Logical suggestion - Remove NVG?

[Areoss 4]

No

Stop with the f'n "please remove NVG" threads ffs. If you want a "fair" or "even" playing field go play COD or join a girls under 14 hockey team.

Socks are going on your ears now.

Anyway to those who claim I am crying that I want NVG to leave the game for good.

You clearly have miss understood my point.

I am asking to try something' date=' this is a suggestions part of the forum is it not? I am suggesting trialing an idea, to see if it helps people move into night time gameplay as well as just day time play.

So far, the majority if people have screamed "No dont remove them! They are awesome! I don't want everything to be more fair! This game isnt about balance, I like the power being in my favour!"

"Rocket says he doesnt want to give advantages to any playstyle" but you also said "I am a fan of them though, because I like the imbalance. "

Isnt the imbalance of night vision, an advantage to snipers on night servers?

Sandy said:

stripped down, the argument OP and his supporters rely on runs thus:

> Nights make for a different, more challenging game.

Different, yes. More Challenging, no.

> In the blind dark the most forbidding opponent is the man who can see

Not the man who can see, the man who can see ALL with out any consiquence.

> That man is scary

It can be.

> He is so scary that my tactical considerations and risk assessments cannot account for his goggles

So, I sense this part is sarcasm, so tell me how you wish to counter a sniper before he has shot at you. See or be seen. Kill or be killed.

> I refuse to adapt and grow my gameplay to contain such a scary man

Lol, no. This is the part where you are getting childish and throwing accusations. This is a suggestion part of the forum. I am suggesting an idea be trialed.

> Therefore Rocket must remove the scary man from my game

Rocket must remove this scary man from my game? Really? How did you get that? My point is to TRIAL no NVG. Not even for that long.

"this is the same logic that spawns PvE-only servers, creates threads demanding all scoped weapons be removed, and will one day reduce DayZ to WoW4Dead"

I believe you spawned this logic of your own... interesting view. I am not claiming they should be out of the game for good. I like the diversity of the play styles. I am merely suggesting something to try out. Clearly since this is an Alpha project, i'd assume that it would be more open minded to testing new things.

Apparently majority of the community are seeing this is a perfect game as it is now and don't want anything changed. Hold tight to your gear and equipment. It may not last for ever with patches and changes ;)

[hr']

How is that Ironic or humorous?? I play totally different at night then I do during the day. I think everyone does. I can cross open spaces' date=' use flares to lure zombies, while avoiding the light myself to not be seen.

This is the Alpha, its for testing. Why not try a week of no NVG to see if it changes things?

If it doesn't, put them back in no harm done. If there's a rise in players playing night time,

people are happy about it, then that's good.

Why are people so against trying something new? Rocket took guns away from spawn, and people bitched about that, but I think it was a good thing and now every has adjusted.

[/quote']

Exactly my point. It appears that some people (and I appreciate everyone has a different point of view) don't want to try without it, not even test it, because they enjoy the easy mode of being able to see as clear as day, at night time. While their opponent cannot.

I'm not saying remove NVG's perminately, im saying try it out. See what happens. Isn't that the point of Alpha testing?

[DevilDog (DayZ) 455]

Is your goal to get rid of NVGs or to make playing at night more rewarding/fun? Because you say you just want more reason to play at night but you only talk about taking away NVGs. How about you/we come up with other ways to make people want to play at night.

-Make certain city areas have random lighting that comes on during the night (some generators must be working right).

-Make loot drops in these areas better than during the day.

-Make zombies more active during the night, so that NVG sniper has other things to consider.

-Increase the blinding effect of NVGs. In real life NVGs can power down when hit with a burst of light (like when firing a 50 cal machine gun the goggles will drown out some light so you don't go blind). Maybe in the game though if you have NVGs on and a bright light comes on near you, or a road flair is thrown in front of you the player can actually go blind for a little bit.

I am sure there are other ideas as well. So instead of trying to take something cool out of the game, lets think of what can be added to the game to make it more fun.

