The Battle Rifle Thread!

[gibonez 3633]

Battle Rifles especially with reflex sights and red dot sights will not be any different from assault rifles sadly.

 

Where battle Rifles would have shined however is if the game had Arma 3s fantastic bullet penetration.

 

Imagine seeing a player looting an apartment and he takes a shot at you , you then empty a magazine in his direction piercing the apartment and ripping it to shreds hitting him and anyone with him.

[mugur 123]

i just hope to see the Vintorez one day...more useful than SVD in dayz, IMO.

one can only hope.

[gibonez 3633]

i just hope to see the Vintorez one day...more useful than SVD in dayz, IMO.

one can only hope.

 

That gun is a given.

 

It will be added eventually it just seems like one of those russian firearms that makes complete sense to add.

[hells high 676]

When do we get the .50 cal battle rifle to mount the ACOG to? :P http://youtu.be/GXEK7rcqO-Y?t=1m36s

[hiberNative 13]

We really don't need more cheesy, western weapons in the game. Keep it Soviet and Balkans.

SVD would be fine, and maybe a modern bolt rifle also using the 7.62x54.

And I agree on avoiding more 5.56 NATO rifles. If kept realistic, the in game differences would be way too minimal.

Edited March 26, 2014 by hiberNative

[Etherimp 1323]

dayz have a totally different concept dude, starting by the fact that in dayz you have to find a weapon, that is supposed to be rare, in battlefield you just choose a weapon and go pew pew.

 

just this fact alone makes this discussion useless.

 

in dayz we need as much variety as we can get, as it makes getting attachments for a specific weapon more difficult and adds to the atmosphere of the game.

 

If we would follow your idea, we should only have the shotgun, mosin, sks and m4 in game, as any other weapon than these would be redundant.

 

 

If you think that's my idea, then you haven't been reading my posts very thoroughly. I have never said we shouldn't have a wide variety of weapons. I've simply said that we should NOT have WEAPON REDUNDANCY.

 

The Blase95 vs the Mosin is not a fair comparison. They do not fill the same role or even perform the same. 

The point of my original post on this topic was that a lot of people in this community are pushing gun ideas.. Everyone wants a little bit of everything. Everyone wants their favorite weapon. Everyone wants this gun and that gun, and if Dean was to take everyones suggestions, there would be every gun in the world, in the game.

 

I'm saying the weapons that get added to the game should fit the following criteria:

 

1. It should fit the theme/aesthetic/location of the game. A lot of weapons which are common in the Eastern Block. 

 

2. Most weapons should be Civilian.. Which that alone allows for a ton of variety.

 

3. A few high level, military grade weapons, but only those which fit into the game.. AK's, SA-58's, etc.

 

4. Mimimize application redundancy. As I've stated many times, we should not have weapons which are clearly the "same" except for a different model. IE - 2 weapons which fire the same round, have the same ROF, muzzle velocity, magazine, etc.. This is not "good game design". 

 

5. There should be a balance to selecting a weapon which requires some thought.. Currently, the Mosin and the Blase95 fire the same ammo, and thus have the same damage levels, but they have different applications. The Blaze95 is better for close/mid range engagements, where as the Mosin is better "in the long run", if you have the time or survive long enough to pick up a PU or LRS, and some attachments to modify it with.. But if your life is in immediate danger, the Blase is probably a better option. The M4 vs AK is another good example of this kind of "choice".. If I had to choose between picking up an M4, or an AK, I would go based on my personal preference, and the kinds of engagements I think I would be more likely to run into.. The AK has a stronger round, but the recoil is harder to control. The M4 is better for close/mid range engagements, and the AK is better for tap-firing/single shot firing across a little longer range, and making your shots count.. Alteratively, the AK is better against vehicles/heavier armored targets, where the M4 is almost useless in those scenarios. 

It doesn't matter that BF3 and DayZ are completely different games. Designing a quality game uses the same concepts no matter what genre. 

 

Furthermore, to those who make the argument "some guns are going to be more common/rare!"..

 

...That only makes a difference for your first 1-2 hours playing the game. After that, all guns are equally accessible, especially when they introduce loot-respawning mechanics. 

The DMR was more rare than the Winchester... but how many people were carrying a DMR on your average Vanilla server? Probably over half.

