7.62x51 into - .308 win and 7.62x54 Russian. 

[hombrecz 832]

I'm torn on the M4A1 being a crash-only spawn. I mean, yes, I want NATO gear to be rarer overall. But the M4 just ain't that good... even kitted out... as a concept... it just isn't that good compared to the SKS, Mosin, and AKM as far as DayZ is concerned. It's not good enough (and really can't be good enough, by virtue of what it is), in my opinion, to warrant it being the rarest weapon in the game (currently). I think it's a good thing that they did it, as it sets the precedent again for crash-specific weapon spawns.

 

That's the issue I have with the current status of the weapon lineup, there's no real middle ground. Nor is there a distinct "high-end" yet. 

 

They had to put something to the heli crash loot and the M4 was the most logical weapon to put there at this moment.

The whole loot tables we have now must be simply placeholders, because there are only few guns at the moment.

 

I'm quite confident that in the end, helicrashes will contain better weapons then M4 (maybe G36, L85, some kind of sniper rifle, LMG), but such weapons have to be first added to the game obviously.

[Katana67 2907]

They had to put something to the heli crash loot and the M4 was the most logical weapon to put there at this moment.

The whole loot tables we have now must be simply placeholders, because there are only few guns at the moment.

 

I'm quite confident that in the end, helicrashes will contain better weapons then M4 (maybe G36, L85, some kind of sniper rifle, LMG), but such weapons have to be first added to the game obviously.

 

I agree, which is why I said "I think it's a good thing that they did it [moved the M4A1 to helicopter crashes only], as it sets the precedent again for crash-specific weapon spawns."

 

You're right, we don't have a distinct "high-end" yet. The two areas that I think need a bit more love (well, I think all weapon categories should have at least four weapons a piece) are the "high-end" and the sort of, mid-low "hunting" side of things.

 

I've been trying to work up an overall weapon distribution list in my mind which takes into account the following concepts - NATO/Warsaw Pact/European/Civilian aesthetics, innate weapon capabilities, modularity, and ammunition availability. Whilst also trying to incorporate the weapons we've got already. Will be sure to post what I end up coming up with. There's a lot of inconsistencies (like not being able to have a "civilian" LMG, the line between "civilian/military" being meaningless in most cases, and a lack of specificity with regard to things like damage). But just as an example...

 

1. SVT-40

• Common-Uncommon
• Uses Common-Uncommon ammunition (7.62x54R)
• Limited modularity, only capable of mounting one attachment or none at all (probably just an optic if any)
• High power, medium range, low rate of fire, high recoil
• 10-round magazine capacity

2. M14

• Uncommon-Rare
• Uses Uncommon-Rare ammunition (7.62x51)
• Slightly increased modularity, capable of mounting two attachments (an optic and perhaps a suppressor or bipod)
• High power, medium range, medium rate of fire, high recoil
• 20-round magazine capacity

3. FN FAL or HK G3A3

• Rare
• Uses Uncommon-Rare ammunition (7.62x51)
• Enhanced modularity, capable of mounting two weapon-specific attachments AND several generic attachments after looting a separate rail system (like the M4A1 and AKM now)
• High power, medium range, select-fire, medium-high recoil
• 20-round magazine capacity

4. SR-25 or Mk 17

• Very Rare
• Uses Uncommon-Rare ammunition (7.62x51)
• Innate modularity, capable of mounting all generic attachments without looting a separate rail system
• High power, medium range, select-fire, medium recoil
• 20-round magazine capacity

[Katana67 2907]

Neat!

 

 

 

And yay, glad to see a compromise could be reached to get the AK-101/AK-74M in the game. Now if we could only get some native English speakers to write the damn descriptions! /tease

 

 

Edited July 18, 2014 by Katana67

[hombrecz 832]

Very uncool to have member of AK74 family in NATO caliber. I will no longer comment on how weird that is, but simply imagine game situated somewhere in USA having M4 rifle chambered in Wasraw pact caliber because hey, it can be done in real life !

 

Also this is bad from gameplay perspective. 5.56x45 should be more rare than WP ammunition, but to balance it, western rifles (M4, G36 etc) could have been lets say tad more accurate and more customisable. Trade off ofc being ammo and the gun itself harder to find.

