Why Day Z is "Fundamentally Flawed"

[dusty_nuttles 130]

Do you not follow the dev tracker?  Do you even know what this game is about?  You are aware it's not just an FPS, right?

 

Its a COD mod right? I bought the season pass and got the link. I'm in the right place am I not?

[ASDF991 8]

 

 

ok, I only skimmed a few posts and saw someone talking about how DayZ was not a military simulator and it clearly is, if the conversation was something different then my bad.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Its a COD mod right? I bought the season pass and got the link. I'm in the right place am I not?

damnit. Now you know how they get the caramel in a Cadbury bar. I'm coming for you. You're dayZ is over

[McGarnagle 94]

OP's post

 

I'm not going to attack you, because the whole "controversy" is one of the dumbest things I've ever witnessed, which is actually saying a lot.

 

However, I don't really agree with your conclusions. They're WAY too speculative about Rocket's deepest feelings about game design. I see no way to extrapolate that much data from a sentence or two in an already dubious article.

Edited February 26, 2014 by McGarnagle

[haviv[3rdid] 57]

Oh, all the gear you ruined?  

 

If you have skill, you shouldn't have any ruined gear unless there's a bug.

[sausagekingofchicago 4711]

Referring to Dean's vision at all is conjecture, because he's never come out and concretely stated what it is, at least as far as I know (please direct me to the place it is stated if it exists.) But we can get a pretty good idea what that vision is from what he's said and done.

Sure, we can make an educated guess based on the game and his many interviews and posts. What we can't do is pretend to know whats going on at BI, in rockets head, what's being discussed around the watercooler at the offices, what the top dogs at BI think of dayz or rocket, what kind of socks Matt isn't wearing to the office, and then write it up as fact.

Anyway, I hope his vision is more than just DayZ. I lean towards the survival end of the fanbase and I find that aspect heavily lacking even with the number of hours I've logged. Hunting is going to be great but the map size is far too constrictive imo. That's something that's going to get worse when vehicles arrive.

[lumo1234 68]

One thing people need to bare in mind is 10 months from now the game is planned to be in a "proper" beta state, by this i mean the only things left to do are minor bug fixes, which dean is not needed for.

 

It has also been stated that Dayz SA will have mod tools, so even if the official version does fall to shit (which honestly i doubt it will, don't forget Dean is not the ONLY person working on the SA) there will be at least one mod that will continue to improve/add on game play.

 

Will it be a sad day when dean leaves the DAYZ Team? Yes of course it will.

 

Will it be the end of DAYZ? No i honestly don't think it will be.

[brumey 116]

i really wanna know which core fundementals are flawed and which visions dean had for the game , which now cant be made cuz of flaws in the core of the engine!

 

who designed the engine from the ground up ?

Edited February 26, 2014 by brumey

[Jack Dant 158]

i really wanna know which core fundementals are flawed and which visions dean had for the game , which now cant be made cuz of flaws in the core of the engine!

 

who designed the engine from the ground up ?

Wow, reading comprehension is at an all level low.

 

The exact quote was: "I feel like DayZ is a fundamentally flawed concept".

 

Notice how he said concept, not implementation, or engine. It means you cannot fix those flaws without changing the concept. For all we know, that could mean getting rid of zombies, of guns, of hunger mechanics. We don't know.

 

"It's not the perfect game; it's not the multiplayer experience, and it never can be, [with] the absolute spark that I want in it."

 

How's that so dissapointing? Are people honestly claiming DayZ was the perfect game, or could even be made into it? Have you looked at these forums? People whine about KoS, people whine about not enough PVP, about how loot is too rare, and about how it's too easy to gear up. Really?

[Window Licker 504]

I'm not sure what he ment by a flawed concept, I'm of the opinion that unless Dean drop's in and explains that in full detail then we are going to have to speculate, which is exactly what most are doing hence this thread.

 

I'm of the thought's that he intended to have this as a survival simulation, with the game being weighted towards the stay alive aspect more then the gun's and KoS and the like.  In saying that I like the current direction of the game but I feel the initial Alpha got a lot of people into the game that wouldn't have bought it typically if they had comprehended what the actual goal of the game was. But as I've said, I can only guess at what Deans vision for the finished product is.

 

I was also disappointed to hear the new's but and can only hope that BI hold's to the plan, but my experience with these thing's is the company will do whatever will make/save the most money.  Which always annoys me.

[brumey 116]

Wow, reading comprehension is at an all level low.

 

The exact quote was: "I feel like DayZ is a fundamentally flawed concept".

 

Notice how he said concept, not implementation, or engine. It means you cannot fix those flaws without changing the concept. For all we know, that could mean getting rid of zombies, of guns, of hunger mechanics. We don't know.

 

"It's not the perfect game; it's not the multiplayer experience, and it never can be, [with] the absolute spark that I want in it."

 

How's that so dissapointing? Are people honestly claiming DayZ was the perfect game, or could even be made into it? Have you looked at these forums? People whine about KoS, people whine about not enough PVP, about how loot is too rare, and about how it's too easy to gear up. Really?

YEAH!

 

BUT WHAT ARE THE FLAWS? HE COUDL JUST TELL IT BY NAME! SAYING SOMETHING IS FUNDAMENTALLY FLAWED WITHOUT NAMING THE FLAWS IS SO SO SO SO EASY!

