Removing spawns is making this game bad

[Bororm 1156]

What incentives would that be?, if it would work then Im all in...Anything that really prevent server hopping is a good idea :)

 

Stuff that encourages you to stick to one server.  Base building, vehicles, loot respawning etc.  Those should all help, though not solve it completely of course, but it will help.  A major "legitimate" reason people hop right now is because night time sorta sucks, so making that experience more fun/interesting would be helpful as well.  These are all things they're already working on.  I'm sure other ideas in a similar vein could be thought up though.

 

I just think any further penalties should pretty much be a last resort.  You did mention waiting till beta at least, so hopefully most of this stuff is in by then.  If it's still a huge problem and they've exhausted alternatives I suppose then it could be a good idea.  I just know that it's not always black in white in issues like this, so when innocent players end up being penalized it just sorta sucks for everyone =/

[Grimey Rick 3417]

ITT:

 

So much dumb-dumb.

 

- - - - -

 

Current state of DayZ:

 

• Select empty server
• Get a Berezino (or surrounding area) spawn. If not, suicide
• Loot Berezino
• Loot NEAF
• Loot Chernaya Polana
• Leave server
• Select empty server
• Loot Chernaya Polana
• Loot NEAF
• Leave server
• Repeat process until geared
• PVP

EDIT: Removed excessive profanity because community of children.

Edited June 16, 2014 by Grimey Rick

[gibonez 3633]

 

The map isn't actually that big, throwing spawns around randomly still just means people will suicide for a closer spawn to whatever the hotspot might be, say NWAF balota whatever.  If I spawn in the east, but the best loot/majority of the action is in the west, I'm going to suicide regardless till I get closest to it.  This greatly negates travel and map flow.  Suicide isn't difficult, it's a matter of just finding a zombie or something to jump of

 

You know statistically how unlikely it would be to get a spawn you want with a completely random spawn system right ? If they randomize the spawn system in such a way that every square inch of the map that is not a building is a potential spawn point there would literally be hundreds of thousands of potential spawn locations. Even if you managed to suicide 30 times statistically the chances of you finding a spawn location close to your desired one would still be far too great.

 

 

We don't know what base building will be like, but when it's implemented, having people randomly spawn within the vicinity of your base/tent/whatever is detrimental to the game.  It was already near impossible to hide a legitimate tent in the mod, this will just make it even easier to find people's shit.  It doesn't matter if they're a fresh spawn, they've just discovered the location of your stuff by complete chance, they didn't have to put any effort into it and can come back easily.  Same with vehicles, if you try to hide a vehicle and some guy just ends up spawning next to it he's just gotten a free ride for no effort.

 

This is actually a relatively valid grievance. I can see how this could be a potential problem but once again the likelyhood of someone spawning right on or near your base with a totally random spawn system is far too unlikely to consider.

 

 

 

Fights will be interrupted by people just spawning in "on top" of them.  You can't feasibly implement a system that will spawn players far enough away from each other because again, the map isn't actually that big.  You will spawn and hear fights even if you spawn 500m away or whatever.

 

Once again think of the maps size and how unlikely this is to happen ever in your total gameplay time. Will this happen to a few people across all servers sure perhaps but overall would not be a problem.

 

 

 

It will make grouping up even more of a pain in the ass.  It shouldn't be super easy to group up, but it shouldn't take the majority of your play time to do so.  Not everyone plays this game lone wolf.

 

 

Not a valid concern, everything and anything should be a pain in the ass . Grouping included.  None of the games decisions should be made to make group play any easier than it already is.

 

 

 

It just adds nothing significant.  The current spawn system is actually fine.  People who know the map, eventually know all of it.  Any sense of disorientation will be lost quickly.  You can't and more importantly shouldn't force people to explore.  Assuming people don't just suicide to hot spots (let's be real, they're going to), you've got the opposite problem where everyone is so spread out that the game becomes super boring.

 

That is where you are very wrong. It adds something this game sorely lacks it adds random events and a sense of danger at every square in of the map.

