Experience: The CCP Way

[Damnyourdeadman 1045]

The way it works in Eve is that you must have a skill in training to receive any skill points at all. If you don't, that's time wasted. No refunds: Be better organised next time!

 

I'd like to see this implemented in the same way here. You only learn if you have the appropriate book in your bag and activate the training. It trains passively for as long as your character is alive. For example:

 

• You find a book on hydraulics & put it into your inventory
• You find another book on chemistry & place it in your inventory
• You start "reading" the hydraulics book
• You log off... and don't play again for a week.

When you return, you'll have finished reading the hydraulics book - aka trained the skill - but it won't automatically start reading the book on chemistry, nor will it "save up" the skill points for you to apply elsewhere. They're lost; you should have checked on your progress.

 

One bullet in the head, and all you've ever read is lost.

 

Ah,i get it!

So there's not really a way to speed up the process.

Also as i understand it,there is no limitation in how many different skills a character can learn.

Upon reading on EVE though,i noticed that there are certain attributes that affect the time duration for training a skill.

(Gunnery Skill - Perception etc)

Should there be something similar implemented in this system too?

[mithrawndo 166]

Ah,i get it!

So there's not really a way to speed up the process.

Also as i understand it,there is no limitation in how many different skills a character can learn.

Upon reading on EVE though,i noticed that there are certain attributes that affect the time duration for training a skill.

(Gunnery Skill - Perception etc)

Should there be something similar implemented in this system too?

 

The only limit on how many skills you can learn would be how many books you can find and read. Books should wear out like any other item in DayZ, and so whilst you could (and would) find books to place in your stash, after being used for several days they'd fall to bits. Given that you can also tear pages out of books, there's the potential for a book to even be incomplete. This would work quite will as a control mechanism between character lives and for groups.

 

I don't like the idea of attributes affecting how quickly your skills train (though I'm not averse to being persuaded), and similarly I don't like skill "trees" where one skill is a prerequisite of the other. It makes sense that you would require to learn several skills to use an item, but I can't imagine what benefit - in a game where your lifespan is deliberately short - there would be to having requirements to learn something. Having a vehicle require someone to have learned to drive and someone else to have learned to fix it - an invisible mechanism to encourage without forcing cooperation - seems desirable to me.

[Pandema 352]

This'd kill the immersion for me.

 

In EvE its justified because lol Jove tech ain't gotta explain shit and clones so that when you "die" you don't really "die"

 

In DayZ when someone mag dumps you with an AKM at <5 feet you don't have a back up clone waiting to receive your consciousness.

[mithrawndo 166]

This'd kill the immersion for me.

 

In EvE its justified because lol Jove tech ain't gotta explain shit and clones so that when you "die" you don't really "die"

 

In DayZ when someone mag dumps you with an AKM at <5 feet you don't have a back up clone waiting to receive your consciousness.

 

Indeed you start a new life - a new character - each time you die. It's to preserve immersion that the suggestion includes forgetting any previously learned skills with each bullet to the brain. No clones, no preserving what you've learned in past lives. You wake up on the beach and all you've got are the clothes on your back.

 

In short, I'm not really sure what you're trying to say: Do you think it's a good thing that the suggestion includes forgetting everything you've learned when you die, or do you prefer the idea of a safety net?

[Pandema 352]

Indeed you start a new life - a new character - each time you die. It's to preserve immersion that the suggestion includes forgetting any previously learned skills with each bullet to the brain. No clones, no preserving what you've learned in past lives. You wake up on the beach and all you've got are the clothes on your back.

 

In short, I'm not really sure what you're trying to say: Do you think it's a good thing that the suggestion includes forgetting everything you've learned when you die, or do you prefer the idea of a safety net?

 

It was late and I didn't read the thread in its entirety, missed the fact you lose it when you die.

[erv_za 17]

I just want to point out that it has been proven that character development does decrease KOS, exactly because it makes death so much more serious.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=oZZRT_v6X-0#t=2490

[mithrawndo 166]

I just want to point out that it has been proven that character development does decrease KOS, exactly because it makes death so much more serious.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=oZZRT_v6X-0#t=2490

 

Thanks for the link, some interesting discussion there. In particular, I think the man on Hicks' right (Jeff Strain I believe?) makes a very interesting point about game design: I think by erasing minds of what they learn with bullets, but allowing the storing of information in books - both player written notes on a subject (if possible, that's a tall order) and hard coded skill books that suffer wear and tear as they are used, we provide an excellent mechanism to encourage cooperation and to heighten the experience that combat gives us without overly punishing the intelligent, well organised player.