[Areoss 4]

Is your goal to get rid of NVGs or to make playing at night more rewarding/fun? Because you say you just want more reason to play at night but you only talk about taking away NVGs. How about you/we come up with other ways to make people want to play at night.

I don't have a goal to remove them. I am just thinking of the main thing that is preventing people from wanting to explore at night. Aside from not being able to see' date=' it is the people who can clearly see.[/b']

-Make certain city areas have random lighting that comes on during the night (some generators must be working right).

I like this idea, it may be difficult to impliment though. I'm not a games designer so I wouldn't have a clue, but I am assuming it wouldnt be easy. But this is the kinda discussion I would like too. New ideas, rather than instant rejection saying that im "crying"

-Make loot drops in these areas better than during the day.

Another interesting idea, but this would encourage camping wouldn't it. Since people would want to go there for better loot. People would use that as bait. Thus the cycle returns. I'm not criticizing. Im stating out things that I can see that may be a result of this.

-Make zombies more active during the night, so that NVG sniper has other things to consider.

I like this one. Like perhaps make their hearing increase, since it is generally quieter at night. Perhaps increase the zombie spawn rate.

-Increase the blinding effect of NVGs. In real life NVGs can power down when hit with a burst of light (like when firing a 50 cal machine gun the goggles will drown out some light so you don't go blind). Maybe in the game though if you have NVGs on and a bright light comes on near you, or a road flair is thrown in front of you the player can actually go blind for a little bit.

I believe already that if a person with NVG if they look at a flare, it can blind them. But how long the effect lasts for i'm not 100% sure. Flash bangs would be amazing in this kind of scenario I must admit

I am sure there are other ideas as well. So instead of trying to take something cool out of the game, lets think of what can be added to the game to make it more fun.

Agreed. There are some other cool ideas out there too.

I'd like to hear about them to be honest so I encourage anyone who has alternate sensible ideas.

[weedmasta 784]

I can agree that people will rage and kick and scream if you take it from them.

But that was what I was looking for' date=' taking it from them. Not for the reason of making them kick and scream, but to add a new level of gameplay for night time.

Those who have NVG's are more than likely snipers that camp waiting for anyone at night. There are some that aren't but I think it is safe to say that the vast majority are.

I'm more so thinking of increasing the reason to play night time server for those who are at a massive disadvantage.

[/quote']

Have you thought through what you are saying at all?

First of all, that is one hell of an assumption to say that most ppl with NVGs camp and snipe at night.

Second of all, you are saying yourself that night time servers are low population. Which bandit/sniper/camper in their right mind would go to a low population server to snipe/camp some spot when the chance of someone actually turning up near their sights is low to nill.

Thirdly, the NW airfield is not the only place you can acquire NVGs...

I would really like to see all these masses of NVG/night snipers come on here and say something but they won't because in reality there are so few of them that no one really cares.

The reason people don't play on nighttime servers has nothing to do with NVG campers/snipers and it has nothing to do with NVGs itself (well maybe the lack of em). It has all to do with people not being able to see anything and not wanting to be discovered/killed by using flashlights, road flares or chemlights.

Sorry to burst your bubble but there is nothing logical about your suggestions. Although I do like some of the other suggestions people made e.g. NVG being more sensitive to light etc. even though most of those suggestions still won't solve the problem of low pop night servers.

TL;DR NVGs or NVG snipers/campers are not the problem with night time gameplay. Not being able to see anything without NVGs at night is. Removing them won't solve low pop night time servers.

[DevilDog (DayZ) 455]

-Make certain city areas have random lighting that comes on during the night (some generators must be working right).

I like this idea' date=' it may be difficult to impliment though. I'm not a games designer so I wouldn't have a clue, but I am assuming it wouldnt be easy. But this is the kinda discussion I would like too. New ideas, rather than instant rejection saying that im "crying"

-Make loot drops in these areas better than during the day.

