The ONLY Realistic Way to Prevent Deathmatching: Make DayZ a Living Hell

[subvision 14]

I have something here regarding trust. Please take your time and watch it fully:

This is the point why people don't trust each other and shoot on sight. Cooperation is circumstantial. Shoot first, ask later. That video is an awful example of really mean people and the reason why I don't trust anybody. I would care a shit if he has some information or not. I would just shoot to save my life and my gear.

Edited July 25, 2012 by subvision

[subvision 14]

Noone has to say something about this video?

[S3V3N 1402]

Well I have something to say. That was creative! I was actually expecting them to shoot each other in the end. If someone would have started to shoot they would have soon lost all their awesome weapons - wherever did that dude get an M107 with full mags? Must have taken a while. The teamwork in this group worked, even though I wouldn't enjoy playing like a dick; but that's up to every player.

The game surely encourages everyone to play like a 12 year old, think selfish and cry out loud if some injustice has happened to yourself. What I would like for it is to address the other aspects of people who would actually like to focus more on the survival and coop aspects of it; on the better side of human behavior. There is no room for morality or reason to have empathy in the game, as of now. I guess playing good and exploring becomes stale after a while, so naturally it turns into a game of killing other players in creative way. It's just that now there are so many groups and people just waiting at loot zones, killing unarmed players, etc. that it almost stops making sense.

In other words: I would like a more mature game that deals with moral choice and consequence and that has some development to it. At the moment it's only a big deathmatch simulator.

[mam795 1]

I got goosebumps reading your post.

The world you're describing sounds terrifying.

You have my beans dude...

[Xist3nce 11]

I have something here regarding trust. Please take your time and watch it fully:

(Video snipped for space)

This is the point why people don't trust each other and shoot on sight. Cooperation is circumstantial. Shoot first, ask later. That video is an awful example of really mean people and the reason why I don't trust anybody. I would care a shit if he has some information or not. I would just shoot to save my life and my gear.

This is one of the better examples of the community murdering eachother, I personally would join the underground arena, I think it would be fun to battle random people in an arena. I'm normally a friendly medic, I think they could rally more players by just saying they were going to a gladiator arena, personally I'd hop on the bus, but then again, I do run around the wasteland giving people stuff, so theres a good chance I'm insane.

[arkod 9]

Some of the changes are good if you'r looking for a live simulator, but for a survival simulator GAME they'r just not fun.

Specially the broken legs and limps:

-Right now the only way to fix a broken bone is with morphine and if you don't have it, you'r screwed -> That's fine

-The sugestion is something about being slower after the heal. That would make the game less fun. I'd kill my character and start over rather than walking for hours.

-Also you'r talking about the mending process taking a full day "ingame". Since for now it's a 24h day cycle, who would want to wait a full day ingame, doing nothing (walking), waiting for the bone to be healed?

What I'm trying to say is even if it's a simulator, it's still a game and you have to keep people entretained while they'r playing. Some things can be done without loosing the fun factor, other things are just "too real" to be in a game.

[Xist3nce 11]

Some of the changes are good if you'r looking for a live simulator, but for a survival simulator GAME they'r just not fun.

Specially the broken legs and limps:

-Right now the only way to fix a broken bone is with morphine and if you don't have it, you'r screwed -> That's fine

-The sugestion is something about being slower after the heal. That would make the game less fun. I'd kill my character and start over rather than walking for hours.

-Also you'r talking about the mending process taking a full day "ingame". Since for now it's a 24h day cycle, who would want to wait a full day ingame, doing nothing (walking), waiting for the bone to be healed?

What I'm trying to say is even if it's a simulator, it's still a game and you have to keep people entretained while they'r playing. Some things can be done without loosing the fun factor, other things are just "too real" to be in a game.

Partially true, but on morphine you'd be able to still run, even with the splint on, but when the effect wears off you would have to walk, I could see that being feasible? most people keep a stock of morphine, or that could be just me.

[subvision 14]

Making DayZ a murder-sim is horrible! I have no big idea about this, but there should be a penalty for playerkilling, as I have posted in other threads. The cruel world should give the needed amount of chance people playing together instead of just killing each other.

At the moment, DayZ is nothing more than a call of duty multiplayer with zombies. This should be changed ASAP.

[Alchemist349 0]

You want realistic?, make it so you can't properly bandage yourself, if you do yourself you only slow the bleeding, not stop it. Having applied a combat applique tourniquet (C.A.T), Morphine and a good slapping to a guy who'd been hit with a 7.62 round I can confirm you're not in your right mind, the guy tried to bandage his good leg FFS.

[Xist3nce 11]

You want realistic?, make it so you can't properly bandage yourself, if you do yourself you only slow the bleeding, not stop it. Having applied a combat applique tourniquet (C.A.T), Morphine and a good slapping to a guy who'd been hit with a 7.62 round I can confirm you're not in your right mind, the guy tried to bandage his good leg FFS.