 

Furthermore, the SVD was one of the rarest guns at one point.. And how many people would pick that up over the DMR? VERY few.

 

Why? The DMR was better.. you had double zoom, you could use night vision while using the scope, it had a faster ROF, more rounds in a magazine, the ammo was easy to come by and it was just as powerful of a round as the SVD. Thus, the SVD was a niche weapon that people only picked up if they REALLY had a passion for that weapon, which is FINE, but it's also bad game design.

[thedogfoodyayho 295]

I say we should have variety, to some extent.

Fkr instance, we are eventually getting the AK-74M. Why not the AK-74? At first glance, they are the same in performance, but the AK-74M has a folding stock, meaning less inventory space used. Same for AKMS

The M16A2 would be more accurate than the M4, but with a limeted CQC capability.

Ect.

 

BTW, we already have a battle rifle - The mosin.

[Zee_Panda 29]

I thought the only sniper rifles in the game were only going to be bolt actions hence why they removed the long range scope from the sks

[igor-vk 909]

If there was no western presence in Chernarus, what are all the wrecked Humwees doing everywhere? Western weapons should be more rare and found at places like that. Or maybe when there are heli crash sites. Maybe there were private military companies sent to steal/rescue/extract someone and got infected and they left behind HK G36s, M16, L85A2, MP5, Glock... (and SUVs in mod). American weapons were left behind after operation Red harvest. Id like more rare weapons, even with same caracteristics, so it makes you to go around map and explore and search for them. I hope they make all AK variants from mod. If you like only M4/M16, find it and stick to it.

[gibonez 3633]

I thought the only sniper rifles in the game were only going to be bolt actions hence why they removed the long range scope from the sks

 

Reason they probably removed the LRS from the SKS is probably  because you cant just mount a modern western scope on the sks without proprietary third party mounts.

 

Same could be said about the mosin nagant so hopefully they remove the LRS from that weapon and move it to the blaze 95 , sporter 22 and m4 the only weapons currently in game that could mount a scope with no third party tools.

[igor-vk 909]

Reason they probably removed the LRS from the SKS is probably  because you cant just mount a modern western scope on the sks without proprietary third party mounts.

 

Same could be said about the mosin nagant so hopefully they remove the LRS from that weapon and move it to the blaze 95 , sporter 22 and m4 the only weapons currently in game that could mount a scope with no third party tools.

LRS should go only on battle rifles with 7,62x51 or 7,62x54R rounds, or hunting rifles like Blaze (supose to use different ammo) or some day CZ550 

[-Gews- 7443]

The M4 is better for close/mid range engagements, and the AK is better for tap-firing/single shot firing across a little longer range, and making your shots count..

 

What?

[Etherimp 1323]

What?

 

 

M4 generally has less recoil but less damage. AK has more powerful rounds and greater recoil. That was the gist of my point.

[gibonez 3633]

M4 generally has less recoil but less damage. AK has more powerful rounds and greater recoil. That was the gist of my point.

 

The m4 is also flatter shooting and more accurate two qualities that are very desirable in a long range weapon.

 

While powerful sure the akm is not as accurate, and the round drops much more .

[gibonez 3633]

LRS should go only on battle rifles with 7,62x51 or 7,62x54R rounds, or hunting rifles like Blaze (supose to use different ammo) or some day CZ550 

 

I think the LRS ( just a telescopic scope) should mount only on weapons that it would mount on in real life with little tools and no specialized parts that only a hand ful of people posses.

 

Currently in game the weapons that easily take any modern optic are, the M4, blase , sporter 22.

 

That is all , the caliber of a weapon should have nothing at all to do with what accessories can be mounted or not.

[igor-vk 909]

I think the LRS ( just a telescopic scope) should mount only on weapons that it would mount on in real life with little tools and no specialized parts that only a hand ful of people posses.

 

Currently in game the weapons that easily take any modern optic are, the M4, blase , sporter 22.

 

That is all , the caliber of a weapon should have nothing at all to do with what accessories can be mounted or not.

why put LRS on weapon accurate  to 400m max (m4, AK) or 150m (sporter 22)? PU and ACOG shold be enough (once they have RL magnification of 3.5x and 4x)

[-Gews- 7443]

M4 generally has less recoil but less damage. AK has more powerful rounds and greater recoil. That was the gist of my point.