 

Now add iconic east bloc weapon (AK74) into the mix and have it use NATO caliber.

That will prevent AK to be more commonly used, because it will suffer from harder to find ammo and because of this, you will be lot better to use M4 or any other western AR devs will add. Or this AK101 will behave almost identicaly as M4, which is bad as well, as it kills variability other then visual.

 

It is sad to see quite variable pistol calibers, yet rifle & assault rifle calibers are neglected down to mere 3 types?

I will remain hoping that at some point, Devs will see the reason and add 5.45x39 and also 7.61x54 later.

[alldaypk 63]

Very uncool to have member of AK74 family in NATO caliber. I will no longer comment on how weird that is, but simply imagine game situated somewhere in USA having M4 rifle chambered in Wasraw pact caliber because hey, it can be done in real life !

 

They did this because they aren't in favor of adding new cartridges that are only going to be used in one gun.

 

Also this is bad from gameplay perspective. 5.56x45 should be more rare than WP ammunition, but to balance it, western rifles (M4, G36 etc) could have been lets say tad more accurate and more customisable. Trade off ofc being ammo and the gun itself harder to find.

 

Guns are not balanced, in real life one gun can be better than the other in every single way; Mosin Nagant VS SVD. The M4 and the AK-101 still use different magazines, the M4 magazine remains rare.

 

Now add iconic east bloc weapon (AK74) into the mix and have it use NATO caliber.

That will prevent AK to be more commonly used, because it will suffer from harder to find ammo and because of this, you will be lot better to use M4 or any other western AR devs will add. Or this AK101 will behave almost identicaly as M4, which is bad as well, as it kills variability other then visual.

 

I'm pretty sure loaded magazines can be found in any mil spawn.

 

It is sad to see quite variable pistol calibers, yet rifle & assault rifle calibers are neglected down to mere 3 types?

I will remain hoping that at some point, Devs will see the reason and add 5.45x39 and also 7.61x54 later.

 

I agree, to an extent. There are quite a few pistol calibers, I don't want them to add any more, they go from low end (9mm) to high end (.357 mag) and that's enough.

 

I want them to fix the 7.62x51, the model shows a Russian 7.62x54R used in the Mosin Nagant and SVD, "R" meaning rimmed, which is clearly shown, yet the 7.62x51 is a round used in battle rifles such as the G3 or the FNFAL nearly identical to the hunting cartridge .308 Win.

Edited July 19, 2014 by Alldaypk

[KingOfTime 267]

Any AK variant using nato round just seems dirty and wrong to me. 5.45x39 and 7.62x39 only please.

[hombrecz 832]

 

 

They did this because they aren't in favor of adding new cartridges that are only going to be used in one gun.

 

I know that and I think it's bad decision from both gameplay perspective and realism one as well.

 

I'm pretty sure loaded magazines can be found in any mil spawn.

 

Still having both AK and western AR's use same ammo means they will share loot tables for ammo thus it will be hard to differentiate their usage.

Normally I would expect AK74 to be used more, because it's ammo should be more plentiful in former East block country. Now that is not possible.

 

I want them to fix the 7.62x51, the model shows a Russian 7.62x54R used in the Mosin Nagant and SVD, "R" meaning rimmed, which is clearly shown, yet the 7.62x51 is a round used in battle rifles such as the G3 or the FNFAL nearly identical to the hunting cartridge .308 Win.

Model of ammo has basically zero influence on gameplay and I could care less about it.

It is enough to navigate if description is correct so no, incorrect 7.62x51 model is of zero importance and can wait.

[alldaypk 63]

I know that and I think it's bad decision from both gameplay perspective and realism one as well.

 

I understand from a realism standpoint, but gameplay should come before. What makes you think it is a bad decision to have both the AK and M4 use the same ammunition? 

 

Still having both AK and western AR's use same ammo means they will share loot tables for ammo thus it will be hard to differentiate their usage.

Normally I would expect AK74 to be used more, because it's ammo should be more plentiful in former East block country. Now that is not possible.

 

Differentiating their usage is not a part of the game, but it makes sense for the AK to be the more common choice; the M4 only spawns at chopper crashes. Perhaps in the future pristine M4s might be a rare spawn even of the chopper crashes because there are other weapons spawning in place, or they come in a poorer condition. Of both rifles chambered in 5.56 the AK is the smarter choice, I don't need to go into details because I'm sure you know why.