Would be interesting, but the community wouldn't enjoy it because most want to be able to fully recover from any issue alone, as to not affect any "lone wolves". Personally I think true "lone wolves" shouldn't have a problem with making the game much harder. Just means they have to be better at what they do, and it makes the hunt just that more enjoyable.

[naizarak 41]

good suggestions. game needs to be made harder to discourage pvp.

[Powell (DayZ) 734]

I have something here regarding trust. Please take your time and watch it fully:

This is the point why people don't trust each other and shoot on sight. Cooperation is circumstantial. Shoot first, ask later. That video is an awful example of really mean people and the reason why I don't trust anybody. I would care a shit if he has some information or not. I would just shoot to save my life and my gear.

thats sorta realistic though, I wouldn't be surprised if that stuff happened in a post-apocalyptic era

[Tyler Bro 20]

I have something here regarding trust. Please take your time and watch it fully:

This is the point why people don't trust each other and shoot on sight. Cooperation is circumstantial. Shoot first, ask later. That video is an awful example of really mean people and the reason why I don't trust anybody. I would care a shit if he has some information or not. I would just shoot to save my life and my gear.

This is legit!

[Tyler Bro 20]

I completely agree with you OP.

and whatever changes are bad, they can just be fixed or removed since it's alpha.

DO IT ROCKET!

[subvision 14]

This is legit!

Morally this is just evil. And I hate evil players. I'm one of the kind helping others out. So I can't see the fun in luring beginners into a trap. That's no fun for me and it isn't legit. They should be banned from the server for this.

It's no wonder nobody has trust in the other player.

[U.B.C.S. Ravin 326]

U.B.C.S. Supports the OP. :beans: :beans: :beans:

[Tyler Bro 20]

Morally this is just evil. And I hate evil players. I'm one of the kind helping others out. So I can't see the fun in luring beginners into a trap. That's no fun for me and it isn't legit. They should be banned from the server for this.

It's no wonder nobody has trust in the other player.

It's part of the game, It's what rocket wants. He would of approve of it.

[subvision 14]

It's part of the game, It's what rocket wants. He would of approve of it.

It's nice that Rocket wants a playground for sick psychopaths.

[S3V3N 1402]

It's nice that Rocket wants a playground for sick psychopaths.

I think you are overreacting a little. those players had nothing to lose but their life. And at least that group was somewhat creative. I am much more annoyed by campers and people who just shoot without even trying to make an effort to communicate. There are so many nubs I could have taken out and only injured, because they shot first. The problem is that really everybody becomes that way out of paranoia. People you don't know personally are enemies - I am not sure that is what Rocket wants. It reduces the potential of the game quite a bit and makes teaming without Skype impossible.But I guess for some people killing and looting others is enough.

[kerbholz 5]

I hijacked a bus two days ago, hope it was theirs ;)

[subvision 14]

People you don't know personally are enemies - I am not sure that is what Rocket wants. It reduces the potential of the game quite a bit and makes teaming without Skype impossible.But I guess for some people killing and looting others is enough.

I'm not sure about Rockets plans either. But I doubt he wanted players to shoot dumb at each other on sight without communicating first. So, I guess you are somewhat right.

And because of overreacting: Maybe I was overreacting, but I just don't like this way to play, may it be creative or not. It simply seems wrong to me. I am sorry for every guy who thinks leading newbies into a trap is amusing.

[RJLupin2 3]

I don't know. I'm slowly losing faith in the community of this game. I was playing on a server last night, I think it was US #500 [uTC -4], and it was night time. I was playing with a two other people. We all coordinated a place to meet, and, through a lot of trial and error, we finally all got there (after about 3 hours of hassle with Steam auto updating Arma and all) and started playing. After fifteen minutes of making our way slowly from the Cherno barn to the Cherno Firestation, we were slowly making our way to the grocery store nearby. We were in the middle of a field, when suddenly, we were all dropped by people in the dark. I'm thinking it was probably two guys, maybe three, based on how two of us were killed at almost the same time and one of us was in the dark.

This was so fucking frustrating for us! We spent all that time trying to play and having it not work, then, when we finally do get it to work, we get killed off immediately. The worst part is, I'm pretty sure one, if not all of them had NVGs, which just pissed me off more because, what? You find NVGs then head to the shore to kill lower "level" players? That's so unfair and overpowered, and not to mention fucked up. That's like picking on someone smaller than you because the people at the same size are harder...

I could be wrong about the NVG part, though, but they were apparently still shooting at one of my friends even in the pitch darkness, so who knows.

I guess what really pisses me off about this is that we were completely vulnerable and we didn't even know they were there. Our vulnerability was so obvious that I was actually thinking that people might show mercy if they saw us, thinking "Heh, look at those guys over there. They're such easy targets. Hell, they all even have their flashlights out. What's the point?". But no, that's not what happened. They could have easily passed us by with the cover of night, but they chose the PVP route because that's what this community's become.

