Why Were Helicopters "Overpowered" In The Vanilla Mod?

[Katana67 2907]

So yeah, folks say that helicopters could "dominate" the map in the mod, without actually considering what factors allowed them to "dominate" (which is highly debatable).

 

In my two years of playing the mod, I can count on one hand how many times I've been killed by a helicopter. I never found them to be remotely outlandish in what they allowed players to do. One is trading speed and visibility for stealth. And the helicopters could be taken down by small arms fire. Plus one requires a group to be effective offensively, otherwise, they're just glorified [and loud] flying cars. And folks on the ground, more often than not, could evade the helicopter's ire by simply... not firing at the helicopter.

 

I've taken the liberty of breaking down the factors which could be considered to make helicopters "overpowered" in the mod (none of which have to do with helicopters as a concept)...

 

1. Easy to spot players from the air due to client-side spawns of zombies

 

2. Easy to spot players from the air due to artificially turning down graphics settings (i.e. ATOC)

 

3. Easy to spot vehicles/tents from the air due to a lack of camouflage/storage options and poor graphical contrast

 

4. Highly flexible third-person view whilst piloting

 

5. Readily available and inconsequential fuel supplies

 

6. Auto-refill ammunition on armed helicopters upon server restart

 

7. Generic repair parts which are able to be found across the map

 

8. Every pilot and passenger gets an innate parachute, able to deploy teammates without risking the helicopter itself

 

DISCLAIMER - This does not apply to mods of the vanilla mod.

Edited May 17, 2014 by Katana67

[hannibaldaplaya 1095]

Force helicopters into first-person only view, and fix 1, 2, and 3, and helicopters will be okay with me.

[DropBearChick 1217]

Yeah but there only good with two or more people unless your scouting an area.

[-Gews- 7443]

Fly around with an all-seeing-eye, get to any part of the map in a couple minutes, drop team members off to surround or snipe people while gunners fire at them, hide them ten kilometers off the map, and of course if there's a Huey or Mi-17 it almost always comes with a clan attached free of charge.

But the only real "domination" is flying around and seeing any camps or vehicles very easily.

[Katana67 2907]

...drop team members off to surround or snipe people while gunners fire at them, hide them ten kilometers off the map...

 

That's another good one that I forgot, everyone gets a parachute.

 

And to my knowledge, the second issue was resolved.

[irl-calibre 744]

they wern't over powered! they were the best craic ever when you had a good group and not millions of them..

Edited May 17, 2014 by Calibre

[Katana67 2907]

they wern't over powered! they were the best craic ever when you had a good group and not millions of them..

 

I agree! This is more to ascertain why people think they're "overpowered." Because this is something I hear a lot, and disagree with.

[maybeme 22]

I didn't think they were too overpowered at all. I've actually been shot out of one on more than one occasion.

The only bad thing is the helicopter flies at such a height that ground cover doesn't affect it, but since the standalone is much better graphics and modability wise, I'm sure they can fix it so ground cover actually spawns everywhere and makes it harder to spot a small camo tent in a tree.

[Katana67 2907]

makes it harder to spot a small camo tent in a tree.

 

That and they've expressed interest in having smaller storage, like backpacks. Doubt they'd be as easy to spot as tents.

 

This is why I ended up storing my tents in smaller villages. Less conspicuous against buildings.

 

Plus, I always found the tents to be easy to spot because they just contrasted too much with the tones of the woods (not to mention just graphically).

Edited May 17, 2014 by Katana67

[maybeme 22]

Yeah, I know what you mean. I used to find some small village in the mod and set up a tent in a backyard, hopefuly next to a shed or in a dark corner so it wasn't obvious.

Noone ever thought to check all buildings in the mod, even more so the ones in a small village you don't remember the name of.

[lipemr 160]

So yeah, folks say that helicopters could "dominate" the map in the mod, without actually considering what factors allowed them to "dominate" (which is highly debatable).

 

In my two years of playing the mod, I can count on one hand how many times I've been killed by a helicopter. I never found them to be remotely outlandish in what they allowed players to do. One is trading speed and visibility for stealth. And the helicopters could be taken down by small arms fire. Plus one requires a group to be effective offensively, otherwise, they're just glorified [and loud] flying cars. And folks on the ground, more often than not, could evade the helicopter's ire by simply... not firing at the helicopter.

 

I've taken the liberty of breaking down the factors which could be considered to make helicopters "overpowered" in the mod (none of which have to do with helicopters as a concept)...

