Do Zombies Dream Of A Good Nights Sleep? (Zombie feedback)

[finnpalm 312]

The problem about 'glitching' and zombies going through walls, is - I think (just my idea of it)  - that the "walls" in video games do not have a thickness. they are only a texture. They are placed inside a marker position and the player character software 'knows' that it cannot pass across those markers. Call it a 'rule' that is built in to the game.

So you are right about 'glitch' and zombies ignoring walls, they have the same base. In the player's case the glitch depends on what 'part' of the player counts as being the player's actual posiition, and also depends on what the camera can see, depending on the player location. It's damned difficult to have a camera that 'follows' a player fluidly, changes angle, pans back and forward automatically to give the best view, without being blocked by objects (so you cant see the player) and without 'seeing' things the player should not see.

But that's the player-object. OK - if the computer decides that the 'location point' of the player is on the other side of the wall, then the player IS on the other side of the wall. If he can stay on this side of the wall but move his head enough so the camera location 'sees' outside the wall, then he can see out through the wall.

All games have these problems. The point is to nail them down, adjust them,  and make sure they don't wreck the game.

 

But the zombies are a little different: The zombies need their own AI so they can 'make decisions' - meaning - they 'decide' if they can see something, they 'decide' what is the best way to reach a player. If the zombies-coming-through-walls was fixed today, then you could stand on the other side of the wall and the zombie would stand close to the wall and shout a lot, and - end of story - he'd just stay there and not be able to reach you. What you need is a zombie that detects the player, and decides it has to run in some direction to try to reach - maybe run all the way round the end of the wall to reach the player.

Or for instance, if a zomb detects a player on the first floor, it has to 'decide' it can run round round to the other side of the building and up the stairs. That's not obvious (we could do it "without thinking about it" because we already spent a life learning that stuff.  For the zombie it's not obvious because to reach the player on the first floor, the zombie has to start by going further away from the player, the entry is round the back of the building, NOT close to the player. So the zombie has to have a 'decision' ability that tells it, if it runs round to the other side of the building, it can THEN get closer to the player by going in through the door.

 

This is why AIs in different games have reputations for being 'good' or 'bad' or 'half and half'  or sometimes just plain stupid. Often they can deal very well with a lot of standard things that turn up in the game every day, but then something slightly special turns up that they can't figure out, and the NPCs start doing really really dumb stuff.

 

OK, this is my take on Artificial Intelligence, as it's used in video games - its a sub-program that kick in when an NPC enters into contact with a player, and it makes the NPC act as much as possible as if he can 'think'

 

OK - maybe we want zombies that DO stuff, but don't want zombies that think much. But they have to have an AI that runs them. Once that unit works, then you can fine tune all kinds of things about zombie behaviour.

 

So you're not wrong about walls, in my view (sorry it took me so long to say that).  It comes down to - walls look like 3D objects but they are not.

1) player glitching has to be sorted.

2) zombie-through-walls has to be sorted too, but that's only PART of the Zombie AI. As other folk say in this thread above, the Zed AI is the real placeholder, not the Zeds themselves..

 

Just an thought (maybe... how much do I know)

Trees are 3D objects, right? And I think the concrete external barrier walls are 3D too, maybe?

My experience is that Zeds don't see you through those outside, 6-foot walls, unless they are already agroing.

 

And has anyone seen a zombie run through a tree?

 

xx pilgrim

 

I understand what you're saying about AI, but I think the more fundamental problem lies in the wall glitch. If that is fixed other bugs will be flushed along with it, or at least be easier to fix. It's like when you're writing code, and when compiling you get 8 errors. You fix one of them and the rest are gone.

 

Of course, at other times you have one error and fix it and suddenly have 28 errors instead. But I think you get my point.

 

For AI, I think that's something to look at closer later on.

 

And about low walls outside of houses, infected aren't moving through them from what I have seen, but once they've located you and you move behind one of them, you can't shake them even if you move around a second corner before the infected sees you again, and they'll track you like a blood hound.

 

Personally I prefer fewer but quicker and more dangerous infected over weaker, slower but more numerous any day. There must be a limit to it however. As of now I think they're going in the right direction.

