Ammo Calibration : Poll & Discussion

[Daemonkid 493]

you find these weapons at NWA - except the SVD you find at helicrashes. Every second or third helicrash there are 2 SVDs lying around, left by players who already passed through and didn't want them.

You're telling me you have found MULTIPLE At-4 rocket launchers? The SVD was relatively uncommon. Bizons were the guaranteed weapon found at any crash. I've found more Bizons than I can fucking count. Rarely did I ever see an SVD. I usually ended up finding them in a barracks. Dmr's, M14's, Fal's, Bizons, were the common helicopter crash loot. SVD, M24, M240 were all rarer and could also be found within barracks. 

 

So you're talking out of your ass. 

[pilgrim* 3514]

..//..

So you're talking out of your ass. 

 

well thank you for listening

to it

 

xx pilgrim

Edited June 4, 2014 by pilgrim

[finnpalm 312]

Because in reality.......

 

Well, I personally enjoy the level of realism in the game. I hope they strive to make the game even more realistic.

 

And inb4 "lolr zombies", they even decided to make them humans infected with a virus rather than risen dead. Even in the improbable they strive for realism. I'm fully aware that you can't make a game 100% realistic. That's my main gripe with games to be honest. But when balancing the realistic against the playable I think there is a very wide spectra of what constitutes "balance", and that is completely down to opinion.

 

What I consider playable might seem idiotic to you. Who is right?

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Well, I personally enjoy the level of realism in the game. I hope they strive to make the game even more realistic.

 

And inb4 "lolr zombies", they even decided to make them humans infected with a virus rather than risen dead. Even in the improbable they strive for realism. I'm fully aware that you can't make a game 100% realistic. That's my main gripe with games to be honest. But when balancing the realistic against the playable I think there is a very wide spectra of what constitutes "balance", and that is completely down to opinion.

 

What I consider playable might seem idiotic to you. Who is right?

Sorry, I should have just quoted your "why can't there be a middle ground?" Question. That was my sarcastic answer to those who want to have every caliber and weapon known to man in game

[PhillyT 554]

well thank you for listening

to it

 

xx pilgrim

 

He is a kid.  Says so in his name.  Can't expect too much rational discourse Pilgrim.

[Daemonkid 493]

He is a kid.  Says so in his name.  Can't expect too much rational discourse Pilgrim.

Oh. That's nice. Because of an online handle I've used since I was young. You know, it says DAEMON, right? Meaning a spawn from hell, satanic, paranormal. 

But, I guess in your all mighty knowledge that escaped you.

Edited June 5, 2014 by Daemonkid

[Chaingunfighter 917]

Balancing has not been completed on *anything*. Balancing passes will be conducted towards the end of Alpha and again throughout Beta. There is little point in balancing systems that are subject to complete change and replacement, or you end up constantly rebalancing things. EDIT: Furthermore, it's absolutely useless to compare Arma values with DayZ because we use not only a *completely* different mechanic for control, but the values are used in an entirely different way. As an example, in DayZ dispersion is calculated using the item along with all attachments. Arma does not *have* attachments. So in the M4A1 example: the base dispersion of the M4 is very high because you have no hand-guard, no buttstock, no anything. Until you put on the buttstock and the handguard, by design, the game will have the weapon shoot extremely wide. **tl;dr: This is a classic case of "apples and oranges". ArmA and DayZ values are completely different**.

- Dean "Rocket" Hall"

 

While this post was in response specifically to the game's weapon dispersion versus ArmA 2 (which Dean himself admits is a problem, just not a priority fix or balance), it can easily be applied to most of the devs decisions; Weapons firing unreasonable ammunition (Mosin), leaving guns in development hell to cut down on calibers (AK-74M), or having game-design errors with the weapons themselves (Mosin using LRS). A lot of this will probably be changed once the core features of the game start becoming implemented and major problems such as zombie pathfinding an AI get the necessary work done.

While this is completely personal, I do find that this would go well with Chris Torchia's quote, as they would probably not want to have a full set of calibers in the game which may not make it into the final product. That's just how I feel, but somehow I doubt the devs would let their work go to waste.

[Daemonkid 493]

Balancing has not been completed on *anything*. Balancing passes will be conducted towards the end of Alpha and again throughout Beta. There is little point in balancing systems that are subject to complete change and replacement, or you end up constantly rebalancing things. EDIT: Furthermore, it's absolutely useless to compare Arma values with DayZ because we use not only a *completely* different mechanic for control, but the values are used in an entirely different way. As an example, in DayZ dispersion is calculated using the item along with all attachments. Arma does not *have* attachments. So in the M4A1 example: the base dispersion of the M4 is very high because you have no hand-guard, no buttstock, no anything. Until you put on the buttstock and the handguard, by design, the game will have the weapon shoot extremely wide. **tl;dr: This is a classic case of "apples and oranges". ArmA and DayZ values are completely different**.

- Dean "Rocket" Hall"

 

 

While this is a good response for the game at this time. I am fine with limited calibers, for now. But down the line, I want many different calibers for gameplay reasons. A saturated loot table is only good for the game.

