Go to the forest of trees

[Katana67 2907]

I totally agree with what you're saying, katana. Survival in a post apocalyptic scenario should be a lot of work (hence the majority not surviving). Fixing a broken leg with morphine? Scopes and iron-sights magically being sighted properly when you pick them up?

I like how you modeled the issue with the term "inputs". That is exactly what is missing. But on the same note, we don't want the game degenerating into a runescape or WoW crafting simulator. It could be a slippery slope.

I read somewhere dean referencing the survival mod made for skyrim as being an inspiration for him in developing the wilderness survival aspects of dayz. I played it briefly and it did make you work at maintaining your existence if you chose to live outside city limits.

What do you think would be an effective input method or mechanic for dayz?

 

Succinctly, there are a lot of "actions" present in DayZ but very few "activities". Everything is instant, there is no gradual investment in something or gradual input (which is why I love the idea of a persistent garden). The only input that's given is to initiate an action, then (by virtue of the current system) your character automatically goes about fulfilling that action mostly through fixed animations.

 

I never liked the way vehicle repairs were done in the mod. You had, for example, a tire. In order to install it, you had to have a toolkit (as I'm sure you're aware, not trying to be condescending). But once you brought the tire to the vehicle, you just hit "Repair Left Front Tire" and your character entered an animation, which resulted in the tire's installment every time.

 

You didn't need to actually wrench down the tire. You didn't actually make use of any of the items in this supposed "toolkit". You didn't have to put a jack underneath the vehicle to repair it. You didn't have to mind tire pressure/condition/inflation. The tires were one-size-fits all as well, even for motorcycles! Obviously, there are limits to this in terms of "gameplay" concerns in not being tedious. But there needs to be SOME process to these actions to make them activities.

 

I don't really take issue with the realistic/unrealistic aspects (like Morphine Injectors "fixing" broken legs) so much as I take issue with their ease of use. So, you can have Morphine Injectors fixing broken legs easily, but it has to have a downside (i.e. through potentials for "failure" or infection). This can be done through things like having the player select when/where to inject the morphine (doesn't have to be overly complicated, L or R leg would be a good start).

 

In contrast, you can have things like splints which... for one... are crafted. Then can be applied over a period of time with, perhaps, a higher overall success rate/longevity than morphine. Which would require the player to "set" the fracture and then apply a splint. So not only are these items too easy to use, they also require zero input, are guaranteed successes, and result in the same action being achieved.

Edited March 27, 2014 by Katana67

[Whyherro123 2283]

Improvised backpack and camoflauge should take a little time. Gun cleaning, ammo reloading, cooking, woodland medicines, sewing repairs - probably a bunch you could throw in here. Still need to make the activities 'interesting' so it doesn't become a grind - but like your thought process here.

Damn straight. All of those activities should realistically take a good deal of time, to the point where it might be reality where you sit in camp for a couple of real-life hours maintaining your weapons and gear. Don't want to do weapon maintenance (dis-assembly, cleaning, sighting, zeroing, etc)? Suffer from inaccuracy and unreliability (firearm jams, lowered melee weapon damage, etc) Don't want to maintain your gear? Watch as your clothes have lower protective/capacity qualities, backpacks lose gear from holes and broken zippers, and binos/compassesetc get worn out, scratched and useless. Don't want to spend the time to cook a healthy, hearty meal, and eat junk food and soda instead? Exhibit a depressed immune system, lower energy levels, etc.

I want survival to be hard, not just "open backpack, drink soda, instantly use sewing kit on pants, etc". You should try to SURVIVE, not just live....

[voxframe 31]

Not to derail the great ideas, but I wanted to come back to one of the OPs points about radios.

 

In a "real life" style situation, communications would be a serious concern. It does suck a little bit because of 3rd party chat software that most people use to communicate with their teams. But there's no way around that.

 

I'd like to see some more development in global/local communications. Spawn more radios, give them some different functionality, maybe different models? (Desktop versions found in bases/firestations/hospitals, walkies found randomly)

 

Power should also be a concern. I've seen suggestions about generators, more developped batteries, etc.

