Can Nothing be done about MetaGaming in Dayz?

[real meatshield 424]

I play on 3pp sometimes when I'm just messing around.

 

As for the attitude of first person players believing themselves to be superior to third person ones, perhaps it's posts of this quality that have encouraged that? :rolleyes:

My post is nothing compared to the vitriol and hate being spewed in that other thread, which is why I havent even looked at it since it was on page 10 or so.

 

I said nothing spiteful or hateful in my post, I just told how it is. I am not saying all 1PP players are like that, but the vast majority of them who posted in that other thread certainly are.

[SmashT 10907]

Yes, but you still have to switch between direct/radio to change without any audio cues. Sometimes you need to double check to make sure you are on the right chat channel. I have used the in game radios as a source of communication with a guy I bumped into, and the flip flop from radio to direct then Toggle or PTT chat was the only sloppy part if communicating with him and new people we encountered. I also hate that icon in the corner lol, if direct was separate and always open it would not be needed since radios would beep when opening/closing a channel.

He'll I wouldn't even care if there was in ingame option to mute yourself, I mainly just want the chat channels separated for ease of communicationg

Personally I use separate mouse buttons for separate channels. You can set them to whatever you want in the control options.

[TheScruffyBandit 382]

1. When you want to get competitive, you'll always have voice comms. 

2. Even if you patch gamma and brightness out, it'll still be available through drivers, hardware, etc.

3. Fucking boggles my mind. If you remove the FoV slider, the people with good aspect ratios and tri-monitor setups will have even more of an advantage.

 

Personally, I think you need to git gud™. There's literally nothing wrong with players getting competitive, it WILL happen.

If someone wants to pay out for a tri-screen setup, they're welcome to their advantage so long as their FoV matches their physical aspect ratio I don't care.

 

However, I'm sick of fish eye'd, binocular visioned players abusing the slider. It's nothing to do with "gitting gud", It's extremely rare a player kills me, death in dayZ comes almost exclusively in the form of glitches for me. The problem is, there needs to be a level of standardization across the board when it comes to FoV and Gamma.

 

If anything, if you need to abuse the gamma and FoV to "be gud" then you really do need to "git gud", because you're relying on a crutch, rather than skill.

Edited April 15, 2014 by TheScruffyBandit

[akafugitive 244]

Personally I use separate mouse buttons for separate channels. You can set them to whatever you want in the control options.

I will have to look into that. I mean don't get me wrong, it's way better then the mod. Atleast I don't have to flip through side, vehicle, group, global, etc. anymore.

Is there a way to make direct detect von?

Edited April 15, 2014 by akafugitive

[hotcakes 348]

If someone wants to pay out for a tri-screen setup, they're welcome to their advantage. I'm sick of fish eye'd, binocular visioned players abusing the slider. It's nothing to do with "gitting gud", It's extremely rare a player kills me, death in dayZ comes almost exclusively in the form of glitches however there needs to be a level of standardization across the board when it comes to FoV and Gamma.

 

If anything, if you need to abuse the gamma and FoV to "be gud" then you really do need to "git gud", because you're relying on a crutch, rather than skill.

 

No. When you cry out and call GAME SETTINGS that should be universal to any game crutches, that's delusion. 

 

I'm on board with fixing game glitches, but trying to burn people for using them or for the use of game settings is pretty dumb. 

 

P.S I bloody hate the term "skill." It has nothing to do with the context of the game, you either get results or you don't. I don't measure group members by player ability, I measure them by results.

Edited April 15, 2014 by hotcakes

[DarkwaveDomina 1099]

there needs to be a level of standardization across the board when it comes to FoV and Gamma

 

I don't see why it shouldn't automatically adjust to your screen or game window if you join a hardcore server, maybe not for the lamecore servers though. Playing fullscreen on a 1080p monitor? You're automatically set to 90 degrees or the equivalent as used by the game engine.

[SmashT 10907]

I will have to look into that. I mean don't get me wrong, it's way better then the mod. Atleast I don't have to flip through side, vehicle, group, global, etc. anymore.

Is there a way to make direct detect von?

There is a bind for VON but I don't know how that relates to separate channels.

[zeroy 240]

To sum up: These problems ruin realism and put legitimate players at a huge disadvantage. 

 

 

This is where the problem with your post starts... everyone can avail of those "exploits" you enumerated so there is no disadvantage. Another important point to note is that those "exploits" are features common to just about any game and for good reason: each PC and Players have different need when it comes to their setup, depending on screen size, resolution, clan membership, etc...

