AKM

[gibonez 3633]

Gibonez, there is no doubt in my mind that the current implementation of the mosin in DAYZ is simply a place holder...  Once a true precision rifle capable of mounting modern bipods and optics is added into the game, expect the MOA on the mosin to be increased and for it to be far more limited on what can be mounted.

 

I hope.

 

It bugs me so much to see mosins being bubbaed in the game.

 

Communist mosins should remain authentic with their original features and the grand majority should be iron sights only.

[kaix12 34]

But not nearly 90% are hugely innacurate, yes there is variety but not all mosins can only be accurate once being modified. Its like me sayibg that if I get a type-56 AK, which was never issued and put into storage and Some people say they are pos and are not accurate weapons unless I make modifications etc, and then I get a pp-19, and because it is "modern manufactured" it wkll be more accurate, even at 300m? Just because the type 56 is a pos because it is a cheap chinese clone?

Edited March 21, 2014 by Kaxii

[rickenbacker 190]

Most sources I've researched (admittedly online) state 4-4.5 MOA for a new, unblemished Mosin-Nagant. The AKM seems to be capable of 3.5-4. So the accuracy is about the same. Even the AR family, and thus the M4, are only a little bit more accurate than that. In actual practice, you probably wouldn't notice the difference between the assault rifles we're getting in the game, all the rifles would seem about as accurate at any kind of realistic range. 

[hannibaldaplaya 1095]

If the AKM is the next M4, I will be so agitated. They need to fix the dispersion.

[haven923 65]

Finally, people that recognize the mosin as garbage.  When I found out that the Mosin Nagant was the only sniper rifle in the game at the present, I didn't know what to say.  A weapon that can be used as a club more efficiently than a rifle being probably the most casualty producing weapon?  I got used to it over time, but still didn't like it.  Mosin Nagants are garbage.  You could buy one for ~$50.  It is the ultimate poor man's weapon.  M4s are really accurate.  M16s are even more accurate.  They are garbage in DayZ, though, while the real garbage is praised.  I don't mean to rant all this hate, but it is the sad truth.  A lot of guys in my platoon are gun enthusiasts and NONE of us take the Mosin seriously.  An SVD would have been a MUCH better first sniper in the game, and even that rifle is garbage!  Unless the Mosin was machined in the past 10 years and updated with modern ballistic science, you are not getting a good weapon.  The fact that my mosin in-game ALWAYS shoots left and down is probably the only bit of realism to the gun: It doesn't shoot straight.

[Leo Balzac 190]

I don't hate the rifle.

 

It is just the truth.

 

Go online and see what the average groupings are for people who shoot stock mosins with surplus ammo.

 

Most are 4 inch groups + at 100 yards.

This is probably because mosin ammo is so corrosive. Ruining the rifling.

As far as the russian sniper remember the gun might have been accurate back in 1944 when it was re manufactured but in 2014 time has taken its toll on the weapon and the rifling is probably ruined and the crown cracked.

 

Don't base ww2 reported (Soviet propaganda) with modern day proven accuracy.

 

 

Meanwhile a high quality ak will group substantially smaller groups.

 

 

A bone stock mosin is not an accurate weapon.

 

The only reason it has gained so much praise world wide is because its reliable and more importantly it is super cheap and cheap to shoot.

 

Mosins are not tact drivers give me a bone stock mosin and any modern manufactured akm. I can paint far smaller groups with the akm.

 

Mosins are just inherently inaccurate, everything from the bad stock that causes pressure points on the barrel to the miss matched parts that is the case with 9/10 mosins you see where different parts from different mosins have been put together and they don't quite fit right.

 

Even the surplus ammo you find contributes to the poor accuracy of mosins the steel cased ammo doesnt always fully expand inside the gun and you have extreme variances in muzzle velocity. Even with ammo in the same batch.

 

A good mosin I mean a perfect pristine mosin would group 3 inches at 100 yards.

 

Your average non modified stock mosin will paint much bigger groups 4-5 inch range at the same distance.

 

I honestly do not understand where this myth of mosins being elite sniper rifles that can hit a dime at 1000 yards comes from. No self respecting Military would arm their troops with mosins.