Edited April 18, 2014 by Strawman

[krisfx 11]

this thread is tl;dr, but as a new ish forum user, I'd rather they fixed the whole clipping zombies/zombies spawning in aggro'd already, sight issues and the rest of the broken stuff in the game (The whole weapon attachement flicker has been broken from day 1, it's more of a priority than spraying guns). I also dislike the whole issue I have where I get a zombie spawning behind me when I've cleared a town and am sat in the tree line away from it eating. 

 

 

Personally, I think the zombies should spawn in at the server start like before, the player should be able to clear a town and freely loot it if they wish, or sneak through. I really don't think having to karate chop six or so zombies that are spawning in front of you as a new spawn while is fun/productive.

 

The zombies should then spawn in again a small amount of time after the player has exited the town "boundary", possibly in the trees, so they can naturally wander into the town and headbang to their hearts content.

[bastardo 12]

They completely ruin squadfights sometimes. When you're just running around looting they are a non issue if you have a fireaxe but yeah, I don't like that they constantly respawn with aggro in firefights. I like the idea of respawning zombies but not the idea of respawning zombies with aggro.

[jknitt 5]

Personally, I'd love to seem them respawn and aggro like crazy in firefights. Make it nearly impossible for someone to die in a firefight and then rush back to loot their own corpse. This is not C.O.D. or Rust, this is supposed to be a zombie game. Make them dangerous and make them react to squad play & firefights.

 

But make sure to fix the wall and pathing glitches first.

[gannon46 788]

zeds need to be the first thing folks worry about. Humans second, everything else when you get a chance.devs need to turn on the diseases for one and they should add an incurable disease that only the zeds can spread through attack and make it a high chance none of this .1% crap. make it cripple you slowly then you curl up in the fetal position and die. the result of this added is folks will have to actually worry about the zed they aggro'd being a tool and shooting up a storm and the bambi whos running around like a tool without a care in the world till he finds a gun. I understand that the zeds as of now are atrocious walk through walls etc but the game is feeling less zombie like and more stalker without the cool monsters/radiation zones. I don't understand the point or the direction this game is going as of now seems more deathmatch. so give the zeds some balls and change it to what the mod finally became a zombie survival game. and permadeath doesn't make a game survival sorry to let you know this but I could make a game where its a guy taking a shit and the fact that I give him permadeath would make it a survival game under your definition.

Edited April 18, 2014 by gannon46

[kichilron 8550]

zeds need to be the first thing folks worry about. Humans second, everything else when you get a chance.devs need to turn on the diseases for one and they should add an incurable disease that only the zeds can spread through attack and make it a high chance none of this .1% crap. make it cripple you slowly then you curl up in the fetal position and die. the result of this added is folks will have to actually worry about the zed they aggro'd being a tool and shooting up a storm and the bambi whos running around like a tool without a care in the world till he finds a gun. I understand that the zeds as of now are atrocious walk through walls etc but the game is feeling less zombie like and more stalker without the cool monsters/radiation zones. I don't understand the point or the direction this game is going as of now seems more deathmatch. so give the zeds some balls and change it to what the mod finally became a zombie survival game. and permadeath doesn't make a game survival sorry to let you know this but I could make a game where its a guy taking a shit and the fact that I give him permadeath would make it a survival game under your definition.

 

 

Merging

[lipemr 160]

Personally, I'd love to seem them respawn and aggro like crazy in firefights. Make it nearly impossible for someone to die in a firefight and then rush back to loot their own corpse. This is not C.O.D. or Rust, this is supposed to be a zombie game. Make them dangerous and make them react to squad play & firefights.

 

But make sure to fix the wall and pathing glitches first.

 

they shouldnt respawn at all. Noticing zeds appearing from thin air before you is totally immersion breaking and prejudices the gameplay.

 

You should be able to know if it's a good idea or not to enter a town by looking at the amount of zeds there is in it.

 

this is just acceptable cause we know that the shitty engine cant handle spawning 2000 zombies on the same server.

Edited April 19, 2014 by lipemr

[Tomo2000uk 33]

Much better than the mod. In the mod they used to spawn when you were approaching a town etc so it looked like they were always there. Now they appear out of thin air this is much more realistic.

Things are going well.