 

The AK has a shorter effective range than the M4 Carbine so I don't get the "little longer range" part, and using common military ammunition, at closer ranges the 5.56 also has the potential to create much more serious wounds, either round is adequate.

 

 

 

 

Main advantage of AK is the oft-mentioned reliability in adverse conditions. Take that away and it would have few advantages over the M4...

[gibonez 3633]

why put LRS on weapon accurate to 400m max (m4, AK) or 150m (sporter 22)? PU and ACOG shold be enough (once they have RL magnification of 3.5x and 4x)

Why because it can in real life.

The pseudo realism bullshit accessory system need to go.

At this rate they might ass well add a gp25 for the mosin.

[hiberNative 13]

The AK has a shorter effective range than the M4 Carbine so I don't get the "little longer range" part, and using common military ammunition, at closer ranges the 5.56 also has the potential to create much more serious wounds, either round is adequate.

 

 

 

 

Main advantage of AK is the oft-mentioned reliability in adverse conditions. Take that away and it would have few advantages over the M4...

sure there's a risk of over-penetration with a 7.62x39 at close range, but hydro-static shock from a heavy round can be just as instantly crippling as a 5.56nato bullet tumbling up close.

i'm not sure the standalone would respect all the advantages/disadvantages an akm would have compared to the m4 except the very elemental stuff.

[weedmasta 784]

The popularity of the DMR was not just in its multi-purpose role in the mod but also the fact that it was one of the select few weapons (the only rifle with a long range scope I believe) that you could use with your NVGs.

[Etherimp 1323]

The popularity of the DMR was not just in its multi-purpose role in the mod but also the fact that it was one of the select few weapons (the only rifle with a long range scope I believe) that you could use with your NVGs.

 

Yes.. Which was inherently broken as fuck.

[lipemr 160]

If you think that's my idea, then you haven't been reading my posts very thoroughly. I have never said we shouldn't have a wide variety of weapons. I've simply said that we should NOT have WEAPON REDUNDANCY.

 

The Blase95 vs the Mosin is not a fair comparison. They do not fill the same role or even perform the same. 

The point of my original post on this topic was that a lot of people in this community are pushing gun ideas.. Everyone wants a little bit of everything. Everyone wants their favorite weapon. Everyone wants this gun and that gun, and if Dean was to take everyones suggestions, there would be every gun in the world, in the game.

 

I'm saying the weapons that get added to the game should fit the following criteria:

 

1. It should fit the theme/aesthetic/location of the game. A lot of weapons which are common in the Eastern Block. 

 

2. Most weapons should be Civilian.. Which that alone allows for a ton of variety.

 

3. A few high level, military grade weapons, but only those which fit into the game.. AK's, SA-58's, etc.

 

4. Mimimize application redundancy. As I've stated many times, we should not have weapons which are clearly the "same" except for a different model. IE - 2 weapons which fire the same round, have the same ROF, muzzle velocity, magazine, etc.. This is not "good game design". 

 

5. There should be a balance to selecting a weapon which requires some thought.. Currently, the Mosin and the Blase95 fire the same ammo, and thus have the same damage levels, but they have different applications. The Blaze95 is better for close/mid range engagements, where as the Mosin is better "in the long run", if you have the time or survive long enough to pick up a PU or LRS, and some attachments to modify it with.. But if your life is in immediate danger, the Blase is probably a better option. The M4 vs AK is another good example of this kind of "choice".. If I had to choose between picking up an M4, or an AK, I would go based on my personal preference, and the kinds of engagements I think I would be more likely to run into.. The AK has a stronger round, but the recoil is harder to control. The M4 is better for close/mid range engagements, and the AK is better for tap-firing/single shot firing across a little longer range, and making your shots count.. Alteratively, the AK is better against vehicles/heavier armored targets, where the M4 is almost useless in those scenarios. 

It doesn't matter that BF3 and DayZ are completely different games. Designing a quality game uses the same concepts no matter what genre. 

 

Furthermore, to those who make the argument "some guns are going to be more common/rare!"..

 

...That only makes a difference for your first 1-2 hours playing the game. After that, all guns are equally accessible, especially when they introduce loot-respawning mechanics. 

The DMR was more rare than the Winchester... but how many people were carrying a DMR on your average Vanilla server? Probably over half.