OP, I love your suggestions and I think PvE is the one of the only ways to get people to not just shoot on sight. I also think if there were some form of incentive to not engage in combat and generally some form of self preservation, things might look up. That said, based on how many people think it's edgy to be a bandit and support banditry (I actually really love the bandits, just not the 12 year old mentality of "This is something that's exploitable so I'm going to exploit it whether you like it or not! Nah nah nah nah boo boo!"), I'm not sure these changes would go over well.

Rocket and company, you've made a fantastic mod and experience, I honestly commend you guys for that, and I hope the mod continues to thrive, but... I'm just not sure how long this game will continue to keep my appeal with this constant state of unrealistic PvP (and yes, I said unrealistic, naysayers. Do you honestly think people would put themselves in danger of permanently losing the one life they have as much as the people who play this game do? Not a chance. There's a reason why you see stalemate scenarios in real life where people point guns at each other but no one actually shoots, and there's a reason why you'd never see that in DayZ; there's hardly any real fear of death, or even a real reason to fear it. You just come back and it's as simple and easy as that). I really hope you guys are able to find a workaround, and maybe implementing some of these ideas will help you get there.

Good luck.

Edited July 26, 2012 by RJLupin2

[kerbholz 5]

I don't know. I'm slowly losing faith in the community of this game. I was playing on a server last night, I think it was US #500 [uTC -4], and it was night time. I was playing with a two other people. We all coordinated a place to meet, and, through a lot of trial and error, we finally all got there (after about 3 hours of hassle with Steam auto updating Arma and all) and started playing. After fifteen minutes of making our way slowly from the Cherno barn to the Cherno Firestation, we were slowly making our way to the grocery store nearby. We were in the middle of a field, when suddenly, we were all dropped by people in the dark. I'm thinking it was probably two guys based on how two of us were killed at almost the same time, maybe three.

This was so fucking frustrating for us. We spent all that time trying to play and having it not work, then, when we finally do get it to work, we get killed off immediately. The worst part is, I'm pretty sure one, if not all of them, had NVGs, which just pissed me off more because, what, you find NVGs then head to the shore to kill lower level players? That's so unfair and overpowered.

I could be wrong about that, though, but they were apparently still shooting at one of my friends in the pitch darkness, so who knows.

I guess what really pisses me off about this is that we were completely vulnerable and we didn't even know they were there. Our vulnerability was so obvious that I was actually thinking that people might show mercy if they saw us, thinking "Heh, look at those guys over there. They're such easy targets. Hell, they all even have their flashlights out. What's the point?". But no. They could have easily passed us by with the cover of night, but they chose the PVP route because that's what this community's become.

OP, I love your suggestions. I think PvE is the only way to get people to not just shoot on sight. I also think if there were some form of incentive to not engage in combat and generally some form of self preservation, things might look up. That said, based on how many people who think it's edgy to be a bandit and support banditry (I actually really love the bandits, just not the 12 year old mentality of "This is something that's exploitable so I'm going to exploit it whether you like it or not! Nah nah nah nah boo boo!"), I'm not sure these changes would go over well.

Rocket and company, you've made a fantastic mod and experience, I honestly commend you guys for that, and I hope the mod continues to thrive, but I'm just not sure how long this game will continue to keep my appeal with this constant state of unrealistic PvP (and yes, I said unrealistic, naysayers. Do you honestly think people would put themselves in danger of permanently losing the one life they have as much as the people who play this game do? Not a chance. There's a reason why you see stalemate scenarios in real life where people point guns at each other but no one actually shoots, and there's a reason why you'd never see that in DayZ; there's hardly any real fear of death, or even a real reason to fear it. You just come back and it's as simple and easy as that.)

Welcome to DayZ! ;)

[S3V3N 1402]

I totally get you there. Of course, you could have sneaked through the forest or crawled across the open, but that's just a buttpain if you have to do it everywhere, assuming any open spot means a possible ambush. Players just kill to test their guns and have a laugh. Of course, when they started the game they had the same problem, but now there are too many players that are overpowered and shoot at everything.

I think it could be made that if you shoot three other players you lose all items, except the ones you carry with you (no tents, no items stored in cars, etc). The reasons why people are killing for joy is because they know they have a stash of weapons in the forest, which they can go back to after respawning. They take no risk at all and lose nothing by playing unfair. And with every new kill they find more stuff and weapons to hoard.

Edited July 26, 2012 by S3V3N

[RJLupin2 3]

Welcome to DeathmatchZ! ;)

Fixed that for you!

(Seriously though, if you don't want a prepackaged response, don't give me one to start with. Maybe then some actual discussion can occur instead of the typical 'one side who hates these things vs the other side who hates the opposite' bullshit).