Too difficult/frustrating in the beginning?

[MarchmelloMan 16]

Hey guys,

after introducing some of my friends to the game I often heard the same criticism; too frustrating in the beginning, too difficult to get started.

I can actually understand them, and I also understand that it's hard to adjust the difficulty for both advanced and new players, but I wanna share some of their feedback. I know, the developers wanted to make zombies more dangerous, but the downside is, that it is quite a problem for new players to get started. Almost everyone in this forum is probably an advanced player and just looks for further challenges and adventures in DayZ, so it isn’t that easy anymore to imagine how it was in the first few hours.

Their experiences were like:

They join the game, try to orientate themselves and before they enter the first house, they are already bleeding to death.

Perhaps that bleeding effect is a little bit too much? Even more, if you need several deaths before you even know that you can bandage yourself with a wrecked t-shirt.

It would just be great if zombies could differ in strength.. making them stronger at AFs and military places and weaker at spawning locations

[tommy290 941]

A survival game that makes it easy to survive is not a survival game.

[Mos1ey 6301]

I think the real issue is that it's not diificult enough to survive after the first few hours.

[pilgrim* 3514]

In the mod a great part of the fun for a beginner was that

- you have no idea what's going on

- you get attacked by raving psycopathic zombies who CHASE you for miles

- you cant FIND food or even an axe, whatever you find is probably useless, and the ZOMBIES are coming AGAIN

- you don't know how to do ANYTHING

- Its TERRIFYING

-Its HORRIBLE when they break your legs and EAT you

you die again and again.. and again

and again

- you run out of adrenaline in front of your PC.. your body won't make any more..

- you want to do it AGAIN

 

each time you die you remember not to die like that NEXT time, if you can avoid it..

 

this is the best way to start - I don't know why it's so addictive - the unfairness of the game is amazing

I think generally the SA is calmer than the Mod, for a beginner, but other players are a greater threat than they were.

But really, nothing can beat the first 10 or maybe 15 deaths..

Brilliant Game

[chrithu 59]

A survival game that makes it easy to survive is not a survival game.

 

Kinda have to agree here.

 

For the few million people that played the mod and play SA the survival aspect and the steep learning curve were the actual thing that got them hooked in the first place. Does that mean this game won't be for everyone? Sure! Does it mean it's a niche game? Pretty sure as well! Although I'd say that it is at least debatable whether more than a million sold copies still qualifies as niche.

 

What the game is missing is a good manual and/or tutorial. But that's stuff to worry about when the game goes beta or nears it's release. The Zeds aren't actually a threat at all right now. What's the biggest threat to survival is not knowing things that are essential to survival:

 

Like where to find a melee weapon fast and how to handle Zeds. 

The importance of getting your energy and hydration levels up through eating and drinking asap in order to get to healthy state.

 

The level of realism this project aims for actually always was it's strongest selling point. It was what drew people in together with the sandbox aspects. Sandbox games and realistic sims are not for everyone. That should be accepted. Throwing those aspects over board to appeal to a broader audience is not necessary in my view. It even can be dangerous as it would turn the game into something completely different.

Edited June 23, 2014 by 31R0Y

[Mystic Bagel 128]

 I agree with one point, Zeds health shouldn't be static, and they're not.

There are faster types, slower types, stronger types (Like the MPs), and weaker types. The REAL bottom line here is, they haven't really touched on the integration of the Zeds into the game yet. Once they DO, I'm SURE that there will be a wider range of weakness/toughness due to the fact that there will be WAY more of them to contend with.

That said, and to note, I've only got 40 hrs into this Alpha, when you first start it SHOULD be confusing. Really, when was the last time you had to scavenge for food and water, remediate a spontaneous injury on the fly, or otherwise be suddenly FORCED to survive? Unless you've overcome homelessness or some other third world environment, probably never.

 

There are COUNTLESS guides available concerning your first DayZ day. If it's too confusing and difficult, I would suggest they start reading through these forums....THATS easy.