[vn88holden 1]

the way the zombies are at the moment makes me want to play something else. no offence to what I say, but I have been trying breaking point on arma 3 and I gotta say the way they have there zombies is pretty sweet, they are slow but you get cornered you are dead, sorry infected. just after dayz sa was released the zombies/infected were good apart from them seeing you from 5 kays away and going through walls. but all in all im shore you's will make the right decision.... I hope.

[rendyTHEhunted 0]

The zeds are going through walls and some can jump through fcuk all to kill on second floor some can even run on roofs. Fcuk me! But at least the Firefighter axe bug has been fixed (one swing at the ol' zeds).

 

I don;t notice the spawning system as a problem!

[jknitt 5]

Just did some zed testing.

Seems like you need to be in visual range for them to hear gunfire. Upon hearing the fire they'll turn towards you and may/may not aggro.

After I disposed of my test subject, another did respawn very close by. HOWEVER, he seemed to be stopped by a wall I ran past. He couldn't see me through the wall and when I went back to bait him he ran around the wall and not through it. It's only one occurrence, but maybe the pathing problem is on the road to being fixed?

[shinjuru 114]

1. Like the faster zombies.

2. Dislike immediaite respawning of zombie in same vicinity of a zombie I just killed.

3. Wall glitching zombies is still a huge problem and would love for these type of issues to be fixed before more aggressive zombies are implemented.

4. We should be able to easily lose zombie by Line of Sight, like ditching around many tall fances, walls, and buildings.

5. Rooftop spawning zombies?   I still find it funny every time I see one on a rooftop.

6. We should be able to damage the zombie arms and legs.   Why shouldn't I be able to disable one from chasing me around by shooting or axing their legs off?

[Agni 0]

Why are zombies even being buffed when the game is still in alpha?

Its more important that time should be spent on fixing bugs such as falling through the floor to one's death.

Ladders throwing people off to fall to their doom.

Falling 3 feet and then having both your legs break or result in death.

The client being able to run console scripts.

etc etc.

[lipemr 160]

they shouldn't be buffed, they should be fixed.

 

but that's asking too much, i guess.

[BadAsh (DayZ) 1513]

They completely ruin squadfights sometimes. When you're just running around looting they are a non issue if you have a fireaxe but yeah, I don't like that they constantly respawn with aggro in firefights. I like the idea of respawning zombies but not the idea of respawning zombies with aggro.

 

Man, some people. I guess you are also one of those going to Door Kicker forums posting "Man, those doors, they completely ruin squadfights sometimes".

 

Why are you playing this game, and not sticking to ARMA, where you can get guaranteed zombie-free squadfights?

[Hallian 1]

Here's my attempt on a constructive feedback post concerning the zombie changes. Keeping in mind the realism this game should be (or is) aiming for and the fair challenge it should offer.

 

The zombie speed. A crippled, half dead and limping zombie should not be able to keep up with a healthy, human survivalist. Players should be able to outsprint the zombies. It should not be too easy to avoid them though, so I believe the zombies should be able to keep up with a player holding a weapon. This way you force players to choose, either kill or sprint. The zombies would still be a challenge and force players to make a choice, while not being too bloody hard/easy to get rid of. I believe that would be a fair balance.  

 

The zombie respawning. With only up to 100 survivors per map there are probably a lot of dead people in Chernarus. Therefor they should be a lot of zombies. On that note, respawning is fair. Shooting a zombie just to see it respawn out of nowhere within 50 meters of your character is not. It is bloody annoying. I believe it's fair to up the amount of zombies and have them respawn, but not to a point where they just keep coming while you are standing still in a bush. Set their respawn timer to so many minutes or have zombies not respawn within the aggro range of a player. This should give a fair amount of zombies in the game without being overwhelming.  

 

The zombie aggro range. As far as I know zombies are half blind of at least have a handicapped visual range. At the moment, they come in sprinting from half way across the city. With reduced speed this would be less annoying, but I still believe they should not be able to spot players from 100 meters away. Let alone see the difference between a player and another zombie. I don't know what their field and range of vision should be, but it should not be as far as it is now.

 

That's all. ;)

[lipemr 160]

Here's my attempt on a constructive feedback post concerning the zombie changes. Keeping in mind the realism this game should be (or is) aiming for and the fair challenge it should offer.

