Server hopping, "matchmaking" and incentives to gear up on a populated server.

[hefeweizen 254]

So, on the DayZ mod official servers and in the current build of the DayZ SA Alpha there is not really any incentive to begin a new character on a full server, or really to play on a populated server at all before you have a "full kit". I'm not really a fan of this situation and I have to assume that it'll be resolved at some point.

From what I can gather from the dev blogs, the plan by the devs is to leverage the "global item economy" in such a way that gearing up on a populated server will be the path that most people choose because loot will be more readily available on servers with solid population. I hope this system will work, but I have some doubts. Unless they make loot almost non existent on empty servers, it doesn't seem like less loot would dissuade people from choosing to loot in peace on their own private paradise.

The other idea I have seen thrown around is a CS:GO/TF2 style matchmaking system. Where you wouldn't pick a server from a list, you'd be automatically sorted into a server with a decent population with the best possible ping. I personally like this idea, as I don't see a need to even allow people the option of playing on a server by themselves that is also connected to the public hive. There are people who prefer to play alone, fight zombies and eat beans. That is totally fine, but I personally think this style of play honestly runs completely contrary to what the "Official" DayZ experience should be. As such, I think its place should be on Private hives. Other complaints about this system I have seen have been that when Tents/Cars/Bases are put in place people are going to want to pick a specific server when they play so they can get back to their sweet ass pile of loot. Totally a valid point, though I think there could definitely be a system that allows rejoining the server where you've "Planted your flag" so to speak, while maintaining the integrity of the match making system. The other criticism I've heard of this idea is something along the line of "This sounds like consoles, so therefore I hate it." which is somewhat less valid and is just plain silly. However, as a long time PC gamer I can't help but expect this sort of reaction. Irrational hatred of consoles and anything perceived as "simple" is part of the culture, and until consoles eventually fade away it probably always will be.

The other idea that I've been thinking about lately (and this is where I'm expecting a lot of flames on my ass) is an MMO style server structure. Clearly labeled official servers selectable from some sort of slick graphic interface that are added only as needed, these would be run by BI instead of random enthusiasts. This arrangement would go a long way toward establishing both a level playing field for all players and a more standardized "Official DayZ experience", it would completely curb admin abuse, these servers would have undoubtedly have better support from the DayZ team, adding servers only as needed would ensure population remains somewhat stable across all servers and that in and of itself would add a sense of value currently missing from items in DayZ. On a personal note and this is entirely opinion, I really would prefer this type of system when it comes to exposing friends to the game. The current server browser is a total mess, seems entirely outdated and to new players it can be a bit confusing. "Click on DayZ #6 on the U.S. hive and we'll get started." is a lot easier than "Filter for "RapeDungeon" then join the 24/7 Daytime, hardcore, extra vehicles, custom spawn points server. I know there are like six "RapeDungeon" servers, the one we want is the second one down from the top if you filter by server pop. You're in? Okay, I don't see you on the player list, exit out and filter for Rape Dungeon and we'll try again." Yes, I know this is an exageration and there is a friends tab (that works sometimes), but really it would be really nice to have a clear list of servers than didn't have a bunch of clan tags, server styles, hosting companies and rape dungeons.

The other solution to this problem, is exactly what solved the problem on the mod: Private servers. I agree that Private servers would easily fix a lot of problems in DayZ and I honestly see this being the solution that actually works. However, the devs seem fairly set on public hive servers being the main way to play DayZ even after they finish Alpha and head toward full release. So for the purposes of this discussion, I'm going to disregard private servers as a solution and focus on what can be done to incentivize players to play on full public servers even while gearing up.

What do you like about each of these ideas? What do you dislike? Do you have a different idea not listed here or do you see nothing wrong with the current way the public hive functions?

TL;DR. Players gear up on empty servers and then jump to full ones. It is lame, each paragraph outlines an idea to stop this practice.

1. Low loot spawns on empty servers, better loot on higher pop servers. (The option the devs are currently in favor of.)

2. CS:GO/TF2 style match making to automatically filter players into high population servers with a low pings.

3. MMO style servers run by BI that would be added as needed in order to maintain a stable population on every server.

4. Private Hive servers, which although I think is the best option it is not what the devs seem to want as the main way to play DayZ. So for the purposes of this discussion we'll be focusing on options within the public hive.

Thanks,

Hefe

Edited March 29, 2014 by Hefeweizen

[thelonewarrior 886]

Well here's a problem with the matchmaking system

Even with a good ping, servers can still suffer from horrible de sych

I wouldn't mind a matchmaking system, but it would need to have some sort of options as this is my only gripe with that

Obviously if your playing with friends id like the option to form a "matchmaking" group

[enforcer1975 1111]

1. CS:GO/TF2 style match making to automatically filter players into high population servers with a low pings.

2. MMO style servers run by BI that would be added as needed in order to maintain a stable population on every server.

 

 

WHAT!!!??? R U SRS?