 

The mosin is a SHTF weapon a last resort rifle that fires cheap ammo and is reliable, you will never see any sane person wasting time and resources somehow bubbaing a mosin with a modern day scope that costs 20x the price of the gun and somehow jury rigging a modern day bipod into it.

 

 

So please lets stop the false myth of mosins being elite precision rifles they simply arent.

 

 

But it is.

 

Range does not matter.

 

at 100 yards the mosin will be just as inaccurate is it is at 1000 yards

 

That 4 inch group at 100 yards turns into a 40 inch group at 1000 yards.

 

BTW I am not saying all mosins are inaccurate, I would say 90 percent of them are the other 10 percent that are accurate are the bubbaed mosins that people buy for 100 dollars then spend 700 dollars glass bedding the stock, buying custom parts and gunsmithing it to take modern day optics, recrowning and refinishing the barrel.

 

 

You certainly do seem to have a hate on for the Mosin. I am a mosin fan (I own 4 IRL from various states of production) and realize the limitations of the firearm. Can I get a Mosin to fire consistently at less than 3 MOA, yes, but it requires a fair amount of effort. Can I get a mosin to fire 3.5-4 consistently? Damn right, give me 15 minutes, some card stock, oil and sandpaper. The mosin, to be truly accurate in the modern sense, does require some effort. To turn a poorly accurate mosin into a decently accurate one does NOT require a gunsmith. It's called shimming and fitting the stock, which can be done with cardstock, oil and sandpaper. The mosin has a relatively thin-walled barrel, so free-floating it usually makes accuracy worse, the needed fix is a consistent pressure point around 2/3s down the length of the barrel.

 

Your comment about a cracked crown made me laugh, IF you found one with a cracked crown and shot it, you'd be classified as an idiot. I have sorted through dozens of crates of mosins and have yet to see one with a crack in the crown. If you did find one, all you'd need to fix it is a hacksaw and a chamfering tool. 

 

I do agree with your modern optics point, putting a LRS scope on a mosin requires a lot more work than what one would think. A bipod? You could bubba that sucker on in 5 minutes.

 

Anyway, tl;dr time. I own many mosins, I like rehabing mosins, they can be made fairly accurate, fairly quickly with stock components. They will never shoot sub-moa.

[Forrelist 236]

I usually avoid picking up the M4 , unless I find some nice attachments, but I think the AKM will be an 'always-pickup' for me. :)

[HazZarD87 166]

AKM in the mod was a great hard-hitter even though it's sights weren't all that.. The punch made up for that. The accuracy business is horrible across the board for all weapons now anyway, unless you get some nice attachements going. That does need fixing.

[applejaxc 2500]

Aks are quite accurate.

 

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... sorry. Modern AKs are "accurate." The unserviced crap locked up in a Chernorussian civilian's home dialed to 50 meters and innacturately insane-ass windage firing 10 year old, similarly unserviced 7.63x31 in the hands of random survivors? Yeah. Accurate. I don't care what your MOA is if your iron sights make you aim ten inches off-target.

Edited March 21, 2014 by Applejaxc

[gibonez 3633]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... sorry. Modern AKs are "accurate." The unserviced crap locked up in a Chernorussian civilian's home dialed to 50 meters and innacturately insane-ass windage firing 10 year old, similarly unserviced 7.63x31 in the hands of random survivors? Yeah. Accurate. I don't care what your MOA is if your iron sights make you aim ten inches off-target.

 

Then the ak would group the exact same ten inches off the target.

 

Misaligned sights doesnt make the weapon inaccurate it just makes it group elsewhere than intended.

[thedogfoodyayho 295]

Gibonez - The mosin isn't shit. 

Do you actaully own one? I have both the 91/30 and m44, both of which are pinpoint accurate at 400m and 300m respectively. on a Human-sized target. I can hit 5/5 on the upper body, no prob. With my friend's scope rifle, i can hit up to 600m. Admittedly, they both all have original parts, but i have never seen a Russian one with mixed parts. With surplus ammo i do get alot less accuracy, though.

Sure, some are shit. But have any of these "Tests" taken 20 rifles and tested them all? 

