The Advantage of Voice... should be turned against them

[Chaingunfighter 917]

Gimme a sec to clean the saliva you've spitted  in my face and I'll explain to you what I meant.

 

For THAT particular case, no, I have no solution, you'll be able to exploit the game as much as you want, just calm down and stop worrying, BIS isn't going to send a spetnaz team to take you down.

 

My point was to send a clear message to the player : 3rd party communication sofware are cheating. Be it TS, ventrillo, skype, msn,...if you communicate outside the game, you.are.cheating.

 

Right now the message is : do as you wish.

 

If you tell them this is going to be considered as cheating (and enforce it cleverly) they'll sitck to the rule.

No matter what you do you wont prevent some people from cheating or exploiting the game.

But the vast majority of the player base is willing to play the game according to its rules.

 

 

I'll just grab an umbrella before you answer.

 

You've got to be kidding me;

 

• Downloading non-CC YouTube videos, music, saving images off of Google, even just citing sources incorrectly can land you hefty fines and jail time.  (yes, incorrectly. Without a perfect citation it is still plagiarism) - But I'm sure 99% of computer users have done something like this at least once.
• Watching pornography underage can get the user and user's guardians in serious trouble, but we all know this happens all the time.
• Jailbreaking IOS devices is against Apple's policy, and doing it to any non-cellular device is illegal (not to mention the actions allowed by jailbreaking). How many people follow those rules?

There are so many "rules" that make things "bad" that most (or at least a lot of) people do not follow. Using external programs or even cellphones/tablets is going to be, at best, marginally slowed by the Devs coming out and saying; "NO YOU CANT DO THIS EEZ AGAINST RULES", especially to those who know they cannot enforce it and probably wouldn't if they could (just as people rarely do for the listed reasons above)

Edited March 2, 2014 by Chaingunfighter

[daisho 74]

Also: If I get a skype-call by some RL friends or family, take the call and am semi afk ingame hiding somewhere I really don't wanna everyone being able to listen to how the weather is or how much I got wasted (or not wasted because...DayZ) last weekend.

Edited March 2, 2014 by daisho

[Duenan 226]

There are enough gestures that can be used tactically.

 

You have a point, you have wave  (which can be used as a hold position) thumbs up etc.

 

Your clan can decide what signals mean what.

 

Just because people arent using them doesnt mean they're not there

 

Still it would be neat if people were sort of forced into the game world but realistically its not gonna happen

[Eight Ball 26]

You've got to be kidding me;

 

• Downloading non-CC YouTube videos, music, saving images off of Google, even just citing sources incorrectly can land you hefty fines and jail time.  (yes, incorrectly. Without a perfect citation it is still plagiarism) - But I'm sure 99% of computer users have done something like this at least once.
• Watching pornography underage can get the user and user's guardians in serious trouble, but we all know this happens all the time.
• Jailbreaking IOS devices is against Apple's policy, and doing it to any non-cellular device is illegal (not to mention the actions allowed by jailbreaking). How many people follow those rules?

There are so many "rules" that make things "bad" that most (or at least a lot of) people do not follow. Using external programs or even cellphones/tablets is going to be, at best, marginally slowed by the Devs coming out and saying; "NO YOU CANT DO THIS EEZ AGAINST RULES", especially to those who know they cannot enforce it and probably wouldn't if they could (just as people rarely do for the listed reasons above)

 

What about speed limit ? A fair amount of people do drive faster but the large majority respect them.

Itunes ? Everything you can buy on Itunes is available for free on Youtube & Co. Still Itunes is a big success.

 

What point are you trying to make ? Because some people brake the law then laws are useless ?

Because we don't have a perfect solution for this issues we should just sit here, wanking ourselves in the hope our delightfull semen will solve the problem ?

 

Also: If I get a skype-call by some RL friends or family, take the call and am semi afk ingame hiding somewhere I really don't wanna everyone being able to listen to how the weather is or how much I got wasted (or not wasted because...DayZ) last weekend.

That's why OP suggestion is interresting. When using your mic and not pressing the chat key your character itself would make more noise (footstep, breathing,...)

So your week-end with your mistress stay between you and her ;)

Edited March 2, 2014 by Sooke

[Chaingunfighter 917]

You have choosen examples that fits your point.

