M4A1 Firepower?

[MarchmelloMan 16]

Hey guys,

 

I just shot a guy with my M4, and I recognized that "phenomenon" before: I need WAY more than 2 hits to kill him. I stood right next to him and I literally saw the blood sprinkling out of him with every shot and i unloaded at least 5-10 shots on him until he fell on the floor.. I guess he was distracted or sth, cause if he reacted quickly enough he could as well have shot me down before I got him killed even though I had all advantages on my side (and surprised him more or less).

 

Stood ~1-3 metres next to him and shot with the white spot, not zoomed.. though I saw the blood with every shot. How is that possible? Or does the M4 really need that many hits?

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Hey guys,

 

I just shot a guy with my M4, and I recognized that "phenomenon" before: I need WAY more than 2 hits to kill him. I stood right next to him and I literally saw the blood sprinkling out of him with every shot and i unloaded at least 5-10 shots on him until he fell on the floor.. I guess he was distracted or sth, cause if he reacted quickly enough he could as well have shot me down before I got him killed even though I had all advantages on my side (and surprised him more or less).

 

Stood ~1-3 metres next to him and shot with the white spot, not zoomed.. though I saw the blood with every shot. How is that possible? Or does the M4 really need that many hits?

Was he fully geared?  I believe items on your person take a good brunt of the damage before it starts hitting/hurting the player

[DNY 41]

Was he fully geared?  I believe items on your person take a good brunt of the damage before it starts hitting/hurting the player

 

This ! ^^

Edited April 5, 2014 by DNY

[fig0451 85]

Also desync.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Also desync.

Ya, that does suck.  Shoot a guy only to have him turn around and fire back..... then he dies after   >:(

 

No wait, it was hacks!!!!!

Edited April 5, 2014 by Caboose187

[res 373]

Desync is the problem most of the times, I just aim at the chest and neck, and shoot 3-5 rounds at a time, watching the enemy's condition really quickly between the fire bursts. Usually they die on the first or second time I shoot them, because with the recoil one of the bullets hits the target's head or he just dies from the number of rounds to the chest.

 

The Mosin's firepower is what worries me. 

 

I managed to kill a guy who had a Mosin when I had no gun, he shot me 2 times, in an extremely short distance, one of the bullets broke my leg, but I was STILL ALIVE with almost no gear after two 7,62x54 impacts, so he got his baseball bat to finish me off, me, while bleeding I got on my knees in a crouching position and while I got hit IN that condition a couple times, I MANAGED TO KILL THE FUCKER WITH A FARMING HOE WHILE ON MY KNEES, WITH MY LEGS BROKEN, BLEEDING, AFTER BEING SHOT 2 TIMES WITH A MOSIN, AND HIT WITH BASEBALL BAT AFTERWARDS.

 

Edit: BTW, that character is still alive, stuck in the goddamn hospital with legs broken.

 

That's pure realism.

 

But, really, I remember getting 1 hit kills some patches ago with the Mosin, what the hell happened?

Edited April 5, 2014 by Res

[FedExMan 24]

Bring a shotgun close quarters I shot a player 4 times yesterday with a M4 he had time enough to squeeze his trigger I instantly died he was dead before I hit the ground teammate finished him off.

Edited April 5, 2014 by FedExMan

[Steak and Potatoes 13480]

Summon gews, we need some weapon information.

[DropBearChick 1217]

If your healthy you can take a few more shots maybe that was it

[Grimey Rick 3417]

I generally see people go down in 2-4 shots. I think the M4A1 is fine; it's the best gun available in its current implementation (as it should be).

[TheScruffyBandit 382]

I generally see people go down in 2-4 shots. I think the M4A1 is fine; it's the best gun available in its current implementation (as it should be).

I personally prefer the SKS and Mosin honestly, But then I play with two people who heavy lean towards the M4, so as a group we make a fairly balanced fire team.

[Grimey Rick 3417]

I personally prefer the SKS and Mosin honestly, But then I play with two people who heavy lean towards the M4, so as a group we make a fairly balanced fire team.

 

I also prefer the SKS and Mosin. I find they fit the environment a lot better, and in the right person's hands can be just as effective. The M4A1, when fully kitted, is very versatile and good for every situation except long range. Defending buildings, storming buildings, picking people off mid-range, being able to spray an area to cover a buddy moving across a doorway, etc. I'll take a Mosin every time, though. ;3

[enforcer1975 1111]

If your healthy you can take a few more shots maybe that was it

 

Every person is healthy until hit by a projectile...i'd like show you a pic of a 5.56x45 gunshot wound on a thigh but it would be too graphic...here's the x-ray instead...the bone was fractured but it's rumored it wasn't hit directly. They mention the shot was taken from about 45-50m distance. The tiny bits are bullet and bone fragments, it's a miracle the artery wasn't ruptured. This is for people who think shooting someone in game or in movies just puts a hole a lot of pain into the victim...Talk about healthy... LOL

 

 

Edit: Found the statement of the doc who handled the case.