 

It is far quicker to learn to work around these yourself or/and start using them yourself than trying to get them off the game (it will never happen)

Edited April 15, 2014 by zeroy99

[akafugitive 244]

There is a bind for VON but I don't know how that relates to separate channels.

If I can make direct chat detect when I talk then I can key bind the radio channel to a PTT button correct?

[AzrailCross 48]

1. Nothing can be done. We can't control what programs people run in the background unless they interfere with the game (hacks).

 

Technically speaking you CAN you just won't. Because in truth you could just start compiling a list of third party VOIP programs and disable joining servers while they are on in the background, no doubt in my mind battle-eye already checks background processes to hunt for known hacking programs. Personally I think it'd be an awesome route to go, screw the backlash and strive for the immersing experience in full. Would cut it down significantly, but naturally never stop it.. my girlfriend plays in the same room, we look at each other's screens all the time :3 .. and could just use any one of the four computers to start up skype/vent/ect that aren't running DayZ .. still, to me it'd send a message you don't want it going on but rather want the ingame options used and are willing to make every effort possible to make that the primary means of communication. (Won't ever happen.. but I'd thumb up it just for the effort.:P)

 

 

Besides iv heard that you can just change it on graphics card program settings, so there really dosent seem to be a way round it unless something is done at engine level to make it none exploitable.

 

You can, but it won't do the same thing. Raising the brightness/gamma on your TV or Graphics Card won't do the same as raising it in the game, in the game it re-renders what is shown, eg, raise it and something that literally was NOT being rendered such as a desk in the back of the room - that was concealed in darkness - now is being rendered because of the new brightness/gamma setting making it visible: meanwhile on your TV or Graphics card, raising the setting just makes what was already in view (Which by default would only be what's in your flashlight's light, your hands, the flashlight itself and the grass no more than a foot ahead of you.) a unnatura highlight, but does nothing to help you see that person 5 feet away one step to the left of your flashlight.

 

 

-- and lastly on the talk of 3PP in my opinion it's the same I've said in other threads so I won't go into detail.

I'd like to see 3PP have line of sight, and if you do NOT have line of sight it creates a deep shade over what you cannot see so you KNOW you can't see anything in that particular area - including a player or zombie. When you come around the corner a little further, just like someone in 1PP would have to - you take the same risk of getting your head blown off trying to see who's there. I use both options, and I even hate the fact 3PP is such an obvious advantage over anyone playing in 1PP that I find myself playing on 3PP more just to stay on the same playing field and have to adjust my tactics knowing the sniper on that roof - or the person behind the door - can see me even though his character can't and isn't exposed at all.

[[Outcasts]Massacre 121]

To sum up: These problems ruin realism and put legitimate players at a huge disadvantage. 

 

People who use 3th party coms or 3th person view are just as legit as those that don't. Your trying to force your way of playing on other people based on realism??

 

It's a bloody zombie survival game theres nothing realistic about it.

 

And that huge disadvantage is bullshit as well you can just as easily use skype/mumble/ts as anyone.

Edited April 15, 2014 by Massacre

[TheScruffyBandit 382]

No. When you cry out and call GAME SETTINGS that should be universal to any game crutches, that's delusion. 

 

I'm on board with fixing game glitches, but trying to burn people for using them or for the use of game settings is pretty dumb. 

 

P.S I bloody hate the term "skill." It has nothing to do with the context of the game, you either get results or you don't. I don't measure group members by player ability, I measure them by results.

You have a very warped idea of what a good players is.

 

Let me try to explain this for you; who would you consider the better footballer? a player who scored 20 goals in a season, but 5 of those goals came from dubious penalties or a player who scored 20 goals all from open play?

 

Obviously (at least, it seems that way to me) the better player is the one who gets the same results without resorting to foul play and while being a good sportsman.

 

If you can't understand that, then I have nothing else for you but pity and contempt in equal measures.

Edited April 15, 2014 by TheScruffyBandit

[SmashT 10907]

If I can make direct chat detect when I talk then I can key bind the radio channel to a PTT button correct?

Yeh.

