Anyone else think DayZ should switch engines?

[gorvi 189]

"The standalone engine we are using is a branch of Take on Helicopters, which itself is a branch of ArmA 2 Operation Arrowhead. We chose this because of its stability, ease of development, very achievable optimization, and the fact that our programmers are the architects of the engine - the very people who built it from the ground up over ten years." 

 

That's straight from the bloody devblog. Sorry if I this all changed but wasn't reflected in the game's only official documentation. Was just going by what I'd read. Now go choke on your own over-inflated sense of self-esteem.

 

What you are quoting is from a dev blog from over a year ago.  Since then, the engine has changed hugely from Take On Helicopters.

 

You're failing to see the meaning behind branch and are just repeating what devs said without any understanding.

 

It simply means the branch of real virtuality that Take On used.

 

Even if it is using source code from the Take On branch, its going to be drastically changed even more when the renderer and interface is ripped out.

 

Simply saying its the same engine as Take On or A2:OA leads people to believe its a finalized, outdated engine, and to blame for surface game flaws.  This is why the devs have stopped referring to the engine as such.

 

The core of the engine is RV, with the branch being a completely new entity. 

 

Take On was just the jumping off point.  If DayZ was delayed another year, it would have been on RV4.

[horrorview 56]

What you are quoting is from a dev blog from over a year ago.  Since then, the engine has changed hugely from Take On Helicopters.

 

You're failing to see the meaning behind branch and are just repeating what devs said without any understanding.

 

It simply means the branch of real virtuality that Take On used.

 

Even if it is using source code from the Take On branch, its going to be drastically changed even more when the renderer and interface is ripped out.

 

Simply saying its the same engine as Take On or A2:OA leads people to believe its a finalized, outdated engine, and to blame for surface game flaws.  This is why the devs have stopped referring to the engine as such.

 

The core of the engine is RV, with the branch being a completely new entity. 

 

Take On was just the jumping off point.  If DayZ was delayed another year, it would have been on RV4.

 

Yes, which is EXACTLY WHAT I SAID!

 

Read my post again. The person I was replying to asked "Isn't the TOH engine RV3 like ARMA 2?" 

I then replied telling him what the TOH engine was

 

"It's the engine from Arma 2: OA, and it was modified for Take On Helicopters"

 

Then I go on to say THIS about how said engine has been modified for SA.

 

"DayZ SA, they've changed it up even more, and, as I said in my original post, added middleware (Bullet, etc), and will be swapping out the renderer, so, in the end, it will be a very different engine. Yes, the core of it is RV3, but the myriad fixes/changes are going to alter it drastically."

 

Then, after your "Don't spout bullshit" rage, you go on and type this:

 

"Even if it is using source code from the Take On branch, its going to be drastically changed even more when the renderer and interface is ripped out."

 

Which is exactly what I said in the first place. 

Edited May 27, 2014 by horrorview

[OrLoK 16182]

Hello there

 

You all need to relax a little.

 

Please do so.

 

Rgds

 

LoK

[dallas 5195]

It's from early September 2012.

 

you have just one mistake in OP, the DAYZ standalone will not run on Arma 3 engine but on some kind of Arma 2.5 hybrid version. Who knows if improved light effects will be included.
As per http://dayzdev.tumblr.com/
"The standalone engine we are using is a branch of Take on Helicopters, which itself is a branch of ArmA 2 Operation Arrowhead. We chose this because of its stability, ease of development, very achievable optimization, and the fact that our programmers are the architects of the engine - the very people who built it from the ground up over ten years."

 

So this is from the period before Rocket decided to postpone the release and make major changes to the engine. The Standalone was originally intended to be a slightly undated version of the mod, because everyone, except a few badasses, thought WarZ was a serious competitor. However as they worked towards the December release, they decided that the engine needed to be more than a branch of Take on Helicopters and Operation Arrowhead and as WarZ was revealed to be a complete joke, it made perfect sense to rebuild the engine for the Standalone.

 

This wont be a very different engine in the future, this is indeed already a very different engine. Just because Chernarus still looks like Chernarus, the code below Chernarus is now more near an MMO, than a milsim. You gotta remember, that a lot of people, who worked on ArmA 3 also work on the standalone iteration of the engine. For a long time, it really made no sense to talk in about the standalone as ArmA 2 and a half, Take On Helicopter or ArmA 3.

 

Today the standalone engine is simply the standalone engine. 

Edited May 27, 2014 by Dallas

[horrorview 56]

 

 

 

This is from the second dev blog posted early September 2012.