 

Hi guys! I'm the orthopedic surgeon who handled this case, and these are the facts:

Victim was shot with a 20-inch barreled M16A1 at 5-10 meters distance by cop. Victim claims a deliberate shot, cop claims an accident. Whatever.

Spent brass casing brought in by investigating cops show the headstamp "WCC 76".

Remaining 24 rounds of ammo in magazine showed all to be headstamped either "WCC 76" or "WCC 77".

Based on x-rays taken, IMHO the bullet did NOT hit the femur. These cases are fairly common here, since our cops use M16s and m193 ammo exclusively. Had the bullet hit the femur, the fracture pattern would be very different, would exhibit severe comminution usually for a length of up to 2 to 4 inches of the bone. Methinks the temporary cavitation was strong enough to break the femur by itself. We KNOW how a bone that is hit squarely by a high-velocity bullet looks like.

The fragments you see in the xrays are all metallic, as the whiteness is much greater than that of the bone. Bullet fragments could be seen ON the wound itself, as silvery specks. The xrays show fragments on one side only of the thigh, which makes me think that the bullet fragmented after @ 4 inches of penetration.

The pics you see of the wound shows it as it arrived in the E.R.. NO manipulation of the wound was done prior to the picture-taking. No probing, no extension of the wound. Wound is as seen when victim arrived.

On surgery, empty cavity in the anterior thigh was around 4x4 inches wide. Leg was saved, since the neurovascular structures were not hit, though thigh circumference was much narrower post-op, as alot of devitalized muscle had to be removed.

Wounds this severe on the extremities are seen fairly commonly here, and when we see one like this, we immediately thinks " ah, another m16 hit...", and invariably, we are correct. Torso hits usually result in victims dead as they arrive in the E.R., or die soon after. Autopsies invariably reveal large cavities when bullets fragmented, especially when the liver, intestines, and muscle are hit.

I was able to request one cartridge from the magazine involved, and chronographed it at the range. M.V. was 3227 fps 10 feet from the muzzle.

Our cops and soldiers have the highest regard for this ammo, be it headstamped WCC, RPA, and BMP ( the last two being the locally manufactured M193).

Even being more than 30 years old, those WCC ammo keeps on rockin'. Based on the cases I have seen, I am not surprised.

Edited April 6, 2014 by Enforcer

[liquidsnake 275]

Desync is the problem most of the times, I just aim at the chest and neck, and shoot 3-5 rounds at a time, watching the enemy's condition really quickly between the fire bursts. Usually they die on the first or second time I shoot them, because with the recoil one of the bullets hits the target's head or he just dies from the number of rounds to the chest.

 

The Mosin's firepower is what worries me. 

 

I managed to kill a guy who had a Mosin when I had no gun, he shot me 2 times, in an extremely short distance, one of the bullets broke my leg, but I was STILL ALIVE with almost no gear after two 7,62x54 impacts, so he got his baseball bat to finish me off, me, while bleeding I got on my knees in a crouching position and while I got hit IN that condition a couple times, I MANAGED TO KILL THE FUCKER WITH A FARMING HOE WHILE ON MY KNEES, WITH MY LEGS BROKEN, BLEEDING, AFTER BEING SHOT 2 TIMES WITH A MOSIN, AND HIT WITH BASEBALL BAT AFTERWARDS.

 

Edit: BTW, that character is still alive, stuck in the goddamn hospital with legs broken.

 

That's pure realism.

 

But, really, I remember getting 1 hit kills some patches ago with the Mosin, what the hell happened?

He probably sucked and only shot you in the leg or something. I shot someone in cherno in the guts with it and he instantly died, so the damage seems fine to me. Never had any trouble with it and it's my go-to weapon. 

[anothercynicalbrit 166]

Ya, that does suck.  Shoot a guy only to have him turn around and fire back..... then he dies after   > :(

 

No wait, it was hacks!!!!!

Well no as there are no invincibility hacks, i never hear people saying there is so this is just a prime example of forum brown nosing. Trying to be funny.