[Chaingunfighter 917]

While this is a good response for the game at this time. I am fine with limited calibers, for now. But down the line, I want many different calibers for gameplay reasons. A saturated loot table is only good for the game.

I want that, too.

But people are getting their panties in a bunch because the devs have even talked about it, so it's important to inform people that it's like talking short term.

Long-run, ammunition would be much more precious if they varied it a lot. Sure, there are plenty of common calibers you can have variation in (like 9x19mm, .45 ACP, 5.56x45mm, and 7.62x51mm), but guns like the VSS Vintorez use 9x39mm which would probably only have a few guns.

Imagine going on a loot run and finding a VSS Vintorez (whether it would spawn in barracks or chopper crash sites, I don't know, but assume its rare.) You already have a good .308 M700 hunting rifle with a substantial amount of ammo, but you were lucky enough to find a gun you may not have a chance for again. So you have to decide on taking the internally suppressed sniper-rifle on the chance that you may find more magazines or rounds for it, but are incredibly unlikely to do so, or your hunting rifle, which will last you a lot longer but will not be as effective and also not as limited.

[pilgrim* 3514]

So..

1 ) there is no such thing as a "rare" gun

 

and there is duping in the game ATM.

 

2 ) there is no need for 30 - 40 gun types in the game. There were a lot of gun types in the mod because it was an ArmA2 mod. They took out plenty of guns and left too many in that game.

 

We don't need them.

 

(some kids were still "looking" for M107s after they'd been taken out of the game, lol, so they think they were rare)

 

there is NO NEED for a lot of guns in DayZ SA

 

- what do you WANT them for ?

 

you say 'rare guns' but you imagine holding them in your hot sweaty little hands already. 

By 'rare' you mean "the bambies won't find them"

gimme a break

 

xx

 

 

[and stop with the half-assed polls already

- if I polled "who wants flamethrowers and laser-pistols" yo' know I'd win]

 

lolz

Edited June 5, 2014 by pilgrim

[Daemonkid 493]

So..

1 ) there is no such thing as a "rare" gun

 

and there is duping in the game ATM.

 

2 ) there is no need for 30 - 40 gun types in the game. There were a lot of gun types in the mod because it was an ArmA2 mod. They took out plenty of guns and left too many in that game.

 

We don't need them.

 

(some kids were still "looking" for M107s after they'd been taken out of the game, lol, so they think they were rare)

 

there is NO NEED for a lot of guns in DayZ SA

 

- what do you WANT them for ?

 

you say 'rare guns' but you imagine holding them in your hot sweaty little hands already. 

By 'rare' you mean "the bambies won't find them"

gimme a break

 

xx

No he means "RARE" in the sense you have something to search for when it's all said and done. If there are only so many guns, and they're relatively common, what's the fucking point? I can pick any shooter and go "boom". With that logic, don't add the AKM, since it's an assault rifle and we already have the M4. Remember we don't need them. No need to add another bolt action rifle, because we have the mosin, right?

 

Rare weapons give you something to strive for some "coolness" factor too it. Different people like different aesthetics. It gives you something to search for gives you a sort of status among other players. "Oh he has such and such" That player then has to be careful, because he's sporting that weapon. People will want to take it from him for themselves. 

[pilgrim* 3514]

With that logic, don't add the AKM, since it's an assault rifle and we already have the M4. Remember we don't need them. No need to add another bolt action rifle, because we have the mosin, right?

 

Hey, you're getting the idea

 

While you're there - how about EIGHT different kinds of fishing rod ? (and 17 different kinds of can-opener)

- does that get you hot ?

[Daemonkid 493]

The RPK and M240 are both machine guns. But I prefer the RPK over the M240. But we should only add the one of the 2, because hey, they're both machine guns right? They both do the same thing.

[Daemonkid 493]

Hey, you're getting the idea

 

While you're there - how about EIGHT different kinds of fishing rod ? (and 17 different kinds of can-opener)

- does that get you hot ?

Are the aesthetically different fishing rods? Is one used for fly fishing while the other is for use in open water such as the sea?

 

-Also, we already have basically 17 different types of can openers. (The can opener, axe, bayonets, knives, screwdriver ect)

Edited June 5, 2014 by Daemonkid

[pilgrim* 3514]

Are the aesthetically different fishing rods? Is one used for fly fishing while the other is for use in open water such as the sea?

 

-Also, we already have basically 17 different types of can openers. (The can opener, axe, bayonets, knives, screwdriver ect)

 

Guess you never studied fishing rods.. (shouldn't have spent all your times on guns) .. Fishing rods come in all kinds of designs and materials and pieces are not mutually interchangeable. They are manufactured by the Chinese, the USA, Russia, etc, from carbon fibre, split bamboo, glassfibre.. etc.. they have different lengths and calibres, different equipment (some of the equipment is interchangeable to give you a different rod for different fishing-tactics in a different environment) Some fishing rods are camo, some are not, some are expensive some are crap... but .. er... who cares right? when we say REALISM we only mean  GUNS.. aint that so ??

