Can Nothing be done about MetaGaming in Dayz?

[akafugitive 244]

Good to see a member of staff responding to you here, the only point i would like to add about 3rd party comms is, not everyone uses them to get an advantage in game. For example me and my lass use steam to chat all the time in and out of game, would be sucky for people like us for one having the game shut down our comms, we dont use it as an advantage over others either because we are the type who just want to be left alone. :) . But i can understand from the facing off against goon squads perspective of course, as you would hear them talking as they circled around you etc in reality.

I totally take advantage of them in game lol, I just don't mean to. I talk with my friends on steam because I'm not that RP crazy that I feel like searching the map to find them or not be able to talk when we separate for a bit.

[gorvi 189]

I worry more about foreknowledge metagaming

[pillock 850]

I don't see a downside of locking in-game proximity chat open. I really don't.

 

If you're using 3rd party software for your comms, then you still can - it's just that people in your close proximity in game will also hear you. This makes the game fairer and more realistic. And what's wrong with that?

 

If you want to maintain a private, outside-of-game conversation, you could mute the in-game comms altogether by selecting a different input device in the settings to the one you're using for your 3rd-party software - but you'd lose the ability to use in-game direct chat at all if you do this, and that'd be your choice. You could still use the text chat, though.

Edited April 15, 2014 by Pillock

[Karmaterror 982]

I worry more about foreknowledge metagaming

 

Wouldn't that just be......experience lol

[DarkwaveDomina 1099]

I don't see a downside of locking in-game proximity chat open. I really don't.

 

It's wasting developer time on something people can and will circumvent within 5 seconds just by messing with their sound settings.

[akafugitive 244]

Why does 3PP have to always be a crutch, in the eyes of the hardcore elitists? Maybe we, the scrub noobs playing 3PP, happen to like to see our environment from a different perspective? Maybe we don't want to play a pseudo-RPG from a 1PP perspective? Maybe we just happen to like the way we play in 3rd person, on 3rd person servers, that have absolutely NO EFFECT WHATSOEVER on how those who wish to play in first person servers, enjoy their own experience?

Why is it that the incessant bitching and moaning about 3PP by 1PP players, has no counterpart from 3PP players over 1PP servers?

 

I have been playing first person shooters since DOOM and RTCW. Probably 90% of my gaming life has been in FPSes. I do not consider this game to be an FPS despite the fact it offers 1PP. Do I care that there are people who want to play it in 1PP? Hell no. Doesn't affect my gameplay one bit, which is why I fail to grasp how those of us who choose to play 3PP seem to generate such animosity from the 1PP crowd.

 

3PP needs absolutely no adjustment at all- the only adjustment needed is that of the attitudes of 1PP players who think they are above the rest of us. Trust me kids, your shit still stinks like shit. You ain't any better, you just choose to play a different way. Get over yourselves.

I don't think the problem comes from hardcore players. I play hardcore and haven't heard a single person care about what goes on with regular servers since we don't have to deal with it. I think the issue actually comes from people who want to see their character in 3rd without the combat downfalls of encountering someone over using it to disadvantage others.

[TheScruffyBandit 382]

I still think the best solution to third party comms is to give people a viable in game option to use. If players could find throat microphones and earpieces fairly commonly at airfields and military bases, they'd at least have the option to use those if they preferred and would let those of us more inclined towards roleplay enjoy the game without being at a major disadvantage once geared.

[SmashT 10907]

What about locking it open purely for the other reasons I stated? Not even as a combatant for exploiting. I even want to heard radio beeps then I hit the PTT button

I mean forced open global chat would be insanely obnoxious, but direct chat is just another ingame sound that has a radius of effect

 

It's effectively unenforceable, most people use push to talk anyway so would just set their mic to be muted until that key is pushed. Outcome is exactly the same as we have now.

[gorvi 189]

Wouldn't that just be......experience lol

 

It would, but that doesn't translate well into a fresh spawn who wouldn't know any better.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metagaming_%28role-playing_games%29

[Karmaterror 982]

It would, but that doesn't translate well into a fresh spawn who wouldn't know any better.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metagaming_%28role-playing_games%29

 

I see what you mean and while I do agree, I don't see any way to combat that. No other game can either. If I look at l4d as an example, every time I start I should have no idea which way to run, which turns to take or any of the shortcuts. But experience allows me to know that. Bar an elaborate brainwashing program after death, its just a given of gaming in general.