[hotcakes 348]

Technically speaking you CAN you just won't. Because in truth you could just start compiling a list of third party VOIP programs and disable joining servers while they are on in the background, no doubt in my mind battle-eye already checks background processes to hunt for known hacking programs. Personally I think it'd be an awesome route to go, screw the backlash and strive for the immersing experience in full. Would cut it down significantly, but naturally never stop it.. my girlfriend plays in the same room, we look at each other's screens all the time :3 .. and could just use any one of the four computers to start up skype/vent/ect that aren't running DayZ .. still, to me it'd send a message you don't want it going on but rather want the ingame options used and are willing to make every effort possible to make that the primary means of communication. (Won't ever happen.. but I'd thumb up it just for the effort. :P)

 

 

 

You can, but it won't do the same thing. Raising the brightness/gamma on your TV or Graphics Card won't do the same as raising it in the game, in the game it re-renders what is shown, eg, raise it and something that literally was NOT being rendered such as a desk in the back of the room - that was concealed in darkness - now is being rendered because of the new brightness/gamma setting making it visible: meanwhile on your TV or Graphics card, raising the setting just makes what was already in view (Which by default would only be what's in your flashlight's light, your hands, the flashlight itself and the grass no more than a foot ahead of you.) a unnatura highlight, but does nothing to help you see that person 5 feet away one step to the left of your flashlight.

 

 

-- and lastly on the talk of 3PP in my opinion it's the same I've said in other threads so I won't go into detail.

I'd like to see 3PP have line of sight, and if you do NOT have line of sight it creates a deep shade over what you cannot see so you KNOW you can't see anything in that particular area - including a player or zombie. When you come around the corner a little further, just like someone in 1PP would have to - you take the same risk of getting your head blown off trying to see who's there. I use both options, and I even hate the fact 3PP is such an obvious advantage over anyone playing in 1PP that I find myself playing on 3PP more just to stay on the same playing field and have to adjust my tactics knowing the sniper on that roof - or the person behind the door - can see me even though his character can't and isn't exposed at all.

 

That's not how it works. The entire point of gamma is to decrease the differential between bright and dark areas. 

 

If you do it from your drivers, there's not much of a difference.

[hotcakes 348]

You have a very warped idea of what a good players is.

 

Let me try to explain this for you; who would you consider the better footballer? a player who scored 20 goals in a season, but 5 of those goals came from dubious penalties or a player who scored 20 goals all from open play?

 

Obviously (at least, it seems that way to me) the better player is the one who gets the same results without resorting to foul play and while being a good sportsman.

 

If you can't understand that, then I have nothing else for you but pity and contempt in equal measures.

 

I come a particular competitive game where the only way to go higher was to master the engine's quirks and glitches. There was no helping it, everyone used the glitches because the devs didn't fix them. 

 

If you refuse to use the game to the fullest, you are some sort of apologist. Who are you apologizing to? The only people that judge you are other players, and that's who you're trying to beat.

[AzrailCross 48]

That's not how it works. The entire point of gamma is to decrease the differential between bright and dark areas. 

 

If you do it from your drivers, there's not much of a difference.

 

Try it.. 

 

Raise your brightness and gamma in game, you'll see all the way ten miles out to the tree lines, every person on the roads will be easily visible, every zombie easily noticed moving, some points are harder to see such as small items, but the setting ups how much is visible drastically.

 

Try it on your TV, you'll see nothing but bright BLACKNESS. Same with your graphics card. :3 Not remotely the same, you won't see the people miles out, you won't see anything really; not without a flash light.

 

Unless my couple week break has drastically seen changes to the way gamma and brightness work in game - this still functions in a way it really shouldn't. 

So while I could be wrong, I doubt it.

Edited April 15, 2014 by AzrailCross

[TheScruffyBandit 382]

I come a particular competitive game where the only way to go higher was to master the engine's quirks and glitches. There was no helping it, everyone used the glitches because the devs didn't fix them. 

 

If you refuse to use the game to the fullest, you are some sort of apologist. Who are you apologizing to? The only people that judge you are other players, and that's who you're trying to beat.

No, I'm someone who cares about fair play. I'm sorry you don't feel the same way.

[hotcakes 348]

Try it.. 

 

Raise your brightness and gamma in game, you'll see all the way ten miles out to the tree lines.

Try it on your TV, you'll see nothing but bright BLACKNESS. Same with your graphics card. :3

 

Unless my couple week break has drastically seen changes to the way gamma and brightness work in game - this still functions in a way it really shouldn't. 

So while I could be wrong, I doubt it.

 

Here's gamma done properly:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5agv12qjpjo

 

 

No, I'm someone who cares about fair play. I'm sorry you don't feel the same way.

 

 

I'm all for fairness too, but I'm less for bitching about game settings and things that are clearly legitimate.

Edited April 15, 2014 by hotcakes

[AzrailCross 48]

Here's gamma done properly:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5agv12qjpjo

 

 

 

 

I'm all for fair too, but I'm less for bitching about game settings and things that are clearly legitimate.