 

But anyway, back in their day Mosins more than proved themselves. That was when they were brand new, firing higher-quality ammo. 37million were made. If they were such shit, then why the fuck wouldn't the Ruusians have switched to Mausers? They weren't that much more expensive. For a rifle that can be well over 70 years old and a design that originated 130 years ago,, their modern performance is what you would expect.

 

Finally, people that recognize the mosin as garbage.  When I found out that the Mosin Nagant was the only sniper rifle in the game at the present, I didn't know what to say.  A weapon that can be used as a club more efficiently than a rifle being probably the most casualty producing weapon?  I got used to it over time, but still didn't like it.  Mosin Nagants are garbage.  You could buy one for ~$50.  It is the ultimate poor man's weapon.  M4s are really accurate.  M16s are even more accurate.  They are garbage in DayZ, though, while the real garbage is praised.  I don't mean to rant all this hate, but it is the sad truth.  A lot of guys in my platoon are gun enthusiasts and NONE of us take the Mosin seriously.  An SVD would have been a MUCH better first sniper in the game, and even that rifle is garbage!  Unless the Mosin was machined in the past 10 years and updated with modern ballistic science, you are not getting a good weapon.  The fact that my mosin in-game ALWAYS shoots left and down is probably the only bit of realism to the gun: It doesn't shoot straight.

Svd is shit? *Cough

It isn't a fucking sniper rifle.

The mosin isn't a sniper rifle.

There are no sniper rifles ingame.

The mosin is a battle rifle.

 

 

No... Just no... While I love the AKM, it is in no way more accurate than the Mosin, I know you hate that rifle, but my good they aren't all POS, if they were all less accurate than AKM's by that much, then the Russian snipers wouldn't of hit barely as many germans as they did, and they soviets would of fitted all their AK 47's with scopes and replaced the Mosin a lot earlier than the 1960's. I admit some are not as accurate, but in no way are they all...

Becuase there were never any sniper rifles used by the Soviet Union. The purpose of the Scoped mosin post-war was to increase the effective range of the infantry squad to 600m, which the Mosin did well, but the Dragunov could do better. During the war, to, Soviet "Snipers" usaully engaged targets at only a few hundered meters.

Edited March 22, 2014 by thedogfoodyayho

[gibonez 3633]

Gibonez - The mosin isn't shit. 

Do you actaully own one? I have both the 91/30 and m44, both of which are pinpoint accurate at 400m and 300m respectively. on a Human-sized target.

 

 

I only said the Mosin nagant is shit compared to any modern production hunting or precision rifle such as a Savage 10, or a Remington 700.

 

Also the mosins accuracy you described fits exactly with what I said. The mosin is around a 4 moa gun and with that accuracy consistently hitting a man sized target at 300-400m is very doable.

 

My problem is that the mosin in game is far too accurate people are out there making shots at 1200m with the mosin in game something that just wouldn't be possible with a stock mosin, using stock ammo.

 

Real sin however is that the m4 is far less accurate than the mosin when that is not the case in real life.

[-Gews- 7443]

Becuase there were never any sniper rifles used by the Soviet Union.

There's no difference in "sniper rifleness" between a sniper's Mosin with PU and a No.4 Mk1(T), M1903A4, K98k with ZF42, etc. Those were all sniper rifles used by snipers. If the "sniper" Mosin with PU isn't a sniper rifle, that would mean sniper rifles did not exist until after WW2.

In regards to the SVD: the design of the rifle and the Soviet doctrine best fits the "designated marksmen" concept.

However the "S" in "SVD" stands for "sniper" and it is used by snipers in many countries, and I don't think the term "designated marksman" even existed prior to the 1980s. So I don't consider it incorrect to call it a sniper rifle, it's semantics. It depends who's hands it's in.

They are garbage in DayZ, though, while the real garbage is praised.

You are right about this: it seems completely backwards.

The most valued weapons should be M4A1 > SKS > Mosin.

Instead it seems to be Mosin > SKS > M4A1.

[haven923 65]

There's no difference in "sniper rifleness" between a sniper's Mosin with PU and a No.4 Mk1(T), M1903A4, K98k with ZF42, etc. Those were all sniper rifles used by snipers. If the "sniper" Mosin with PU isn't a sniper rifle, that would mean sniper rifles did not exist until after WW2.