 

I guess in one way or another we are all meta gamers. Even not knowing were doing it. At least with the loot being random it restricts it. Sure you know where your best chances of finding X piece of gear are best....but you can never be sure. I guess that's the best and only way dayz can combat that :)

[akafugitive 244]

It's effectively unenforceable, most people use push to talk anyway so would just set their mic to be muted until that key is pushed. Outcome is exactly the same as we have now.

I mean for not having to cycle channels, see the icon in the corner or having to use PTT to open direct chat. PTT would be linked to radio comms only, direct would happen just by speaking. No need to enforce anything since the purpose is for ease of ingame communication making it easier, not to combat 3rd party chat.

If someone wants to put dayz on a separate mic channel, so be it. They will be able to chat with their buddies but not in the game world without a second mic, that could be their downfall.

[pillock 850]

It's effectively unenforceable, most people use push to talk anyway so would just set their mic to be muted until that key is pushed. Outcome is exactly the same as we have now.

 

The idea is to remove the option for push-to-talk for DayZ's direct chat. You either have it locked always on, or locked off because you've disabled it. And you take your choice.

 

I think it'd be better.

[TheScruffyBandit 382]

The idea is to remove the option for push-to-talk for DayZ's direct chat. You either have it locked always on, or locked off because you've disabled it. And you take your choice.

 

I think it'd be better.

Till everyone locks it off and KoS gets even worse than it already is. :rolleyes:

 

Edit: You're not a double agent trying to sabotage this game before H1Z1 launches? Someone check to see if he's posting from a domain owned by SOE.

Edited April 15, 2014 by TheScruffyBandit

[p4triot 207]

3. FoV should only be adjustable once before starting the game, and not be there to access once in the game.

 

As for 3pp exploits of wall/corner looking or popping there head through a wall

If everyone can do it,it is really not a big deal IMHO things are only a problem when only one can do something and others can not

There already IS a solution for this...Play On HardCore Servers if you DO NOT like 3PP!

 

I can not understand why some people seem to feel the need to make everyone have to play HC and nobody should be allowed 3pp view

not everyone is into running around with tunnel vision throughout there whole game play,to each ther own and that is why there are Regular servers and Hardcore servers!

Always the HC guys wanting everyone else to have to be HC also,you do not like 3pp then play hardcore...simple!

 

- Since this wouldn't do for the gamma, because players will go out when night falls, change gamma, go in and problem solved for the next 6 hours, its much more useful when it comes to FoV since those who exploit it surely are changing it every minut or so depending on the situation. I dont think most of them would endure having to logout and login all the time xD So, good idea imho.

 

I like 3rd person, I like viewing my own character but I DONT LIKE people seeing me (or me seeing them) when Im not supposed to. Those who only like 1st person are already playing HC and dont give a shit about this issue anymore. Problem is with the rest of us who enjoys looking at our character, clothes, movements and animations but then have to put up with a game breaking wallhack problem. So we politely ask for a solution. The question here is not if 3pp-wallers-yes/3pp-wallers-no, the only question here is "which solution we use" and "how many resources will take", because I dont think anyone could defend wallers as a legit way given the realistic nature of the game.

 

Not that Im saying is not fair, it is fair since we all use it. But the problem doesnt go away just because we all beneficiate from it. See this, if we all had god mode that would also be fair, doesn't it? but would you play a game like that? specially if its intended to be realistic?

Edited April 15, 2014 by p4triot

[DarkwaveDomina 1099]

The idea is to remove the option for push-to-talk for DayZ's direct chat. You either have it locked always on, or locked off because you've disabled it. And you take your choice.

 

I think it'd be better.

 

You can use third-party Windows applications to simulate PTT or mute, I used to use one myself when my friends and I still used Steam for voice comms because it didn't have a push-to-mute function. You can also use Windows applications to block certain applications from receiving microphone input.

You guys are obsessing over something that literally cannot be enforced, why not take a look at my suggestions in post #48 instead? I feel they would at least encourage a lot more players to use the direct communication system within DayZ.

[p4triot 207]

Setting your FoV extremely wide when playing normally, to prevent people sneaking up on you.

 

Setting your FoV extremely narrow when sniping, to provide additional magnification.

