The ONLY Realistic Way to Prevent Deathmatching: Make DayZ a Living Hell

[toshiba 1]

im another vote for not making it impossible to solo. But i too would like to see K.O.S. end. But please please please please! don't make this a force grouping game. I have to force group every stinking day in RL, i dont want to do it on my escapes.

I'm in the US army, and stationed at Kuwait right now. I have played a TON of online games over the last decade+ (first one was the Realm, lol) and every time they have tried to make it to where you HAVE to group, i move on.

i do think we need incentives to group, but not a requirement. And i think the reason people don't group is because there is nothing permanent about the game. If you die, no big. Even in lawless times of human history, people have grouped. They wanted to build, and they wanted to use each others talents. This leads me to believe that two things will have to occur in order for people to desire to group.

1. Permanency. They are going to be able to have to carve out a nitch of their own, but need to have help to do it. Because the game 1 hour in is almost identical to 8 hours in right now. BUT, if say, one man can make a tent, two can build a better tent, three or four, maybe a perimeter with an npc guard or two... This can scale up to the point entire towns that can produce food and water (BIG group) and become trading post. (If you look at history, this is how and why most places form towns)

2. Exclusive skills (and I don't mean classes per say) I would think more of a classless system. a skill tree that you can advance down for every hour alive, with a cap on max time. You can specialize, and be a very narrow but useful person (healers come readily to mind, also technical types maintaining radio OR electrical systems, mechanics, gun smiths to improve weapons and manufacture ammo) or a generalist lone wolf (I can put on band-aids, and i can hunt, and oh oh oh i know how to track game)

Basically, make the game more about more then find loot, spend loot, rinse and repeat

But thats just me, maybe i need to brush up on java or something

[Ford Prefect (DayZ) 0]

dont like the idea, because players, who starts already in groups, would have a very big advantage. u wont survive, when u join a server, where nobody knows you.

So it is ok as it is - for first they should fix the bugs.

[rjack85 55]

bullshit...forced grouping doesn't work. It's been done and fails.

[KWilt 157]

Good luck with this idea. Because in the end, if you do get that partner, there's no realistic reason why you shouldn't shoot him and take all the supplies that you no longer have to share.

Shit being scarce is an even bigger reason to indulge PvP. That guy 100m off to your north could have two cans of beans that you could eat, rather than a can of beans each for the both of you.

And this idea of having more multi-person activities is nice, but as was said above, forcing cooperation isn't going to work very well. I've been shot in the back one too many times after having helped someone out, and given the chance, I'd probably do the same to someone if I felt they could threaten my life.

I have yet to find a single possible way to communicate with someone out in the open when even one of the parties has a gun. You're just 95% safer in shooting on site than trusting people.

[zane 2]

i cant agree more with the OP

food, canteens, ammo, weapons, tools, ... need to be more scarce + zombies need to be more lethal, not necesarily need more of them.

[evoxtom 142]

Well we already had a food and water shortage for a few days. People couldn't stop complaining. Even though it adds an interesting twist, but it might put a huge dent in the one thing making this game grow so fast- the huge player base. Dayz probably sold more copies of arma2 than arma2 did itself. It'll pay off down the road since rocket already works for bi. I don't think making the game so hard will work for that reason right now.

[Rudson (DayZ) 61]

I like the idea but forced coop does not work and it is just not fair for more casual players.

Imagine if you only can play two hours a day, or even worse. If you have no friends playing with you, cause not everybody is a fan of dayz, and so on.

I think coopgaming should give you a bonus. Add a socialfactor that would be nice, working like a buff.

For example: If you are attacked as a member of team, you have more "will to survive" making you bleed less and you are more resistant to stress because you know your not alone in the battle. Such things would be cool, but never make Dayz a game only for people who play 5 hours a day with 10 friends.

so long Rudson.

[methodology 4]

I don't think he's advocating forced coop/partying. Just that the balance of gameplay should be shifted back towards cooperation as being the most beneficial default choice rather than the least beneficial of killing, running, ignoring, coop. Making survival much more difficult is probably the best way to get that to work without resorting to more heavy handed tampering (like bandit penalties).

I think of it more like: you wouldn't necessary need to run with someone all the time, but there should be a general need to be around and work with other players in a course of a session. Like currently if you're heading toward a supermarket and you see anyone else, you basically have to shoot to save your life. But wouldn't it be better that your first instinct is to work with that other person cause getting in by yourself is going to be hell. Sure, I'll probably cap your ass after our congratulatory celebrations after getting inside but I still worked with you, and that's what's important (joking!, I wouldn't kill you until you took the alice pack i was eyeing).

[rjack85 55]

From what I can see the basic game mechanics do not lead to any trust. I can only assume it is meant to be that way. Making shit scarcer will not change that or basic human nature.

The biggest issue facing the player who doesn't want to become that murdering SOB that just shot you in the back while you were bent over looting is that once you get most of the items you need to survive, there really isn't much else to do. Might as well make the game more interesting for yourself and become a bandito and harass the newbies.

For this reason alone the mod has a limited future and may not be something that is financially viable...but that is a thread all its own.

[athrins 39]

I LOVE this idea!

