Why we should embrace "R" to chamber. [Take your time to read please.]

[Pliskinki 52]

      Hello guys how are you doing today?
      Well, I started a discussion on Reddit that doesn't got much attention. But I'm pretty sure it has lot of common sense and I really wanted my little opinion to be seen. So I'll let this thread here and organize it better than at Reddit.

 

      First of all I think we should be able to chamber one bullet to our guns just by pressing "R" or "T"  when we are out of mags.

      Now I will tell you guys my reasons on this and some counter-argues against some common things people say against this idea.

 

Actually we just have to load up the mags to do our normal "R" to reload. And that's okay.

We don't need to open up our inventory and "Eject" the magazine that is inside the weapon.

 

And in the other hand, to chamber one bullet. You will need to open your inventory at every bullet fired.

 

•For those who says that this thing about opening up your inventory is about reality and those about keeping calm so you can reload.

      Thinking this way, why don't you have to «Eject» your empty magazine so you can drag and reload your gun with a loaded one?? The system easily eject the magazine for you. Where is the "reality" in this?

 

— So with this in mind, I think we should be able to chamber «one single bullet» by pressing an assigned button to «Chamber» since we have weapons like Mosin and SKS that doesn't need a magazine. Or block the "R" key function for sake of "reality".

 

      Ok this is it. Thanks for reading and taking your time, sorry for the grammar errors, and it's okay if you think the whole thing is crap. if you want to check out the reddit discussion. Click Here

Edited June 17, 2014 by Le_yakitoid

[fowang 60]

Naw don't want "R" reload option :)

 

Works just fine as it is!

 

Edit

 

Reason is because I don't want a COD style game I've had my fill of them, Id rather prepare before going into action making sure I have the correct ammo/mags and knowing how much I have also.

 

The key bind reload would remove this making it more of an COD/BF style game which this is not!

 

In reality you would need to check your pockets/bags before reloading so it makes sense to use the inventory system to do so when dealing with loose ammo.

Edited June 17, 2014 by fowang

[Very Ape 748]

I believe if you have ammo or magazines in a readily accessible place (ie, in the front pocket of an assault vest), you should be able to press R.

 

Players who carefully plan out how their gear is organized should be rewarded. Players with ammo in their backpacks should have to open their backpacks to retrieve it. 

[byrgesen 1340]

Naah, there should be a very significant benefit to finding magazines and clips, and the way it works now, is a perfect solution IMHO :)

As long as you dont have a magazine or clip, you are severely "handicapped" and gets punished for it, i find this very fitting.

[rotteck 104]

i wouldnt even be upset if the "r" reload gets removed, but you could do many cool things with it, like, by tapping the button, old mag will fall on the ground and new gets loaded, and long tap (also slightly longer animation) will replace old mag in inventory

 

i dont want to be able to chamber rounds by pressing r.

thats the disadvantage of those guns, so deal with it :D

[Jex 1104]

There's no decent argument against the OP's idea and it makes sense.

[amiasfree 262]

I agree, I want this bad. Doesn't make any sense not to be able to chamber by pressing 'r' when we can reload with snaploaders and mags by pressing r. The only downside I see is it making snaploaders/clips/speedloaders irrelevant, but that could be easily fixed by letting the snaploaders decrease reload time by half compared to reloaded loose ammo (which is what they are for in reality, right?). That, and as someone said, it should be limited to loose ammo in shirt and pants pockets.

Edited June 17, 2014 by Amias Free

[rotteck 104]

but how should the game know, from which stack of ammo, it should take it, and will it ignore ammo in their boxes ?

and again, i think the biggest and best argument against it is that its supposed to be a disadvantage when using guns that need the rounds chambered

[Nesuma (DayZ) 108]

Well, I would rather remove the "r" function at all and the only benefit of snaploaders should be a shorter reload time, makes sense, does it?

 

There's no decent argument against the OP's idea and it makes sense.

This is your opinion, in my opinion the argument that the "r" button makes it too easy, fast and causal is very decent.

[amiasfree 262]

Well, I would rather remove the "r" function at all and the only benefit of snaploaders should be a shorter reload time, makes sense, does it?

 

This is your opinion, in my opinion the argument that the "r" button makes it too easy, fast and causal is very decent.

So you want everything to be manual and only snaploaders allow for a shorter reload time? What about magazines?

 

Also your opinion is not an argument, its just a statement with only your opinion backing it. Why is it too easy? How is it too fast? Indeed... everything that causes an action is 'causal'... not sure where you were going with that.

[Jex 1104]

Well, I would rather remove the "r" function at all and the only benefit of snaploaders should be a shorter reload time, makes sense, does it?

 

This is your opinion, in my opinion the argument that the "r" button makes it too easy, fast and causal is very decent.

 

I'm arguing fact, not opinion. You can take a bullet out of your pocket in real life and chamber a round so it can be done in game and there's NO argument to be made that it can't be done. At what point would it be "fast" and like the OP said, why not then make it so you have to grab magazines from your inventory as well?