Hell I'd love to see something done with the power lines to the towns. They are already in place. Perhaps a method to disable them to knock out a town's power/lights? Abilities to repair them? Town power generation stations that need to be repaired/fueled/etc in order to get things rolling again. (At the same time, I'd like to see some more lethality introduced to power lines as well. Jumped onto transformers and lived... Would be interesting if suddenly BOOM dead) The props are already in the game. Could be interesting programming. Generators creating noise etc as well. Makes them more dangerous to use in a small campsite for attracting trouble.

 

Also I want to second the camping supplies. Fuel (Liquid, not just propane tanks) should be a concern as well.

 

Lastly... DUCT TAPE! Make it do what it does in real life. If I want to tape a flashlight to the gun, let me! If I want to use it to restrain someone, let me. If I'm crazy enough to tape a PU scope to a shotgun... LET ME! lol

[muddyraccoon 176]

We need caves! Anybody?

I would love to explore a cave, just for the feeling. Or maybe a small tunnel through a mountain? Some mines. Bring the map to a new level? Underground e.g. I know that this isn't Minecraft, but the feeling in such a dark cave probably would give some people the chills, if they are implemented well.

 

 

Im there with you!  I love that idea.  No exterior light, means you have to use a flashlight.  It could be like that Multiplayer level in Goldeneye.  Thats one thing you don't hear people say.  Instead of CoD whiners, it could be Goldeneye whiners...

 

Anywho, the idea that a cave could be an assaultable position, or better yet (though low on the realism side, so so sorry everyone, please kill me quick) we could have one cave system throught the map so multiple entrances could exist.  Sorry Dean, CaveZ is My idea (With majority credit to Drunken Knife).

[Katana67 2907]

Damn straight. All of those activities should realistically take a good deal of time, to the point where it might be reality where you sit in camp for a couple of real-life hours maintaining your weapons and gear.

 

I agree with the sentiment of making survival/maintenance activities harder or gradual. But I think we may have to arrive at a middle-ground in terms of time spent doing these things.

 

I personally wouldn't mind spending an hour or so in a shelter performing survival activities. But I doubt the majority of folks would want to invest several hours just keeping their M4 running. But certainly, I think it should take SOME amount of time. Whether it be a few minutes or an hour.

 

Personally, I would like to see more input (rather than just time) involved in survival activities. So that it depends on the proficiency of the player. If you can change a tire out on a truck in five minutes, great! If it takes you ten minutes, that's alright too. I want mechanics implemented which allow the player to exhibit his/her own strengths and weaknesses in survival.

[Dagwood 680]

^^ and rather than having some uniform skill system, it is up to the player to improve their proficiency in completing these tasks through practice. We need a skill curve I guess?

Like working on a car. First time you change your oil or spark plugs, it takes a lot longer than even the second or third time.

[Whyherro123 2283]

I agree with the sentiment of making survival/maintenance activities harder or gradual. But I think we may have to arrive at a middle-ground in terms of time spent doing these things.

 

I personally wouldn't mind spending an hour or so in a shelter performing survival activities. But I doubt the majority of folks would want to invest several hours just keeping their M4 running. But certainly, I think it should take SOME amount of time. Whether it be a few minutes or an hour.

 

Personally, I would like to see more input (rather than just time) involved in survival activities. So that it depends on the proficiency of the player. If you can change a tire out on a truck in five minutes, great! If it takes you ten minutes, that's alright too. I want mechanics implemented which allow the player to exhibit his/her own strengths and weaknesses in survival.

That time was "eyeballed", if you will, and could include wood-gathering (whenever my troop goes camping, firewood duty is a 24/7 detail), shelter building/upkeep, cooking, resting, etc etc. I am not saying it should take 10 hours of real life time to accomplish said activities, just a significant amount of time, as a nod to realism. Plus, there would always be the option of not doing these things, if you just want to run around and gank people, with the result that you will be less effective than someone who is properly prepared.

[Katana67 2907]

^^ and rather than having some uniform skill system, it is up to the player to improve their proficiency in completing these tasks through practice. We need a skill curve I guess?

Like working on a car. First time you change your oil or spark plugs, it takes a lot longer than even the second or third time.

 

I'm saying that the "skill curve" shouldn't be artificial. It should be as natural as possible, as to emphasize the player's skill in accomplishing a task. I hesitate to suggest "mini-games" but that's sort of what I'm getting at in the end, a way in which the individual player's skill is demonstrated in accomplishing a task.