While surviving for several days atm is quite rare, it's not because of the difficulty in surviving per say, but because of bugs and snipes you never see coming. I would love if surviving was really hard and unforgiving, forcing you to adapt and learn.

I would love more long-term consequences, like breaking a leg and having to crouch for several days with a stilt before you start recovering (it should feel worthwhile - death isn't just an inconvenience or a fresh start; it's not even an option!) or being infected and slowly going ill over a series of days until cured (make the cure very rare, so that you hesitate to tell your companions about your illness because they might just dispatch of you, risking all their safety with your silence).

But most important of all is to take focus away from military weapons and high-end gear and put more focus on food, drink, fortification, stealth and functional weapons. Silenced weapons and ammo shouldn't just be an achievement for any one player; it should be an unthinkable luxury only wielded by the most successful of groups/clans who were brave enough to fight/sneak their way to a military storage.

Traveling shouldn't be the best way of surviving; fortifying should, even for a loner.

When the environment and infected is your worst enemy, you will not mindlessly kill other living people when you meet them.

[bennyandthejets 12]

Hell yes. I want to see this. Another addition, instead of having all high grade weapons spawn in 1-2 locations (NW airfield) for example, make everything random.

Prevent camping, FORCE players to move around & look for gear. Ban all the dupers/hackers.

[sandorski 17]

DayZ needs a Points system. 1 Zombie Kill = 1 Point, 1 Murder = 1 Point, 1 Bandit Kill = All Murder Points of Bandit.

Certainly Points are not going to affect every Player, in fact I'm sure some will constantly belittle those with High Points. However, it is bound to influence many and would provide resistance to the shoot anyone on sight mentality.

Other possible things are Bonuses. Whether being part of a Group and/or based upon the Age/Points(as above) of an Individual, there could be a Bonus system in place. This could vary greatly, perhaps, as an example, Canned Food with bonuses would replace 200 Blood + Bonus Amount(% or x number). You could even add things like Regenerative Blood or increased chance of finding certain Loot.

[LastShenanigan 8]

Currently, I don't shoot people when I come across them if I already have supplies on me. I will most certainly kill someone if I'm starving to death and can't find food. I'm all for making the mod harder, but harder should not = forced co-op. Suggesting that players who lonewolf are the problem is completely wrong, most of the mass murders I've seen are from large groups of bandits who work together. If you ask me things aren't hard enough for grouped players currently. Sure there should be benefits to running with a group but at the same time they're often overstocked with piles of weapons, food and supplies. They get bored and then procede to go kill those of us who are scavaging or trying to survive alone in the woods. I don't mind another solo player killing me because I had gear he needed, my problem exists with the players who have so much gear stockpiled that they wander the map looking for other players to kill. Usually these people are already in groups.

[dunkhan 8]

I already posted a list of suggestions for making this game harder with exactly this in mind. You can search my posts for the full description but the main things were to make it harder inland where the good weapons spawn, and leave it relatively easy on the coast where the players spawn. This means casual players can still handle. Also lowering the level of loot that spawns in deer stands would be good. The airfield and old cathedral should be swarming with so many z's that you need a team of well armed guys and a vehicle to even hope to loot there. Currently I can spawn on the beach with nothing and be back in cherno/elektro with an assault rifle inside two hours for some pvp action. Also there is really nothing else to do when you have good gear. I am a survivalist/rp player in most games like this and love to cooperate, but in days sitting in the forest with a backpack full of cow meat staring at a tree while holding a dmr and a hand grenade is not survivalism, it is a desktop background. I might as well play something else as survival is no challenge at all.

[Panama Jack 0]

Read the first page; that's all I need to see. Splendid proposal.

[Pykan 3]

Nice ideas. I like them. Little too harsh on maybe the new guy but still it's all about evolution right.

I'm a bandit, full on, shooting first and not even asking questions. You have shit, I want your shit then I'm shooting you for it. I'll even pretend to be friendly until you turn your back and pop one in your head. Now, I generally play with 2 other bandits in a small group that roams around the entire map, we never stay in one place for too long as things get boring camping the NWAF. I sometimes "team up" with other known bandits and go raiding but we either separate peacefully or one of us dies in a hail of bullets, they also like these ideas. It promotes bandits to stay loyal to bandits and survivors to stay loyal to survivors.

TLDR : Promotes the building of sand castles.

I have more ideas I could add to this but I won't derail your post.

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

Some interesting ideas, but they will not "prevent" or even significantly reduce the presence of "deathmatching." People who play the game solely to murder other players aren't just doing it because they're bored by zombies - they are doing it because it's fun and that's what they want to do. If you force them to cooperate, they will - and thenyou will have more small teams of murderers coming to kill you instead of individuals but you'll be dead at the end of the day all the same if you don't figure out how to deal with them.

[Zalz Torus 1]

Great idea. I don't think the OP was trying to reduce PVP but reduce the benefit of shooting everyone on site, no matter if you're a bandit or peaceful survivor. Right now that is safer than workng together. If you swap that, teamwork becomes a priority, even for a few moments with a stranger. Lone wolfing should be really fucking hard to do.