No longer would you have to rely on coastal locations to encounter a player it can happen and will happen anywhere on the map.

 

Sure some people will attempt to suicide to hot spots but lets be honest how much longer will this process take ? how fast could you suicide when you spawn in the middle of a Forrest or in a cornfield with nothing to kill you or jump off from. Eventually people will realize how much of a waste of time suicide for better map position is and will just accept their spawn and try to find their way.

 

 

Overall it just kills any meaningful map flow.  The idea is to create points of interest and traffic, not randomly drop people at their destinations.  It's like creating a maze and then dropping mice randomly through out it, some end up closer to the "goal" arbitrarily.  How is that a good idea?

 

There does not need to be any sort of map flow this is not a small map where map control and map flow are important. This is a sandbox game with a huge map  a map where 90 percent of the map is wasted due to players not traversing the map in a more realistic and fluid manner. The maze analogy does not work because there is no set paths in the map its a wide open map.

There is no goal and with a dynamic spawn system people would flow the map more naturally. A great idea.

 

 

Above all else though, the game is so incredibly incomplete right now that it's completely pointless to even touch spawns.

 

 

I agree right now it is.

 

The best way spawns could be used at the moment is to nudge players into areas of the map the devs want tested. Create a new town up north then remove old spawns and push people towards spawns closer to the new towns.

 

However the end game should be a procedural and random spawn system this would encourage people to traverse the map in a fluid way something that does not hurt the game but empowers it and bolsters its survival aspects.

 

Doing anything other than that just encourages the game to continue to be a team base pvp game where people deathmatch on the coast.

[Kaboki 62]

 A major "legitimate" reason people hop right now is because night time sorta sucks, so making that experience more fun/interesting would be helpful as well.

 

I don't see it as legitimate reason at all to server hop because you hardly find any server out there that runs nightime. I think the Arma engines are the best out there when it comes to nightime, all other games seem to display night as having some magic invisible night vision googles where in Arma engines it's dark, as it's suppose to be. Dayz at night is so much more fun and scary and creepy than during day, just turning on the flashlight can be scary as hell.

 

Had an incident one day where I was in a forest in the middle of fucking nowhere and I tought it would be safe to turn on the flashlight, all the sudden I hear a creepy scream and I turn in the direction the screaming comes from, then I see this mad axe killer coming running towards me, I instantly turned the flashlight off and run like hell with my pulse in the hundreds, almost shit my pance..luckily i got away(whoever that was, thanks, you made my day)

 

The night is what makes Dayz shine in my eyes, lurking around in the dark looking for loot being more on the edge than usual because I can't see much is just awsome, I even turn the gamma settings down to even make it more dark. I love to start out as bambi at night just for the extra challenge. I would say force more people into the darkness by having ALL servers have booth day and night cycles, because now it's really hard to find night servers with people on. It's so rewarding when I see the sun come up again and I feel relived that I survived yet another night in the apocalypse.

 

Everyone that only play day only, miss out half of the game, having a campfires in the darkness is also fantastic with the nice light effects in this game(will even be better with the new DX10/11 renderer), it also makes zombies more challenging if one doesn't have a head torch. And also then you would have to always look for batteries and other light sources just to be prepared for the night. Day only players can just throw away their flashlight and save inventory space for more ammo to use in their next KOS fest...

Edited June 16, 2014 by Kaboki

[Bororm 1156]

My main issue with night is I don't adjust my gamma either, but a lot of people do.  Since the current state of the game, for me at least, is pvp that gives them quite an advantage over me that I can't counter to any significant degree legitimately.  The options for lighting right now are pretty limited so I just don't find it very fun.  That and the day/night cycle is really long, and I don't want to play night for like 12 hours.  Don't get me wrong, I know they're pretty shitty excuses but I'm just saying that once I have a reason to stick to a server and there's more options like flares, camp fires (already on experimental), chemlights and that sort of thing I'd be more inclined to play it.

 

That's why I put "legitimate" in quotations =P

[Bororm 1156]

Gibonez the map is not as big as you think it is, familiarize yourself with it more.