 

1. Easy to spot players from the air due to client-side spawns of zombies

 

2. Easy to spot players from the air due to artificially turning down graphics settings (i.e. ATOC)

 

3. Easy to spot vehicles/tents from the air due to a lack of camouflage/storage options and poor graphical contrast

 

4. Highly flexible third-person view whilst piloting

 

5. Readily available and inconsequential fuel supplies

 

6. Auto-refill ammunition on armed helicopters upon server restart

 

7. Generic repair parts which are able to be found across the map

 

8. Every pilot and passenger gets an innate parachute, able to deploy teammates without risking the helicopter itself

 

DISCLAIMER - This does not apply to mods of the vanilla mod.

 

did you really play the mod?

 

HUEYs were just impossible to take down unless you had a m240 or a DMR with 10 mags.

 

And you really think they'll be any different in the game? The ballistics were OK and they made the incredible deed of fucking it up, do you really expect that they'll rework the entire helicopter mechanics?

Edited May 17, 2014 by lipemr

[maybeme 22]

I don't think so :D

I got one with an M4 before. Shoot for the main rotor if you can and you'll get it. Or the tail.

I played OA campaign and my tail rotor got shot out. Without autohover, the helicopter spun out of control, and crashed.

I would love to see the ability to stabilize a helicopter in game.

I also remember a time I saw a Little Bird at NEAF and shot it down with a SAW like it was a fly. Thirty shots later and the guy was laying on the ground, and the main rotor and glass was destroyed.

[Katana67 2907]

did you really play the mod?

 

HUEYs were just impossible to take down unless you had a m240 or a DMR with 10 mags.

 

And you really think they'll be any different in the game? The ballistics were OK and they made the incredible deed of fucking it up, do you really expect that they'll rework the entire helicopter mechanics?

 

Can you start a comment without making a vitriolic assumption? Yes, I did play the mod, I stated so... in the OP.

 

And my statement still stands, they can be taken down by small arms.

 

Yes, I do expect they'll re-work the entire helicopter mechanic... because they've said they're reworking vehicles entirely.

Edited May 17, 2014 by Katana67

[IkaikaKekai 1957]

My problem was that they were armed, and the view distance allowed them to see pretty much anyone trying to hide in scrub/bushes/trees.  That and the mounted guns on them.  Also unless you had an LMG or were a crack shot with a sniper rifle you were pretty much fucked.

 

I'd like to see it so that we only have unarmed Helis (Civil aircraft/unarmed military transports).  Instantly having a parachute should be removed as well.  If added at all they should be a loot item you have to wear if you want to jump out without dying/breaking your legs, and it would replace your pack/vest.  You want to insert your team into an area, you actually have to land long enough for them to get out.  I also like the idea of first person only for Helis.

 

Something that should be solved by the TOH mechanics is that not every idiot can just jump in the pilots seat and 'fly' good enough to get 20 feet off the ground and do a belly flop into the ground ruining hours/days of hard work.  Now your standard idiot shouldn't even be able to turn the thing out properly without a shitton of luck.

[Katana67 2907]

My problem was that they were armed, and the view distance allowed them to see pretty much anyone trying to hide in scrub/bushes/trees.  That and the mounted guns on them.  Also unless you had an LMG or were a crack shot with a sniper rifle you were pretty much fucked.

 

I don't think they need to be unarmed. I think some should be armed, although I would love to see more "civilian" helicopters.

 

One person versus a helicopter shouldn't be able to come out on top 99% of the time. Hence why one shouldn't shoot at them unless you're ready to live with the consequences. It shouldn't be a fair fight at all.

 

Sure, I agree that it's too easy to spot people from a helicopter.

 

But I don't really expect to win if I'm engaging an armed helicopter by myself. They should be a force to be reckoned with. One of the most tense moments I've had in DayZ was getting caught in Stary, in the middle of the night, by a fully armed helicopter with a searchlight. I had to prone all the way across the southern field without getting spotted while it searched the area for me, after I'd stupidly baited it in over sidechat.

 

If every helicopter was unarmed, people would just shoot at them 24/7 and there'd be zero consequence.

Edited May 17, 2014 by Katana67

[maybeme 22]

It'd be awesome if they added a pilot's manual for certain helicopters to the game as books found in military places. That way, books can be worth something and you have to read them to fly, so you can't just hope in, press Q, and go.

[Fern Baron 128]

did you really play the mod?