 

What about speed limit ? A fair amount of people do drive faster but the large majority respect them.

Itunes ? Everything you can buy on Itunes is available for free on Youtube & Co. Still Itunes is a big success.

 

What point are you trying to make ? Because some people brake the law then laws are useless ?

Because we don't have a perfect solution for this issues we should just sit here, wanking ourselves in the hope our delightfull semen will solve the problem ?

 

My point is that the devs have no good reason to waste their time trying to stop something that anyone who is honestly maliciously using will work around anyway. I'm not saying laws have no purpose, nor do we need a "perfect" solution to something that I don't even think is a problem, I'm saying there's no point in wasting the time doing something like that when it will be meaningless. Clans and players will continue using teamspeak regardless of any rule the devs have in place, it won't make any real difference to the people who "abuse" it. That's my point; why do it if it only stops those who did it legitimately.

[mithrawndo 166]

Gimme a sec to clean the saliva you've spitted  in my face and I'll explain to you what I meant.

 

It seems I was a little grouchy when I wrote that initial post: This old man hadn't had his afternoon nap yet. My sincerest apologies, it was uncalled of to be so vitriolic over such a trifling issue.

 

Chaingunfighter has already made the point for me though; dependant on the circumstances it can just as easily be human nature to break rules as it is to follow them, even when these rules are actively enforced. Examples of such behaviour are plentiful, from prohibition USA to modern drug use; from cassette recorders and VCRs to pirated MP3/FLAC audio and Blu-Ray rips; even the recent situation in Ukraine can be used as an example - the initial civil disobedience, the outright rebellion/revolution/coup (delete as you feel morally appropriate) through to the Russian Federation soldiers taking off their insignia.

 

People follow rules when it suits them and break them when it suits them. A "gentlemen's agreement" is a wonderful thing, but it can only ever work if there is trust. If this mod/game has taught anything, it should be a lack of trust for other players!

[Eight Ball 26]

My point is that the devs have no good reason to waste their time trying to stop something that anyone who is honestly maliciously using will work around anyway. I'm not saying laws have no purpose, nor do we need a "perfect" solution to something that I don't even think is a problem, I'm saying there's no point in wasting the time doing something like that when it will be meaningless. Clans and players will continue using teamspeak regardless of any rule the devs have in place, it won't make any real difference to the people who "abuse" it. That's my point; why do it if it only stops those who did it legitimately.

 

 

Then devs should certainly not waste their time on walkie-talkie and radios either. Because it's absolutely useless if nothing is done to prevent people from using TS.

And while they're at it they can just bring back the old chat system from ArmA.

 

Add to this the ability to team up with other player in the player list and communicate with them via the team channel, so everyone is at the same level.

 

And that's it, one really important feature of DayZ to the bin.

 

@Mithrawndo

No problem, it's the internet ;)

Edited March 2, 2014 by Sooke

[Chaingunfighter 917]

Then devs should certainly not waste their times on walkie-talkie and radios either. Because it's absolutely useless if nothing is done to prevent people from using TS.

Well what exactly are they going to do? They can't just put in place any solution just because they have nothing better. 

It's just like assuming that you are right about something just because you have no evidence otherwise.

[Nylrem 12]

I think the only way that it would be possible to try and prevent outside voip would be to try and get all voip programs blacklisted by battleye.  As much as I'd enjoy that I don't think it will happen, even if it did you'd still have steam voip to contend with, unless they could somehow get the game to over ride steam permissions or something.

[SpiRo (DayZ) 7]

Or you should get some friends and use TS ?

[minime1000 78]

Here is a good suggestion.  As a lot of clans use voice applications outside DayZ and keep theirselfs quiet in the game it is actually not fair against other players.  Offcourse the voice activation button should still be there.  But i suggest that people can be heard, no matter what if they make noises.  The game can detect voice even if muted.  Why not take advantage of that part and 'abuse' it to make those silent clans less silent.  As they talk a lot, the more noise their feet for example in the game make.  The more noise they make, the more noise generated by the game itself.  This way it is more fair and a more real experience.  Maybe even make a blabbering noise if someone talks if there is no voice activation.  I do understand privacy and such is involved.  But making noise = making noise in the game, this is what i hate the most about this game... the silence of everyone keeping their chat to themselves.  