 

For example, actually torquing down each nut on a tire.

 

Personally, given Rocket's favoritism shown to games like SS13 and KSP, these sort of involved mechanics (which aren't necessarily traditional "mini-games") are something that they'd be in favor of implementing later on.

Edited March 27, 2014 by Katana67

[pillock 850]

In a "real life" style situation, communications would be a serious concern. It does suck a little bit because of 3rd party chat software that most people use to communicate with their teams. But there's no way around that.

 

One possible way to mitigate this (it's not a total solution) would be to perma-lock direct chat OPEN. So if you're talking on your TS channel to your team, you're also blaring your voice all over the in-game Direct Chat.

[Katana67 2907]

One possible way to mitigate this (it's not a total solution) would be to perma-lock direct chat OPEN. So if you're talking on your TS channel to your team, you're also blaring your voice all over the in-game Direct Chat.

 

I like this approach a lot actually. Very good idea. 

 

I also think they need to do a better job with the in-game chat in terms of distance and object audio occlusion. I was contacted by a server admin over direct whilst looting the NWAF barracks. He was outside, yet it sounded like he was right effing next to me. This could bring, in conjunction with your suggestion, additional use to hand signals and actually whispering.

Edited March 27, 2014 by Katana67

[crazykilla420 11]

Why is there a picture of the dayz mod? this is for standalone if you are talking about the mod please move it to the correct location.

[Whyherro123 2283]

Why is there a picture of the dayz mod? this is for standalone if you are talking about the mod please move it to the correct location.

What are you talking about?

 

Also, sure thing, Mr. Forum Police, sir

Edited March 27, 2014 by Whyherro123

[Katana67 2907]

Why is there a picture of the dayz mod? this is for standalone if you are talking about the mod please move it to the correct location.

 

Congrats, you've taken issue with 1/4 of the pictures... and completely disregarded the points made in the actual content of the thread.

[Whyherro123 2283]

Unless you are autistic that is a picture from the dayz mod not standalone and this is the standalone forum not the mod douche.

What does a picture have to do with absolutely anything this thread is about? If the thread was about anything to do with the mod, then yes, you would have an issue worth bringing up. But literally, the only thing those pictures are for are for flavor, or for showing locations that were in the mod, and no longer in the standalone. 

Also, I called you "Mr. Forum Police" because of your demanding tone. Now I am reporting you for your insulting one. Enjoy.

[crazykilla420 11]

LOLOLOLOL

SmashT has hidden a post of yours from Go to the forest of trees 
Today, 06:50 PM

[SmashT 10907]

Why is there a picture of the dayz mod? this is for standalone if you are talking about the mod please move it to the correct location.

 

He's using the images as a visual aid for his ideas, he's not talking about the mod...

[crazykilla420 11]

Also, I called you "Mr. Forum Police" because of your demanding tone. Now I am reporting you for your insulting one. Enjoy.

Shit my bad i forgot you could hear me because i am totally speaking to you... lol

[pilgrim* 3514]

In the mod, literally the only source of water in the NW corner was the pond south of Skalka. Both of which, no longer exist.

 

There is a big lake in the NW corner now - it has no water in it

There is a large lake further east of that, near the water tower a klick north of the railway line - it has no water in it

You can see them on the map

There are 'riverbeds' or 'streambeds' - they have no water in them

 

Yes - there is one well north of NEAF - that is why I said NO Water north of 020 S

(clarification: the "north" is the north of the map, I hope we agree?, its not the west or the middle or the south-east, ok? .. its the North)

 

OK - You draw a horizontal line from one side of the map to the other going through Kraznostav

Above the line you have ONE QUARTER of the WHOLE map area. 25% of the map

don't take my word for it, go to the map and check it out.

in that 25% there is ONE water point. You mentioned it.

If you ignore that well, then there is no other water right down to 030 S (that's more than 25% of the map, OK? we can agree)

 

If you think you can find water elswhere above that line - the water you mentioned in your first reply - then tell us about it. Take three canteens with you, you'll need them.

 

Guess there will be water up there in the dry creeks and lakes one day, just as much as there is in the south and mid-map, but until then all that wilderness is out of bounds to campers.

 

xx pilgrim

[Katana67 2907]

snip

 

Not talking about NEAF at all, I'm talking about NWAF.