 

Secondly, I've rarely, in all of the respawns I've experienced, have I had to deal with Zeds the instant I spawn, OR within minutes, although it HAS happened and it does suck to have to run for your life before you can look for any supplies....still though, it's an unexpected and engaging scenario in DayZ.

 

My FINAL thought here is this.....IF your friends are finding it too difficult/confusing/frustrating, just wait until they spend hrs on end gathering supplies in buttfuk nowhere, finally see another human player and then get KoS and looted.....lol

So REALLY....the Zeds are actually the LEAST of their problems....and judging by their dislike of them, they are going to HATE this Alpha.

 

I don't mean to come across as though I'm an a$$hole, only that the DayZ experience isn't MEANT to be easy, and it really is TOO easy at this stage of development and will only get harder as they start to refine the game.

 

Tell your friends to read the forums

[MarchmelloMan 16]

A survival game that makes it easy to survive is not a survival game.

I'm not talking of making it easy, I'm just saying that the bleeding effect scares a lot of players off in the beginning. And it doesn't support the realism, you don't bleed like hell (almost) every time you get punched by a zombie (I guess..)

As I said, it is not easy to imagine how it was when you started, when you have already played 200 hours or more.. of course the zombies are boring then. I want to have zombies that differ in strength. Those who guard the AF have to hurt more than those who walk in the village near the coast.

And please, don't take feedback on the game personally.. that are just suggestions.

I don't mean to come across as though I'm an a$$hole

Eh, what? You are an a$$hole? How old are you?

Tell your friends to read the forums

You are saying that getting into the game should be confusing and that you should learn on your own how to scavenge food and water and explore, and then you say they should read the forums and watch videos? Intelligent advices. Edited June 23, 2014 by MarchmelloMan

[5p4rtan (DayZ) 35]

A survival game that makes it easy to survive is not a survival game.

 

I agree, but perhaps a "survival guide" like that given to players at the beginning of the game 'The Forest' would be useful.

 

A little crafting list and items needed for the crafting etc....

[Whyherro123 2283]

Really? You think it is difficult? I spawned into a hardcore server up by the new city, and within the first hour, I had a pretty decent set of clothing, was fully energized and hydrated (with some extra food and water), had two separate firearms (the Blaze, which IMO is the best weapon for a freshspawn, and arguably one of the better weapons in the game at this point, and a Magnum, my favorite gun in-game) alongside 60  rounds for the rifle and 30 rounds for the Magnum. I also had a full first aid kit, fire-building supplies, etc.

 

The game ISN'T difficult. Survival, or at least what any people think of as survival, is not that difficult, not the physical aspects (shelterbuilding, staying dry, firebuilding, water and food procurement, weather, etc). All of those skills can be learned and memorized, until they become internal instincts.

 

No, to someone trained and experienced in survival, survival isn't gear, it isn't skills, it is choice. Choice and fear. A pretty major section of survival classes is made up of stress management, panic deflecting, and calming techniques which are ultimately the real "meat" of the course. All of those skills, like how to build a fire, how to get out of the rain, etc, are being taught so you don't freak out because you don't know what to do. Panic and terror will kill you faster in a survival situation than a lack of shelter and a fire, because they lead to bad choices.

 

I can't tell you how many 15 year old kids (and some adults, last year, when I expanded the program) came into the week full of bluster and bravado, saying how "this was going to be easy!", and by the end of the week had broken down in tears many times, or put up and shut up, and started working together with the rest of the group. At the end-of-week overnight examination, I really didn't care about how good their shelter was, or how fast they got their fire going. I was looking for fear management, calm-under-fire decision making, and good group dynamics. Not too many people passed, just because of that. And all of this where they got three hot meals a day, with hot showers and cots!

 

Right now, Day Z doesn't have any choice, nor all that much fear. Gear is too plentiful, weather effects (hypothermia, with its associated mental and physical degenerative effects, hunger and dehydration, same thing.) nonexistant, atmosphere is bland (although, I wandered through the new city after a rainstorm, when the wind was howling and the sky was cloudy, and I was definitely apprehensive. It was foreboding, and actually rather disturbing, just how quiet a once-bustling city was. Excellent work, devs, that is what I want to feel!) survival aspects have little effect. However, the game is not nearly finished, so there is that!