 

The majority of my points that you say are invalid are because you believe the map is big enough to support that, it's not.  With 100-150 players (their target goal) the chances of randomly spawning near another player and things like camps etc is going to be extremely high.

 

The point is also not that you will spawn exactly on a place like the nwaf, the point is that if I spawn in the east and kill myself my chances of spawning some where in the west is still significantly high.  Why am I going to take a berezino spawn when I can feasibly end up any where on the west side of the map, and closer to the airfields?  Will it mean people have to travel a little bit farther from their spawn?  Sure, slightly, but there's no guarantee and actually the opposite is true that you will increase travel per player in any significant manner.

 

Think about it, currently everyone spawns on the east.  Once theres a reason to go west, EVERYONE will have to make that journey if they want the rewards for doing so.  If you create spawns every where, there and between, you've just created a huge chance of spawning even a tiny bit closer than would be possible otherwise.  With the amount of people playing and respawning, you are going to see these scenarios happen and they are going to happen a lot.  If the possibility for something exists, and it's allowed to happen long enough, it will happen.

 

As long as some places on the map hold greater value than others, map flow IS important.  It doesn't matter how big the map is, and that it's a sandbox.  It's a matter of balance.

The map is a maze, if only figuratively.  There's avenues of travel with places of interest.  Different routes develop, and there absolutely are goals.  The problem currently is that the goals hardly exist.

 

We already have a working model of this in the mod.  You travelled south to north and back.  This is their stated goal, except now east to west.  I don't see what the issue is, it's just not complete yet.  There will be plenty of traffic.

It's carrot on a stick.  You create incentive.  If you have a horse you want to move, you don't just pick it up and place it further down the track.

Edited June 16, 2014 by Bororm

[gibonez 3633]

It's carrot on a stick.  You create incentive.  If you have a horse you want to move, you don't just fucking pick it up and place it further down the track.

The incentive is to explore the map by will or force due to the situation you are put upon when spawning.

 

 

The majority of my points that you say are invalid are because you believe the map is big enough to support that, it's not.  With 100-150 players (their target goal) the chances of randomly spawning near another player and things like camps etc is going to be extremely high.

 

 

This would be true if people were constantly dying and moving about and this is assuming the map size stays the same. The map is an evolving environment one that is constantly increasing in size the map is big enough for a dynamic spawn system especially at those 100 player counts you suggested.

 

 

The point is also not that you will spawn exactly on a place like the nwaf, the point is that if I spawn in the east and kill myself my chances of spawning some where in the west is still significantly high.  Why am I going to take a berezino spawn when I can feasibly end up any where on the west side of the map, and closer to the airfields?  Will it mean people have to travel a little bit farther from their spawn?  Sure, slightly, but there's no guarantee and actually the opposite is true that you will increase travel per player in any significant manner.

 

You under estimate the number of potential spawns that would come from a procedural system and how big the map is. You could theoretically suicide 50 times and still randomly spawn within 1 mile in the east this is how random such a spawn system would be.

 

Having the spawn system be random would even eliminate the though of killing your in game character for the chance to find a better spawn such a thing would not even be time efficient anymore.

 

#1. I traveled 10 minutes to find out I am at berenzino do I kill myself for the potential 1 percent chance I spawn on the west ? and then if I do spend another 10 minutes orientating myself and finding my bearings ? or do I just tough up my spawn and muster supplies and equipment now that I know my location ?

 

 

Think about it, currently everyone spawns on the east.  Once theres a reason to go west, EVERYONE will have to make that journey if they want the rewards for doing so.  If you create spawns every where, there and between, you've just created a huge chance of spawning even a tiny bit closer than would be possible otherwise.  With the amount of people playing and respawning, you are going to see these scenarios happen and they are going to happen a lot.  If the possibility for something exists, and it's allowed to happen long enough, it will happen.

 

Don't follow you here can you rephrase for me if you can .

 

 

As long as some places on the map hold greater value than others, map flow IS important.  It doesn't matter how big the map is, and that it's a sandbox.  It's a matter of balance.