 

Model of ammo has basically zero influence on gameplay and I could care less about it.

It is enough to navigate if description is correct so no, incorrect 7.62x51 model is of zero importance and can wait.

 

Sure, save that stuff for beta.

 

Edited July 19, 2014 by Alldaypk

[alldaypk 63]

Model of ammo has basically zero influence on gameplay and I could care less about it.

It is enough to navigate if description is correct so no, incorrect 7.62x51 model is of zero importance and can wait.

 

I want them to change the description, and the name to 7.62x54R to avoid confusion between this cartridge and the 7.62x51 cartridge used in the German G3 rifle, my point proved below:

 

 

 

I will remain hoping that at some point, Devs will see the reason and add 5.45x39 and also 7.61x54 later.

 

By "7.61x54" you probably meant 7.62x54R which they already have in-game, under the name 7.62x51. But it's simply a matter of renaming, so yea; it can wait.

[hombrecz 832]

By "7.61x54" you probably meant 7.62x54R which they already have in-game, under the name 7.62x51. But it's simply a matter of renaming, so yea; it can wait.

 

 

I want them to change the description, and the name to 7.62x54R to avoid confusion between this cartridge and the 7.62x51 cartridge used in the German G3 rifle, my point proved below:

 

Well you misunderstood. They did not include 7.62x54R, so it is not error in description at all. They merged 7.62x51 and 7.62x54R together, this is what they call caliber streamlining. Devs assumed this will please mysthical "casual" player, that would freak out if weapons had correct calibers.

 

Based on this philosophy Devs also did not make proper AK74 in 5.45x39 even when it's iconic assault rifle and shares caliber with AN-94, AEK-971 and also civilian rifles like VEPR.

 

I really thought, that it is kinda obvious why it is bad for gameplay to have western and eastern weaponry using the same caliber.

This will make it noticeably harder to control their usage separately.

 

Yes, for example M4 is now only at helicrashes, but even if you find AK101 in barracks, getting ammo will be the same problem as for M4.  And I don't think magazines spawning full will fix this, since those can be quite rare, thus gimping usage of AK rifle, which should not have this problem as opposed to western weapons.

 

Same problem is with 7.62x51 being used by Mosin, Blazer and probably also some future western DMR's or such.

Again, you will be unable to properly control their usage, because by making ammo for hypothetical DMR rare, you would hurt Mosin as well.

Edited July 19, 2014 by Hombre

[Katana67 2907]

Very uncool to have member of AK74 family in NATO caliber. I will no longer comment on how weird that is, but simply imagine game situated somewhere in USA having M4 rifle chambered in Wasraw pact caliber because hey, it can be done in real life !

 

Also this is bad from gameplay perspective. 5.56x45 should be more rare than WP ammunition, but to balance it, western rifles (M4, G36 etc) could have been lets say tad more accurate and more customisable. Trade off ofc being ammo and the gun itself harder to find.

 

Now add iconic east bloc weapon (AK74) into the mix and have it use NATO caliber.

That will prevent AK to be more commonly used, because it will suffer from harder to find ammo and because of this, you will be lot better to use M4 or any other western AR devs will add. Or this AK101 will behave almost identicaly as M4, which is bad as well, as it kills variability other then visual.

 

It is sad to see quite variable pistol calibers, yet rifle & assault rifle calibers are neglected down to mere 3 types?

I will remain hoping that at some point, Devs will see the reason and add 5.45x39 and also 7.61x54 later.

 

Again, I don't see anything wrong with including the AK-101. Would you rather have it be named AK-74M and be firing 5.56x45? Would you rather it not be in altogether? I think not. This is a compromise to get content in the game whilst maintaining a small aspect of correctness (i.e. in just renaming it to AK-101 so that it makes sense to be firing 5.56x45).

 

I agree about the ammunition, it's a bad idea to have 5.56x45 be applied to the AK-101 and an ostensibly rarer weapon like the M4A1. But perhaps there's something to be said for making 7.62x39 the more common of the two, and thereby having the AKM be the more common AK to come across.