 

Furthermore, the SVD was one of the rarest guns at one point.. And how many people would pick that up over the DMR? VERY few.

 

Why? The DMR was better.. you had double zoom, you could use night vision while using the scope, it had a faster ROF, more rounds in a magazine, the ammo was easy to come by and it was just as powerful of a round as the SVD. Thus, the SVD was a niche weapon that people only picked up if they REALLY had a passion for that weapon, which is FINE, but it's also bad game design.

 

people wandered around with dmrs cause 1- They duped the hell out of the game 2- They server hopped/loot farmed NWAF to get them.

 

i personally only found ONE DMR in vanilla dayz in more than 200 hours, it was in a heli crash and didnt have any ammo.

 

If a DMR or modern battle rifle will be acessible after 2 hours of gameplay, the whole game is pointless and it will become again a freaking deathmatch.

 

But i think the devs will have a little brain and wont make loot farming possible again. Or else this game will die very soon.

Edited March 26, 2014 by lipemr

[Etherimp 1323]

people wandered around with dmrs cause 1- They duped the hell out of the game 2- They server hopped/loot farmed NWAF to get them.

 

i personally only found ONE DMR in vanilla dayz in more than 200 hours, it was in a heli crash and didnt have any ammo.

 

If a DMR or modern battle rifle will be acessible after 2 hours of gameplay, the whole game is pointless and it will become again a freaking deathmatch.

 

 

1. I never server hopped.

2. I never duped.

3. Myself and my friends always had a solid stockpile of DMR's.. Always had 1 in my backpack while I carried either an MK Mod 0, or a M16 ACOG.

 

Your argument is invalid. DMR's were "uncommon".. You could find them in barracks or crash sites, and it took ~1 hour to run to NWAF.. If you had a vehicle or a helicopter it was even easier.

Edited March 26, 2014 by Etherimp

[Katana67 2907]

I think the LRS ( just a telescopic scope) should mount only on weapons that it would mount on in real life with little tools and no specialized parts that only a hand ful of people posses.

 

Like I said before, the PU scope essentially requires an armorer to mount onto any weapon. Especially the Mosin. Even the "realistic" choices require a lot of tooling and specialized parts.

 

If the "little tools and no specialized parts" approach is the one you're taking, then every weapon without 1913 rails would be included in that category. Including most hunting rifles.

 

Mounting a 1913 rail on a Mosin is no more or less plausible than mounting some scope rings on a CZ550 or Remington 700. For that matter, if we can loot a scope for a hunting rifle (eventually) and it's not the LRS, then I'd assume it would COME WITH scope rings. Just as the LRS COMES WITH a rail to mount on the Mosin.

 

Certain creative liberties have to be taken to make the system efficient, like having the LRS be mountable to the Mosin (which is plausible either way) without having to find a rail mount. Which, I would be in favor of, but I don't mind the way it is now.

 

Anywho, can we please get back to talking about battle rifles? The DMR discussion is interesting, but we're not here to talk about how the DMR was in the mod... things have changed... And we're here to talk about how it could/should be in Standalone. Nor is the purpose of this thread to flog the tired AK vs. M4 debate.

 

What battle rifles would you all like to see in Standalone? How would you configure them? What is the rarity you think appropriate for battle rifles? Do you think they should have specific attachments made available?

Edited March 26, 2014 by Katana67

[Chaingunfighter 917]

That gun is a given.

 

It will be added eventually it just seems like one of those russian firearms that makes complete sense to add.

It really isn't, the ammunition used in the VSS is only used in the VSS/AS VAL and it's not used at all outside of Russia, from what I hear. It's like asking for an AK-12 or AN-94, sure they're Russian, but they have only seen limited use as of yet.

Reason they probably removed the LRS from the SKS is probably  because you cant just mount a modern western scope on the sks without proprietary third party mounts.

 

Same could be said about the mosin nagant so hopefully they remove the LRS from that weapon and move it to the blaze 95 , sporter 22 and m4 the only weapons currently in game that could mount a scope with no third party tools.

They took the LRS off of the SKS because the shell-casings would fly out and hit the scope, damaging it. 

 

I thought the only sniper rifles in the game were only going to be bolt actions hence why they removed the long range scope from the sks

No, they are working on the SVD as we speak. Again, they only took it off because the SKS shell-casings would hit and damage the LRS from how it was positioned.