 

- And thats an exploit??? one of the worst things when playing videogames is the lack of pheripheral vision xD

 

- Dont know about that magnification, I will try and see.

[Mr Sinister 167]

I totally take advantage of them in game lol, I just don't mean to. I talk with my friends on steam because I'm not that RP crazy that I feel like searching the map to find them or not be able to talk when we separate for a bit.

lol, i just dont think people would appreciate hearing me (should i live longer than 5 secs in ear shot of anyone for once lol) telling my lass how my day has been, what i had for tea, or apologizing for not having a shave when i go over :D, and yeah, stuff that would make some peoples hair stand on end, :D. If it came to it though i think we could understand if the developers did somthing to stop 3rd party comms but i seriously doubt they will.  

[SmashT 10907]

The idea is to remove the option for push-to-talk for DayZ's direct chat. You either have it locked always on, or locked off because you've disabled it. And you take your choice.

 

I think it'd be better.

 

So I set my direct chat to always on, then my headset to mute and have a mouse button push to unmute, effectively the exact same outcome as we have now so I don't really see the point, I don't need to make a choice.

 

 

I mean for not having to cycle channels, see the icon in the corner or having to use PTT to open direct chat. PTT would be linked to radio comms only, direct would happen just by speaking. No need to enforce anything since the purpose is for ease of ingame communication making it easier, not to combat 3rd party chat.

If someone wants to put dayz on a separate mic channel, so be it. They will be able to chat with their buddies but not in the game world without a second mic, that could be their downfall.

 

You don't need a second mic to accomplish that, it's very trivial to do with one regardless of how the game has tried to enforce it and if the goal is not to combat third party coms (I'm pretty sure that is the ops idea) then doesn't the game already allow open mics for those that want it by simply double tapping capslock and your mic will stay on for as long as you want?

[TheScruffyBandit 382]

As for 3pp exploits of wall/corner looking or popping there head through a wall

If everyone can do it,it is really not a big deal IMHO things are only a problem when only one can do something and others can not

There already IS a solution for this...Play On HardCore Servers if you DO NOT like 3PP!

3pp and wall glitching aren't the same thing, but when it comes to glitching the walls to turn them invisible:

 

Just because everyone COULD cheat, doesn't mean they will or should. I'd prefer you didn't project your guilt onto me or the others in this thread.

When it comes to clipping your camera into a wall to turn that wall invisible, that's exploitation of a glitch and I'm sure any fair minded person would consider it cheating. 

 

Some of us understand sportsmanship. B)

Edited April 15, 2014 by TheScruffyBandit

[gorvi 189]

I see what you mean and while I do agree, I don't see any way to combat that. No other game can either. If I look at l4d as an example, every time I start I should have no idea which way to run, which turns to take or any of the shortcuts. But experience allows me to know that. Bar an elaborate brainwashing program after death, its just a given of gaming in general.

 

I guess in one way or another we are all meta gamers. Even not knowing were doing it. At least with the loot being random it restricts it. Sure you know where your best chances of finding X piece of gear are best....but you can never be sure. I guess that's the best and only way dayz can combat that :)

 

Actually the passive stats going to be added are a good way to combat it.  crafting will be another.  When it comes to players knowing where they are, that will have to be taken with a grain of salt, and just assume because the players character grew up in the area.

 

I suggested some books being used to to help craft better quality items.  Nothing too restricting or extensive.  A hunting book would slowly teach the player how to build a slightly better bow where a fresh character would build a worse one. 

 

Would help the value of books since they are soon going to be burnable.

 

I hope Loot 2.0 might switch around static spawning locations.

Edited April 15, 2014 by Gorvi

[real meatshield 424]

I don't think the problem comes from hardcore players. I play hardcore and haven't heard a single person care about what goes on with regular servers since we don't have to deal with it. I think the issue actually comes from people who want to see their character in 3rd without the combat downfalls of encountering someone over using it to disadvantage others.

It is certainly from hardcore players. Maybe not you, but go look in the thread about the 4th wall mod, or in any other thread on this or any other forum, that discusses 3PP servers and how "everyone" thinks its a hack/glitch/cheat/exploit. When I say everyone, I mean those who play 1PP exclusively, yet still feel the need to belittle and deride anyone who plays 3PP despite NOT playing on 3PP servers at all.

