Is Dayz still the Anti-game?

[Karmaterror 982]

Ok so from my time on the forums before the SA came out I was of the opinion most players wanted an all together more hardcore experience. But a lot of the additions they are making seem to ditract from that. Here is a list of some of the things that I feel are anti-anti-game....if that makes sense lol...

 

1, The abundance of military buildings.

2, The healthy ststus

3, 1:1 mouse input

 

The amount of mill buildings has more than tripled since the mod, that makes me feel like they are taking a leaf from overwatch's book and trying to make guns readily avalible. The healthy status just robs a huge element from the survival side of things. Anyone remember being badly wounded in the mod.....having no meat left or any food. Then your only option was to hunt or push into a zombie infested town.....even though you had blurry vision and washed out colour. Now with SA its just a case of bypassing that town and waiting to heal over time. Some tweaks like making it take much longer to heal and much harder to obtain could help I think. The 1:1 mouse input to me is just blatent dumming down of the engine to pander to the masses. OK so I get most people want what they are used to....a stupidly fast, gamey style control that while user friendly does nothing to emulate the restrictions a human being has as regards movement.

 

All that being said there are things that keep me hopefull...

 

1, Wind effecting ballistics. This is to me a real anti-game feature. Makes it harder to shoot and maybe even require some research to become accurate.

 

2, Weather effecting your toon. Again brilliant, really adds depth to the survival features.

 

3, Infections. This I feel is a true anti-game feature. Allowing us to die without fault on our part really will drive home what dayz should (to me) be...a brutal unforgiving world where even if you do everything right you can still fail.

 

So what do you think....is dayz still the anti-game? or is it moving towards a more user friendly experience?

[gibonez 3633]

Hopefully it still is.

 

There are alot of things they can add to continue to make it an anti game.

 

1. Completely randomized spawns that can spawn you in a military base or in the middle of the wilderness lost and disoriented.

 

2. ACE style ballistics and sniping + wind mechanics that already confirmed. Eliminating the 100m elevation adjustments would add much needed skill to sniping and eliminate the over abundance of noob snipers seen in the game.

 

3. A stamina/ weight system that punishes you for carrying too much weight and at the same time eliminates the unlimited sprint and thus makes vehicles more important.

[frozenjaws 69]

The 1:1 mouse movement isnt going to last you know, they are going to add Dexterity which depending on your weapon will limit your turn speed. (or well it will limit the turn speed of you weapon, your head should still be instantaneous) so thats already addressed.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

#1. I agree with.  There is way too many military buildings and they could have easily just thrown weapons any where for us to find to test them. 

 

#2. More testing purpose I hope.  Again, I do agree it's far to easy to achieve healthy status

 

#3. I never had an issue with the original mouse movement and I get why people want it.  Quake used it, UT used it, CoD uses it, BF uses it.  Every twitch shooter uses it.  So, make DayZ like every other game.

[Karmaterror 982]

Hopefully it still is.

 

There are alot of things they can add to continue to make it an anti game.

 

1. Completely randomized spawns that can spawn you in a military base or in the middle of the wilderness lost and disoriented.

 

2. ACE style ballistics and sniping + wind mechanics that already confirmed. Eliminating the 100m elevation adjustments would add much needed skill to sniping and eliminate the over abundance of noob snipers seen in the game.

 

3. A stamina/ weight system that punishes you for carrying too much weight and at the same time eliminates the unlimited sprint and thus makes vehicles more important.

 

Agree on all except full random spawns.....but i think we had this chat the other day lol

 

Main 3 reasons against...

 

1, No map flow

2, Scouting an area before going in becomes a little useless

3, For peeps that know the map well enough there wouldn't be much disorientation, just disappointment or glee as to where they spawned :)

 

 

#1. I agree with.  There is way too many military buildings and they could have easily just thrown weapons any where for us to find to test them. 

 

#2. More testing purpose I hope.  Again, I do agree it's far to easy to achieve healthy status

 

#3. I never had an issue with the original mouse movement and I get why people want it.  Quake used it, UT used it, CoD uses it, BF uses it.  Every twitch shooter uses it.  So, make DayZ like every other game.

 

With 3 that's sort of what im getting at. Should the anti-game really make its self like every other. Then loose the anti.....and just becomes another game. Or should it say no! we will strive for authenticity and not cave under pressure :)

[Katana67 2907]

I think people (including myself) don't really know what an anti-game is. Why do we call it an anti-game versus just "unforgiving"?

 

I can't really see the logic in picking a given issue and saying "Wow, this is totally not an anti-game anymore!"

 

Plus it's all relative, Hardcore mode in CoD/BF is pretty effing unforgiving when compared to vanilla CoD/BF. Yet it's not an "anti-game".

Edited April 17, 2014 by Katana67

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

With 3 that's sort of what im getting at. Should the anti-game really make its self like every other. Then loose the anti.....and just becomes another game. Or should it say no! we will strive for authenticity and not cave under pressure :)

I don't want to look at it this way but it seems to be what game companies do now.  Make a kickass game for a few thousand people or make a generic game for millions of people.

