Ammo Calibration : Poll & Discussion

[hombrecz 832]

The thing is not that it will take extra work to implement extra ammo types,

it will become less probable to find the ammo type you need with every ammo type you are introducing

 

and with the loot "system" that is currently in place, only spawning stuff once per server restart,

you are basically f*cked if you are finding a weapon and no ammo for it has spawned on the whole server

or only at the other side of the map

 

That extra work of creating 2-3 new ammo boxes and bullet models is what? An hour or two?

 

And yes, current loot system is broken, loot appears only at server restart, but that is to be changed in nearish future.

 

I mean I would be all happy, if devs said something like "no new calibers, until loot spawning is fixed".

Have they said anything like that? Nope, they advocate caliber streamlining instead, which is making some folks unhappy, hence they voice their concerns on forums.

 

 

 

 

Also ammo for more "high end" weapons should be rarer to further balance the game. A common "early game" rifle should better not share it's ammo with a very rare and powerful "end game" weapon.

 

 

I might have misunderstood something in your post, but it appears to me, that you are contradicting yourself.

You do not want more calibers, you are for streamlining of it, yet you want sniper ammo to be more rare.

 

Why not make 7.62x54 for common guns (Mosin for example) and keep 7.62x51 for those sniper rifles and higher tier loot?

It would be both realistic in terms what gun uses what and also allow for rare weapon to have rare ammo.

 

You can read what Katana67 wrote several times. He is far from fan of absolute realism, but he sees, that alteast from gameplay perspective, more calibers are good thing as they help to make usage or rare guns harder. 

What is the point of making certain gun rare, when the ammo for it is everywhere?

Edited July 1, 2014 by Hombre

[UltimateGentleman 355]

That extra work of creating 2-3 new ammo boxes and bullet models is what? An hour or two?

 

And you...have a great understanding of all that making the rounds entails?

 

They have to do that, balance out all the ammo drops in a way people won't whine about, configure how much damage they do, design mags for them and codes that say what ammo goes in where, how loud they are, the sound itself, how much they make people bleed, the bullet drops and what distance.

 

Or would you rather they just copied and pasted ammo stats over and just changed the title? What would be the point...

 

They dont want to make 5.45x39 and AK74M, but there is .22 in game and Sporter and Amphibia which I think are very rare in southern Russia..

 

Well, they need to have some crappy weapons in the game those are hardly serious weapons they're there to be the best of a bad situation we can't all have high powered rifles or machine guns can we. Same with the bow, it sucks but if you have no guns or never find any ammo but founds some composite arrows, it's your only option.

[hombrecz 832]

And you...have a great understanding of all that making the rounds entails?

 

They have to do that, balance out all the ammo drops in a way people won't whine about, configure how much damage they do, design mags for them and codes that say what ammo goes in where, how loud they are, the sound itself, how much they make people bleed, the bullet drops and what distance.

 

Or would you rather they just copied and pasted ammo stats over and just changed the title? What would be the point...

 

 

Really? With team that has supposedly over 160 memebers now, you would advocate saving some time on this particular issue?

Also you must know, that lots of stuff is a placeholder, so they could polish it later without problems.

 

Lastly, if the time was the only issue, they could have stated this! But have they? Nope, they just mentioned something about casual players possibly being confused or something like that. Antigame much?

 

But no worries, I understand you don't care about realistic calibers, I really get it.

Thing is that I, and obviously some others too, care.

[coalminer 43]

 

They have to do that, balance out all the ammo drops in a way people won't whine about, configure how much damage they do, design mags for them and codes that say what ammo goes in where, how loud they are, the sound itself, how much they make people bleed, the bullet drops and what distance.

 

Or would you rather they just copied and pasted ammo stats over and just changed the title? What would be the point...

I'd rather them at least do that than make weapons use wrong ammo.

Actually most of those things you mentioned involve just copy/paste and tweak some numbers, it is not hard.

[UltimateGentleman 355]

I'd rather them at least do that than make weapons use wrong ammo.

Actually most of those things you mentioned involve just copy/paste and tweak some numbers, it is not hard.

 

If it's that simple maybe they should hire you then.

 

 

Really? With team that has supposedly over 160 memebers now, you would advocate saving some time on this particular issue?

Also you must know, that lots of stuff is a placeholder, so they could polish it later without problems.