 

 

 

So this is from the period before Rocket decided to postpone the release and make major changes to the engine. The Standalone was originally intended to be a slightly undated version of the mod, because everyone, except a few badasses, thought WarZ was a serious competitor. However as they worked towards the December release, they decided that the engine needed to be more than a branch of Take on Helicopters and Operation Arrowhead and as WarZ was revealed to be a complete joke, it made perfect sense to rebuild the engine for the Standalone.

 

This wont be a very different engine in the future, this is indeed already a very different engine. Just because Chernarus still looks like Chernarus, the code below Chernarus is now more near an MMO, than a milsim. You gotta remember, that a lot of people, who worked on ArmA 3 also work on the standalone iteration of the engine. For a long time, it really made no sense to talk in about the standalone as ArmA 2 and a half, Take On Helicopter or ArmA 3.

 

Today the standalone engine is simply the standalone engine. 

 

 

I know what you're saying and I'm not arguing with that. I'm not even defending what I said as being RIGHT as, like you say, it's info that's a year-and-a-half old. With Gorvi, however, It's all semantics. His reply dismissed my post as bullshit, but he went on to say everything I said using different words. Yes, the SA engine is now very much its own entity, but TOH is still at its core. My original post was simply answering someone else's question as to whether or not TOH was RV3 like ArmA 2.

Edited May 27, 2014 by horrorview

[St. Jimmy 1631]

http://www.reddit.com/r/dayz/comments/25y1e5/i_just_received_some_incredibly_disappointing/chly4wq

DayZ uses it's own engine. It is just as different from Arma2 as Arma3 is from Arma2. We no longer internally consider DayZ part of the RV engine. Indeed, it is a mix of two engines internally (the other used to make carrier command).

DayZ isn't just RV anymore.

Stop with the arguments. TOH was the base for DayZ. Edited May 27, 2014 by St. Jimmy

[GrumpyFragger 67]

They could ask Wargaming for the source code of their awsum smooth running  WorldofTanks engine... ohwai....

[gorvi 189]

Yes, which is EXACTLY WHAT I SAID!

 

Read my post again. The person I was replying to asked "Isn't the TOH engine RV3 like ARMA 2?" 

I then replied telling him what the TOH engine was

 

"It's the engine from Arma 2: OA, and it was modified for Take On Helicopters"

 

Then I go on to say THIS about how said engine has been modified for SA.

 

"DayZ SA, they've changed it up even more, and, as I said in my original post, added middleware (Bullet, etc), and will be swapping out the renderer, so, in the end, it will be a very different engine. Yes, the core of it is RV3, but the myriad fixes/changes are going to alter it drastically."

 

Then, after your "Don't spout bullshit" rage, you go on and type this:

 

"Even if it is using source code from the Take On branch, its going to be drastically changed even more when the renderer and interface is ripped out."

 

Which is exactly what I said in the first place. 

 

Dude.  You're not explaining anything to anyone.  You never said anything educational in the first place.  Just spewing out abridged versions what devs already said.  Just listing games and expecting people to grasp what the devs have been trying to teach about the engine.  rocket is having the same argument with people over on reddit.  TOH was the starting point only.  Not the current engine.  Go argue with him there since you wont listen to anyone else.

 

This has nothing to do with TOH other than, that is where the source RV engine code was when DayZ standalone started.  TOH branch already had a lot of the A2 core stripped from it, plus some upgrades, which made it the better option for a starting base because less work for programmers.

 

Ill say it again.  If the game was delayed and early access was December of this year, it would have been built from a pre-release RV4.

 

You make it sound like the current engine is the old TOH branch with middleware stuffed into it.

 

That doesn't help anybody worried about an old outdated engine, just reinforces it.

 

To rant even more about it.  The current engine cant even be considered rv3.  its more RV 4.5 as Arma3 is now receiving upgrades from the DayZ branch.

Edited May 27, 2014 by Gorvi

[horrorview 56]

Dude.  You're not explaining anything to anyone.  You never said anything educational in the first place.  Just spewing out abridged versions what devs already said.  Just listing games and expecting people to grasp what the devs have been trying to teach about the engine.  rocket is having the same argument with people over on reddit.  TOH was the starting point only.  Not the current engine.  Go argue with him there since you wont listen to anyone else.

 

This has nothing to do with TOH other than, that is where the source RV engine code was when DayZ standalone started.  TOH branch already had a lot of the A2 core stripped from it, plus some upgrades, which made it the better option for a starting base because less work for programmers.

 

Ill say it again.  If the game was delayed and early access was December of this year, it would have been built from a pre-release RV4.

 

You make it sound like the current engine is the old TOH branch with middleware stuffed into it.