[Jex 1104]

but how should the game know, from which stack of ammo, it should take it, and will it ignore ammo in their boxes ?

and again, i think the biggest and best argument against it is that its supposed to be a disadvantage when using guns that need the rounds chambered

 

It would have to take ammo from your vest or pockets only and only loose rounds too. It doesn't really matter which pile it comes from either. The disadvantage is you only have one round - what more do you need?

[OrLoK 16182]

We need to be able to operate weapons like this..

 

 

Rgds

 

LoK

[Pliskinki 52]

In reality you would need to check your pockets/bags before reloading so it makes sense to use the inventory system to do so when dealing with loose ammo.

 

In reality you would need to "check your pockets" even if you had fully loaded magazines to your guns. There is no "Press R to Reload" when you have magazine to your weapon in real life. Do you remember Tuco, on Breaking Bad series? He died because he panicked to fill his M4 with the magazine he had.

 

I believe if you have ammo or magazines in a readily accessible place (ie, in the front pocket of an assault vest), you should be able to press R.

 

Players who carefully plan out how their gear is organized should be rewarded. Players with ammo in their backpacks should have to open their backpacks to retrieve it. 

 

This is it. If you are organized, then you  could press "R" even for chambering bullets.

 

As long as you dont have a magazine or clip, you are severely "handicapped" and gets punished for it, i find this very fitting.

 

Punishment for not having found a magazine? Why? I've found a weapon, isn't this a good thing? Why punish the weapon user even more than just being able to shot one bullet every 2 secs since he have to chamber pressing a single button every time?

 

Thanks to @Jexter since he completely understood what I was trying to say here.

[Element47 2480]

Naw don't want "R" reload option :)

 

Works just fine as it is!

 

Edit

 

Reason is because I don't want a COD style game I've had my fill of them, Id rather prepare before going into action making sure I have the correct ammo/mags and knowing how much I have also.

 

The key bind reload would remove this making it more of an COD/BF style game which this is not!

 

In reality you would need to check your pockets/bags before reloading so it makes sense to use the inventory system to do so when dealing with loose ammo.

 

so because CoD and BF (and about every other game) uses ESC to access the menu, we should conciously ignore this design pattern and make opening the menu especially clunky, with the purpose of differentiating this game from all the other "easy mode", "arcade" games? bullshit.

 

binding a key to a certain action is an interface decision, it is a question of usability, not of gameplay. if chambering a single round is a gameplay action used regularly by players, it makes perfect sense to offer a keybind for it. and it should be up to the player to decide, to which key he wants this action bound to. As a medic, i can have a bandage in my quickbar and ready it with one keypress, its not unreasonable from a combat-oriented player to be able to initiate a "chamber one bullet" action with one keypress.

 

How long such an action would take, what it would mean in terms of gameplay, thats a matter of implementation and balance. but bad usability and UX design does not equal realism.

[liquidsnake 275]

Ejecting a case from the chamber takes a lot more time. A mag is released at the press of a button or simply when pulling the mag out, while ejecting a case requires you to do it manually. Reloading a single bullet requires you to put it into the relatively small chamber, push it into the barrel and cocking the gun. Reloading a mag is just putting it into the gun. Not only is chambering a gun way slower, you can't do it blindly, like with a mag. You HAVE to look at the gun to succesfully chamber it.

 

Keep it like it is now

[Pliskinki 52]

Ejecting a case from the chamber takes a lot more time. A mag is released at the press of a button or simply when pulling the mag out, while ejecting a case requires you to do it manually. Reloading a single bullet requires you to put it into the relatively small chamber, push it into the barrel and cocking the gun. Reloading a mag is just putting it into the gun. Not only is chambering a gun way slower, you can't do it blindly, like with a mag. You HAVE to look at the gun to succesfully chamber it.

 

Keep it like it is now

 

Even so... Didn't you would need to "grab" the mag to "put it into your inventory", or in the case of pressing the button the mag wont just "fall" resulting on a empty magazine at the floor? In a way or another you would need to look at your gun.

Remember: DayZ's character is probably a civilian, you don't have any military training so you can, without taking time to look at your gun reload it with the mag.

[Rigor Mortis (DayZ) 141]

For those who say there should be a 'significant benefit' to having magazines... I say the benefit is you don't have to reload after every shot.

 

For the individual who used Breaking Bad as a reference for realistic weapon usage... using a TV drama as evidence of real world combat scenarios makes my brain hurt.

 

The one suggestion I haven't seen on here is to make a single bullet loading animation.  People are right that it takes a little longer to load a single round into a weapon, but there's no reason to require opening your backpack to do it every time.  I think you should even be able to keep a handful of ammo (# depending on type) and reload quicker from that than say ammo in one of your pockets.

 

So, to summarize:

 

 

Custom animations

- Loading single rounds from a pocket (character reaches into pocket, grabs round, opens bolt (if necessary) and loads a round in, closes bolt, ready to fire.

- Loading single rounds from a handful of rounds you already have (character opens bolt (if necessary) and loads a round in, closes bolt, ready to fire.