[comikz 218]

The M4 is definitely one of those guns that you need to land your shots where it counts, I always aim for the Upperchest and the recoil of the gun during my 3 to 5 shot burst will carry it up to the targets head no problem. I would roll with the SKS but it has let me down far too many times in the past, and I find the M4 to be a far more reliable weapon, it's just a pain in the arss to gather up all those pristine parts, lol...

[The_Monk 320]

The only time I have any luck with an M4 is when I stick the barrel almost inside someone and pull the trigger. The majority of cases it seems like yelling bang at them will do more harm than the M4.

 

Mosin is accurate and hits like a brick through a window, SKS is a good compromise if you're after a bit of rapid fire for close quarters and retain half decent accuracy over longer ranges.

[Windex 13]

 

Stood ~1-3 metres next to him and shot with the white spot, not zoomed.. though I saw the blood with every shot. How is that possible? Or does the M4 really need that many hits?

 

He would have died eventually.   I'm not sure what you're expecting - instant death from 1-2 non-headshots?

[Katana67 2907]

Never had too much of an issue with the damage with regard to the M4 (in either the mod or standalone).

 

But the accuracy is horrendous, and need not be dictated by weapon furniture.

[xRann 126]

Stood ~1-3 metres next to him and shot with the white spot, not zoomed.. though I saw the blood with every shot. How is that possible? Or does the M4 really need that many hits?

 

You see the blood animation even if zero damage ends up on the player, because of gear. So, even though you saw the blood that doesn't mean his kit didn't absorb the brunt of the attack. If I have room in my slots I throw ballistic helmets in there to do exactly that.

 

[taco86 156]

 I'm not sure what you're expecting - instant death from 1-2 non-headshots?

 

In terms of gameplay, I agree...  m4a1 should certainly not be a 1 shot kill to the torso, 2 should be the norm at sub 150m, at 300m+ I think 3 would be reasonable. 

 

As far as "real life" goes though...  Take a look at what a m193 fired from a 20 inch barrel (m16) does...  At a depth of 5 inches it has dumped around 700 ft/lbs of energy...  That's almost 10x more energy transferred at that depth than a .45 acp.  At close ranges, small very high velocity cartridges such as the 5.56x45 and 5.45x39 are fucking meat grinders...  Realistically the lethality of these rounds is only "questionable" beyond 200m where the probability of rapid yaw and subsequent bullet fragmentation resulting in very rapid energy dump is not guaranteed...  At 400-500m a typical 5.56 round has a bit more energy than a .45 acp at point blank range.  The more specialized heavier (75-77gr) open tip match rounds are capable of retaining more than 400 ft/lbs of energy beyond 600m, that's also more than your typical .45 acp load.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOYPxiRldaE

 

Edit: I just wanted to add that seeing a more realistic representation of what a 5.56 round can do could very possibly be showcased in the "semi confirmed" mid to full length ar-15 that chris tweeted about a few days back.  In terms of muzzle energy, a full length ar15 can produce in excess of 20% more muzzle energy than a carbine depending on load.  Here's to hoping we get a mk12 or some other very similar civie SPR.

Edited April 7, 2014 by taco86

[Etherimp 1323]

Desync is the problem most of the times, I just aim at the chest and neck, and shoot 3-5 rounds at a time, watching the enemy's condition really quickly between the fire bursts. Usually they die on the first or second time I shoot them, because with the recoil one of the bullets hits the target's head or he just dies from the number of rounds to the chest.

 

The Mosin's firepower is what worries me. 

 

I managed to kill a guy who had a Mosin when I had no gun, he shot me 2 times, in an extremely short distance, one of the bullets broke my leg, but I was STILL ALIVE with almost no gear after two 7,62x54 impacts, so he got his baseball bat to finish me off, me, while bleeding I got on my knees in a crouching position and while I got hit IN that condition a couple times, I MANAGED TO KILL THE FUCKER WITH A FARMING HOE WHILE ON MY KNEES, WITH MY LEGS BROKEN, BLEEDING, AFTER BEING SHOT 2 TIMES WITH A MOSIN, AND HIT WITH BASEBALL BAT AFTERWARDS.

 

Edit: BTW, that character is still alive, stuck in the goddamn hospital with legs broken.

 

That's pure realism.

 

But, really, I remember getting 1 hit kills some patches ago with the Mosin, what the hell happened?

 

 

I agree... The Mosin seems really weak now.. I thought it was 1-2 hits to kill, until this happened to me: 

 

 

Happens in the first 3 minutes or so.

Edited April 7, 2014 by Etherimp

[Hetstaine 10852]

Double tap followed by double tap with any auto weapon is my rule. Whether they are falling are not the second set goes in, it's only bullets.