This is supposed to be a survival game and TDM/DM game...If you want to do clanwars there are ArmA 2 vanilla and a lot of other mods suited for that.

Edited March 29, 2014 by Enforcer

[Marxx 12]

Then again, you also have to consider the tediousness of going through houses to houses only to find out everything has already been looted.

[mgc 92]

""Low loot spawns on empty servers, better loot on higher pop servers. (The option the devs are currently in favor of.)""

That ought to do the trick.

 

2 and 3 mess with player choice and 4 shouldn't be necessary until the game is nearly dead.

[hefeweizen 254]

WHAT!!!??? R U SRS?

This is supposed to be a survival game and TDM/DM game...If you want to do clanwars there are ArmA 2 vanilla and a lot of other mods suited for that.

Wait.... What? I have no idea what you're on about. How does a lobby system, or offical servers run by BI = Clanwars? Also, this game does not = TDM/DM. So you're mistaken on that front.

[hefeweizen 254]

""Low loot spawns on empty servers, better loot on higher pop servers. (The option the devs are currently in favor of.)""

That ought to do the trick.

 

2 and 3 mess with player choice and 4 shouldn't be necessary until the game is nearly dead.

If players can still gear up at all on empty servers, and then use said gear against other players on full servers then I feel that public hives will fail just like the mod. Unless the devs are willing to make it literally impossible to find a gun on a server with <10 people, then I don't really see number one working out. If they are willing to make the game function in such a way, then I have misjudged them and defer to their good judgement.

[mgc 92]

If players can still gear up at all on empty servers, and then use said gear against other players on full servers then I feel that public hives will fail just like the mod. Unless the devs are willing to make it literally impossible to find a gun on a server with <10 people, then I don't really see number one working out. If they are willing to make the game function in such a way, then I have misjudged them and defer to their good judgement.

""Unless the devs are willing to make it literally impossible to find a gun on a server with <10 people""

That´s the gist of it. In reality a reduced chance would suffice.

[enforcer1975 1111]

""Unless the devs are willing to make it literally impossible to find a gun on a server with <10 people""

That´s the gist of it. In reality a reduced chance would suffice.

 

Did they already address duping? Someone mentioned he watched a group of five duping stuff in the current version? Can't have reduced loot with that bug around.

[mgc 92]

Did they already address duping? Someone mentioned he watched a group of five duping stuff in the current version? Can't have reduced loot with that bug around.

That will obviously have to be addressed. Can't have duping at any rate.

[hefeweizen 254]

In reality a reduced chance would suffice.

I don't see that. If you allow players a probable chance of finding a weapon on an empty server, then that is exactly what they are gonna do. The DayZ player base will meta-game however much they need to in order to gain the upper hand on their fellow survivors, that much is pretty clear.

[vprgtsr001 6]

Obviously if your playing with friends id like the option to form a "matchmaking" group

 

^^ This

[mgc 92]

I don't see that. If you allow players a probable chance of finding a weapon on an empty server, then that is exactly what they are gonna do. The DayZ player base will meta-game however much they need to in order to gain the upper hand on their fellow survivors, that much is pretty clear.

Agreed, but if that means gearing up in an hour or 2 instead of having to search every g.d. building on the map for a pistol, what is the obvious choice?

[hefeweizen 254]

Obviously if your playing with friends id like the option to form a "matchmaking" group

Of course, that is why I sighted CS:GO and TF2 as examples. Along with groups, I could see an acceptable ping options, Hardcore/Reg selection and probably preferred time cycle (Accelerated vs. Real time).

[hefeweizen 254]

Agreed, but if that means gearing up in an hour or 2 instead of having to search every g.d. building on the map for a pistol, what is the obvious choice?

Gearing up in an hour or two. But what you're talking about is making it effectively impossible to find a gun on an empty server which I suppose I could get on board with. My feeling is that the devs wouldn't be willing to make that the case. But I hope I'm wrong.

Edited March 29, 2014 by Hefeweizen

[mgc 92]

As long as it's obvious there is a significantly higher chance of finding the good stuff on populated servers, the measure will be effective. You can allow some good loot on less populated servers for the lone wolves and PvE crowd. They are most likely not that interested in joining the KOS meat grinder state the alpha is currently in.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

If it takes an hour or two to gear then this is not a survival game.  I support BiS but I will not support a stupid matchmaking system.  If this is the route they want to take no problem, it was only $30 wasted and I already got my time out of the alpha anyway.

[enforcer1975 1111]

As long as it's obvious there is a significantly higher chance of finding the good stuff on populated servers, the measure will be effective. You can allow some good loot on less populated servers for the lone wolves and PvE crowd. They are most likely not that interested in joining the KOS meat grinder state the alpha is currently in.