 

HUEYs were just impossible to take down unless you had a m240 or a DMR with 10 mags.

 

And you really think they'll be any different in the game? The ballistics were OK and they made the incredible deed of fucking it up, do you really expect that they'll rework the entire helicopter mechanics?

 

I guess you came into the mod a little late seeing as though you didn't mention .50's.

 

And I wouldn't be surprised to see a complete overhaul of helicopters and piloting them in DayZ. And if it's anything like Take on Helicopters it will make piloting a tricky task for most players.

[lipemr 160]

I guess you came into the mod a little late seeing as though you didn't mention .50's.

 

And I wouldn't be surprised to see a complete overhaul of helicopters and piloting them in DayZ. And if it's anything like Take on Helicopters it will make piloting a tricky task for most players.

 

nope, i played back when duped AS50s were found all over sniper hills, and i didnt even mention them because they had no place in dayz either. They removed it for good because that.

 

and i dont think they'll bring up an entirely new mechanic for vehicles, as they're struggling hard to even get the engine modifications working right.

 

There's still terrible desync, lag and exploits scattered around the game, and it's already pretty much half a year of alpha, considering that they were working on it for 1 year already before the release.

[Daemonkid 493]

Not over-powered. An annoyance if you didn't have one and a god-send if you did.

 

I would usually trail the debug zone looking for choppers hidden in crevices and valleys of the debug hills. Once I found a working one, or a stash that had the supplies to get one running, I would use it to scout for bases and look for the locations of cars. Once I found what I was looking for and knew the areas I should be searching I would bail the chopper into a main city like Cherno or Electro. If I survived the landing I would go start looking at the grids where I spotted stashes and cars. 

 

Even got into a few helicopter duels with other clans. Those were fun. 

 

Huey is easy as fuck to take down with anything that fires 7.62 and took more work if you were using something that used 5.56 but it still banged those babies up nice. The gunners were exposed so easy as hell to just spray and at least wound a gunner, and that usually forces the chopper to get out asap to bandage or risk loosing their gunner and if they did lose a man, that left them exposed for tracking so they could go pick up their buddy.

The MI17 though.. that thing is too beastly to be armed, just no matter what you do, the .50's even had trouble going through the glass. No MI17's that are armed pl0x. I would like to only see civilian versions of that whale.

 

And don't get me started on the little bird thing was easy to swat. It was like that annoying fly.

Edited May 17, 2014 by Daemonkid

[Bororm 1156]

They weren't overpowered, the people who complain are people who got their tent or vehicles spotted or whatever, but that's bound to happen regardless.  Either that or they got rocked by a clan, which could also have happened any ways.  But heaven forbid some other people invested more time/effort into getting an advantage over them and that the game isn't about perfectly fair fights.

 

Helicopters are already confirmed, so I'm looking forward to it once again!

[gibonez 3633]

They weren't overpowered, the people who complain are people who got their tent or vehicles spotted or whatever, but that's bound to happen regardless.  Either that or they got rocked by a clan, which could also have happened any ways.  But heaven forbid some other people invested more time/effort into getting an advantage over them and that the game isn't about perfectly fair fights.

 

Helicopters are already confirmed, so I'm looking forward to it once again!

 

Bound to happen sure but it would have taken a player on the ground a good eye and the sheer coincidence to be near the tent or stash.

 

With a helicopter its as simple as flying over the map and seeing tents and stashes as clear as daylight. 

[Bororm 1156]

I'd say that's a problem with tents and not helicopters.

[liquidsnake 275]

One 7.62 shot and the chopper always left in the mod. They're defenceless if they don't know your exact position. In all my hours of playing the mod, I've been killed by a chopper once, and that includes all the "40 choppers" servers. I've seen plenty of them and owned plenty, they're not overpowered. My base was never found by one, because I think it's daft to even consider placing tents all the way up north or west. They were always found there, and not even by choppers. I've found more bases than I can count. On foot.

[chompster 171]

Size of the map also has a lot to do with it. Sure on foot it's fucking huge and takes forever to get anywhere even in a car, but give someone a helicopter that goes 200+ Kmph with nothing in it's way and all that is thrown out the window.

Main issue i'd say is the poor graphical quality at far distances. makes it way too easy to see things.

[gibonez 3633]

I'd say that's a problem with tents and not helicopters.

 

Thats a problem with the rendering engine and the LOD system that is greatly exaggerated when in an aerial vehicle.

 

Helicopters just make the problem more apparent or more obvious.