Plea for Proper Community Management

[PhilB 230]

First some backstory: I just typed this opus and after it wouldn't load I realized that while I was typing away the thread itself devolved and was locked. Which I am totally in agreement with. However Lok responded at one point in the thread and what he said struck me and truly impassioned me. The thread was certainly DOA but he touched on something and I felt compelled to respond at length. The original thread no longer matters and the last bit is my "f you" to the OP which is prolly better that thread was locked before it was posted but I left it in because I feel it is compelling and not too obscene, more a proclamation of my beliefs by way of retort. 

 

Thankfully I copied my rant before pressing "pos"t so I could paste it in a new thread, oh yeah!

 

So below is Lok's post and my hypothetical reply.

 

To summarize the post I'm doing this because there is clearly an immediate need and reality is Dean leaves in a year and I love this game and know that it needs a "face" or a "guide" or something of that nature that the player base can count on.

 

More clearly, my suggestion is something more mechanistic, like for instance an auto post on the forums every single day if even just to say, "There is absolutely nothing of consequence to report today." Just so the community can feel that if info was available, they can rest assured they didn't miss it. Random twitters about fundamental stuff, some letsplay with Sacriel sort of suggested as a regular thing but I haven't heard anymore, maybe I missed that or didn't, who fucking knows, hopefully you catch my drift about maybe it's not so good that a DayZ player needs be a veritable sleuth to find out all the latest info . . . so sorry to be so caustic, you know I love you guys!

 

Lok's reply to OP (again, thread was locked and I'm not interested in rehashing the thread, but simply changing it to a community plea for Rocket to reconsider his stance on "Community Management" and my general argument for why this should be) OMG, READ LAST SENTENCE OR DON'T RESPOND TO POST, PLEASE!

 

Hello there

 

Ill have to pull you up on that. Give us proof when you make statements like this.

 

I too agree the mere yell of ALPHA! and (rabid fanboi-ism) is not enough in many arguments and discussions, but on the flip side nor is being a "hater" and making mountains out of molehills.

 

I dont see where you get the snails pace of development. Compared to many games the development is very speedy.

 

My only real gripe is the devs lack of regular communication that feeds visibly through all forms of communication. That is one area which could be IMHO improved. I dont have a solution to that though so dont make a song and dance about it.

 

Keeping it real is a good ideal but its a blade that cuts both ways.

 

Rgds

 

LoK

 

 

 

 

 

 

My aborted reply

 

 

 

"""Hey Lok,

 

I can't help but earnestly reply. Especially since another mod expressed a similar thought just recently on another thread (sorry memory and skill fail me in the department of citation, maybe boneboys?)

 

I know Dean's got a theory about community relations and "third party dissemination/dilution" problem. But I highly suggest you guys attempt a serious change in his mind about this. 

 

I love how Dean goes about things. Because I know he tries to follow from first principles to good decisions. 90% of the time this way leads him on a right path. Everything I know tells me he's a reasonable guy and he knows no single person is correct 100% of the time. It's not that his decision making is bad but that he needs to step back and check some of his premises (Randian I know, forgive me, unintentional)

 

So one must simply convince him that excellent community relations isn't "against" or "a hindrance to DayZ" but in fact more deserving to DayZ than any other game that's ever come before.

 

Dean's got a problem with community relations. And he's right! But not because it is a bad idea, but because no one has done it correctly yet. I agree with the desire for a "real dialogue", but that isn't just about one person or even two! There's many of us and . . . oh my regnal papa, forgive my heresy, but we are perfectly happy to have a conversation about DayZ in which Dean isn't present, genuflecting, so sorry, lol.

 

As a too long life-long gamer, I never miss the opportunity to say how MUCH DayZ does right. So if DayZ can do so many things right, why haven't we the collective balls and temerity to think that we could also finally do community relations right as well? 

 

As a finished product, DayZ goes live in about 9 months or so, right? Coincidentally, that is also the approximate time Dean will be leaving Bohemia to do other cool shit, right? Obviously some decisions need to be made at some point; you can't argue with that, can you? 

 

SA is creeping up on 2 million sales. Wow, right? But not really when you consider the potential. All the forumers who wonder about the butt load of cash this baby has racked in so far and suspect that not all of those dollar resources aren't currently committed to development must consider that a forthcoming Full Release ad campaign is wise and necessary. Funds must be allocated for this. There is nothing wrong with 8 million sign ups and 2-3 million regular users. If GTA is a guidepost, then more dollars always means a better game. The only caveat here is that the developer has to supply the cajones to deliver.