Another interesting idea, but this would encourage camping wouldn't it. Since people would want to go there for better loot. People would use that as bait. Thus the cycle returns. I'm not criticizing. Im stating out things that I can see that may be a result of this.

Agreed. There are some other cool ideas out there too.

I'd like to hear about them to be honest so I encourage anyone who has alternate sensible ideas.

[/quote']

Actually if the better loot spawns at night were say in a generator lit up hospital or military area it would not give an advantage to the NVG guys. Then throw some flares and flashbangs (I wish) to drown out the NVGs and make your escape.

The other thing is I have been places at night with a nice bright moon and it was like seeing during a shady day. Maybe just making the night not as dark would be a good idea.

[Areoss 4]

TL;DR NVGs or NVG snipers/campers are not the problem with night time gameplay. Not being able to see anything without NVGs at night is. Removing them won't solve low pop night time servers.

Isn't that what I was pretty much saying? The problem with the night time games is the people who can't see anything. Vs those who can see everything with no consiquence.

If everyone could see at night then the problem would be solved in one way. Which in a sense, is basically playing in the day time.

Another option is reduce everyones ability to see as clear as day to TRY out. But thats apparently out of the question.

[Redshift 58]

The OP has a point that most people seem to be missing, which is odd since it is a point that people throw around like a religious mantra all the time. This is an Alpha, the point of an Alpha is to TEST different scenarios and see what works and what doesnt work.

So why not test the idea out? Though I would suggest doing it a little bit differently. First you test making NVGs more common for a while and allow them to spawn at any military spawn point. Then you see how this effects gameplay and server populations at night for a while.

Then take NVGs out completely and see how this effects gameplay for a while.

Then make a decision based on that TESTED data, instead of just off of current supposition.

I would suggest doing it in this order so that if it is found that having NVGs being moderately common is a very bad thing, you dont have everyone with them left over (since they would all be removed in the next test phase). If neither of these scenarios work well then you can revert to the current rarity of NVGs, but at least you would have better information that says it is the best configuration.

And as a response to "People will rage over having them taken away". Again, this is an Alpha Test. You should be fully prepared to have all of your stuff taken away on a moments notice. Really I find the lack of this happening more often to be confusing, as it does not really track with previous Alpha experience. Heck Ive been in Betas that did more "we are tinkering with this aspect and taking this away for a week" type testing than Day Z does.

[Capercaillie 16]

The OP has a point that most people seem to be missing' date=' which is odd since it is a point that people throw around like a religious mantra all the time. [b']This is an Alpha, the point of an Alpha is to TEST different scenarios and see what works and what doesnt work.

So why not test the idea out? Though I would suggest doing it a little bit differently. First you test making NVGs more common for a while and allow them to spawn at any military spawn point. Then you see how this effects gameplay and server populations at night for a while.

Then take NVGs out completely and see how this effects gameplay for a while.

Then make a decision based on that TESTED data, instead of just off of current supposition.

I would suggest doing it in this order so that if it is found that having NVGs being moderately common is a very bad thing, you dont have everyone with them left over (since they would all be removed in the next test phase). If neither of these scenarios work well then you can revert to the current rarity of NVGs, but at least you would have better information that says it is the best configuration.

And as a response to "People will rage over having them taken away". Again, this is an Alpha Test. You should be fully prepared to have all of your stuff taken away on a moments notice. Really I find the lack of this happening more often to be confusing, as it does not really track with previous Alpha experience. Heck Ive been in Betas that did more "we are tinkering with this aspect and taking this away for a week" type testing than Day Z does.

Great post man, great post. All I can say

[weedmasta 784]

TL;DR NVGs or NVG snipers/campers are not the problem with night time gameplay. Not being able to see anything without NVGs at night is. Removing them won't solve low pop night time servers.

Isn't that what I was pretty much saying? The problem with the night time games is the people who can't see anything. Vs those who can see everything with no consiquence.

If everyone could see at night then the problem would be solved in one way. Which in a sense' date=' is basically playing in the day time.