 

If a player chooses to play in 1PP on a regular server, they are automatically putting themselves at a known disadvantage over the rest of the players in the server who are using 3PP. Thats fine, I understand that. What I don't understand is why someone who wishes to play in 1PP, would ever bother to join a server running regular mode. The answer they usually give is that there are very few HC servers out there that are, and remain, populated. 

 

Infer from that what you will. I see it as though the game is generally far more appealing and fun to play to the masses in 3PP than it is in 1PP,

 

If you insist on a first person gameplay experience, then get used to playing on low pop servers. Don't force me to inhibit my own experience by a mod that forcibly disables the full 3rd person perspective, just so you can join my server and play in first person. Doing that is giving the 1PP player a crutch so they can play on 3PP servers, while at the same time forcibly removing a key gameplay element of the 3PP server- an element that ALL 3PP players can make use and take advantage of otherwise, thereby ensuring a level playing field among all players on the server.

[DarkwaveDomina 1099]

Infer from that what you will. I see it as though the game is generally far more appealing and fun to play to the masses in 3PP than it is in 1PP,

 

I don't refer to 3PP as cheating, not specifically, but the reason it's more appealing is because people follow the path of least resistance. Now, I don't care if someone prefers to play in 3PP, but if those same people turn around and start going on about how they love DayZ because it's a hardcore realism game they're going to get a mouthful from me for leaving hardcore servers deserted.

[TheScruffyBandit 382]

It is certainly from hardcore players. Maybe not you, but go look in the thread about the 4th wall mod, or in any other thread on this or any other forum, that discusses 3PP servers and how "everyone" thinks its a hack/glitch/cheat/exploit. When I say everyone, I mean those who play 1PP exclusively, yet still feel the need to belittle and deride anyone who plays 3PP despite NOT playing on 3PP servers at all.

 

If a player chooses to play in 1PP on a regular server, they are automatically putting themselves at a known disadvantage over the rest of the players in the server who are using 3PP. Thats fine, I understand that. What I don't understand is why someone who wishes to play in 1PP, would ever bother to join a server running regular mode. The answer they usually give is that there are very few HC servers out there that are, and remain, populated. 

 

Infer from that what you will. I see it as though the game is generally far more appealing and fun to play to the masses in 3PP than it is in 1PP,

 

If you insist on a first person gameplay experience, then get used to playing on low pop servers. Don't force me to inhibit my own experience by a mod that forcibly disables the full 3rd person perspective, just so you can join my server and play in first person. Doing that is giving the 1PP player a crutch so they can play on 3PP servers, while at the same time forcibly removing a key gameplay element of the 3PP server- an element that ALL 3PP players can make use and take advantage of otherwise, thereby ensuring a level playing field among all players on the server.

I play on 3pp sometimes when I'm just messing around.

 

As for the attitude of first person players believing themselves to be superior to third person ones, perhaps it's posts of this quality that have encouraged that? :rolleyes: 

[akafugitive 244]

So I set my direct chat to always on, then my headset to mute and have a mouse button push to unmute, effectively the exact same outcome as we have now so I don't really see the point, I don't need to make a choice.

You don't need a second mic to accomplish that, it's very trivial to do with one regardless of how the game has tried to enforce it and if the goal is not to combat third part chat then doesn't the game already allows open mics for those that want it by simply double tapping capslock and your mic will stay on for as long as you want?

Yes, but you still have to switch between direct/radio to change without any audio cues. Sometimes you need to double check to make sure you are on the right chat channel. I have used the in game radios as a source of communication with a guy I bumped into, and the flip flop from radio to direct then Toggle or PTT chat was the only sloppy part if communicating with him and new people we encountered. I also hate that icon in the corner lol, if direct was separate and always open it would not be needed since radios would beep when opening/closing a channel.

Hell I wouldn't even care if there was in ingame option to mute yourself(make that be the icon lol), I mainly just want the chat channels separated for ease of communicationg

Edited April 15, 2014 by akafugitive

[hotcakes 348]

1. When you want to get competitive, you'll always have voice comms. 

2. Even if you patch gamma and brightness out, it'll still be available through drivers, hardware, etc.

3. Fucking boggles my mind. If you remove the FoV slider, the people with good aspect ratios and tri-monitor setups will have even more of an advantage.

 

Personally, I think you need to git gud™. There's literally nothing wrong with players getting competitive, it WILL happen.