[LaughingJack (DayZ) 767]

Oida brumey relax^^ I hob bei dia imma angst dasst an herzkasperl kriagst wennst di so aufregst ;)

 

 

So one more time, Deans quotes from what he wrote on reddit about the "flawed concept"...

 

I'm very critical of the work I do, I believe that's why I can do work that ends up quite successful. I'm very critical not just of the delivery of work I do but the base concepts behind them. I like to share and discuss those critiques because I think that makes me a better designer through the process.

 

 

I am saying I do not believe DayZ is the ultimate multiplayer game. I'm rather surprised people think the concept is so amazing, because it's about 20% of what I believe an amazing concept would be. I'm not saying the DayZ concept is flawed in itself - but compared to my ideal of the "ultimate" game it is not.

Please remember: these quotes are tiny selections from a four hour long discussion about DayZ and my future plans. The two things have nothing to do with each other, I want to go home to New Zealand. And in future, I want to do my best to make the ultimate MP game one day.

 

 

Just because DayZ was commercially successful does not mean it is the perfect multiplayer game.
We can make DayZ absolutely perfect, seamless, optimized, and running fantastic in every way - and it in my eyes it will not be the ultimate multiplayer game.
Absolutely, 100% I'm proud of what the team and I have achieved. Very proud! But I'm aware that many of the limitations we face at a core level, exist because of my mistakes as a designer at the star

 

 

Where did I say I was not happy with what I created?

I find flaws in everything I do. Even the way I travel to work, I critique the way I drive constantly, attempting to minimize risk. For me, to look at a concept and identify it's core faults is as natural as breathing.

Also, I did not write the article. I discussed DayZ with a journalist who was visiting the studio over three days. The interview in question lasted about four hours.

 

 

That was one comment made in the middle of a four hour interview :)

What I'm referring to there, is that I see DayZ as having elements of the "ultimate multiplayer experience" but I was discussing with the interviewer all the things that I did not think were perfect about DayZ. We were discussing the ways in which I believe the concept - the core design - that I came up with is flawed. There are things the game cannot do because of the way I designed it. These are important lessons that I take heed of.

However, they don't detract from the game at all, and indeed to change these would dramatically change the game and not necessarily for the better (for example: I could just be completely wrong). The DayZ game should head in the direction it is, but any future game I make should take into account what I feel are flaws in my previous design(s).

 

 

So these "flaws" he is speaking of are - from what I've read - things that hold DayZ back from becoming the "ultimate multiplayer game".

And I think that may be, because he would need a real-mmo-like serverarchitecture+world....No visible servers to the players just hives and all players in the same world, at best size of the world as it is, with total realism etc....so nothing that could be done. Or at least be done easy. And the flaw for DayZ is...well the ArmA-multiplayer structure.

Again: Just my guess.

 

 

Edit: Gave the (for me) most important quote a bigger fontsize ;)

Edited February 26, 2014 by LaughingJack

[rickenbacker 190]

Yikes, that's rough isn't it? The developer coming right out and stating that the game was fundamentally flawed from the beginning. But what does he mean by that? And does it mean Day Z is doomed to fail? 

 

 

He's talking about the "Peter Molyneux Factor", the fact that no game can ever be as good as it is in the mind of the developer.He doesn't mean that he thinks the game will fail, and anyone who thinks so is an idiot.

Edited February 26, 2014 by Rickenbacker

[minime1000 78]

Because it is a game and you cannot have accurate human behavior when there are no real consequences.

This the reason KOS will never go away to realistically low levels. And if you make the game PVE only/ add PVE mode then it stops being a "realistic" survival simulator.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Oida brumey relax^^ I hob bei dia imma angst dasst an herzkasperl kriagst wennst di so aufregst ;)

 

 

So one more time, Deans quotes from what he wrote on reddit about the "flawed concept"...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So these "flaws" he is speaking of are - from what I've read - things that hold DayZ back from becoming the "ultimate multiplayer game".

And I think that may be, because he would need a real-mmo-like serverarchitecture+world....No visible servers to the players just hives and all players in the same world, at best size of the world as it is, with total realism etc....so nothing that could be done. Or at least be done easy. And the flaw for DayZ is...well the ArmA-multiplayer structure.

Again: Just my guess.

 

 

Edit: Gave the (for me) most important quote a bigger fontsize ;)

I totally agree.  I see that he wanted to build a large game but is limited because of the RV engine, which has been rebuilt for DayZ mind you, but it is still not an MMO engine.  Secondly, I stated this many pages back, is the playerbase.  I truly don't think Mr. Hall expected players to behave the way they are right now in game.  I don't think he was expecting people to be running around playing ARMA 2 on this new Chernerus that was built but that falls on to what they gave us to test right now.  "Hey guys, let's see how well these players can survive in our Alpha.  Wait, why is everyone just running around killing eachother??  WTF have I done!!! I've created a monsters!!! NOOOOOO!!!!!"  Ok, I went off on a bit of a tangent at the end but I'm pretty sure I'm close :P

[gottyplays 5]

Because it is a game and you cannot have accurate human behavior when there are no real consequences.

This the reason KOS will never go away to realistically low levels. And if you make the game PVE only/ add PVE mode then it stops being a "realistic" survival simulator.

oh god why there is this kos argument EVERYWHERE