Another option is reduce everyones ability to see as clear as day to TRY out. But thats apparently out of the question.

[/quote']

No it isn't. What you are saying is that removing NVGs will solve the problem. It won't. The problem is not people who can't see anything vs. people who can see clearly. The problem is most people do not have NVGs/can't see at night. Removing NVGs would just reduce the number of players playing on night time servers so they would be even less populated than they are now.

I am sorry to say but it is not an option to remove NVGs as it won't solve anything.

The reason I do not go on night servers without having an NVG is because I can't see anything. Not because I am worried that one of the 8 ppl on the server might have nvg on them...

Making everyone be able to see at night on the other hand would totally be pointless because as you said it would not be any different than day time and would defeat the whole purpose of day/night cycle really.

I guess increasing the incentive to play at night could work to some extend to increase population on night time servers e.g. better loot spawns; however I do not know if that is at all possible technically for the dev team.

Increasing NVG spawns is also kinda mute since that will defeat the whole purpose of it being an exclusive item like other rare items.

Back to the NVG, seriously how many people actually don't go on a night server just because there might be a person with a NVG on there? That is such a stupid assumption and reason to remove NVGs.

[BL1P 252]

+1 remove NVGs and thermals for a patch or two to see how this affects servers at night.

I would also suggest capping brightness and gamma at 1.0

Because if the moon is out all you need to do is turn up brightness and gamma to max and you can see in the dark.Looks kinda like sin city :)

which would defeat the point of the test. IMO

[-Cdn-Chard 96]

In principle, I have no problem with having NVG in game... Although they completely unbalance the game in favour of the well equipped, they're the pinnacle of loot!

My concern is the proliferation of NVG's created by hackers and dupers. I have no way of knowing how many NVG's are out there, but since only there's only a 1/1000 chance of them spawning in barracks or a 1/250 chance of them appearing near a heli crash 9at least according to the loot tables), then they should be extremely rare... Having a group of guys all equipped with NVG is either the result of some hard work camping the NW airfield, a stroke of fortune unheard of for the rest of us or some form of cheat. If they're not picked up directly from a loot pile, but rather from a dead player, then I have my doubts as to their legitimacy.

As to those defending NVG, sure.. That's cool. Who wouldn't want to fight tooth and nail to keep something that gave them such a godlike advantage. If they're a legal pair legitimately won in battle or found as loot, you deserve them. But the loader you roar in defence of them, the more you come to depend on them.

If Rocket could completely and absolutely prevent any form of object duping, I'd be in favour of wiping out all NVG's and force everyone to find a new, legal pair. Then if you have them or win them then great.... This is an alpha and unfortunately there's a good chance that, once again, cheaters have ruined it for the rest of us.

Personally, if I had a pair of NVG, I'd gladly offer them up (as part of a global reset) if I knew it would help further the testing of the balance of powers in DayZ.

---

+1 remove NVGs and thermals for a patch or two to see how this affects servers at night.

I would also suggest capping brightness and gamma at 1.0

Because if the moon is out all you need to do is turn up brightness and gamma to max and you can see in the dark.Looks kinda like sin city :)

which would defeat the point of the test. IMO

I recall seeing a post that showed the difference between videocards and how they managed the dark. One was virtually black and one looked "gamma tweaked". Personally I don't think gamma tweaks are a cheat if everyone has access to the same configuration. Also some people's eyes have a harder time adjusting....

If ever I hop onto a black server, I shrug, log off and try to find another.... If I was a real survivor and the night was so dark that I couldn't see my hand in front of my face, I would find a safe hole and hide there until daybreak, or at least until I could see a bit more. That's not really an option and I personally prefer moving and playing in the twilight. Shadows mean something and the effect of camo and hiding actually works much better. I hate having to jump to a daytime server because I think they are by far the most dangerous for a solo player....

Just my opinion...

[weedmasta 784]

Shadows actually don't mean anything because you can turn them off.