 

That doesn't help anybody worried about an old outdated engine, just reinforces it.

 

To rant even more about it.  The current engine cant even be considered rv3.  its more RV 4.5 as Arma3 is now receiving upgrades from the DayZ branch.

 

How, exactly, is what I'm doing any different than what you're doing? You're just regurgitating information you saw on Reddit, but in a thuggish manner that helps NO ONE. At least I attempted to answer someone's question, and, whether you like how it was phrased or not, it was the correct answer. 

 

And your last line shows you just make things up to serve your argument as Rocket spent the better part of today telling ArmA 3 players not to expect DayZ SA developments to make their way over to that game. Here's a direct quote from him: 

 

"This does really bother me, but I do understand you're not alone with this sentiment. Just because you highlighted something you felt was important, does not mean the developer is magically obligated to provide it. To expect the Arma3 team to do everything DayZ does, as well as everything Arma3 does,... is complete madness.

DayZ can do what it does because we removed functionality, we made it simpler because DayZ's requirements were much more narrow. This allowed us to focus. So to take gains from DayZ and "put" them into Arma3, you would have to drastically slash existing functionality for Arma3. You would destroy many areas of backwards compatibility for the A2 mod for A3, and for other community mods already released."

I'm not going to waste time arguing with you for all you seem to do is type lots of words that say nothing and it's obvious you're as ill-informed as you think I am. 

Edited May 28, 2014 by horrorview

[St. Jimmy 1631]

Arma 3 is taking the guaranteed network messages from DayZ. Arma 3 can get some things like that ported but something like action menu overhaul you couldn't port from DayZ. Arma 3 is also taking the TOH flight model. The engines can have some things shared but it's better us to assume that they can't port things at all between Arma RV and DayZ engine.

[gorvi 189]

How, exactly, is what I'm doing any different than what you're doing? You're just regurgitating information you saw on Reddit, but in a thuggish manner that helps NO ONE. At least I attempted to answer someone's question, and, whether you like how it was phrased or not, it was the correct answer. 

 

And your last line shows you just make things up to serve your argument as Rocket spent the better part of today telling ArmA 3 players not to expect DayZ SA developments to make their way over to that game. Here's a direct quote from him: 

 

"This does really bother me, but I do understand you're not alone with this sentiment. Just because you highlighted something you felt was important, does not mean the developer is magically obligated to provide it. To expect the Arma3 team to do everything DayZ does, as well as everything Arma3 does,... is complete madness.

DayZ can do what it does because we removed functionality, we made it simpler because DayZ's requirements were much more narrow. This allowed us to focus. So to take gains from DayZ and "put" them into Arma3, you would have to drastically slash existing functionality for Arma3. You would destroy many areas of backwards compatibility for the A2 mod for A3, and for other community mods already released."

I'm not going to waste time arguing with you for all you seem to do is type lots of words that say nothing and it's obvious you're as ill-informed as you think I am. 

 

You do know the Big Boy Award Dean received was work on DayZ helping arma 3, right?

 

You are taking what he said drastically out of context to better suit your argument.  Which is what exactly?

 

You believe what you want.  Let alone dev blogs from over a year ago.  Just stop referring to the engine as "TOH plus insert vagueness here."

 

It doesn't help when people think the engine is the problem in the first place.

 

Its a new branch of Real Virtuality.  Final.

[agentneo 337]

I think the Arma 3 engine is a lot better than Arma 2 / Standalone, and would have made a much better base for the game

 

However, the Standalone has already fixed the main thing that makes it worse imo (the aim acceleration) and completely reskinning the characters and inventory look much better (although, these might have come out EVEN better in Arma 3).

So I agree somewhat..But i like the way its gone anyway. I think the vechicles in Arma 3 are far better controlled so will be interesting to see how they handle on Standalone. Also, there are small things in Arma 3 that are very annoying, such as having to un-toggle sprint everytime u aim and move, it should be automatic like.

Finally, the arma 3 signature map Altis.. its probably the best map ever made in Arma..i know a lot of people dislike it. But its so big, and varied. And would easily handle 100+ players. It also handles vechicles and Heli's more because its so big..