Edited April 17, 2014 by Caboose187

[St. Jimmy 1631]

1:1 mouse input is just foundation for better system than the old one. I believe fast 360 turns will be somehow limited. I also hope that other things that you mentioned will be tweaked. But I agree that there are too many military bases and airfields for DayZ.

[NagsterTheGangster 388]

Healthy status definately needs to be adjusted to take a lot longer. The other day me and a friend had like 3 bags of our own blood on us just from Bloodbag>Saline IV>Healthy status then repeat whenever we found a bloodbag... But these things will come in due time.. Just gotta wait for beta release for these features to be tweaked I think....hopefully.

 

Also I agree about the military buildings too... But its also not fair that some asshat and his friends who wait for server restarts should have the only military weapons on the map.. So there definately needs to be a better balance there... If not getting rid of some mill buildings I think that higher populated servers would have the same effect as removing the buildings entirely...

A delicate balance..

[Karmaterror 982]

I think people (including myself) don't really know what an anti-game is. Why do we call it an anti-game versus just "unforgiving"?

 

I can't really see the logic in picking a given issue and saying "Wow, this is totally not an anti-game anymore!"

 

Plus it's all relative, Hardcore mode in CoD/BF is pretty effing unforgiving when compared to vanilla CoD/BF. Yet it's not an "anti-game".

 

Im using the term anti-game in as much as it has no turtorials, no handholding, no objectives, no rules (well very few) ext ext. Maybe your right and what i mean is..."is dayz as unforgiving/difficult as it should be?". Im not trying to pick up one issue that then says "its not an anti-game" its the general trend of how issues are being addressed. It seems more that its leaning towards pleasing the masses than being the harsh unforgiving game it should be.

 

 

I don't want to look at it this way but it seems to be what game companies do now.  Make a kickass game for a few thousand people or make a generic game for millions of people.

 

So sad....but so true :(

[gibonez 3633]

Agree on all except full random spawns.....but i think we had this chat the other day lol

 

Main 3 reasons against...

 

1, No map flow

2, Scouting an area before going in becomes a little useless

3, For peeps that know the map well enough there wouldn't be much disorientation, just disappointment or glee as to where they spawned :)

 

 

 

With 3 that's sort of what im getting at. Should the anti-game really make its self like every other. Then loose the anti.....and just becomes another game. Or should it say no! we will strive for authenticity and not cave under pressure :)

 

 

Isn't that all 3 good reasons.

 

no map flow = more random experience

scouting becomes more useful since people could be in any town

sure but it would make them struggle to find where they are.

[Katana67 2907]

Im using the term anti-game in as much as it has no turtorials, no handholding, no objectives, no rules (well very few) ext ext. Maybe your right and what i mean is..."is dayz as unforgiving/difficult as it should be?". Im not trying to pick up one issue that then says "its not an anti-game" its the general trend of how issues are being addressed. It seems more that its leaning towards pleasing the masses than being the harsh unforgiving game it should be.

 

I mean, it has some handholding (like having menu items and a straightforward crafting system). I just think it's sort of irrelevant to list things like "abundant military buildings," and then somehow assert that the game is losing its way. It's an approach, one that has different ramifications based upon the context (in this case, alpha).

 

I guess I'm asking, where do you draw the line? To which I suspect everyone would have a different answer.

 

While I agree that they went overboard with the military buildings (mostly with regard to Balota), we haven't yet seen how they intend to balance loot (because they haven't attempted to at all). Who knows? Looting could be a much less rewarding prospect once they've ironed out loot distribution.

 

I think it's a bit premature to say the game is somehow turning into something else when we have no "balance" aspects added (which some would assert is the antithesis of an "anti-game", the very concept of balance).

 

The anti-game moniker has been oft used to describe DayZ. And, for one, I'm not sure what it means at all. And second, DayZ is a game. It incorporates artificial aspects of gameplay to create an experience. While it seems clear that the developers are intent on preserving the unforgiving nature of DayZ, it is also clear that they are pragmatists. Certain gameplay mechanics have to be included in order for them to achieve their goals. I think "appealing to a broader audience" is certainly NOT one of their goals, I've seen nothing to suggest that it is.

[nebuuuu 11]

1. Completely randomized spawns that can spawn you in a military base or in the middle of the wilderness lost and disoriented.

yeah, that would be cool. :)

Also i think that there are too many military-buildings and it is too easy to survive atm.

A stamina/ weight system (like someone wrote before) would be awesome. I think there is something like that in a DayZ-Mod.

The mousecontrol from the experimental patch is very good in my opinion. I like it and maybe the team make it a little more realistic and it would be a good mix to play. :-)

DayZ could be more realistic (yes, i know it`s still alpha) and not in the casual-gamer direction (like ex-war z).

So atm i`m very optimistic, because of the aktuall exp-patch and the released roadmap.

greetz

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Am I the only one that actually enjoys the game the way it is?

Hell if they fixed the zombies glitching through walls and added a few more items i'd be content as can be.

I enjoy the game  <_<

[terminal_boy 860]

Am I the only one that actually enjoys the game the way it is?

Hell if they fixed the zombies glitching through walls and added a few more items i'd be content as can be.