Why do we need 40 different GUNS in the game - so we can all PVP real COOL of course, and have military fantasies about how REAL it all is, how detailed.. how tru to life

 

And:  when I said CAN OPENERS I meant real ones.. you never noticed how many different TYPES there are? Some made in russia, or those little USA military issue can openers, etc, and local civilian can openers..  All DIFFERENT. Lets get REAL ok ?

 

You probably don't care because you're not a lifetime expert can-opener freak (like I am) but we agree they should be realistic, right?

And while we're there..

To be REAL we need at least 3 Aluminium Foil BEANIE HATS in this game.

 

xx

Edited June 5, 2014 by pilgrim

[Daemonkid 493]

Guess you never studied fishing rods.. (shouldn't have spent all your times on guns) .. Fishing rods come in all kinds of designs and materials and pieces are not mutually interchangeable. They

Uhm, what? I don't think you even know what YOUR talking about anymore.

[Daemonkid 493]

Guess you never studied fishing rods.. (shouldn't have spent all your times on guns) .. Fishing rods come in all kinds of designs and materials and pieces are not mutually interchangeable. They are manufactured by the Chinese, the USA, Russia, etc, from carbon fibre, split bamboo, glassfibre.. etc.. they have different lengths and calibres, different equipment (some of the equipment is interchangeable to give you a different rod for different fishing-tactics in a different environment) Some fishing rods are camo, some are not, some are expensive some are crap... but .. er... who cares right? when we say REALISM we only mean  GUNS.. aint that so ??

Why do we need 40 different GUNS in the game - so we can all PVP real COOL of course, and have military fantasies about how REAL it all is, how detailed.. how tru to life

 

And:  when I said CAN OPENERS I meant real ones.. you never noticed how many different TYPES there are? Some made in russia, or those little USA military issue can openers, etc, and local civilian can openers..  All DIFFERENT. Lets get REAL ok ?

Lmao. Now you're really fucking reaching. But, add in plenty of different fishing rods, such as fly fishing, deep sea fishing, carp rods, surf rods, trolling rods. It will give me more stuff to collect and allow me to do the things that their intended function is for. I wouldn't expect to make a fishing rod ingame and then be able to use it to fish in the sea. 

See. The debate about guns isn't for realism, and that's what you don't get. It's for gameplay reasons. But, you're thick and don't understand that point. But it's okay son. We understand.

[hombrecz 832]

Hey, you're getting the idea

 

While you're there - how about EIGHT different kinds of fishing rod ? (and 17 different kinds of can-opener)

- does that get you hot ?

 

Dude you are not making any sense I'm affraid.

Maybe you are gunphobic, then you should probably play Sims or some other peacefull game.

 

I'd say it's pretty reasonable to expect atleast the same ammount of guns as in DayZ mod and all of them using the correct caliber.

[Daemonkid 493]

Hombre, as I said before. They have no leg to stand on so they continue with these exaggerated statements, and keep using the "REALISUM" card when I have already stated, my opinion on this subject is not realism or authenticity based, it's for a game play perspective yet they do not understand this. Katana has made excellent posts regarding this and they are ignored by them because it conflicts with the way they view the game.

[pilgrim* 3514]

I'd say it's pretty reasonable to expect atleast the same ammount of guns as in DayZ mod and all of them using the correct caliber.

 

Why ?

 

beanie hat

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Why ?

 

beanie hat

Because real life yo.

 

Plus that army game that DayZ SA keeps getting compared to has them.

[Daemonkid 493]

Regardless. It seems like the poll, as useless as it is; shows that in general the consensus is that players want the weapons to fire their correct ammo.

 

Tough luck butter cup. Grasping at straws ladies. 

[infiltrator 275]

Because real life yo.

 

Plus that army game that DayZ SA keeps getting compared to has them.

 

Let me get this straight, you're STILL trying to argue it's not a fair comparison to put DayZ besides arma, when it's STILL using the same engine and assets from that game, STILL using similar combat/movement mechanics (for better or for worse), STILL being developed by the same studio, and STILL striving to be faithful to the mod while expanding on that experience?

 

Those are some hardcore mental gymnastics you have to go through to convince yourself into that.

Edited June 5, 2014 by Infiltrator

[hombrecz 832]

Let me get this straight, you're STILL trying to argue it's not a fair comparison to put DayZ besides arma, when it's STILL using the same engine and assets from that game, STILL using similar combat/movement mechanics (for better or for worse), STILL being developed by the same studio, and STILL striving to be faithful to the mod while expanding on that experience?

 

Those are some hardcore mental gymnastics you have to go through to convince yourself into that.

 

Whats more amusing is, that such folks does not even acknowledge DayZ mod as being 100% relevant as influence or even predecessor of DayZ SA.

Such fools will argue to the death, that SA has completely nothing in common with mod, that there is no connection whatsoever, which is ofc 100% nonsence.

 

...or they are just trolling us. That is even the more reasonable explanation rather then them being so thick.

Edited June 5, 2014 by Hombre

[gibonez 3633]

Jesus this thread is still going.

 

This clearly shows how important realism and authenticity is to the community.