Edited May 28, 2014 by AgentNe0

[SomeCallMeNomad (DayZ) 89]

Well now, WOULDN'T YOU LOOK AT THAT: http://www.pcgamer.com/2014/06/13/dayz-is-moving-to-a-new-engine-says-dean-hall/?ns_campaign=article-feed&ns_mchannel=ref&ns_source=steam&ns_linkname=0&ns_fee=0

[St. Jimmy 1631]

Well now, WOULDN'T YOU LOOK AT THAT: http://www.pcgamer.com/2014/06/13/dayz-is-moving-to-a-new-engine-says-dean-hall/?ns_campaign=article-feed&ns_mchannel=ref&ns_source=steam&ns_linkname=0&ns_fee=0

Just to clarify:

They don't just change the engine to a completely another engine and technology. We are already playing a very early version of the new engine  :)

[SomeCallMeNomad (DayZ) 89]

Just to clarify:

They don't just change the engine to a completely another engine and technology. We are already playing a very early version of the new engine  :)

Lol! I cant help but comment on your profile picture xD

[Cap'n (DayZ) 1827]

They work for Bohemia. Bohemia has an engine. It's called Real Virtuality. It's been in active development for fifteen years. That's a long time! They've released several solid titles under the engine. It can support massive terrains, accurately recreated from real world data! 10x10km, 15x15km, 20x20km, even 30x30km. I don't see a lot of other games doing that. Probably engine limitations. The current iteration has PhysX support, dynamic lighting, advanced clouds, and some of the highest fidelity textures in the business. It can support combined operations on the platoon level in multiplayer, and beyond that with AI. It has an incredibly authentic ballistics system that requires you to compensate for bullet drop. Unlike traditional engines that have first person animations, weapons, and arms represented with a separate rig generated by the engine, everything you see in first person happens in third person. Not only does this engine have extensive features, but the RV Engine has some of the highest fidelity graphics in the business. The post-processing in ArmA 2, when released, was too advanced for the majority of cards to run at highest settings above 30 fps.

 

TERRIBLE, RIGHT?

 

 

DayZ Early Access Alpha began life on the Take on Helicopters version of the RV Engine. This was released after ArmA 2, and Operation Arrowhead. Originally, standalone was intended as a basic patch up of the mod into a standalone game for some basic streamlining, much akin to Iron Front 1944. The devs decided to widen their scope, and make it something much more ambitious. A year was spent turning the RV Engine something more suitable for DayZ. This included a complete overhaul of server architecture, which took a lot of work. They have, over time, added significant changes to the RV engine. It has come to a point where it does not really resemble it's original basis, three years ago, as the RV 3.5 engine. Because of these changes, and planned changes currently in development, they have decided to rename the engine to "Infusion". Yes, generic engine name. Whatever they're trying to achieve, I'm not sure. But I trust them with it. Bohemia is a VERY experienced company, who has been around a long time. They have been very generous to what was originally a pet product, and is now sort of their cash cow (in the most sincere way, a good way).

 

They have devoted a lot of work into the current engine. It's still in development. For them to switch down the line, would be a poor, poor decision.

 

Oh- stop bashing RV. It's a great engine.

Edited June 15, 2014 by Cap'n

[Maca (DayZ) 769]

This week's Deanism is... "moving"!

They haven't "moved/or are moving" to a new engine but just unveiled the existing one which they've been going on about for months. It's not finished, but finished enough to finally reveal it's name and to allow them now to put out stuff to patches they have been wanting to do and release.

Brian Hicks @Hicks_206

Some folks need to chillax. We're not folding up shop and starting over on some new engine. Months and months of total overhauls, redesigns, and merging from several engine types are finally getting to the point where we will begin to see the payoffs of the creation of this new animal that is its own engine in itself.

https://twitter.com/Hicks_206

[–]Hicks_206 59 points 3 days ago*

When DayZ started - we took the source from the existing RV Engine - Over the last many months, extensive clean up, new functionality, and so forth has been created for that engine - while at the same time, vast amounts of it were removed, or rewritten entirely. The changes Dean spoke of entail major leaps forward in that work, with those changes and the many more that will come through out development - we have begun to approach the point in which DayZ's engine is so no longer recognizable as RV, and because of that - and the massive work to come, it is now known by its own name, Enfusion

http://www.reddit.com/user/Hicks_206

Enfusion (game engine)

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Infusion is a proprietary computer game engine developed by Bohemia Interactive (BI) based on an amalgamation of Real Virtuality 3 and Enforce

It is used in the DayZ video game.

[acdc_bag 32]

What restrictions are you reffering to?

 

I always thought this engine was one of the most open and easily modable ones iv ever seen :)

 

Ever notice how the mission can't run for more than 4 hours without falling apart?  That's been an issue with RV since its first go around.

[blunce 991]

Correct me if I'm wrong (& I very much mean that, I could be horribly wrong), but now that the DayZ engine has been rewritten & deemed this new "Enfusion" engine, this essentially means that the source code that was supposedly leaked not too long ago is now absolutely useless to anyone that may possess it, no?