 

Lastly, if the time was the only issue, they could have stated this! But have they? Nope, they just mentioned something about casual players possibly being confused or something like that. Antigame much?

 

But no worries, I understand you don't care about realistic calibers, I really get it.

Thing is that I, and obviously some others too, care.

 

And get neverending complaints until they did polish it, ammo is a complete nonissue the people that would have to work on the bullets should be fixing other stuff, sound guys should be fixing the weird bug where you hear random zombies/cans opening/etc.

Other design and animation orientated members should be fixing the animations, adding more, designing buildings and other item.

 

The people that care are in the vast minority in the grand scheme of the game it barely matters, maybe they will add a couple of more, probably but not one for each and every gun that happens to be slightly different in caliber.

 

 

I would rather just have some cool guns in the game than have to care about the ammo for them that much, I want a distinctive cool looking and cool sounding gun as long as it works nothing else matters much.

If it was a choice between gun and ammo variety taking priority, hands down, guns win.

[stielhandgranate 480]

Don't forget 9x39mm too

 

completely unique round

 

• High power
• High accuracy
• low decibel
• short range sniper rifle round

 

 

 

And as you can see everything from medium range sniper rifles to pdws come in that caliber.

Would put in more soviet and Russian firearms into the game and hopefully less western ones.

 

Some of these could count into the ultra high end military loot.

 

I was going to add 9x39 for the Groza and VSS/VAL but I figured it would garner whines from the anti military items crowd.

[Buffaloe 87]

I might have misunderstood something in your post, but it appears to me, that you are contradicting yourself.

You do not want more calibers, you are for streamlining of it, yet you want sniper ammo to be more rare.

 

Why not make 7.62x54 for common guns (Mosin for example) and keep 7.62x51 for those sniper rifles and higher tier loot?

It would be both realistic in terms what gun uses what and also allow for rare weapon to have rare ammo.

 

You can read what Katana67 wrote several times. He is far from fan of absolute realism, but he sees, that alteast from gameplay perspective, more calibers are good thing as they help to make usage or rare guns harder. 

What is the point of making certain gun rare, when the ammo for it is everywhere?

 

That is exactly my point. Streamline different calibers where it makes sense for the gameplay.

You said it yourself, streamlined and therefore more common ammo for the common guns. But more specific, and as a result of that, rarer ammo for the rare high end guns.

 

I don't mind having more ammo types in game either. More variety, (to a certain degree) is good for the game.

However, having a very large amount of different, yet very similiar ammo types for guns that may even fill the same role in the game is more a burden than a treat.

[gibonez 3633]

I was going to add 9x39 for the Groza and VSS/VAL but I figured it would garner whines from the anti military items crowd.

Rule of thumb seems to be that military weapons are fine so long as they are of Russian origin. Nobody freaks out over that.

[coalminer 43]

If it's that simple maybe they should hire you then.

Maybe they should, but I am not available at the moment.

 

That is exactly my point. Streamline different calibers where it makes sense for the gameplay.

But it never makes sense. They should either stick to reality or invent completely fictional weapons.

[Deathlove 2286]

Rule of thumb seems to be that military weapons are fine so long as they are of Russian origin. Nobody freaks out over that.

I do all the freaking time. In defense of ppl being ok with the M4A1 being totally fucking inaccurate and anything AK being some kind of bullshit god send weapon.

[coalminer 43]

The people that care are in the vast minority in the grand scheme of the game it barely matters, maybe they will add a couple of more, probably but not one for each and every gun that happens to be slightly different in caliber.

The minority you're talking about is 77.17% according to the poll in this very thread.

[gibonez 3633]

At the end of the day the argument is simple.

 

Streamlining ammo only does two things, it makes the game easier and it makes the game unrealistic and unauthentic which is a shame because in most parts it tries really hard to achieve those two things.

 

You can't model a players blood type then have incorrect calibers and heal gunshot wounds to the head with a dirty rag.

[UltimateGentleman 355]

The minority you're talking about is 77.17% according to the poll in this very thread.

 

On this forum out of 91 people. Hardly relevant to the amount of people who play the game.

 

If everyone who did voted and it was 77% then it would matter but most people just play the game instead of demanding this so yeah, minority.

[hombrecz 832]

That is exactly my point. Streamline different calibers where it makes sense for the gameplay.