The map is a maze, if only figuratively.  There's avenues of travel with places of interest.  Different routes develop, and there absolutely are goals.  The problem currently is that the goals hardly exist.

 

 

I suppose map flow could be seen as important in a huge map too and there was map flow in the mod as well. I fail to see how spawning people on the coast helps with this map flow as it literally spawns everyone exactly where their final destination tends to be anyway. This does not promote map flow but does the opposite it bunches people up to predictable spawn locations.

 

Keep the static spawns in Berenzino and 90 percent of the maps players are in berenzino pvping.

Move it to Novy sobor and 90 percent of players will be there next.

 

Such is the beast with static spawns keeping it fluid and random would map it impossible to have such situations and player distribution in game.

Even with goals such as base building and homesteading , player flow will remain mostly the same and heavily dependent on the static spawns.

 

 

 

We already have a working model of this in the mod.  You travelled south to north and back.  This is their stated goal, except now east to west.  I don't see what the issue is, it's just not complete yet.  There will be plenty of traffic.

 

Even the mod suffered from the same laments as the game.

 

Sure few people traveled north but you must admit the grand majority of players stuck to Cherno, electro and the North West Airfield. This happened even with the diverse spawn locations the mod had. This will happen so long as static spawns remain and thus 90 percent of the map will be ignored.

 

 

I must ask what of the benefits a dynamic spawn system would present ?

 

what of the

 

• Reduced server strain due to slower rate of player suicide
• Inability or extreme unlikeliness for a player to die and then run straight to his body to recover it
• The potential for bodies and corpses to stay on the ground longer due to the reduced server strain
• More dynamic and random player interactions whether they be friendly or hostile having that sense of danger when you enter berenzino or the north west airfield all over the map would be far more tense than it is currently.

[Kaboki 62]

My main issue with night is I don't adjust my gamma either, but a lot of people do.  

 

 

In the mod alot of people had night vision googles, just 'pretend' that it's already implemented in SA(because it will sooner or later). That way it's just as it always has been, there was always someone that could see you in the mod too. And it's exagerrated how many cheat with gamma, I have yet to stumble upon anyone who sees me at night as long as I keep my flashlight off(and I almost exclusivly play at night when I can find nightservers that is populated)....and if you want 'night vision googles too', just turn up gamma, simple as that. Really, so no it's not legit to server jump because of the night, heck most servers runs 'day only pussy mode' anyway...

 

 

 The options for lighting right now are pretty limited so I just don't find it very fun.

 

 

 

There are plenty of options, flashlight, headtorch, flares, campfires, gas cans that has lights....what more options do you want? Only things missing as I see are generators with electrical lightning and the head lights of cars..

 

Lol, I feel like the ambassadour of the darkness because I feel pretty lonely out there, and I keep bringing it up everytime someone mentions night, almost no one plays at night on hardcore servers. It's rare, sometimes there are and the best dayz SA moments I have had has been at nightime on populated servers.

Edited June 16, 2014 by Kaboki

[Etherimp 1323]

I find it impossible to comprehend the depths of cluelessness required to make such a bone-headed post.

Essentially you're asking the devs to make everyone spawn away from Berezino so you can loot it in peace. Are you for real?

 

 

That's not at all what he said. Please come back when you have a fundamental grasp of reading comprehension and the language you're reading. You either completely twisted his words (malicious), or you lack said reading comprehension. Which is it.. Are you attempting to intentionally fuel an argument, or are you just dense? 

[rickyriot 1009]

Can't remember which servers it was but there was a few of them running the mod that had you parachute in at a random place. Nice idea. It breaks the logic of you being washed up on the shore with nothing of course, but still it added a certain amount of control over where exactly you started. Of course if you did parachute in you should realistically start with rope and bandages (made from the left over parachute when you landed).

[AlphaDogMeat . 493]

That's not at all what he said. 

 

Yeah, it pretty much is.

