I Finally See

[HunterJay 81]

You guys are samurai? You guys are trained by ancient samurai masters on how to use a katana? No. And no book or documentary can even scratch the surface. Nor can watching Shogun 2: total war battles teach you how ancient samurai fought. So you shouldn't even assume to know, which of course you all are samurai masters so it doesn't matter.

 

Let us look at history, every time a culture with swords tried to fight a culture with guns, what happened? Katana wouldn't be all that useful against a horde of zombies either. And would look incredibly out of place in russia.

 

Katana vs Fireaxe? Good luck fireaxe.

 

Person who said Katana is useless hand to hand is inbred.

[Nicko2580 398]

a huge heavy slow combersome weapon that assuming you still have the strength to wield it from lack of food would most likely have gotten you killed from the very lack of speed ( in talking to a fast moving infected zed as we ment to have in regards to dayz..( again are we talking a sledge or smaller hammer thaqt im not sure on  i got the feeling you ment a sledge hammer if you ment a smaller single hammer then gone is your range and you cant hit multiple opponents in one swing guess what with the katana i can ..

 

But granted if i last years this type of sword may become un effective to but its not as hard as you suggest to maintain only if you wish to maintain it in show condition animal fat works fine for rust protection and a stone with a flat edge will do for sharpening..

 

I dont doubt the killing power of a sledge hammer or a smaller hammer merely its NO WHERE NEAR AS EFFECTIVE as demonstrated by my willingness to face you with a hammer with a katana and you could be 7 foot tall and built like a brick shit house and that would only make my job of disabling and killing that much easier not harder...

Not true. First of all, you're acting as if the Katana is the be all and end all of medieval warfare - it's not. My hammer is not a full sized sledge. It is a 10 pound sledge, roughly a meter long which makes it longer than your Katana (36" average length = 91cm). I can swing ten pounds all day. I do when I'm working on fences and stuff.  Assuming all other things are equal (food and such), I can crush skulls all month and if you think I can't swing it wide and hit multiple things you're very wrong. Plus as I mentioned the haft is steel which means that the whole thing becomes a weapon. I can jab with the haft, both with the butt end and holding it horizontally. I can block with it. 

Each weapon does the job it's meant to do. Katana's are not the best melee weapons on the planet and neither are mauls/hammers. However in a situation like a zombie apocalypse, my hammer is going to outlast your katana by miles. I have no maintenance. I have no worry about it blunting or getting stuck half way through a zombies neck so I can't pull it out if I don't swing it correctly. I have no worry about getting it stuck in a ribcage or any other body part. 

As for 'all cultures inventing swords' - all cultures invented maces, mauls and flails too because again - it does the job it's meant to do. There is no 'best'. There's only the best in a given situation and I contend that with zombies, my hammer beats your katana hands down every time.

Edited February 16, 2014 by Nicko2580

[HunterJay 81]

Not true. First of all, you're acting as if the Katana is the be all and end all of medieval warfare - it's not. My hammer is not a full sized sledge. It is a 10 pound sledge, roughly a meter long which makes it longer than your Katana (36" average length = 91cm). I can swing ten pounds all day. I do when I'm working on fences and stuff.  Assuming all other things are equal (food and such), I can crush skulls all month and if you think I can't swing it wide and hit multiple things you're very wrong. Plus as I mentioned the haft is steel which means that the whole thing becomes a weapon. I can jab with the haft, both with the butt end and holding it horizontally. I can block with it. 

Each weapon does the job it's meant to do. Katana's are not the best melee weapons on the planet and neither are mauls/hammers. However in a situation like a zombie apocalypse, my hammer is going to outlast your katana by miles. I have no maintenance. I have no worry about it blunting or getting stuck half way through a zombies neck so I can't pull it out if I don't swing it correctly. I have no worry about getting it stuck in a ribcage or any other body part. 

As for 'all cultures inventing swords' - all cultures invented maces, mauls, pick-hammers, and flails too because again - it does the job it's meant to do. There is no 'best'. There's only the best in a given situation and I content that with zombies, my hammer beats your katana hands down every time.

 

 

 Hammers also cost a considerable more energy to use than a lightweight katana. Meaning you can't fight for nearly as long, and hammers/mauls are more heavy to transport.

[Nicko2580 398]

 Hammers also cost a considerable more energy to use than a lightweight katana. Meaning you can't fight for nearly as long, and hammers/mauls are more heavy to transport.