 

In summation, these are the things I hope to see eventually;

 

1) Gear should be more rare. This also means the timeline should be pushed forward a couple of months since "the Apocalypse"

a) Improvised tools and weapons should be effective at their roles. Arrows, slung stones, and spears should be retrievable. You should be able to snare small game.

b) shelterbuilding should be implemented, as protection from the weather.

2) Weather should be a serious concern. It is mid-to-late Autumn in-game. Temperature should reflect that, with appropriate effects for the unprepared.

[Death By Crowbar 1213]

One of the first things you should tell your friends is that this is an FPS survival game, and like any FPS, if you stand still and get hit you will die. If you circle zombies via strafing (A or D keys) it's almost impossible for zombies to ever hit, couple that with double tap W to run fast and you're in business. Add to that the skill of zig zagging up hills and then running down them so the zombies kill themselves you can no only survive essentially indefinitely but do so killing zombies without even having to raise a hand/weapon to them.

 

Every time a fresh spawn attempts to stand and duke it out toe to toe with a zombie god kills a kitten... 

[Mystic Bagel 128]

Eh, what? You are an a$$hole? How old are you?

You are saying that getting into the game should be confusing and that you should learn on your own how to scavenge food and water and explore, and then you say they should read the forums and watch videos? Intelligent advices.

 

 Much older than you, son.

 

 If your buddies aren't able to feel it out on their own and think an In-Game manual is something they need, to read, then try reading the forums. I think that's, and I quote, " Intelligent advices" plural, you know, because I have made more than one suggestion, .

 

Ok, listen. You go hiking into the back country alone, everything is just sunshine and lollipops. Suddenly, and without warning the edge of the trail crumbles away under your feet and you fall down a steep embankment, rap yer noodle off of a tree, and lose consciousness. When you awaken, you have a slight concussion and cant recall which direction you were headed, your pack is 20 feet away and looks as though a bear tore through it, consuming anything that smelt like feet. Your cell phone, which didn't get a signal ANYWAYS, is smashed and unusable, so you cant access it to read the "survival guide" ebook you pirated the week before.

You are confused, scared, hungry, and bleeding........to make matters worse...WTF is THAT!!?...a fucking ZOMBIE!!?....GEEEZUZ CHRIST!!!

Edited June 23, 2014 by Mystic Bagel

[Chroma 61]

I climb (currently E6/7 Trad or averaging a 5.13b for the US folks).
Its dangerous, difficult, scary, exhausting, painful and a whole lot of fun.
The barrier to entry is high and its not for everyone, and more importantly "shouldn't be."
My regular buddies generally aren't interested, some of them expressed an interest and i took them to a few easier local pitches (a few VS crack climbs or 5.6ish in YDS) They hated it, couldn't understand putting yourself through the pain, trusting your life to "little bits of aluminium" and overcoming the fear of your ass hanging in the breeze, and the physical exertion involved in simply clinging on for dear life :)
In essence they don't have the prerequisite discipline to gain any real enjoyment from it.

Some things are NOT for everyone, and that's not being elitist, its simply stating a fact.
I suck entirely at playing the Guitar, its hard, i get fed up with lack of progress and just don't "get it."
I don't however complain that it should be made easier on my or others behalf. That's just life.
I get to see views few other people ever see, simply because the barrier to the reward is HIGH, and i imagine that people who can wail on a guitar experience similar rewards that i will likely never achieve.

Difficulty to me is a positive, the rewards for enduring are greater.
In terms of climbing, i could crank up a pitch, place gear and attach ladders to allow my regular buddies to experience the same mind-blowing visages, but i know that they wouldn't appreciate them as much as i would, having not put the work in and not faced the same terrifying risk of failure (you don't EVER trust your gear placements, you trust yourself, if you let go there's no guarantee that the rock will hold or that that cam or nut will not fail) the risks make the reward.