 

And there's not much to suggest that the AK-101 will behave "identically" to the M4A1 simply because it fires the same round. There are other aspects to weapon behavior which can be realistically/artificially rendered (i.e. barrel length, recoil, reload times, rate of fire, modularity [which is a bit confusing how they're just applying the AKM attachments to the AK-101], effective range, etc.) Plus they can give the weapons whatever statistical performance values they want.

 

Conversely, I wouldn't be upset if they included an AR-15 or RPC Fort Tavor chambered in 5.45x39. They're very cool weapons.

 

I will say it again as well - the only caliber that needs to be de-amalgamated or given another counterpart (i.e. 7.62x54R) is 7.62x51. They can make tweaks to balance (albeit general ones) with two rounds like 5.56x45 and 7.62x39 respectively. But they can't do so with just one full rifle round.

Edited July 19, 2014 by Katana67

[hombrecz 832]

I agree about the ammunition, it's a bad idea to have 5.56x45 be applied to the AK-101 and an ostensibly rarer weapon like the M4A1. But perhaps there's something to be said for making 7.62x39 the more common of the two, and thereby having the AKM be the more common AK to come across.

 

I'm just glad Devs changed mind about CZ527 using 5.56, that would be even worse then AK101 instead of AK74 with 5.45.

There is really not much to say about this. It is bad solution both gameplay and realism wise, that is if Chernarus should retain atleast shred of authenticity of eastern country and provide reasonable differences between NATO and WP weapons.

 

 

I will say it again as well - the only caliber that needs to be de-amalgamated or given another counterpart (i.e. 7.62x54R) is 7.62x51. They can make tweaks to balance (albeit general ones) with two rounds like 5.56x45 and 7.62x39 respectively. But they can't do so with just one full rifle round.

 

Your opinion, fair enough, I do not share it though.

I agree that we need both 7.62x51 and x54R, but I will continue to advocate adding of 5.45x39 as well. Only "problematic" thing with 5.45x39 I can see is, that except AK74, AN-94 and AEK-971 + Vepr, there is not that many other weapons that would use that caliber. Still 3x AR's and 1 civilian rifle does not seem too bad plus the fact that AK74 in correct caliber simply IS iconic weapon.

Edited July 19, 2014 by Hombre

[SFRGaming 718]

Any AK variant using nato round just seems dirty and wrong to me. 5.45x39 and 7.62x39 only please.

Well it's not like they pulled it out of their ass. The AK-101 does utilize 5.56x45 IRL.

[Katana67 2907]

Your opinion, fair enough, I do not share it though.

I agree that we need both 7.62x51 and x54R, but I will continue to advocate adding of 5.45x39 as well. Only "problematic" thing with 5.45x39 I can see is, that except AK74, AN-94 and AEK-971 + Vepr, there is not that many other weapons that would use that caliber. Still 3x AR's and 1 civilian rifle does not seem too bad plus the fact that AK74 in correct caliber simply IS iconic weapon.

 

This is where you misunderstand me. You can have your opinion, I'd never even think of removing that and certainly would never tell you to stop holding it (as you, in contrast to some of the more vocal folks on this forum, actually display coherent reasoning in what you're asserting).

 

I actually share your opinion, too. In an ideal world, I'd love for 5.45x39 to be included rather than have to placate folks who value "realism" explicitly, by offering these workarounds (which are equally as "realistic" but require more effort on my part in suggesting them). I view 5.45x39 as an extra tool in being able to balance the assault rifle cartridges inasmuch as they relate to their respective weapons. I just do not view it as necessary to do so because we've already got 7.62x39 and 5.56x45 respectively.

 

I want 5.45x39 in DayZ. I just don't view it as a necessity, because it just isn't from a pragmatic perspective. We've got two data points with which to balance the assault rifle cartridges. Which may not provide for the most applicable or wholesome balancing/tweaking, but it's at the very least possible. Things are different with 7.62x51 (i.e. the full rifle cartridges) which cannot be tweaked to accommodate any variety of weapons. It is wholly ubiquitous, by virtue of it being a single item.

 

And also, there are 7.62x39 bullpups which would approximate the Vepr (like the AKU-94 and OTs-14-1A), a 7.62x39 version of the AEK-971 (see AEK-973), and obviously there are 7.62x39 approximations for the AK-74M (in the AKM and/or AK-103).