 

The zombie speed. A crippled, half dead and limping zombie should not be able to keep up with a healthy, human survivalist. Players should be able to outsprint the zombies. It should not be too easy to avoid them though, so I believe the zombies should be able to keep up with a player holding a weapon. This way you force players to choose, either kill or sprint. The zombies would still be a challenge and force players to make a choice, while not being too bloody hard/easy to get rid of. I believe that would be a fair balance.  

 

The zombie respawning. With only up to 100 survivors per map there are probably a lot of dead people in Chernarus. Therefor they should be a lot of zombies. On that note, respawning is fair. Shooting a zombie just to see it respawn out of nowhere within 50 meters of your character is not. It is bloody annoying. I believe it's fair to up the amount of zombies and have them respawn, but not to a point where they just keep coming while you are standing still in a bush. Set their respawn timer to so many minutes or have zombies not respawn within the aggro range of a player. This should give a fair amount of zombies in the game without being overwhelming.  

 

The zombie aggro range. As far as I know zombies are half blind of at least have a handicapped visual range. At the moment, they come in sprinting from half way across the city. With reduced speed this would be less annoying, but I still believe they should not be able to spot players from 100 meters away. Let alone see the difference between a player and another zombie. I don't know what their field and range of vision should be, but it should not be as far as it is now.

 

That's all. ;)

 

they're not crimpled half dead zombies, they're infected with a virus that induces a frenzy, making them immune to pain and probably more strong than any human would be.

 

They dont feel pain nor get tired, they should actually outrun you and 2~3 hit know you out.

 

Obviously making them that strong while they're bugged as they're in game right now would be a imense pain in the ass that would only make people stop playing after getting killed from behind a wall multiple times.

 

Though i agree with you that the respawning mechanics right now are even more flawed than the one we had in the mod.

 

And seems that the human detection range on zombies is faded to be buggy, must be somthing with the engine.

Edited April 23, 2014 by lipemr

[kander 80]

 

The fact that when running with my M4 out makes the zombies catch up to me and overpower me and kill me is a really good feeling now.

 

This is a great point. There need to be more features that make those in PvP mode more susceptible to environmental dangers. Running around waving a rife? The zombies will be able to outrun you.

[Tmar09 19]

I think people are forgetting the zombies were even faster in the mod

 

and they were even faster in the beginning

TOTALLY and completely irrelevant since this is not the mod. 

[Tmar09 19]

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/181561-post-patch-zombie-feedback/

 

Official Zombie discussion.

 

Edit: I'm not a mod, but I just think it's good to keep it all to one discussion.. Obviously you can post here all you want lol.

Seems like THIS topic is completely about post patch zombies and started by a Mod, so how is it the wrong place to post?

[AwesomeBeans 4]

So i spawned up north to test 0.44 just to find out that all the zombies are 200 times harder to kill now. I did think that zombies needed a buff but this.....

I mean my fireaxe is totally useless I had to use my sks to take down a single zombie because else I would bleed out.

I normaly dont whine about games getting harder (hell I promote it) but this is kind of a gamebreaker

[bastardo 12]

So I know they buffed the zombies so it takes like 5-6 hits with a fireaxe(2-3 headshots) but do they still respawn with aggro? What's the situation like right now?

Edited April 24, 2014 by Bigbadasswolf

[pillock 850]

I just ignore them. As long as you keep moving, and you are not spectacularly careless about keeping an eye on where they are, there is very little chance of them hitting you, or disturbing a loot run. Why bother killing them, when it's more hassle than it's worth?

 

Snipers, on the other hand, I can imagine would be inconvenienced...

[Rick1633 136]

Criticism on zombies?  Seriously?

 

1. Stop their 2 years of laughable clipping issues.

2.  Roll back the ridiculous way their body disappears before you are even finished killing them.

3. Roll back the immersion destroying way they fakely spawn out of thin air, in front of you, or on top of buildings.

 

4. Stop asking for criticism after making them worse.

 

[barnabus 1708]

Just so you know, axe got fixed on experimental, don't know how they will take to roll that out, in the meantime I used fists or just shot them outright.  As of now they won't randomly insta-re-spawn near you on death thus giving you time to make like a French soldier in May 1940.