You said it yourself, streamlined and therefore more common ammo for the common guns. But more specific, and as a result of that, rarer ammo for the rare high end guns.

 

I don't mind having more ammo types in game either. More variety, (to a certain degree) is good for the game.

However, having a very large amount of different, yet very similiar ammo types for guns that may even fill the same role in the game is more a burden than a treat.

 

I guess that we can agree atleast to certain degree.

Few more calibers would not hurt the game, would be realistic and would allow for certain calibers to be more rare.

 

But please no blasphemy like AK in 5.56 caliber. I might be overemotive on this, but I would hate that to happen.

I know it exists but come on...in post soviet country (even if fictional) ?

 

 

On this forum out of 91 people. Hardly relevant to the amount of people who play the game.

 

If everyone who did voted and it was 77% then it would matter but most people just play the game instead of demanding this so yeah, minority.

 

 

Unless you provide some hard number, you seem to be member of even smaller minority.

If you dislike realistic games I assure you, you can have your fun elsewhere.

DayZ SA does not need to be ruined nor needlessly streamlined to be success! Which it already kinda has been btw.

Edited July 1, 2014 by Hombre

[gibonez 3633]

 

 

Unless you provide some hard number, you seem to be member of even smaller minority.

If you dislike realistic games I assure you, you can have your fun elsewhere.

DayZ SA does not need to be ruined nor needlessly streamlined to be success! Which it already kinda has been btw.

 

this is what I don't understand. Why do people buy dayz and expect it to be a casual easy game.

 

Did they not play previous Bohemia Interactive games, did they not play the mod ?

Expecting Dayz to be anything but a realistic game seems ludicrous to me.

Some of us have been playing Bohemia Interactive games since we were little children simple because they were realistic games something we simply cannot get with 99 percent of other games.

 

I remember playing Operation Flashpoint back when I was maybe 9 or 10 on a Riva tnt 2 32 mb video card. I would play the demo for hours on end simply messing in the demo mission as every time I played it was completely different and realistic.

 

Then I finally got a hold of the retail game at a target and installing the cd roms and spending what seems like hundreds of hours in the editor playing and messing with new addons that increased the games richness.

 

None of that would have happened if Bohemia Interactive games were ordinary unrealistic arcade games. People followed them and built a community around these games because of their attention to realism and authenticity and their devotion to a healthy and vibrant modding community.

 

Yet I keep seeing new players asking for unrealistic and unauthentic things that goes against all that.

[frozenjaws 69]

Who gives a fuck about 3-4 more types of calibers that essentially are the exact same.. when mod support comes, go ham.. it shouldnt have to drag the rest of the players down with you.. realism < fun

Edited July 1, 2014 by Frozenjaws

[coalminer 43]

Who gives a fuck about 3-4 more types of calibers that essentially are the exact same.. when mod support comes, go ham.. it shouldnt have to drag the rest of the players down with you.. realism < fun

Yeah, that would be the end of us all for sure. Totally drag the entire game down and destroy it.

[hombrecz 832]

this is what I don't understand. Why do people buy dayz and expect it to be a casual easy game.

Did they not play previous Bohemia Interactive games, did they not play the mod ?

Yet I keep seeing new players asking for unrealistic and unauthentic things that goes against all that.

 

True and true. We now have folks that will argue to death, that SA does have nothing in common with Mod, which is pure madness. 

 

Plus it would be tremendous pitty and wasted chance, if SA sunk into mediocrity and catering to mythical casual Joe.

It was also mentioend several times, that many casuals enjoyed mod, they have been able to adjust and in the end enjoy more demanding game.

 

And why not? Whoever wants to play casual game, they can play WarZ (infestation stories), Nether, they will soon get H1Z1 and tons more.

 

I know that even DayZ mod did "casual" stuff like carrying motors in backpack and stuff like that.

Still, there is no need to introduce more of such "crutches". I'd say that Devs should even remove some from Standalone, certainly not add new ones.

 

WHY, I ask, should DayZ Standalone waste the chance to be unique, same as mod was,  and steer closer to above mentioned casual friendly games?

Edited July 1, 2014 by Hombre

[coalminer 43]

True and true. We now have folks that will argue to death, that SA does have nothing in common with Mod, which is pure madness. 