 

Exactly...not that they would embrace eachother when they meet in the middle of the woods but at least it at least a more realistic encounter from my experience. If someone decides to loot NWAF and hop to a low pop server after he found his weapon of choice to hunt bambi and friends he is still at risk because anyone could join the server including the same kind of players as him. And of course the occasional armed survivor who just wants to be left alone while walking through the wilderness searching for his next meal.

[mgc 92]

If it takes an hour or two to gear then this is not a survival game.

If you can't find a melee weapon in a Z apocalypse in under 2 minutes, this is not a survival game.

[hefeweizen 254]

As long as it's obvious there is a significantly higher chance of finding the good stuff on populated servers, the measure will be effective. You can allow some good loot on less populated servers for the lone wolves and PvE crowd. They are most likely not that interested in joining the KOS meat grinder state the alpha is currently in.

I think the PvE and lone wolf crowd would be just as happy on private servers. I don't see why there should even be an option to play solo on a server that is connected to the public hive. That is just free gear with no risk, and if free gear with no risk is an option then that is what the majority of the DayZ player base is going to do.

A lot of people who play DayZ like to throw on their 'Merican hat and shout "Freedumb!!!!" when you talk about limiting the way they can play. The thing is, sometimes those "Freedumbs" need to be sacrificed on the alter of game play, otherwise you end up with crap like server hopping, glitching into walls, gamma exploiting, vacation looting on empty servers and jamming your head into walls in order to see through buildings.

Sorry everyone, but people who play DayZ will exploit any possible advantage to win. I think some people need to come to terms with this. That is just the nature of the beast, as such those possible advantages need to be limited severely. Otherwise DayZ just becomes more about how well you meta-game and not how well you can survive.

If it takes an hour or two to gear then this is not a survival game.  I support BiS but I will not support a stupid matchmaking system.  If this is the route they want to take no problem, it was only $30 wasted and I already got my time out of the alpha anyway.

Please explain why you think a lobby system would be stupid.

[LigerRider 82]

Some people enjoy testing weapons on zombies without the worry of a gunfight, and when zombies become more of a threat, more realistic and have increased numbers, a lot of people would just like to gear up alone and legitimately survive against zombies. (I think)

[AryanBoogeyman 185]

Once persistent storage is implemented this entire argument is moot.  No matter the source people will have huge encampments on multiple servers to restock their weapons from.

 

The mod proved this again and again.

 

PermaDeath will not be an issue and the only problem will be the time required to rejoin the firefight in progress.

 

Personally my group had no less than 4-6 starter camps setup near popular spawn points on at least 4 different servers ranging from high traffic to very low specifically for rapid redeployment into battle. Anything from small vehicles and starter weapons to military transport and high grade military weapons were stashed in these locations. Decoy camps were also deployed to reduce the inevitable losses.

 

Further North we had heli camps and large vehicle stashes all over the place on multiple servers to save on losses.

 

My point here is that no matter where you imagine people get the weapons, persistent storage will make a hash of any in game economy.

 

All it takes is time and persistence. 

 

 

P.S. Leave the matchmaker B.S where it belongs.... on consoles.

 

 

Edited March 29, 2014 by AryanBoogeyman

[pilgrim* 3514]

Most (if not all) of the low pop servers are whitelist and autokick NOW already.

It's a FACT of life. So NO loot there for YOU or ME, friend

Takes me now 3 or 5 or more tries to find a really public decent-ping server just to PLAY on

 

So most of THOSE low pop you can't go looking for loot even if you WANT to

 

On the other hand, the new zombies really change the whole dynamic of starting on the beach, so it changes the whole system of looking for loot.

You need FIRST rags or bandages, pitchfork or axe.. and there is NOW food littered around where the zombies have chased off the looters after they checked one or two places.. you stand a much better chance of eating and drinking and finding gear on a high pop server than you did before the patch - NO ONE can go through a whole village now after spawning, and not get beaten to death and eaten, so you run like mad, learn to deal with zombs, and find GOOD loot in places it had always gone from in the past, before the zombies took over the villages.

 

So lets see how this pans out.

 

xx

Edited March 29, 2014 by pilgrim

[AlphaDogMeat . 493]

Please explain why you think a lobby system would be stupid.

Because not everyone wants to run a gauntlet of clan-warring cods and the associated losers lurking on the fringes of the fight every time they need a tin of beans.

Because not everyone plays SA the way you want them to play.

Because forcing players onto high pop servers will turn the beach and mil loot locations into turkey shoots for snipers.

There's three reasons and I'm not even trying. It's a stupid idea.

[Irish. 4886]

1. It does not matter how others play the game, only how you do it. Stop caring, and your world will improve tremendously.

2. Sure, add matchmaking as an option. Nothing less or more. You click it, it joins you into a server with low ping acc. to your filter setting.

3. Stable populations are not that important. Full servers can always be found. 

4. Dayz will be modded one day. Anything is possible.