In regards to the SVD: the design of the rifle and the Soviet doctrine best fits the "designated marksmen" concept.

However the "S" in "SVD" stands for "sniper" and it is used by snipers in many countries, and I don't think the term "designated marksman" even existed prior to the 1980s. So I don't consider it incorrect to call it a sniper rifle, it's semantics. It depends who's hands it's in.

You are right about this: it seems completely backwards.

The most valued weapons should be M4A1 > SKS > Mosin.

Instead it seems to be Mosin > SKS > M4A1.

If they add the M1903 I would drop my fully loaded pristine camo Mosin with LRS and 120+ 7.62 rounds and grab one in a heartbeat.  I am familiar with the rifle (we had them in JROTC) and absolutely love it.  In one of the wars, I think it was Korea or Vietnam that had tales of a sniper using an M1903.  He had the most confirmed sniper kills of any marksman in the war and used only iron sights.  True beast mode.

Edited March 22, 2014 by Haven923

[HazZarD87 166]

If they add the M1903 I would drop my fully loaded pristine camo Mosin with LRS and 120+ 7.62 rounds and grab one in a heartbeat.  I am familiar with the rifle (we had them in JROTC) and absolutely love it.  In one of the wars, I think it was Korea or Vietnam that had tales of a sniper using an M1903.  He had the most confirmed sniper kills of any marksman in the war and used only iron sights.  True beast mode.

 

Talking about beast mode with iron sights only. This guy would agree... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simo_H%C3%A4yh%C3%A4 ;-)

[rickenbacker 190]

Finally, people that recognize the mosin as garbage.  When I found out that the Mosin Nagant was the only sniper rifle in the game at the present, I didn't know what to say.  A weapon that can be used as a club more efficiently than a rifle being probably the most casualty producing weapon?  I got used to it over time, but still didn't like it.  Mosin Nagants are garbage.  You could buy one for ~$50.  It is the ultimate poor man's weapon.  M4s are really accurate.  M16s are even more accurate.  They are garbage in DayZ, though, while the real garbage is praised.  I don't mean to rant all this hate, but it is the sad truth.  A lot of guys in my platoon are gun enthusiasts and NONE of us take the Mosin seriously.  An SVD would have been a MUCH better first sniper in the game, and even that rifle is garbage!  Unless the Mosin was machined in the past 10 years and updated with modern ballistic science, you are not getting a good weapon.  The fact that my mosin in-game ALWAYS shoots left and down is probably the only bit of realism to the gun: It doesn't shoot straight.

 

It's all due to the very strange and counterintuitive "cone of fire" system used to simulate accuracy. In the game, putting a bipod or a compensator on your rifle, somehow magically makes the barrel shoot straighter!

 

The Mosin is probably the only weapon in the game with a somewhat realistic dispersion, though. The M4 should have slightly less than the Mosin, but currently it's more like a garden hose when it comes to accuracy. Unless you put magical Accuracy +1 accessories on it, to make it closer to reality. 

[thedogfoodyayho 295]

There's no difference in "sniper rifleness" between a sniper's Mosin with PU and a No.4 Mk1(T), M1903A4, K98k with ZF42, etc. Those were all sniper rifles used by snipers. If the "sniper" Mosin with PU isn't a sniper rifle, that would mean sniper rifles did not exist until after WW2.

In regards to the SVD: the design of the rifle and the Soviet doctrine best fits the "designated marksmen" concept.

However the "S" in "SVD" stands for "sniper" and it is used by snipers in many countries, and I don't think the term "designated marksman" even existed prior to the 1980s. So I don't consider it incorrect to call it a sniper rifle, it's semantics. It depends who's hands it's in.

You are right about this: it seems completely backwards.

The most valued weapons should be M4A1 > SKS > Mosin.

Instead it seems to be Mosin > SKS > M4A1.

They aren't actaul sniper rifles. All they are battle rifles with scopes. So they aren't true Sniper rifles, as they weren't designed for that task. 