I would also suggest less ammo overall. If a bullet had any real value one would think twice about wasting them. Some people anyway.

[Powell (DayZ) 734]

Great idea. I don't think the OP was trying to reduce PVP but reduce the benefit of shooting everyone on site' date=' no matter if you're a bandit or peaceful survivor. Right now that is safer than workng together. If you swap that, teamwork becomes a priority, even for a few moments with a stranger. Lone wolfing should be really fucking hard to do.

I would also suggest less ammo overall. If a bullet had any real value one would think twice about wasting them. Some people anyway.

[/quote']

Agree on all points

[ThirdHorseman 18]

"It's easier to steal than share."

I hear this excuse all the time on the forums, and it's bullshit.

The problem in this mod is not PvP. PvP is awesome. If I get shot because a player is starving to death, and needed my beans...well I'm okay with that. If a player has nothing but a crowbar and beats me to death for the winny on my back, again that's okay.

What is NOT OKAY is the guy sitting on the hospital roof with the DMR just popping people to see the "Murders:" number tick up one-by-one. That, boys and girls, is a douche.

There is nothing wrong with lone wolf play. There is nothing wrong with PvP. But you need to make the killing more meaningful.

1. Remove military grade equipment. No NVG. No thermal-sight assault rifles. No freaking 50-cal sniper rifles. This is DayZ, not ARMA2. Only weapons should be civilian.

2. Ammo needs to be incredibly scarce. When I find that Makarov mag I should dance a happy dance, not leave it on the ground and spit on it. Every pull of the trigger should be a hard decision. Do I put a few rounds into this guy, hoping he has replacements? Or do I let him walk past me? Or ask him if he has any rounds to spare. And hunting rifle rounds should be so rare they might as well be mythical.

3. Food should be more scarce than it is, but you should be able to go longer without eating. You should feel the hunger more. Rather than losing blood you should lose the ability to run fast, screen should be blurred, etc. Water works fine as it is...IRL you need to drink far more frequently than you need to eat.

This is the big one:

4. Remove the debug monitor and the kill notices, and don't release k/d stats for anyone or put them on the leaderboard. The only reason douches kill is to get that e-peen stroke of seeing their murder count tick up and that "joe has been killed" text. Remove both of those and you will see them run for the COD hills. It's also much more realistic...you shouldn't know if your shot took that guy out...or if he's circling behind you right now to pay you back.

You make these 4 changes and I promise you'll see less douches and more real PvP. The kind of PvP we can live with...

[Refried 14]

not a single one of those points will change how i play the game

1. okay, bandits will use CZ550's and lee enfields and fucking crossbows to kill you in the same places they always have. it's also absurd to think that an abandoned, death-ravaged country that had an active military would somehow not have any military equipment lying around.

2. scarcity is barely a factor when i can kill others with ammo and horde it. it also doesn't prevent me from just running my deer stand/stary circuit a couple more times than usual. it only delays the inevitable.

3. see 2

4. scoreboard and kill messages have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with how i play the game and will not alter my (or anyone else's) behavior in the slightest.

again: if players can shoot each other, they will.

please accept it and understand that it is the sole reason the game is so exciting.

[wordplayuk@gmail.com 101]

I disagree that there aren't already intensives to group up, but I welcome more and really like a lot of the ideas put forth..

Still miss bandit skins though.

[kumiiyo 11]

you've articulated your point very well, but i disagree wholeheartedly.

when you make weapons/ammo/food/EVERYTHING super scarce, then the first guy to get a gun will STILL kill everyone to take their already scarce shit-- and they can't defend themselves.

that's what we're seeing now. 1.7.1.2 was basically everything you said, but the zombies were more kooky. couldn't find shit, no guns, no food, constant bleeding and broken legs ending the game for ppl...... and the snipers.

with everything going apeshit on the ground, one of the only things left to do in the game is to climb the factory and pop newbies. you're sure as hell not gonna go down to the firestation with your DMR and offer people assistance! the second they get a hatchet they'll kill you for your gear when your back is turned.

i believe it's not making gear scarce that's gonna fix the pvp problem, but maybe. [and holy shit i just had this idea right now] there could be some sort of XP meter for good or bad deeds u do like healing ppl, giving or stealing, or killing bandits or others. all this affects your alignemnt (LIKE DnD--> lawful good, chaotic neutral, etc) and that in turn affects some perks and stuff u can do with certian items ( similar to BORDERLANDS. )

so if ur not an asshole and u help ppl with meds and transfusions, maybe u get a trickling health gain, or a -20% chance to break a leg or bleed.

if u save others from zombie deaths, u could get reduced damage vs. zombies, or something else cool

if u kill bandits, u coulld get perks like silent movement, or like -5% damage taken vs bandits, but +20% damage vs survivors (to ensure u dont abuse this skill)

i think this is an idea.

also, inb4 "COD wahhh"

[Sticker704 121]

Sorry mate, but just because you make the game a little harder, doesn't mean it's going to wipe out Deathmatch gameplay. Resources will become more scarce and will be more sought after.

[Powell (DayZ) 734]

Also I'd rather say "oh thank god" when I see someone, not "oh shit he's gonna kill me"