 

The only weapon that you listed which is relatively unique and/or unavailable in 7.62x39, is the AN-94. And even then, its uniqueness is certainly debatable (as it can be argued that it's "just another AK-pattern weapon").

 

That and if you're (speaking generally, not about you) willing to support an overcomplicated, pulley-driven, seldom-used, disfavored, pseudo-prototypical, COD/BF-popularized, weapon like the AN-94... then folk should be supporting Mk 17s and M110s left and right.

Edited July 19, 2014 by Katana67

[-Gews- 7443]

And also, there are 7.62x39 bullpups which would approximate the Vepr (like the AKU-94 and OTs-14-1A), a 7.62x39 version of the AEK-971 (see AEK-973), and obviously there are 7.62x39 approximations for the AK-74M (in the AKM and/or AK-103).

 

There are indeed 7.62x39 versions, but apart from "realism" the caliber is also a large part of a weapon's character, sometimes more important than the appearance of the 3D model ("beauty is only skin-deep"), perhaps even more so in standalone due to civilian vs military ammunition spawn locations and larger disparities between the damage of certain guns.

 

It seems clear what their overall caliber plan is, so right now it's positive that they have added the .380 instead of using 9x19mm and labelled it AK-101 instead of AK-74.

[Katana67 2907]

There are indeed 7.62x39 versions, but apart from "realism" the caliber is also a large part of a weapon's character, sometimes more important than the appearance of the 3D model ("beauty is only skin-deep"), perhaps even more so in standalone due to civilian vs military ammunition spawn locations and larger disparities between the damage of certain guns.

 

It seems clear what their overall caliber plan is, so right now it's positive that they have added the .380 instead of using 9x19mm and labelled it AK-101 instead of AK-74.

 

A large part of the weapon's character is arbitrary though. Meaning, whatever caliber it's chambered in, the developers can have the weapons behave however they want. I recall asking you about which pieces hold which statistics (i.e. magazine, round, weapon, etc.) and can't remember specifics. But either way, it's dependent on configuration values that can be tweaked. However, there are indeed more ways of differentiating weapons in terms of their "character" than just ballistics. Like reload times for certain weapons (like bullpups), modularity, recoil, etc.

 

Granted, I want 5.45x39 as well. But to reiterate, from a standpoint of being able to tailor the weapon-cartridge-utilization relationship, I don't view it as necessary. Nor do I view it as some sort of monumental loss in not having it.

 

I do hope they get around to de-amalgamating 7.62x51 sooner rather than later, if only for peace of mind. While I'd rather it just be divided into 7.62x51, 7.62x54R, and <insert hunting round here> I think the hinted .308/7.62x54R divide will be a good start.

 

I still don't really assign much merit to the argument of it being too confusing. I never really heard anyone complain about this particular aspect in the mod which was different, granted, but still had a wide variety of hybrid ammunition-magazine types. A round either fits into the magazine you have on you or it doesn't, it couldn't be any simpler. I was sort of simultaneously appalled and hopeful that what seemed to be the main source of concern regarding "confusion" was just the names being similar, versus anything to do with variety or limitations.

 

I am in favor of just changing the names to "7.62 NATO," "7.62 AK," and "7.62 Rimmed" with appropriate inventory filler. Then adding a dedicated hunting round like .30-06 or .300 Win Mag. That'd be simple enough for most to understand at first glance, in my opinion.

 

Might simplify the nomenclature further if they had the "7.62" lineup be named as such in order to indicate a potentiality for the corresponding weapons being "military" as opposed to the ".30X" formula being used to indicate that the rounds are to be used in "civilian/hunting" weapons.

Edited July 20, 2014 by Katana67

[hombrecz 832]

I want 5.45x39 in DayZ. I just don't view it as a necessity, because it just isn't from a pragmatic perspective. We've got two data points with which to balance the assault rifle cartridges. Which may not provide for the most applicable or wholesome balancing/tweaking, but it's at the very least possible. Things are different with 7.62x51 (i.e. the full rifle cartridges) which cannot be tweaked to accommodate any variety of weapons. It is wholly ubiquitous, by virtue of it being a single item.

 

And also, there are 7.62x39 bullpups which would approximate the Vepr (like the AKU-94 and OTs-14-1A), a 7.62x39 version of the AEK-971 (see AEK-973), and obviously there are 7.62x39 approximations for the AK-74M (in the AKM and/or AK-103).