 

... gamma done properly? I'm talking about DayZ here, not RUST and that is NOT gamma done properly.

 

Gamma in game in DayZ is NOT done properly. It's a known issue that it destroys night and is being worked on. When they fix it, your TV and Graphics card settings won't be able to 'get around' nighttime if it's done properly, quite literally limiting what's rendered if it's not in light or via other methods. (it can't even do it now to my knowledge, but even if it can - it can and will be shut down in time if they know what's good for the game, who the hell WANTS to go in and change brightness and gamma settings everytime it's night? How does that even make sense? While it's here, fine, use it, but it needs to go.) 

 

It's the in game setting in DayZ that needs work in the way it handles brightness and gamma, no getting around that. Hell, a brief search even came up with mention of one of Rust's Dev's wanting to put a stop to the self made gamma night-vision and other gamma hacks.

Edited April 15, 2014 by AzrailCross

[Accolyte 1727]

I don't see a downside of locking in-game proximity chat open. I really don't.

 

While implementing an "always on" chat would be fairly simple, you are not thinking beyond that. What would this do to bandwith? What would this do to servers? This would cause a LOT of issues which would have to be solved on programming level and trust me.. a programmer's time is expensive. Very, very expensive. The QA time would probably add up as well.

 

Technically speaking you CAN you just won't. Because in truth you could just start compiling a list of third party VOIP programs and disable joining servers while they are on in the background, no doubt in my mind battle-eye already checks background processes to hunt for known hacking programs.

 

I'm not entirely sure you're correct on this. I'm not at liberty to explain why, but I don't believe it's as simple as you think.

[Grimey Rick 3417]

1. You will always have 3rd party comms, no matter the game. Any program that you would have to use that would shut them down to play the game would cause so much backlash it wouldn't be worth it.

2. They have already adjusted the gamma/brightness issue- you now can't use it to see in full darkness.

3. That's up to the devs- they will change it if they see it used as abuse on their end, but right now they obviously don't.

 

You never could see in pitch black when the moon isn't out. The gamma "exploit" only works when there is already a source of light that you can exaggerate by maximizing your settings.

 

1. Nothing can be done. We can't control what programs people run in the background unless they interfere with the game (hacks).

2. Night will be worked on further.

3. We are exploring ways of dealing with this. In the meantime, I would suggest playing on hardcore servers.

 

You can still peek through walls in Hardcore too, sometimes more easily than when in 3PP. I'm glad to hear it's still an active issue with development, though.

 

As far as third-party VoIP programs, deal with it. This has been beaten to death and they're not going anywhere. If they disabled VoIP programs from being run while in DayZ, my wife and I would still be able to communicate with one another as we're in the same room. What's next, forcing me to renovate my house and provide pictures of said renovation before I can accept DayZ's EULA? Let's not forget that Steam also has a built-in VoIP program that is arguably just as good as Skype.

[gacsibeni 5]

1. There is no way around it.
2. Is solved.
3. I don't really care about it, I like TPS vision, you and your enemy both have this advantage. I like realism but I wouldn't enjoy the game in FPS.

[pillock 850]

While implementing an "always on" chat would be fairly simple, you are not thinking beyond that. What would this do to bandwith? What would this do to servers? This would cause a LOT of issues which would have to be solved on programming level and trust me.. a programmer's time is expensive. Very, very expensive. The QA time would probably add up as well.

 

Fair enough. I wasn't thinking beyond that for the simple reason that I don't have the technical knowledge to do so! But you are the first person to give a legitimate reason as to why it would not be preferable. "People could get around it" is not a legitimate reason.

[gibonez 3633]

Gamma exploit could surely eventually be fixed. It is not a problem in Arma 3.

 

Third party comms can be fixed by somehow mirroring what is said on the mic at all times in game and disabling push to talk.

Or outright disallowing teamspeak or mumble or any of the 3rd party voip programs to be running at the same time as dayz .

 

Fov exploit can be fixed by a 4th wall mod and locking in the fov settings to one setting when aiming your gun so FOV does not affect perceived magnification.

[Snowball (DayZ) 115]

 

That's what I'm referring to, yeah. I'm not a fan of 3pp anyway and I do still consider using the camera angle to view around a corner or over walls abuse, but obviously much more minor abuse than using the lean and camera positioning to see through solid walls.

Yeah I can agree with you on that. That's just plain glitch exploit.

I've seen people do this in a couple of dayz vids, but don't they actually "get out of the wall" for a split second? So people can shoot them "through the wall" so to say? I know it's not really solving the problem but it would be at least a way to punish the glitchers.