Not possible without messing with the computer in a way majority of people do not like. Meta gaming like voip programs is part of PC gaming and you have to deal with it.

 

You can roleplay and pretend the enemy group is whispering and using earpieces lol.

Edited March 3, 2014 by myshl0ng

[kOepi (DayZ) 35]

relax everybody. this cannot become a fine solution.
There is already something out there to solve that problem.

 

ADVANCED COMBAT RADIO ENVIRONMENT aka A.C.R.E aka acre aka akre

you cannot get more fairness and more immersion.

[windchimepuppet 15]

The voice chat in my opinion should be how it is now on Regular servers but on Hardcore it should always be on making you have to be quiet yourself.  I really think that the main differences between regular and hardcore servers should be realism and immersion.

 

I also wouldn't mind it if regular servers had the option of having a global chat.  Just sayin...

[billy_bones 13]

To me, a "hot mic" is not a solution to metagaming.  I would treat this an invasion of my privacy and do whatever i could to circumvent its application. 

with that aside there are (undetectable) free software solutions to circumvent this.  Virtual Audio Cable comes to mind. 
 

Edited March 17, 2014 by psycrash

[kOepi (DayZ) 35]

To me, a "hot mic" is not a solution to metagaming.  I would treat this an invasion of my privacy and do whatever i could to circumvent its application. 

with that aside there are (undetectable) free software solutions to circumvent this.  Virtual Audio Cable comes to mind. 

 

correct, knowing this now, would make dayz attractive for N.S.A. and similar agencies.

maybe that would help to develop the game faster, when U.S. government invests into it !

HAR HAR HAR

[Accolyte 1727]

Hi,

 

as several people pointed out already, there is no way to stop people from using 3rd party communication software.

 

If DayZ "somehow" captured and transmitted all audio at all times, it would essentially become a malware.

 

I don't see this happening, sorry guys.

[enforcer1975 1111]

You could either choose mike in game which transmits with ptt or voice activation or no mike and it disables input in windows...whoever uses a program has to choose yes and provide a hotkey this way.

[Accolyte 1727]

it disables input in windows

 

That's essentially malware.

[AP_Norris 1018]

What kills the game:

I yesterday say a hunting of 6 guys fully equiped on newspawns. I was on the hill and watched 3 newspawns run around like crazy to avoid them.

Offcourse complete silence, i went in there with a automatic weapon, all for sudden another guy knew exactly where i was heading.

 

How unfair?  How not a good thing?  Why newspawns, they dont have anything to loot?  

 

Really voice should be turned against them in one way or another.

Those guys are just dicks and would do the same thing regardless of the situation.

But, we all know radios are in the game.

Well imagine if we had the game ALWAYS on whisper direct chat, pressing caps means to SHOUT loudly (increase voice range).

People would have to be close to detect you, muting your mic would do what it normally does and mute you.

But the effect this would have on people using third party programs, would be to have them treated as though they had a radio & earpiece.

Close up they might refrain from saying anything dumb, even through their call as they range should be funny like that dropping the further you go.

Don't want people listening to you? Mute your mic.

[entspeak 374]

I think this would have to be an admin preference.  My hope is that, at some point, ACRE will be be supported as a mod of DayZ SA.  There are definitely groups who have the discipline to make use of in-game communications to create more immersion (Shack Tactical, is a good example).  Unfortunately, you can't force people to use in-game comms.  I don't think it amounts to malware if you simply leave direct open as a feature, but, as has been pointed out, it's easy to get around if you have the right hardware.  In the end, it comes down to playing with a community interested in that level of immersion.  Once modding is allowed, I'm sure there will be some server out there that will put ACRE in.

[PhilB 230]

In my sordid travels of this forum, I came across a post of a guy who said he and his brother played simultaneously while in the same room. Thus they could communicate and, in fact, see each other's screens. So, yeah, meta is no easy answer.

 

HOWEVER, OP's suggestion has merit because maybe 80% of players are too lazy/stupid to work a bypass. 

 

I could work a bypass, but I'm too lazy. Good suggestion.