 

Plus it would be tremendous pitty and wasted chance, if SA sunk into mediocrity and catering to mythical casual Joe.

It was also mentioend several times, that many casuals enjoyed mod, they have been able to adjust and in the end enjoy more demanding game.

 

And why not? Whoever wants to play casual game, they can play WarZ (infestation stories), Nether, they will soon get H1Z1 and tons more.

 

I know that even DayZ mod did "casual" stuff like carrying motors in backpack and stuff like that.

Still, there is no need to introduce more of such "crutches". I'd say that Devs should even remove some from Standalone, certainly not add new ones.

 

WHY, I ask, should DayZ Standalone waste the chance to be unique, same as mod was,  and steer closer to above mentioned casual friendly games?

Exactly, actually these casuals dragging us down with them, not the other way around as they claim.

[frozenjaws 69]

Yeah, that would be the end of us all for sure. Totally drag the entire game down and destroy it.

What does it add? pls educate me. Realism for realism's sake? Do we need shoe sizes as well? makes perfect sense, right. The game is built by Bohemia interactive, its all about realism. That argument makes perfect sense because zombies. Now i dont mean to question the almighty wisdom of mr. 1400 posts and 3500 posts, but it seems to me that you want to go outside a bit more, its about as realistic as it gets. Send me my check in the mail!

[gibonez 3633]

What does it add? pls educate me. Realism for realism's sake? Do we need shoe sizes as well? makes perfect sense, right. The game is built by Bohemia interactive, its all about realism. That argument makes perfect sense because zombies. Now i dont mean to question the almighty wisdom of mr. 1400 posts and 3500 posts, but it seems to me that you want to go outside a bit more, its about as realistic as it gets. Send me my check in the mail!

 

Depth, complexity, variety , raises the skill gap, allows for real world knowledge to affect in game activity.

 

Realism adds all these, it is not hard to grasp realism makes the game deeper and thus more fun with a longer lifespan.

[hombrecz 832]

Exactly, actually these casuals dragging us down with them, not the other way around as they claim.

 

I think some of these dudes are just lost. It might be first time they play a game, which does not strive to hold their hand all the time. For those, the very idea of having like 10 different calibers in total, is simply too much.

 

I guess I can understand them. What I don't, is when Devs are trying to appease them, more so, when they already sold over 2 mil copies and the number is still rising.

[gibonez 3633]

I think some of these dudes are just lost. It might be first time they play a game, which does not strive to hold their hand all the time. For those, the very idea of having like 10 different calibers in total, is simply too much.

 

I guess I can understand them. What I don't, is when Devs are trying to appease them, more so, when they already sold over 2 mil copies and the number is still rising.

 

Exactly the problem is having correct calibers is not even a huge thing to be concerned about what if they ever adopt a realistic medical system, realistic shooting mechanics, realistic vehicle repair ?

 

Will the devs be willing to dumb those things down too ? just so a handful of people don't get overly confused ? I say ignore the people who can't spend 10 minutes on google looking up how to do something in game. It isn't rocket science yet the idea of realistic things such a stamina system, or having to find the right caliber for a gun makes some people lose their shit.

 

Part of me thinks they complain because realistic additions just gets in the way of their endless loop of spawn, loot, pvp, die and repeat.

[frozenjaws 69]

Depth, complexity, variety , raises the skill gap, allows for real world knowledge to affect in game activity.

 

Realism adds all these, it is not hard to grasp realism makes the game deeper and thus more fun with a longer lifespan.

Alright let me comment on each of these points individually ok.

 

Depth. Not something limited to realism, seeing as most if not all features and content will add depth.

Complexity. Sure, sure. The thing with games though, is that people need clarity when first starting out so complexity for no apparent reason makes no sense. Not everyone wants to study for a week before being able to play a game.(i dont mind)

Variety. Ok ok, i just think time could be spent on making content that would then actually be varied. See what i did there. 

Raises the skill gap. Fine, if you want to feel superior in a game which only skill gap would be memorizing calibers sure.

"Realism adds all these, it is not hard to grasp realism makes the game deeper and thus more fun with a longer lifespan." 

Ooooh wow you're good, you made that sound like a fact and not an opinion, but whatever lets roll with it,

[coalminer 43]

I understand people who just don't care, but why would anyone actively oppose this? Having wrong calibers does not make any sense. Why have wrong calibers when we can have right ones