Offset by the fact that I won't need to fight as long because every blow from my hammer either cracks a bone in a zombie and puts it on the ground or kills it outright. Whereas a person wielding a katana needs to either penetrate the head (and then pull the blade out) or cut precisely through the neck with every single stroke and not mess up and get the blade caught once.

[soulfirez 901]

Not true. First of all, you're acting as if the Katana is the be all and end all of medieval warfare - it's not. My hammer is not a full sized sledge. It is a 10 pound sledge, roughly a meter long which makes it longer than your Katana (36" average length = 91cm). I can swing ten pounds all day. I do when I'm working on fences and stuff.  Assuming all other things are equal (food and such), I can crush skulls all month and if you think I can't swing it wide and hit multiple things you're very wrong. Plus as I mentioned the haft is steel which means that the whole thing becomes a weapon. I can jab with the haft, both with the butt end and holding it horizontally. I can block with it. 

Each weapon does the job it's meant to do. Katana's are not the best melee weapons on the planet and neither are mauls/hammers. However in a situation like a zombie apocalypse, my hammer is going to outlast your katana by miles. I have no maintenance. I have no worry about it blunting or getting stuck half way through a zombies neck so I can't pull it out if I don't swing it correctly. I have no worry about getting it stuck in a ribcage or any other body part. 

As for 'all cultures inventing swords' - all cultures invented maces, mauls and flails too because again - it does the job it's meant to do. There is no 'best'. There's only the best in a given situation and I contend that with zombies, my hammer beats your katana hands down every time.

Never said they were the best weapon made they are rendered near useless on a man in medievil chainmail coat but against a hammer 10 pounder ( hey i run a fencing company do fences for the mines want a job always need a good strone guy for the heavy stuff lol ) very VERY effective again where hammers used in medievil combat why yes where they widely used in comparison to say swords and spears nope.

 

So tell me why cultures who needed melee wwarfare used spears and swords rather than hammers usually ???

[soulfirez 901]

Offset by the fact that I won't need to fight as long because every blow from my hammer either cracks a bone in a zombie and puts it on the ground or kills it outright. Whereas a person wielding a katana needs to either penetrate the head (and then pull the blade out) or cut precisely through the neck with every single stroke and not mess up and get the blade caught once.

The zeds in this game are not undead so the very useful slash that kills a man will kill these zeds.. i dont need to cleave your head of to kill you merely opening your leg so you cant stand you will bleed to death or i can choose to finish you at my leasure...

 

Again any of your pro hammers being best answer the question i havee asked 2 times now why did medievil and earlier cultures prefer to use spear and sword rather than hammer they had hammers ( and some did use a sledge hammer style weapon very VERY rare) specially as there lives dependeed on it a sword is harder to make than a hammer wouldnt it be easier if there so effective to have armed your men with hammers.......

Edited February 16, 2014 by SoulFirez

[Mullraugh 1151]

Wow.

 

That's all I have to say.

[HunterJay 81]

Hammers are slow during the attack itself. You will miss your swing because your weapon is heavy and slow, your enemy moves in and removes your head with a single accurate swing.

 

Edit: Yes, yes, yes. You play DayZ so you lift 500 pounds and can swing it faster than a bullet GTFO.

Edited February 16, 2014 by HunterJay

[Nicko2580 398]

The zeds in this game are not undead so the very useful slash that kills a man will kill these zeds.. i dont need to cleave your head of to kill you merely opening your leg so you cant stand you will bleed to death or i can choose to finish you at my leasure...

Again, this discussion isn't about me and you. You keep making it that but I've never once said that I'd beat you personally with my hammer. Of course, if you're not actually trained in using that weapon I would put you in the ground faster than you can blink because I use mine a lot. If you are, then fine you'd win. 

And I am hoping (and betting) that they eventually make DayZ zombies headshot kills only, like they should be and like all classic zombies are.

[Nicko2580 398]

Hammers are slow during the attack itself. You will miss your swing because your weapon is heavy and slow, your enemy moves in and removes your head with a single accurate swing.

No. That's what you're assuming, but that's not what's true. I might be a bit slower than a Katana, but I am by no means as slow as you are thinking. And I don't even need to put full power or full extension into a swing to do enough damage to kill instantly.

Edited February 16, 2014 by Nicko2580

[Whyherro123 2283]

Your kidding right there is just so much wrong in your statements it would be like explaining to a child how to build a nuclear device.... hammer YES THEY WOULD BE EVRYWHERE i agree far far far far more common more effective there your delusional why did most cultures develop swords rather than just use hammers because there so much better. Medievil combat would havee been very different if what you said was true hell go further back even the romans Knew the effectiveness of the sword ( granted it was a short one which worked well in there shield wall as stabbing tool at close range it fit there style of fighting...