 

And one's definition of north is relative/subjective. For instance, a lot of people consider anywhere above Stary to be "the north". Some even consider everywhere above/inland from the coast as "the north".

 

And what I'm saying is that the location of water doesn't have to BE IN THE NORTH for it to be used. If you go by the line you suggested being drawn across from Krasnostav, there's at least seven or eight wells alone along that line (two in Krasnostav, one north of NEAF, one in Olsha, one in the NW corner, two north of NWAF, two in Gvozdno). Those can be accessed EASILY from your definition of the north.

 

You're confusing the presence of water with ease of access.

Edited March 27, 2014 by Katana67

[pilgrim* 3514]

Not talking about NEAF at all, I'm talking about NWAF.

 

And one's definition of north is relative/subjective. For instance, a lot of people consider anywhere above Stary to be "the north". Some even consider everywhere above/inland from the coast as "the north".

 

And what I'm saying is that the location of water doesn't have to BE IN THE NORTH for it to be used. If you go by the line you suggested being drawn across from Krasnostav, there's at least seven or eight wells alone along that line (two in Krasnostav, one north of NEAF, one in Olsha, one in the NW corner, two north of NWAF, two in Gvozdno) . Those can be accessed EASILY from your definition of the north.

 

You're confusing the presence of water with ease of access.

 

You're confused, friend, if anyone is.

 

Let's locate Kraznostav at 111 030  (you can read map references I guess?)

 

OK - to end the argument - give me the MAP REFERENCES of any wells to the North of the 030 line

 

(remember the one exception at 119 021, I already mentioned that, you read my post so you know why).

 

(Here's a "non-subjective" clue : the 030 line is a LINE ok? it goes all the way from one side of the map to the other).

 

Everything on the map is either North of it or South of it.

 

Take your time.

 

Thanks

 

And thanks for your input

 

xx pilgrim

Edited March 27, 2014 by pilgrim

[pillock 850]

The point is, you don't need to be carrying a backpack full of canteens to survive up there - you can just jog down to the barns and lock-ups that spawn cans of drink, or a bit further to get to the wells.

 

Or you can catch rain water in your canteens now.

[Katana67 2907]

The point is, you don't need to be carrying a backpack full of canteens to survive up there - you can just jog down to the barns and lock-ups that spawn cans of drink, or a bit further to get to the wells.

 

Or you can catch rain water in your canteens now.

 

This.

 

snip

 

Helps to not be condescending. Thanks. See the above post that I quoted.

 

Your line is irrelevant, look at the line and then look at what's immediately north/south of it (within 1000m). Tons of wells.

 

You're acting as if the north doesn't have easy access to water. It does, see the aforementioned wells. I'm not going to give you exact coordinates when I've given you relevant locations. YOU can see for yourself.

 

I'm not going to spend any more time making a point I've already made several times... which is... THE NORTH HAS EASY ACCESS TO WATER REGARDLESS OF WHETHER WATER IS ACTUALLY PRESENT IN THE NORTH. Capitalized for emphasis, not emotion.

 

Moreover, I don't even believe the north SHOULD have easy access to water. Which is a separate argument entirely.

Edited March 27, 2014 by Katana67

[Gdaddy22 299]

I will keep this thread away from dying until it's added to the game

[Dagwood 680]

What are these mini-game like mechanics from these other games you referenced katana?

[pilgrim* 3514]

Helps to not be condescending. Thanks.

 

Your line is irrelevant, look at the line and then look at what's immediately north/south of it (within 1000m). Tons of wells.

 

I hoped you might see your way to giving me the map references to the tons of wells north of that line - just to help me out, between friends.

 

Well, I'll drop it I guess - I was going to put here some photos of forest in the mod and forest in SA, to show the difference, but I don't want to start another polemic that goes nowhere. Obviously, as you pointed out, the new artwork is very nicely done, it is not in any way realistic european forest, but that doesn't matter.. it looks great.

it was the gameplay that interested me in this thread.

 

I think a number of your points are completely valid. I gave you beans for them, if you noticed (and also if you didn't notice).

 

I Have A Simple Mind - I still think it would be a good idea to put water in the lakes instead of just painting the bottoms green, but what do I know? I'm not a dev HERE, I'm just a guy passing in the street.

 

xx