Is it too much to ask for smooth controls?

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

I didn't know that artists and 3d modelers could code the game.

[t1337dude 101]

The controls do suck. The mouse movement is literally in its own dimension of control. There's almost no correlation between where I move my mouse on my mousepad compared to where my character looks around on the screen. Worst of all - commands will fucking queue up! So if you hit the wrong hotkey and you meant to pull out your GUN instead of your AXE, and then hit your GUN hot key again because nothing is happening - your guy will eventually pull out his gun and then put it away again because it turns out your press was recognized. I can live with the lack of 1:1 mouse control, but the fact that the hotkeys aren't responsive, often don't work on first press, and queue up is nuts. They need to fix it.

[Zoridium JackL 16]

The controls do suck. The mouse movement is literally in its own dimension of control. There's almost no correlation between where I move my mouse on my mousepad compared to where my character looks around on the screen. Worst of all - commands will fucking queue up! So if you hit the wrong hotkey and you meant to pull out your GUN instead of your AXE, and then hit your GUN hot key again because nothing is happening - your guy will eventually pull out his gun and then put it away again because it turns out your press was recognized. I can live with the lack of 1:1 mouse control, but the fact that the hotkeys aren't responsive, often don't work on first press, and queue up is nuts. They need to fix it.

for many people the mouse has negative mouse acceleration, basically you look around slower the faster you move your mouse, it's incredibly unintuitive and disorienting, so that might be your problem (not that it helps to know that, there isn't actually any fix that I know of player side)

[hells high 676]

I don't understand why people have so much trouble with ARMA controls. Instead of picking it up knowing full well what its like, then complaining about it, try learning it. Like someone else said don't run full tilt like a numpty everywhere (especially if you are going to try comparing it to real life, how many times have you sprinted into a building round the corner into a room looped around out the door and up the stairs?)

 

I personally don't have a problem with it most of the time, most people I know that spend time figuring it out don't either.

 

Mouse acceleration does need to be fixed though. They seem to want to turn it into an inertia system which is great and all, but the super acceleration that makes you turn slower the faster you try isn't right and will likely be changed. It should be constant if you want to do an inertia system, meaning adding a cap to how fast you can turn with a heavy rifle for example, instead of making you immobile.

Edited February 24, 2014 by Hells High

[t1337dude 101]

I don't understand why people have so much trouble with ARMA controls. Instead of picking it up knowing full well what its like, then complaining about it, try learning it. Like someone else said don't run full tilt like a numpty everywhere (especially if you are going to try comparing it to real life, how many times have you sprinted into a building round the corner into a room looped around out the door and up the stairs?)

 

I personally don't have a problem with it most of the time, most people I know that spend time figuring it out don't either.

 

Mouse acceleration does need to be fixed though. They seem to want to turn it into an inertia system which is great and all, but the super acceleration that makes you turn slower the faster you try isn't right and will likely be changed. It should be constant if you want to do an inertia system, meaning adding a cap to how fast you can turn with a heavy rifle for example, instead of making you immobile.

We're controller people, not tanks - right? Why shouldn't the player in the game behave more like a person - rather than us adapting to the player who moves around like a tank? Because that's almost what it feels like. I feel like I'm controlling some tank or ridiculous Gundam mech that has trouble moving due to its massive weight.

Edited February 24, 2014 by t1337Dude

[Solopopo 330]

I don't mind them.

This is probably because the survival horror games of old had rather clunky controls as a feature.

Having Leon Kennedy run down a narrow corridor full of zombies without getting bit wasn't easy >.>

And to me, that built tension. Fear.

My beans are yours. The clunkiness of Resident Evil controls actually did enhance the experience. Whether or not that was intentional.... I doubt it, but who cares?? It was awesome. 

 

As for Day Z, character movement doesn't bother me one bit. But I absolutely can't stand that no matter how high my frames are, the camera pans around like it's being held by Micheal J. Fox. The fact that Rocket encourages first person perspective play is a joke considering how jittery the screen is. 

Edited February 24, 2014 by Solopopo

[DrSubs 18]

I don't know if it because iv spent 1000 hours in original mod but I don't think the controls are that horrible. I mean there not the smoothest but you can work with it. Id rather have them skip the controls and they work on getting respawning zombies and more of them. I know most players disagree and would rather PVP but I like to loot and survive and just clear out zombies and with this there are almost no zombies to shoot. Hope they don't forget this started as a ZOMBIE game

[hiberNative 13]

I like the clunky engine, except the weird mouse acceleration. If it would be as reaponsive as the battlefield games, firefights would feel too easy and "reactional".

[Demoth 366]

I am more annoyed by character animations and the clunkiness of of you experience while what you see other people doing is too jerky and twitchy.