The same is true of DayZ, sure the cost of entry is initially high, but the rewards for success are amplified by those risks, when it goes right, it feels feels amazing, when it goes wrong you suffer.
And that, as in many walks of life is exactly as it should be ;)

Don't misunderstand, this is not a "Haha yuo are teh sux" post, im simply suggesting that things should be difficult in order to grant a sense of achievement, as with many things in life.
If you cannot overcome those difficulties, either change up and improve or find something else suited more to your tastes.
But asking for things to be made easier, i take a dim view on it...

[pilgrim* 3514]

..//..

 to someone trained and experienced in survival, survival isn't gear, it isn't skills, it is choice. Choice and fear. A pretty major section of survival classes is made up of stress management, panic deflecting, and calming techniques which are ultimately the real "meat" of the course. All of those skills, like how to build a fire, how to get out of the rain, etc, are being taught so you don't freak out because you don't know what to do. Panic and terror will kill you faster in a survival situation than a lack of shelter and a fire, because they lead to bad choices.

..//..

 

I'm so pleased to hear players say this, instead of talking about weapon-technology

 

you made my day, dude.

Beanz !

[Whyherro123 2283]

I'm so pleased to hear players say this, instead of talking about weapon-technology

 

you made my day, dude.

Beanz !

I prefer Maple-Bacon, thanks : P

[pilgrim* 3514]

I prefer Maple-Bacon, thanks : P

 

1 Plate of Maple Bacon Donuts fo' this gentleman, Dawn..

 

( ""..carry around in a bag and eat in the car."". )

Edited June 23, 2014 by pilgrim

[BadAsh (DayZ) 1513]

It is certainly a game with a steep learning curve. When I started playing it back in December I died countless times before even getting a gun of any sort. But that being said, once you have taken that steep step, I found the game to be relatively easy (the survival part, the more important part, interaction with other players, never gets easy).

 

I can gear up in a couple of hours as a freshspawn and even when freshly spawned zombies are no problem anymore, because with a bit of experience you can kick their asses easily with your fists. I don't think that this steep learning curve should be lowered. It may scare off a few players now and then, but to be honest if it does, it is ample evidence that it is not players meant for this sort of game anyway. Patience is probably the most important skill to have in this game, and that applies to beginners as well as experienced players.

[gibonez 3633]

Dayz should never take any consideration on how difficult or accessible it is.

If players are saying it is too hard it is doing something right.

[Agrefits 70]

enjoy the time while its all hard and new.. you'll miss those times soon enough ;)

[Pvt_Larry (DayZ) 98]

I used to think it was too difficult, than I learned to Rocky Balboa my way out of danger. You'll find a fire extinguisher soon enough.

 

 

The only thing that really frustrates me in this regard is actually trying to meet up with friends, but i won't go into that here because it's off topic and I'll just get a face full of "noob" comments.

[5p4rtan (DayZ) 35]

 

1) Gear should be more rare. This also means the timeline should be pushed forward a couple of months since "the Apocalypse"

 

Actually, the setting of the game is 10 years after the first Zombie outbreak.

[gerbilschooler 229]

I assure you, if your friends stick with it, they'll be longing for the days when they had no clue what the fuck was going on and they were running from house to house like a chicken amped up on adrenaline with it's head and dick chopped off... Oh, those were the days... ahhh

[blunce 991]

enjoy the time while its all hard and new.. you'll miss those times soon enough ;)

I should have said this to my ex-girlfriend

[qww 287]

if only i could go back to my 1st hours of sa, the confusion was fun

[jukaga 271]

if only i could go back to my 1st hours of sa, the confusion was fun

Nothing like the first days of the mod, that was pure chaos. And people played at night. :D

[qww 287]

Nothing like the first days of the mod, that was pure chaos. And people played at night. :D

yeah i was there for that too, i just prefer sa, although it was chaos yeah, 2 road flares and hand pistol, always night. when i was on that, navigating north by the sound of splashing in the sea haha. i did lose interest in mod tho, i jus came back when standalone was released, was amazing going in all the buildings for the 1st time, and the crazy zombies