Edited February 21, 2015 by Mithrawndo

[mithrawndo 166]

It's been a while since I've revisited this topic, so I thought I'd bring it back to the front page to see if there are any more comments that people who perhaps didn't see this a few years ago might care to chime in on?

Thanks in advance, and apologies for the blatant bump/necro.

[Troll_Hunter 54]

For me I like to see starting players have a wide base knowledge, matching that of a regular man who has had military service, including basic survival, first aid and shooting skills, as it is now for the regular players.

The advanced skills should be rewarding extras. Abilities that are valuable to the player and a group. I think it is specialisation that makes organising in groups more valuable. I think Dayz can offer more then FFA and TDM. In Dayz people can exchange more then med kits and gunfire. How can we encourage players to seek more rewarding, involved, interactions?

In my view at this moment the game severely lacks depth. There is nothing more to do then to get guns, find your buddy and hunt others. What attractive ambitions are there to work towards to? I think attractive Individual goals, group effort goals should motivate players to build and traverse dangerous Chernarus for many hours, dayz. To do so the rewards should be awesome. Getting a helicopter operational, and flying it could be one of those (team) ambitions. When such a craft passes overhead people should be amazed and impressed by the effort and skill it took to make it happen. Learning the right skills to me is just as logical as getting the right parts. However for the most rewarding goals you'll need a team of people to support, protect and succeed. Obtaining the skill to me is just one of things to do in order to reach that self chosen ambitious goal.

Edited December 20, 2016 by Troll_Hunter

[mithrawndo 166]

On 19/12/2016 at 11:56 PM, Troll_Hunter said:

Getting a helicopter operational, and flying it could be one of those (team) ambitions. When such a craft passes overhead people should be amazed and impressed by the effort and skill it took to make it happen. Learning the right skills to me is just as logical as getting the right parts.

When a group sees a helicopter flying overhead, greed will take over - they'll want that helicopter. Wouldn't it be cool if they managed to track it down, murder it's existing crew and secure it for themselves... but be unable to fly it, instead having to stand guard whilst a pilot is located, perhaps even for days as one of their team finds the books and learns the rudimentary skills?

Wouldn't it be cool if their initial assault took the fact that none of them could fly the damn thing and that they might need to also secure the pilot to be able to secure the helicopter?

[scriptfactory 620]

This is similar to my original skills idea. Every player account is assigned a fixed "job". Mechanic. Medic. Whatever. Skill increases with playtime. Read books to gradually improve skills not related to your job. Done. No extra UI is needed besides a job title. It's so simple it just might work.

[mithrawndo 166]

On 09/01/2017 at 4:26 PM, scriptfactory said:

This is similar to my original skills idea. Every player account is assigned a fixed "job". Mechanic. Medic. Whatever. Skill increases with playtime. Read books to gradually improve skills not related to your job. Done. No extra UI is needed besides a job title. It's so simple it just might work.

The only problem with this is that people will suicide repeatedly to get the "class" they want. Whatever system the devs go with in the end, it must be created with the knowledge that players will *always* try to game the system and discover the min/max builds available.

[t3h_kgb 6]

There's no need for XP in this game at all. Professions, should they be implemented, can have individual skill percentages not unlike Ultima Online had, where you gain skill based on using that particular proficiency, as opposed to getting a boost to everything every time you "level up", which ultimately would destroy any chance new players have in a game such as this... It would be no fun to hop on a new game just to find out people who've been grinding since 2013 can walk up and laugh as your Mosin bullets bounce off their chest because Level 60 versus Level 1.....

As for skill loss, i.e. you die, you go back to square one:
That was tried in EverQuest, and people literally killed themselves in real life, over losing just a percentage of skill/XP in-game... People literally SHOT themselves because they lost however many months' of constant grinding in an instant.... The LAST thing we need is to repeat that mistake....

Shit, it's frustrating enough just losing all your gear, ESPECIALLY if you got some awesome gear!! Like right now, I got an SVD (FUCK YEAH!), ghillie wrap, good scope, I got my AKS-74U suppressed with enough mags, USMC woodland gear, big LBV, pistol with most of the options, two canteens, big-ass MOLLE bag, etc.... And the next time DayZ wipes all characters for an update, I already know now that I'm gonna be PISSED.... I know it's coming, it's inevitable, and I'm still gonna be PISSED because of all that work and random dumb luck (as the spawner system works on random dumb luck, that's how rarity loot spawner systems work for the end-user) that I will lose....

P.s., and this is totally unrelated, but:
How come the past ten compasses I've come across have all been "damaged"!? Where's all the worn and pristine compasses!? D:

[Edit] Of course less than 24hrs after posting this, I get friggin' jumped by yet another douchebag player, lost weeks' worth of work in an instant.[/Edit]

Edited July 13, 2017 by t3h_kgb