 

The only weapon that you listed which is relatively unique and/or unavailable in 7.62x39, is the AN-94. And even then, its uniqueness is certainly debatable (as it can be argued that it's "just another AK-pattern weapon").

 

 

What is puzzling me still is, that adding of 5.45 can not be such a huge ammount of work, it just can not.

It would make sense to have AR's in east block 7.62x39 + 5.45x39.

Then logicaly western AR's in 5.56x45 and we need ofc 7.62x51 be it for some marksman rifles or some heavier AR's etc.

 

Then as you said, game would benefit from 7.62x54R to make Mosin's, SVD's and others not connected with nato rifle caliber.

Hunting caliber would be cool too, for civilian spawns, but not sure which one that should be. Surely would not want the to add some obscure caliber just for the sake of gameplay.

 

To those Russian AR's you mentioned, being available in 7.62x39 as well (AEK-973 etc), they ofc exist. Still, from gameplay's side, I can't see much good of having basically all russian AR's to use just 7.62x39, because it would be your "russian AR" caliber to get, same as now 7.62x51 is your rifle caliber to get.

 

I realise that game can work even as we have it now, caliber wise. Still I want more from DayZ, because I want it to be best game possible and this caliber streamlining is, in my opinion, huge step in the wrong direction and is not needed at all.

 

 

I still don't really assign much merit to the argument of it being too confusing. I never really heard anyone complain about this particular aspect in the mod which was different, granted, but still had a wide variety of hybrid ammunition-magazine types. A round either fits into the magazine you have on you or it doesn't, it couldn't be any simpler. I was sort of simultaneously appalled and hopeful that what seemed to be the main source of concern regarding "confusion" was just the names being similar, versus anything to do with variety or limitations.

Agree 100%. I'm a bit suspicious, that this confusion exists only in minds of Devs for some reason. Mod, as you correctly said, had no such problems, why would it then matter for standalone? More so if they already sold kinda enough to call it a success.

[Etherimp 1323]

380? I don't even bother now with the 9mm when I can have the 357 magnum or 45 ACP (FNX preferred over 1911) let alone 380...never touch the 22 either, what point is there to it to use the low calibres unless it's all you can find?

 

 

The Amphibia S is great for zombies. 

[Katana67 2907]

What is puzzling me still is, that adding of 5.45 can not be such a huge ammount of work, it just can not.

It would make sense to have AR's in east block 7.62x39 + 5.45x39.

Then logicaly western AR's in 5.56x45 and we need ofc 7.62x51 be it for some marksman rifles or some heavier AR's etc.

 

Agree 100%. I'm a bit suspicious, that this confusion exists only in minds of Devs for some reason. Mod, as you correctly said, had no such problems, why would it then matter for standalone? More so if they already sold kinda enough to call it a success.

 

I think the "confusion" issue is really the only thing. After getting some (direct and indirect) feedback from the developers, this really seems to be the only thing driving the "streamlining" of calibers. The good thing is, this is an issue which has been the source of debate amongst the developers. So, it's far from settled. And also, they are adding calibers so it's not as if they're just leaving it as is.

 

It certainly isn't any limitations imposed by the loot system that's driving it, or a lack of emphasis on "realism" and appropriate calibers, or a bashfulness with regard to it being "more work."

 

It really is just the assertion that more calibers would be too confusing for players that's causing all of this. Which is about as ridiculous an argument as could be imagined. I mean, players aren't idiots (even so-called casual players). It isn't rocket science knowing if an AKM takes 7.62x39 or 5.45x39. Even if you somehow can't figure it out, one round works in the weapon and the other doesn't. It's really that simple. And plus, it's not like games with complex inventories and different items cannot appeal to a wide audience (see Mass Effect 1, the Elder Scrolls series, most MMOs, etc.)

 

Moreover, it's not like they need to appeal to a broader audience in the first place. They already have a massive fanbase who've purchased the game. I doubt they'd be driven off in droves if a few new calibers were added. And it's not like (well it is with some people, who view every caliber under the Russian sun as a necessity) every single caliber is being asked for. I really only want four new calibers (i.e. 7.62x54R, <insert dedicated hunting cartridge here>, <insert long-range sniping cartridge here>, and maybe 5.45x39).