 

The incentive to loot and survive is not there when the only places you can spawn at have completely no loot and the player is forced to walk 3 - 6 kilometers to get gear.

 

 

He's whinging about having no incentive to survive and search for loot because of having to travel whilst surviving and searching for loot.  So his bone-headed solution is to have everyone spawn "randomly" next to a town full of loot.

 

Still, I do like your whiny posts blubbering about FrankieOnPC, BTW.  Your tears taste of beans.  :beans:

[Bororm 1156]

Sorry Gibonez I'm just tired of the conversation already.  You're approaching a current problem that is only a problem because the game is incomplete.  Again, we have the mod as an example that it works fine to have players spawn on one side of the map and move to the other for end game loot, creating nice traffic flows.  The only reason this isn't happening currently on the same scale (it arguably is happening to a very limited extent, some players do still go west) is because there's no incentive for most people.  Once that incentive is created, the problem you're trying to address will no longer be relevant.

 

I'm done with the topic as I doubt we'll ever agree.

[gibonez 3633]

Can't remember which servers it was but there was a few of them running the mod that had you parachute in at a random place. Nice idea. It breaks the logic of you being washed up on the shore with nothing of course, but still it added a certain amount of control over where exactly you started. Of course if you did parachute in you should realistically start with rope and bandages (made from the left over parachute when you landed).

 

Well that is one way to prevent spawn ghosting behind players.

 

If they miss the giant parachute and player falling from the sky they probably deserve to die.

[pilgrim* 3514]

..//..

the player is forced to walk 3 - 6 kilometers to get gear

..//..

 

OMG !

that 'surviving an apocalypse' stuff is really HELL aint it?...

[Etherimp 1323]

Yeah, it pretty much is.

 

 

He's whinging about having no incentive to survive and search for loot because of having to travel whilst surviving and searching for loot.  So his bone-headed solution is to have everyone spawn "randomly" next to a town full of loot.

 

 

 

So on a 225 sq km map you think we should all just spawn in and around Berezino like it is now, is that what you're saying?

*I* personally do not believe spawns should be random.. But I do think they should be spread out along the coast from Kamenka -> Komorova -> Balota -> Factory -> Cherno -> Pik Kozlovo -> Elektro -> Kamyshovo -> Three Valleys -> Solnichney -> Niznoye -> Berezino -> Rify -> Svet 

 

All told, the game could have 15-20 different spawns spread across the coastline and it would solve the Berezino deathmatch as it is now.. While right now there's 100% chance Berezino is going to be occupied, with 20 spawns spread along the coast, any given near-by town is about 50-75% likely to be occupied.

 

 

Edit: 1k posts. Wee.. I'm a nerd.

Edited June 16, 2014 by Etherimp

[rickyriot 1009]

Well that is one way to prevent spawn ghosting behind players.

 

If they miss the giant parachute and player falling from the sky they probably deserve to die.

 

Death from above, it's the last place you'd expect it. ;)

 

If I remember the parachute made a rippling noise so that would at least notify the guy on the ground of the incoming. It was a bit of a red flag to everyone else though as if you are fresh spawn hunting you just needed to look out for parachutes and of course you are a bit of a sitting duck floating gently in the air.

[Chaingunfighter 917]

How so I am actually interested in how a more fluid and dynamic spawn system could have adverse effects on the game ?

How would they properly implement such a system? "Fully-random" wouldn't be possible, because you'd have many instances of people spawning inside trees, rocks, buildings, and other static objects, and way out in the middle of the ocean. They could set "exclusion zones" in specific areas where spawning was inside of objects & away from high value loot spawns, but then you have to ask; how far away from major loot spawns should they go? I mean, the current spawns are very far from most major areas and you've still got Berezino and the NEAF in close proximity, with Elektro not too far away either. Running from the areas you're in now to places like the NWAF is relatively simple and doesn't take a lot of time, so moving the spawns further inland would only shorten that time.