But I will say this; I start to really like the clunky and awkward movement that you experience during gun fights because it really captures the feeling of what a shootout would be like between non highly trained people.

Have you ever tried to walk, let alone run and fire a gun at something 25 meters away? It's REALLY hard. And the average accuracy of most police and soldiers in firefights is generally very very low because of adrenaline, having to move, duck and just so forth.

And while the unresponsiveness can be obnxious, you do need to take things slow. Like Hells High said, you don't job / run through buildings making hairpin turns up stairs and then strafe turn to make a 180 once at the top.

I think this is intentional so that you are forced to move tactically; but I agree that it's stupid when you need to haul ass and you get caught on a little piece of terrain and have to back up, strafe and then continue forward where as in real life you would instinctively just twist your torso a bit to clear that door edge / railing / tree branch.

[Mos1ey 6301]

I'd settle for them fixing the mouse acceleration.

 

Your turn speed is determined by a huge number of things e.g. the weapon in your hands, stamina etc.

 

'Fixing acceleration' is not as simple as changing a "1" to a "0". It's something that requires a lot of work and tweaking from the devs and will be fixed eventually.

Edited February 24, 2014 by Mos1ey

[soulfirez 901]

I don't know if it because iv spent 1000 hours in original mod but I don't think the controls are that horrible. I mean there not the smoothest but you can work with it. Id rather have them skip the controls and they work on getting respawning zombies and more of them. I know most players disagree and would rather PVP but I like to loot and survive and just clear out zombies and with this there are almost no zombies to shoot. Hope they don't forget this started as a ZOMBIE game

I can agree with you on the controls just one thing though it actually didnt start as a zombie game it started as a survival game when the mod was originally being made deans intent was a survival game based off his time in the army.. Then zombies where added for the cool factor as an explanation for the apoc so to speak and dayz was born.

 

But yeah i do want more and far better zeds.....

Edited February 24, 2014 by SoulFirez

[Irish. 4886]

The lack of knowing I can do simple tasks like walk, run, climb and jump make this game kind of what it is.. The fear factor goes way up when you are literally crippled and its a zombie apocalypse. 

 

It's sort of like being this guy all the time while trying not to die from everything:

...wut, too soon? :P

[Element47 2480]

We have to live with it. Without a new engine, or a reworking to the extent that, effectively, we'd end up with a new engine, we're stuck with the legacy of Operation Flashpoint.

 

this is not true. the DayZ team has direct access to the engine, so it would be absolutely possible to code new input controls without too much hassle.

 

However i agree that we probably wont see it, considering how massively Arma code and assets are reused by the team. Its a pity though.

[Element47 2480]

Your turn speed is determined by a huge number of things e.g. the weapon in your hands, stamina etc.

 

'Fixing acceleration' is not as simple as changing a "1" to a "0". It's something that requires a lot of work and tweaking from the devs and will be fixed eventually.

 

this is how its supposed to be.

 

currently mouse input is inherently broken. latest example: standing calmly on the street, moving my mouse slowly ~10cm to the side nets me a 1080° turn, moving my mouse fast the same ~10cm nets me ca. 270° turn. the same equipment, exhaustion level, stance. this results in horribly inconsistent turn rates, which are plainly nauseating, especially in buildings.

 

 

edit: meh double post, apologies.

Edited February 24, 2014 by e47

[DeatHTaX 1217]

I have zero issues with the controls.  I've learned that by not running full tilt everywhere, including through buildings, that the controls are very easy to control.

 

But it's not a matter of "have you gotten used to the controls". Let's be honest with ourselves...the controls for the OP listed games are just flat out BAD. 

[Zoridium JackL 16]

Your turn speed is determined by a huge number of things e.g. the weapon in your hands, stamina etc.

 

'Fixing acceleration' is not as simple as changing a "1" to a "0". It's something that requires a lot of work and tweaking from the devs and will be fixed eventually.

I get that, and it's a deeply interwoven code issue (or so I would assume from the symptoms), but nevertheless I'd love to see it fixed, it's the one control issue that I feel throws the game out the most, the rest just sort of get in the way, but the neg accell just... ugh.

[jfn3000 10]

The game's controls aren't all that bad, I'd give them a B/B+ overall.  I think the bigger reason people that like them say "learn them" and people who don't say "WTF is this?" is because they're not common.  A de facto standard has arisen amongst FPS and most first person games in general, and this scheme is doesn't conform that much.  Since other FPS's are so prevalent, ArmA 2 and DayZ are like the wall charger that mounts upside down, or covers up just like 1.25 of the next spot in a surge protector. 

 

The bigger issue is one of animation seamlessness.  The Assassin's Creed series and GTA IV/V (V better than IV) both do this very well.  If it didn't look like the character model was stopping like a doof before doing something, people would probably be raving about it's ridiculous accuracy. 