 

I'm tldr'ing as the kids say . .  But so important this observation that although OP is certainly making a dance and creating a mountain out of a molehill, there is some faint, blinking light that OP exposes that compelled you to respond. You even conceded that. That there is "improvement to be had" when it comes to community management.

 

In summation, I'm attempting three things here.

 

1. As the "typical fan", I agree with you. Improvements would be great!

 

2. Don't get discouraged and cop out with, "I don't have an answer". It ain't rocket science and you a cool dude, prolly smarter than most rocket scientist so I say, "Have at!" Let's get a proper media presence for DayZ already.

 

3. I'm writing a response directly to Lok but purposefully not a PM because I'm always attempting to generate some "pull" for where this game might be going. And always trying to find something positive and actionable out of even the shittiest of threads, lol. Because, even though OP's general thoughts are a disgust to my whole being, he does have a point.

 

Above for Lok.

 

Now for OP!

 

I found some subtext in your spew that I thought was worthwhile, but your text was superficially about me! You are complaining about fanboys! Well you got one right here, homie. 

 

Here's my deal: You complain that I only praise every last tidbit. That ain't true. And that's why I took the opportunity to lay down one of my "complaints" in your thread. Just to show you that the most ardent fans have a shit tone of gripes. More than you! I can rattle off 100+ improvements I'd like to see. So yeah, I can say that dashboard is corny as fuck, but I still appreciate a Lambo when I see one!"""""

 

So that's my peace on that. I loved the sort of "small business" cuteness of the last few years but know there is a reality where this would all be better if it assumed a more "professional" atmosphere. (using those terms loosely, don't kill me on that)

 

I was sort of expecting at this point things like officially organized SurviverGameZ and such. I know that is a bit much to ask, but I'm hoping to generate some consensus among the more sophisticated forumers here who might go, "Exactly, great position." Just that this thing is bigger than Dean Hall and bigger than all of us, and thus requires some bigger thinking, and let's not be afraid to think big.

Edited March 16, 2014 by PhilB

[Grimey Rick 3417]

[Irish. 4886]

So they should hire a separate community manager to tell us that they are currently working on things.. in an alpha?

 

I go with Rick on this one. Hands up.. go ahead. Take what you need. I wont fight back.

 

Edited March 16, 2014 by lrish

[PhilB 230]

Oops. I hadn't considered you fellas would follow me or know what I was talking about, lol.

 

Except, please don't get me in trouble because I've learned to tread lightly and that is my intent.

 

My attempt is to sort of agree with your sentiments but direct them in a more constructive path than just, "This game sucks. . .blah"

 

Hope you understand. 

 

Also my DayZ purism is to be taken lightly. Yes, I may vomit at your 3rd personing, billion vehicle spawning, no join or kick ways, but I also love all you guys. 

[PhilB 230]

And also maybe a little grist to get the mind thinking about this part of DayZ for the long term. 

 

I wonder, do you think it inappropriate to "talk shop" in the forums? 

 

I would argue that I represent two people here. One person is Phil Baggers the player character as whom I post. The other is the anonymous irl person who bought the game. They each have their own rubric by which they judge the game. This is huge to me, this thought. In part because no online game before this got me thinking about such things.

 

Anyone else interested in this sort of madness?

 

Anyway, I feel compelled to intermix the two perspectives at will in post format as I feel it represents a fuller picture. So I give you my adoration as a player but I also give the most horrible critical eye as a consumer. nuff said.

[kichilron 8550]

I think at this point it's quite undeniable that it has caused a stir within the community and he has admitted multiple times that he's not the best when it comes to PR. I don't think you can hold it against him, as he's been pretty much thrown into that position having to do everything on his own.

 

Whilst it isn't necessarily a bad thing I don't feel like these very forums are getting enough attention. This isn't supposed to be one of those rants about rocket being on reddit or Twitter all the time, because frankly I don't care much about that. I do care about the moderators on here, though.

 

It has been a nice ride and I have quite enjoyed my time on these forums since the very beginning, pretty much. I mostly don't even remember all the fun shit that went down on here, but I do see where it's heading at the moment. It has been all good and nice while it was a community project, no matter how big it was or still is. It still was a communityproject not needing strict moderation too much.