 

And even if most players can't manage simple 1+1=2 (i.e. 5.45x39 + AK-74M = functioning weapon) then why should these people even be considered if they lower the bar of the game? This is an area which I don't really like to discuss, as it really brings out the vitriol in folks when they deem something as "casual." But, in short, it just really isn't that hard. People might be raving, frothing, illogical morons. But they can manage the knowledge (which would/could certainly be displayed in item descriptions for those who don't want to retain said knowledge) of what caliber matches with whatever weapon they've got at the time.

 

 

Then as you said, game would benefit from 7.62x54R to make Mosin's, SVD's and others not connected with nato rifle caliber.

Hunting caliber would be cool too, for civilian spawns, but not sure which one that should be. Surely would not want the to add some obscure caliber just for the sake of gameplay.

 

To those Russian AR's you mentioned, being available in 7.62x39 as well (AEK-973 etc), they ofc exist. Still, from gameplay's side, I can't see much good of having basically all russian AR's to use just 7.62x39, because it would be your "russian AR" caliber to get, same as now 7.62x51 is your rifle caliber to get.

 

I realise that game can work even as we have it now, caliber wise. Still I want more from DayZ, because I want it to be best game possible and this caliber streamlining is, in my opinion, huge step in the wrong direction and is not needed at all.

 

This is why I think you and others need to distance yourselves from the "realism" and/or "authenticity" line of argument. Yes, I get that it's very important to you. It is to me too.

 

But it isn't relevant to the course of making a game. It isn't pragmatic. It doesn't offer any reasoning or solution other than, "this is realistic, do it."

 

If you can argue that a certain inclusion (be it "realistic" or "unrealistic") is beneficial to gameplay, that argument becomes much more relevant and applicable to DayZ. Especially in the stage it's in now.

 

In other words, I think some of the people on this forum need to reorient their language and/or arguments toward pragmatic gameplay concerns in order to actually get what they want. Which is ostensibly more "realistically" depicted weapons. The thing that a lot of people miss, is that many of the "realistic" suggestions can also be argued to have tangible benefits to gameplay. But very few people are actually able to fuse the more subjective and idealistic desire for "realism" with the relevant pragmatism that's necessary to make a game.

[alldaypk 63]

 

The Amphibia S is great for zombies. 

 

It is the underdog of zombie killing, whoever has one in our squad becomes designated zombie killer.

[hombrecz 832]

This is why I think you and others need to distance yourselves from the "realism" and/or "authenticity" line of argument. Yes, I get that it's very important to you. It is to me too.

 

But it isn't relevant to the course of making a game. It isn't pragmatic. It doesn't offer any reasoning or solution other than, "this is realistic, do it."

 

If you can argue that a certain inclusion (be it "realistic" or "unrealistic") is beneficial to gameplay, that argument becomes much more relevant and applicable to DayZ. Especially in the stage it's in now.

 

In other words, I think some of the people on this forum need to reorient their language and/or arguments toward pragmatic gameplay concerns in order to actually get what they want. Which is ostensibly more "realistically" depicted weapons. The thing that a lot of people miss, is that many of the "realistic" suggestions can also be argued to have tangible benefits to gameplay. But very few people are actually able to fuse the more subjective and idealistic desire for "realism" with the relevant pragmatism that's necessary to make a game.

 

Well I was trying to make some arguments, as why 5.45x39 would be good for gameplay. I might have failed in that regard though, as it's often not easy to argue in foreign lanugage.

 

So in my opinion, adding of 5.45x39 would allow several russian assault rifles to be added into the game and due to different caliber, they could be controler separately from 7.62x39 and 5.56x45 weapons. Meaning they could deal different damage then mentioned calibers and their ammo would also have specific rarity.

 

Taking reality as a guide, 5.45x39 assault rifles could be more abundant than 7.62x39 and ofc NATO ones. This would allow 7.62x39 be somehow more rare in military installations, although that ammo should be still part of civilian loot tables once CZ527 is in game. I would expect 7.62x39 to do more damage, but has more of a bullet drop and recoil, while 5.45x39 would be the opposite.

 

So yes, this is my opinion about this and I agree with your last post except the part of "maybe" adding 5.45x39 :-).