 

That said, the mouse acceleration is definitely backwards.  If it's for weapon/equipment weight, it's bugged, and if it's on purpose for ease of peering around a room, then it needs to be smoothed better, which is a polish issue and probably not an Alpha priority (but it does need to get done!).  It honestly feels a little like within a certain range it's using a weight based reference on just the head, like you would expect for free look.  If so, good thinking(!) and it just needs to flow better.  I can elaborate elsewhere, but I'm not sure if that's a Suggestion or a Bug :p

[DemonGroover 8836]

You get used to any controls eventually...i remember the original Resident Evil.

[Mos1ey 6301]

this is how its supposed to be.

 

currently mouse input is inherently broken. latest example: standing calmly on the street, moving my mouse slowly ~10cm to the side nets me a 1080° turn, moving my mouse fast the same ~10cm nets me ca. 270° turn. the same equipment, exhaustion level, stance. this results in horribly inconsistent turn rates, which are plainly nauseating, especially in buildings.

 

 

edit: meh double post, apologies.

 

That's not how it's supposed to be, that's how it is. The game doesn't use a mouse sensitivity as such, it uses a turn speed. It's a good system but it needs a lot of tweaking and fixing.

Edited February 24, 2014 by Mos1ey

[CaballEro 4]

horrible horrible controls...

[infiltrator 275]

The game's controls aren't all that bad, I'd give them a B/B+ overall.  I think the bigger reason people that like them say "learn them" and people who don't say "WTF is this?" is because they're not common.  A de facto standard has arisen amongst FPS and most first person games in general, and this scheme is doesn't conform that much.  Since other FPS's are so prevalent, ArmA 2 and DayZ are like the wall charger that mounts upside down, or covers up just like 1.25 of the next spot in a surge protector. 

 

The bigger issue is one of animation seamlessness.  The Assassin's Creed series and GTA IV/V (V better than IV) both do this very well.  If it didn't look like the character model was stopping like a doof before doing something, people would probably be raving about it's ridiculous accuracy. 

 

That said, the mouse acceleration is definitely backwards.  If it's for weapon/equipment weight, it's bugged, and if it's on purpose for ease of peering around a room, then it needs to be smoothed better, which is a polish issue and probably not an Alpha priority (but it does need to get done!).  It honestly feels a little like within a certain range it's using a weight based reference on just the head, like you would expect for free look.  If so, good thinking(!) and it just needs to flow better.  I can elaborate elsewhere, but I'm not sure if that's a Suggestion or a Bug :P

 

I've played OPFP and all arma series, including the last. This is no new ground for me. But I have to take into account its 2014. There's no more excuses to be had - bohemia did a lot at improving the clunkiness in arma 3, but the dayz devs chose to go with the arma 2 engine knowing the limitations it had regarding this. I just want to know if they thought "screw it it's easier to just do it from the same engine as the mod" and went in like that or they thought "we can improve things a LOT even retaining the old engine".. 

 

 

You get used to any controls eventually...i remember the original Resident Evil.

 

What kind of logic is that? Barring the fact that I've played every bohemia title, it's mind boggling to justify something by means of being able to get used to it. There's tons of shit games you could "get used to" if you overlooked their problems with this kind of logic.

[irl-calibre 744]

being a tad harsh imo. I know everyone says it over and over, but ALPHA!! what we're playing is little more than a proof of concept, don't get me wrong I love run and gun arcade shooters, but accepted loooooooong ago that Dayz isn't a run and gun arcade shooter 

[tommes 331]

The controls in SA are overall way better than in the mod. The acceleration thingy should be fixed but I have no problems by just setting my mouse to low by the buttons on my G5. It's still annoying to find the "interaction spot" of some doors and gates. I guess that can be fixed.

[infiltrator 275]

being a tad harsh imo. I know everyone says it over and over, but ALPHA!! what we're playing is little more than a proof of concept, don't get me wrong I love run and gun arcade shooters, but accepted loooooooong ago that Dayz isn't a run and gun arcade shooter 

 

I think not.. this doesn't have anything to do with alpha if it's an engine limitation, like I outlined before. Arma 3 isn't an arcade shooter, and it doesn't have clunky controls. These two things aren't mutually exclusive, but people keep assuming they are.

[irl-calibre 744]

I think not.. this doesn't have anything to do with alpha if it's an engine limitation, like I outlined before. Arma 3 isn't an arcade shooter, and it doesn't have clunky controls. These two things aren't mutually exclusive, but people keep assuming they are.

 

well then it is what it is, they must of sacrificed it for some reason.  The only thing that really pisses me off is vaulting sometimes, and melee generally. I think everyone would agree its a "could do better" in terms of execution of controls.

Edited February 24, 2014 by Calibre