The SVD is always said to be a sniper rifle, but to the Soviets at that time "Snipers" were just infantry with scoped rifles engaging targets beyond the range of the SKS and AK. Indeed during WWII they issued scoped SVTs to best shots for "Sniping", though these weren't the type of "Snipers" that roamed Stalingrad that propaganda said they were. so that is why it has "Sniper" in its name. That doesn't make it "Sniper's rifle" as i'm sure you know the difference Between a Sniper and a DM.

 

And yeah, it's perfectly suited for use by real snipers and often is, even if at shorter ranges than weapons designed for that role. 

Edited March 22, 2014 by thedogfoodyayho

[taco86 156]

I would love to see an SVT-40 added to this game as a "rare" spawn.

[-Gews- 7443]

They aren't actaul sniper rifles. All they are battle rifles with scopes. So they aren't true Sniper rifles, as they weren't designed for that task.

I disagree, "sniper rifles" are not limited to rifles that were purely designed for precision sniping from the moment of their conception.

Here's some excerpts from a 1946 book. The author is repeatedly using the term "sniper rifle"... this is way before any of the purpose-built-from-the-ground-up "sniper rifles" had even been made.

Two full decades before even the M40 was adopted.

Is he supposed to use that term "sniper rifle" for something which didn't even exist?

There isn't ANY OFFICIAL DEFINITION of what exactly constitutes a "sniper rifle". This isn't a term with an exact, clearly defined meaning. No one says "a sniper rifle must have a McMillan stock and a heavy barrel profile". What EXACTLY defines a true "sniper rifle" is merely an opinion, nothing more, not like "clip" instead of "magazine".

In my opinion:

-if it's a rifle built or intended specifically for sniping it's a sniper rifle

-if it's a rifle officially issued to snipers it's a sniper rifle

I consider this a "sniper rifle" (used by snipers):

I consider this a "precision rifle" (not used by snipers):

[thedogfoodyayho 295]

I'm not saying they aren't sniper rifles, they are not >True< sniper rifles. (M40, SV-98, ect) they are simply rifles converted into sniper's weapons. 

[gibonez 3633]

I consider this a "precision rifle" (not used by snipers):

 

Would be amazing to have something like that in dayz.

 

That appears to be a remington 700 with a harris bipod , mc millian a3 stock, and a schmidt and bender pm ii.

 

Am I close ?

 

Stocks on a precision rifle or some of the few accesories that actually change the accuracy in a precision rifle.

 

Getting rid of the standard houge stock on a remington 700 and putting it into a stock with aluminum bedding blocks like the accuracy international stocks or the mcmillan stocks will give the rifle a tiny bit more precision nothing too drastic but at long range that tiny improvement could be a hit or a miss.

[-Gews- 7443]

That appears to be a remington 700 with a harris bipod , mc millian a3 stock, and a schmidt and bender pm ii.

 

Am I close ?

I just typed in "GAP rifle" and scrolled down a bit. Not a GAP though, BlackOps Precision RECON.

Specs: http://blackopsprecision.com/docs/RECON-SpecSheet.pdf

[hombrecz 832]

Just please do not add .50 cal or some crazy good modern sniper rifles to the DayZ SA.

Leave that for when SA is released for modders, then all kinds of gun crazy mods will surely appear in no time.

 

Btw I think it's obvious, that gun accuracy in general is placeholder atm.

[gibonez 3633]

Just please do not add .50 cal or some crazy good modern sniper rifles to the DayZ SA.

Leave that for when SA is released for modders, then all kinds of gun crazy mods will surely appear in no time.

 

Btw I think it's obvious, that gun accuracy in general is placeholder atm.

 

I sure hope it is.

 

Although I fail to understand why something like a guns accuracy would ever even be put in as a place holder.

 

Weapon accuracy is information easily found online .

 

I would have figured it would be best to just get the weapon accuracy right the first time instead of screwing the gunplay badly like it is currently.

[hombrecz 832]

I sure hope it is.

 

Although I fail to understand why something like a guns accuracy would ever even be put in as a place holder.

 

Weapon accuracy is information easily found online .

 

I would have figured it would be best to just get the weapon accuracy right the first time instead of screwing the gunplay badly like it is currently.

 

Maybe they want to develop something more complex then just setting gun's accuracy.

Maybing adding of weapon sway, noticeable recoil and stuff like that.

 

But that's just my thoughts, it's just Devs who knows for sure.