- Loading a revolver - press 'r' to start reload process, opens cylinder and holds it open, if rounds in hand, loads a round.  If rounds in pocket, grabs rounds from pocket and loads a round. With cylinder open - each press of 'r' puts another round in - left clicking or putting last round in closes cylinder, ready to fire.

 

On this same note, I think your left hand should have a single inventory slot separate from the hand holding your weapon... people can hold ammo, mags, flashlights, batteries... whatever AND properly handle a rifle.

[liquidsnake 275]

Even so... Didn't you would need to "grab" the mag to "put it into your inventory", or in the case of pressing the button the mag wont just "fall" resulting on a empty magazine at the floor? In a way or another you would need to look at your gun.

Remember: DayZ's character is probably a civilian, you don't have any military training so you can, without taking time to look at your gun reload it with the mag.

Are you saying you can't grab a mag and put it in your pocket without looking at it? Everyone can. On the other side, putting a small object into a hole of about the same size, ALWAYS requires you to look. It's like putting a battery into something, you always look.

[Rigor Mortis (DayZ) 141]

Are you saying you can't grab a mag and put it in your pocket without looking at it? Everyone can. On the other side, putting a small object into a hole of about the same size, ALWAYS requires you to look. It's like putting a battery into something, you always look.

 

I agree that anyone can grab a mag, but you need to look at it to determine which end has the bullets and which direction they are going unless you are trained well (and I've even seen trained soldiers f this one up.)

 

I disagree about putting a single round in... I used single shot rifles for many years and it was rather easy for me to reach in my pocket while talking to a friend, open the bolt, and drop a round in without looking.  Why?  I could feel which end of the bullet was which easily (they do have a rather unique shape) and the chamber of my weapon never changed shape... it's super easy after just a few rounds fired.  Now, doing the same with semi-automatic weapons can be tricky -- for example, with my Springfield XD .40 I have to aim the weapon down and carefully drop the round in or sometimes it doesn't align properly and falls out or (worse) gets jammed -- although I'm sure if I loaded my weapon that way regularly it would become easy.

[Element47 2480]

You HAVE to look at the gun to succesfully chamber it.

 

 

 

Which is an argument in favor of a proper chambering animation which brings the gun into your focus. Not against a keybind that triggers such.

[byrgesen 1340]

Punishment for not having found a magazine? Why? I've found a weapon, isn't this a good thing? Why punish the weapon user even more than just being able to shot one bullet every 2 secs since he have to chamber pressing a single button every time?

 

Because a weapon is almost worthless without a magazine or clip, unless it already is a single shot weapon, which had manual round loading in mind when it was designed tbh.

Sure you can chamber one round manually, but the system we have now simulates this very well, its time consuming and a giant hassle.

 

I find it satisfying, the way it is and it find it awsome that a magazine brings such an advantage to the player.

If all you had to do was spam R to reload, magazines/clips would drasticly decrease in value, especially in weapons such as the mosin.

 

Theres absolutely no reason to make it "easier" to reload weapons.

 

EDIT:

Thought abit more.

The only acceptable change, using the R key to reload single rounds, is to do it this way:

 

It takes 7-10 seconds, you cant move at all and it plays an animation, which "locks" your free-look, simulating your full concentration to chamber the bullet.

Edited June 17, 2014 by Byrgesen

[liquidsnake 275]

Which is an argument in favor of a proper chambering animation which brings the gun into your focus. Not against a keybind that triggers such.

No, it's an argument for a system which simulates the player being pre-occupied with reloading. We have that now.

 

@Rigor Mortis     As long as you don't store your mags in a random manner, but instead all with the opening up, you're just fine. Since putting a mag in backwards is a lot dumber than putting a single round in backwards, you've said enough on that regard. You were talking about one shot rifles, which are a lot easier to chamber (because they're made for that), so it doesn't apply to anything else. I do agree that single shot rifles should be reloading easier, though. Maybe pressing R twice would load the shotgun (two separate shorter loading anims for one round, together taking up a bit more time than the speed loader's anim)? And the Longhorn could simply reload by R.

[-Gews- 7443]

Here's my thoughts:

If you can press "R" to reload a magazine, stripper clip or speed loader, then you should be able to press "R" to reload a single bullet. It just makes sense. If not then you shouldn't be able to do so for magazines either. Ease of chambering should depend on the weapon but for something like the double-barrel, Magnum or Blazer, the fact you need "speed loaders" to be able to reload without going into your inventory is super silly.

[liquidsnake 275]

Here's my thoughts:

If you can press "R" to reload a magazine, stripper clip or speed loader, then you should be able to press "R" to reload a single bullet. It just makes sense. If not then you shouldn't be able to do so for magazines either. Ease of chambering should depend on the weapon but for something like the double-barrel, Magnum or Blazer, the fact you need "speed loaders" to be able to reload without going into your inventory is super silly.

For weapons like the double barrel I'd support a different anim triggered by R, which is slightly longer than that of the speedloader. After all, those weapons are made to be reloaded like that. The rest of the weapons seem fine as is