[LumberBack 43]

Nighttime shouldnt be played as it is daytime...

We have flashlights, we have flares, we have chemlights, we have barrelfires, we have campfires... all which make the game so much more fun to play at night.

in a way nvgs are like god mode.

[Areoss 4]

TL;DR NVGs or NVG snipers/campers are not the problem with night time gameplay. Not being able to see anything without NVGs at night is. Removing them won't solve low pop night time servers.

Isn't that what I was pretty much saying? The problem with the night time games is the people who can't see anything. Vs those who can see everything with no consiquence.

If everyone could see at night then the problem would be solved in one way. Which in a sense' date=' is basically playing in the day time.

Another option is reduce everyones ability to see as clear as day to TRY out. But thats apparently out of the question.

[/quote']

No it isn't. What you are saying is that removing NVGs will solve the problem. It won't. The problem is not people who can't see anything vs. people who can see clearly. The problem is most people do not have NVGs/can't see at night. Removing NVGs would just reduce the number of players playing on night time servers so they would be even less populated than they are now.

I am sorry to say but it is not an option to remove NVGs as it won't solve anything.

The reason I do not go on night servers without having an NVG is because I can't see anything. Not because I am worried that one of the 8 ppl on the server might have nvg on them...

Making everyone be able to see at night on the other hand would totally be pointless because as you said it would not be any different than day time and would defeat the whole purpose of day/night cycle really.

I guess increasing the incentive to play at night could work to some extend to increase population on night time servers e.g. better loot spawns; however I do not know if that is at all possible technically for the dev team.

Increasing NVG spawns is also kinda mute since that will defeat the whole purpose of it being an exclusive item like other rare items.

Back to the NVG, seriously how many people actually don't go on a night server just because there might be a person with a NVG on there? That is such a stupid assumption and reason to remove NVGs.

Again you missed my point, other people seem to have gotten it.

It is one of the methods to attempt to increase peoples interest in playing at night. You have flares, you have chem lights. You have torches, you have camp fires. All of which can give away your position ofcourse, but also make night time play more interesting.

Im not saying remove them WILL fix it. I am saying try it and see what happens.

I play night games. I don't own a pair of NVG's. Knowing people are out there that do have NVG's and you don't, is off putting. Or do you not care about that? Fair play to you if you don't care about that. Your either brave of suicidal.

So are you saying you wouldn't play a night game without NVGs but with flares and torches etc? They allow you to see pretty well.

Not as well as NVG ofcourse since it doesnt matter how you move etc.

Or is it because they give away your position? :) Im just curious now.

[weedmasta 784]

I think you seem to be missing my point entirely. If you use all those tools to brighten up your way, it doesn't matter if another player has NVG or not they will spot you either way, well maybe not so easily in case of road flares since it is like looking into the sun if you have NVGs on.

If I have good equipment and no NVG I won't risk going on night servers because I know that when I do use a flare etc. EVERYONE (NVG or no NVG) will be able to spot me and I rather not take the risk.

If I just started a new life I could care less throwing road flares and whatnot around so I will turn the city into a rave party.

Reason people are not playing on night time servers is not NVGs (i don't think you seem to be able to comprehend this part, I don't know how many times I have said this already), it is because they can be spotted using those other tools (flares, chem, torch) by ANYONE (with or without NVG).

I understand you think it should be tried out and I wouldn't mind if it would be tried out it is an alpha after all. However there is no point in removing them if there is no logical reason to do so. And well there is no logical reason to remove them, temporarily or completely.

[KWilt 157]

I'm with weedmasta on this one.

If NVGs are removed, then the game will pretty much become a game of 'sit here and wait for somebody stupid enough to use a light source to walk by'.

The only safe way to travel would be via chemlight, as the range of visibility is only about 50m. But then you only get 5m of view distance, and by the time you see anything within those 5 meters, you're probably already aggro'd, being shot at, or dead.

[Bo0G 7]

+1

Remove NVG, Rangefinder, and all thermal/NV weapon optics and see how it plays.