 

Add forcing all player clients to render foliage to a sensible distance and I'd agree.

[gibonez 3633]

Am I the only one that actually enjoys the game the way it is?

Hell if they fixed the zombies glitching through walls and added a few more items i'd be content as can be.

 

It's too easy for me at the moment.

 

Everything from the insane 14 mph sprint speed to the lack of a stamina system or even realistic ballistics or realistic sniping.

 

Everything is far too easy and the game suffers from it imo.

[Valadain 270]

Maybe people are using this word in a manner contrary to the definition that would come from the actual words. Anti-Game would mean, decisions on things being put into DayZ would be based on realism or authenticity always, over game-play.

 

That doesn't mean making things "harder", it means making things "real", whatever that might bring.

 

So, on the list indicated, none of those things are particular anti-anti-game.

 

Military buildings really just depend upon the story for what is "real" for the area. Some areas have more, some less, completely up to the developers. Realism isn't impacted by their decision.

 

The healthy status is realistic within the confines of the artificially accelerated mechanics. That is to say, if they made sickness, hunger, and thirst truly realistic, you wouldn't be bothered by them for many, many play sessions. Because they are accelerating these to have them make a real impact in the average play-session, it is fair to also accelerate the natural healing ability of the body to match. That is where authenticity wins over realism, the understanding that you have to work with something less than a true 24 hour cycle as people can't play 24/7

 

The threat to the anti-game are things that include the word "nerf" or "balance". Discussions of purposefully pushing players towards a particular play style are a threat to the anti-game. Making things artificially challenging is a threat to the anti-game. Making things artificially easy is a threat to the anti-game.

 

But at the end of the day, it will be extreme shades of grey as the inherent limitations of technology will force a lot of decisions to be made. A mouse and keyboard will never allow the true complexity of making a bow or fixing an engine. 

[Tomo2000uk 33]

fucking anti game , who wants an anti game. it needs more content and crafting and weapons vehicles etc.

if you want anti game go jerk off with sand paper.

 

Christ you would all be happy with 60 players and one tin of beans between you.

[rickyspanish 158]

Yea it is a little to easy to survive at the minute, the only life threatening thing is other players. I don't think the amount of military buildings is the problem but the loot spawns. I would like to see a lot more choice in where to go but make the good loot extremely rare especially ammo/magazines and of course military weapons.

I really want ammo to be extremely rare and stop spawning in magazines in an attempt to make people conserve it, I have way to much ammo at the minute.

And of course we need a stamina system but we will probably need a way to store the gear instead of carrying everything on your back. And I could definitely live with the running speed being lowered, people move way to fast for malnourished apoc survivors.

I would really love injuries to have more of an impact on your movement to such as limping and being unable to do certain tasks like cutting firewood with injured arms. I was also thinking about the idea of resting but no idea how they'd manage it on a multiplayer game. On PZ if you get ill you stay out of trouble for awhile eat and sleep but its much simpler to do on a sp game.

[Deathlove 2286]

Infections from zombies should be something they put in to make ppl fear the zombies more. I mean i do realize the story revolves around we are the few that were not infected. HOWEVER poor health management and cold immune system down should all play a factor if we get the virus easier or not. That would make ppl want to take better care of there bodies rather than running around gunning ppl all day without worries.

[DMack 60]

DayZ is a GAME.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

DayZ is a GAME.

And games are suppose to be "fun".  Hence how DayZ got dubbed thee "ant-game"  because it's not suppose to be fun.

[Daemonkid 493]

fucking anti game , who wants an anti game. it needs more content and crafting and weapons vehicles etc.

if you want anti game go jerk off with sand paper.

 

Christ you would all be happy with 60 players and one tin of beans between you.

 

 

DayZ is a GAME.

You people are why we can't have a nice, unforgiving gameplay experience. 

I bet you've never played a nethack type game in your life, or any video game that actually made you have to work.

You familiar with the term "Losing is fun?" Probably not.

[rickyspanish 158]

Infections from zombies should be something they put in to make ppl fear the zombies more. I mean i do realize the story revolves around we are the few that were not infected. HOWEVER poor health management and cold immune system down should all play a factor if we get the virus easier or not. That would make ppl want to take better care of there bodies rather than running around gunning ppl all day without worries.

Yea I agree hopefully this will makes its way in and add more risk to dealing with zombies and looting. Would also make treating your wounds quite important and keeping healthy.

fucking anti game , who wants an anti game. it needs more content and crafting and weapons vehicles etc.

if you want anti game go jerk off with sand paper.

Christ you would all be happy with 60 players and one tin of beans between you.

Sounds like N1Z1 will be perfect for all your vehicle and weapon collection needs, you'll probably even be able to build your barbie dream house there...

[Deathlove 2286]

Yea I agree hopefully this will makes its way in and add more risk to dealing with zombies and looting. Would also make treating your wounds quite important and keeping healthy.

Sounds like N1Z1 will be perfect for all your vehicle and weapon collection needs, you'll probably even be able to build your barbie dream house there...

Hey don't bite it till its out and you get to experience it. Even though they might add in some kind of transaction deal with things it still might be a super unforgiving game. If they stick with cosmetic items im all for it.