 

But now it is a standalone game and I still don't see any changes in the moderation team. The BI-forums have a lot of moderators and are quite strict and the moderationteam on here is still being pretty lenient about certain things. This is not to talk shit against the moderationteam, it's more about how it's being organised from above. Main reason I am not here to say anything about the moderators, as I consider quite a few of them my friends. I work together with them every single day at other places and I can understand why they're exhausted at times.

 

DayZ is now a Standalone game and the Moderators are still the same guys (with even less manpower overall) than the ones we started out with when the forums and the mod itself started. No new staff is being recruited and these forums are heading nowhere. Sometimes I go around reporting obvious trollthreads and spambots, but nothing happens, becauser there's noone online for a prolonged amount of time. This isn't the fault of the (only) Administrator nor the Moderation-Team. I wouldn't want to switch places with Boneboys, seeing as he's the only one managing shit on here. A community as big as this one deserves more help from their own project manager and the company that stands behind it and quite frankly more than a single Administrator is needed to manage a community like this.

 

Same goes for the Moderators, there are simply not enough to keep these forums flowing. When I talk to single Moderators and they come home to be greeted by far too many reports because there are not enough Moderators around I think something needs to change. You now are selling this game and people come here expecting help, seeing as these forums are official. Often enough this help doesn't come and instead the community jumps in to either help or simply scream "ALPHA!" which in itself isn't really helpful, but due to the lack of moderation nothing else if left to do.

 

Sorry about my rant and if I come across as a stupid idiot, but I don't feel like this place is getting the attention it deserves, as it used to be a great place to be and a lot of (longterm) communitymembers have turned their back because nothing's being done about it. I myself don't want this to happen just yet, which is why I'm still here, but I don't know how long it's going to stay like that.

Edited March 16, 2014 by kichilron

[boneboys 7988]

Thank you for that wonderful post kich (may I call you kich ?).
Now to the crux of the subject concerning this much debated Proper Community Management.
 
DayZ Forum Staff.

As you know it has been a long hard battle to make these Forums a safe haven for our members.
Back in the old DayZ  they ran the risk of being banned for posting in the wrong Forum section or posting gifs/derpy comments.
This was not acceptable and over time a lot of effort has been made to correct this error by myself and the hard core of the Moderating Staff.
 
This was a direct result of Management instructions given to the Forum Staff.
As you can see it (Management) knows exactly what it wants (or not) and does not mince words...
 

"Please do not turn into Nazi's
Moderators are there to guide, not to punish. No threats, ever. If someone deserves banning then ban them:

*******Link Removed********Bb

This is not a good way to deal with it, you look like a complete cock :)
Please edit that post with a magnanimous reply/apology. The guy was being funny, at worst you should kindly remind him to stay on topic or say something funny.

I'm pretty concerned with our moderators. I'm almost thinking we're better off with no moderators and anything goes. It took significant convincing from ****Removed*****Bb  for me to even ALLOW forums. Not so much for the users, but because of the wanky moderators. Please prove me wrong!"  

We ( the Forum Staff) have arrived at a point where we are all working in what I believe may be considered as harmony.
There is a lot of discussion going on in the background that can not be seen by the public.
Any decision taken is an agreement made amongst ourselves (the core group of moderators).
******************************
DayZ Staff.
 
If I feel that Rocket should make a comment on the Forums, I suggest as much through private channels, to date he has always done so.
The same applies to Mr's Lightfoot and Hicks.
It was his (Rocket) choice to communicate to the public using other media outlets, this came about six months or so after the Forums went live, up until that time he was quite active in his own way and would often get side tracked on the Forums when his time could be better spent elsewhere, (I closed some of those Topics when I felt things were losing all sense and direction, much to his annoyance I believe).
He has opted for a prompt (Twitter) and a somewhat less time consuming method (reedit) to communicate with the public.
My personal view on this (as I have written before) is that I believe it to be efficient and wise.
I do not see this direction changing in the future, the decision has been made by Rocket himself and I doubt that anything will alter his stance.
 
Over the last week you may have noticed two additional DayZ Staff active on the Forums.
They are both BIS QA employees and co-ordinate the Bug Tracking system and no doubt more besides, further proof that there is direction and the cap is known.

 

Can we please desist with this Plea for Proper Community Management.

The Management has the control.

 

^{Expect me to be trolled by management.}