Can I have mine back if we revert though?? ;)

[Doc York 0]

Remove NVG for a patch or 2' date=' to try to increase interest for more people to play night time servers. So people don't have a massive advantage, like a rediculous one over someone who doesn't have NVGs.

[/quote']

You know, I came into this thread completely against the idea, even as someone who has never had NVG's. However, it isn't a bad idea.

[scoffield77@gmail.com 192]

they should remove them, or give them a battery life.

I suggested in my powerplant idea that all things that require energy. i.e. flashlights, nvg, radio, range finder, M4/G17, etc. will require being charged at a power source i.e. powerplant/substation/generator

they will all start with low/none bat life

[murhis 4]

OT has a good point, but I must say I disagree with your claim that playing in a night time is more dangerous than playing on a day light server. First of all the possibility you will face somebody who actually has NVGs is very unlikely... and secondly if they are just for killing people they are located at the most common chokepoints. Like NW airfield is a death trap for sure. The map is over 200 sqkms big, so if you want to explore some less important places like NW airfield I guarantee your chances of survival are much greater in a night time server.

Chemlights are very handy for night exploration, they are not illuminating much as flares, but their glow is only visible to 30 meter or so. Further away you are only able to see the small bright dot if it's not obstructed.

Either way I agree with OT that NVG doesn't really belong to this game. They are giving too big comparative advantage. NVG users are basically gods in a night time server. Which actually leads to the chain of the events where the one who finds the NVGs will not play on other servers than on a night time server, because of this clear advantage mentioned before.

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

But the NVG's haven't really come into play as they were presumed. They have basically been given to the first person who can get to the NW Airfield(if they are lucky enough for the spawn) and then camp high in any location they wish with a sniper rifle' date=' to take out anyone who doesn't have NVG's.[/quote']

Not that I want NVGs in the game (and I currently have them) but statements like the above quote are going to seriously weaken your argument. You claim that you're not whining about NVGs and want it removed simply for gameplay sake, and then you post that.

Stop generalizing, stop posting with emotion, stop implying that the removal of NVGs will get rid of sniper bandits, or that any NVG owners automatically turn into sniper bandits.

Never the less, I agree their removal could improve gameplay.

[infinitegrim 47]

You take NVG's, then all night time servers will be empty.

[Redshift 58]

You take NVG's' date=' then all night time servers will be empty.

[/quote']

Prove it. Oh thats right, that is EXACTLY what the OP is proposing. Take them away, test it out, and you will have more definitive proof of what works and what doesnt work. All we have right now is supposition.

Why are so many people afraid of actually testing in this Alpha Test phase?

[Kane (DayZ) 0]

I like the idea of no NVG's, night servers are just hunting grounds for people with them or server hoppers jumping into the low pop server for loot before moving to a diff one.

From the few times that I've played on night servers i've found it quite beautiful with the burning barrels and flares around the place, casting shadows and making it feel like a completely different experience but the thing that is bad about nights is that you know there are many people with nvg that are just waiting to see you and have full advantage of people without NVG.

Removing NVG's would let more people experience night play and might grow to enjoy it more than day play even since there aren't people with massive visual advantages over the others.

[hazedaze 89]

I mostly play at night time servers due to my available gaming - free hours yet I have NEVER found a nvg nor ever seen someone using it. Playing with chemlights-hand held flashlight are good but it needs to be improved. Why?

** primary weapons do more noise than secondary weapons. When you have your flashlight on, being visible to almost 1km distance and impossible to switch secondary if anything comes up so you need to use your primary weapon. lets say you have akm, if you fire a single shot the whole zombie infested town is gonna come to get you.

So if there is gonna be NVGs in game, im fine with it but there should be some sort of flashlight exactly like NVG. Attached to the head, belongs to toolbelt, exposures you less to the other players and while its better than chemlights, its not powerful as hand-held flashlight. It may become as a standard light with new spawning as well.