And what's to stop someone from repeatedly committing suicide until they spawn somewhere near a high-value loot spawn? You'd either have to make it a permadeath of sorts (not actually permanent but for a limited period of time) or have people consistently spawn in the same location for a set amount of time, which itself comes with problems; people spawncamping you as you respawn, and people also getting their gear back incredibly quickly.

 

They could properly implement it but it would be almost no different than it is now, only to the point of the specific spawn positions being undefined.

 

The spawns definitely need some improvement, though. They should probably push them a bit further than they are now.

[Munson_fry (DayZ) 312]

Jesus people, there is no game.  It's incomplete by a very large margin.  This forum is full of bitching and whining about how this game, which is in alpha, is broken.  Well no shit Sherlock.  Instead of playing the game, test it, report the issues and don't bitch about them.  It's not a hard concept.  If all you want to do is play, then don't complain about the issues.

 

Spawn locations are going to keep changing probably all the way up to release and even by then, will change again.  The only feature that we have in DayZ right now is pvp so ya, get used to it because once they decide to implement surviving, you're fun little easy pvp is going to get much harder as you slowly starve to death wishing you had a nice can of beans instead of a 1000 rounds of ammunition.

untill then i go with the 1000 rounds and a pack of crunchys !  :P

[AlphaDogMeat . 493]

So on a 225 sq km map you think we should all just spawn in and around Berezino like it is now, is that what you're saying?

 

I'm saying that right now, here in alphaland, you spawn where the devs decide you spawn and you deal with it.  With the imminent hunting/foraging there will no real excuse not to get away from the coast, so where you spawn will be mostly irrelevant.  

 

Ultimately, the gameplay should be tuned to draw players inland and not hang around coastal hotspots waiting to punch out a geared noobhugger/hunter.

[Etherimp 1323]

I'm saying that right now, here in alphaland, you spawn where the devs decide you spawn and you deal with it.  With the imminent hunting/foraging there will no real excuse not to get away from the coast, so where you spawn will be mostly irrelevant.  

 

Ultimately, the gameplay should be tuned to draw players inland and not hang around coastal hotspots waiting to punch out a geared noobhugger/hunter.

 

 

You didn't answer my question. Nobody is arguing the reality that you spawn where the devs decide you spawn and deal with it. I disagree however that where you spawn is irrelevant.

The game being "tuned to draw players inland" has nothing to do with spawn points and everything to do with where "exclusive" loot is.. IE - Nightvision being only at heli crashes, certain guns only being at barracks, etc.

 

So, you think everyone should just keep spawning around Berezino or not?

[AlphaDogMeat . 493]

So, you think everyone should just keep spawning around Berezino or not?

 

Where you spawn isn't the only irrelevant thing in this thread.

[Etherimp 1323]

Where you spawn isn't the only irrelevant thing in this thread.

 

 

There you go again not answering questions and just avoiding the issue. This is the "discussion forums". Maybe you should look up the definition of discussion.

[victusmortuus 1074]

There is little to no lore atm.

 

Lore and backstory is yet to be created and has a year until it can be done.

 

Tell that to the people on this forum. They always jap on about lore this and lore that.

[krisfx 11]

Jesus people, there is no game.  It's incomplete by a very large margin.  This forum is full of bitching and whining about how this game, which is in alpha, is broken.  Well no shit Sherlock.  Instead of playing the game, test it, report the issues and don't bitch about them.  It's not a hard concept.  If all you want to do is play, then don't complain about the issues.

 

 

This.  I come to read about bugs/changes and anything that may affect my game. All I see is threads openly bitching about being shot/glitches/bugs with very little to no criticism. I personally think these threads make it a lot harder for devs to look at important issues and am surprised at just how many threads the moderators keep alive when they're all just repeats. 

 

 

Imho, the forum system is much like the call of duty one, it's not controlled and therefore leaves the goal wide open for these people to sit and cry about a game they could quite easily not play...

 

 

Captain Obvious sends his regards!

[AlphaDogMeat . 493]

There you go again not answering questions and just avoiding the issue. This is the "discussion forums". Maybe you should look up the definition of discussion.

Your pointless waffling does not qualify as discussion.