 

EDIT again i am more than willing to test your theory in real life oh so willing off balance with the follow through what a joke a weapon designed for speed of slashing that in the hands of a well trained guy can kill 3 men with just the draw slash in under a second. in my hands not so good but more than good enough to slice and dice you waving ya little hammer.....

Absolutely 100% incorrect.

Do you want to know what was the most common weapon most widely used (worldwide, not just in Europe) on the ancient battlefield (Classical all the way to the 1600's)? The goddamned spear. EVERYONE used a spear, even the knights/knightly equivalent. The sword was the sidearm. And, from roughly the 1400s onward, the sword wasn't even used in combat! Want to hazard a guess as to what was? A FUCKING HAMMER/MACE

Seriously, just take a look:

Romans- Hasta/Pilum Thrusting spear/javelin

Vikings: Spears everywhere in this bitch, before swords and axes

Every medieval army: again, spears. Like a giant spiky wall of death

Japan: Ashigaro levies? spears

EVERYWHERE: GODDAMN SPEARS

You know what? I want a spear in Day Z. 7 foot long shaft, with a 1 foot blade. I would be indestructible.

[Nicko2580 398]

Yes we know you're the strongest in the world. Now keep playing DayZ and not exercising Mr fucking universe shut the fuck up.

Ooh touchy. Move along son. It's your choice to get shitty because I'm responding. If you don't like it, don't involve yourself.

[Whyherro123 2283]

Hammers are slow during the attack itself. You will miss your swing because your weapon is heavy and slow, your enemy moves in and removes your head with a single accurate swing.

 

Edit: Yes, yes, yes. You play DayZ so you lift 500 pounds and can swing it faster than a bullet GTFO.

Have you ever held a carpenters hammer? Literally ounces in weight. OUNCES. I can swing that thing before you can blink, and I don't need to wind it up/ telegraph my movements like you would with a goddamned katana.

 

Seriously, I vary between laughing at your foolishness and crying at your stupidity. Never breed, please.

[soulfirez 901]

Absolutely 100% incorrect.

Do you want to know what was the most common weapon most widely used (worldwide, not just in Europe) on the ancient battlefield (Classical all the way to the 1600's)? The goddamned spear. EVERYONE used a spear, even the knights/knightly equivalent. The sword was the sidearm. And, from roughly the 1400s onward, the sword wasn't even used in combat! Want to hazard a guess as to what was? A FUCKING HAMMER/MACE

Seriously, just take a look:

Romans- Hasta/Pilum Thrusting spear/javelin

Vikings: Spears everywhere in this bitch, before swords and axes

Every medieval army: again, spears. Like a giant spiky wall of death

Japan: Ashigaro levies? spears

EVERYWHERE: GODDAMN SPEARS

You know what? I want a spear in Day Z. 7 foot long shaft, with a 1 foot blade. I would be indestructible.

yes id take a spear before a hammer easy to make relatively easy to use to keep someone at bay with and hell at a risk ( with sword as back up weapon ) usefull to throw and kill a target at range... the debate of which weapon is best does depend greatly what you are fighting eg armours fighting styles is it one on one in groups etc..

 

But a carpenters hammer or a sledge hammer ( i prefer the 12 pounder myself) did not become main stay weapons in these time periods because they were not the most effective as tactics and technology changed the way people fought changed hell the last effective melee weapon still used during the start of gun powder era was a bloody PIKE( still basicly a spear with some difference) not a sword definately not a hammer of any kind..

 

PS but they still kept and used SWORDS just the armies were made of musket and pike even through the victorian age the use of sword ( only cause not practtical in day to day terms carry a spear.)

Edited February 16, 2014 by SoulFirez

[Whyherro123 2283]

1) They didn't use carpenter's hammers during the middle ages because...they didn't have carpenter's hammers? They had perfectly serviceable war hammers instead.

 

2) And hammers and maces were widely used, by the upper class to kill other members of the upper class (maces/ warhammers, poleaxes), by members of the lower class to kill members of the upper class (sledges, mauls, look at the Battle of Agincourt and the English Longbowmen), by EVERYONE. They were cheap, effective, and reliable. Chances are you used some sort of club/hammer as a backup, after your spear/missile weapon.

 

3) Never throw your spear. You are not a trained javelin-ist? (Is that the right word?) You will miss, probably damage the spearhead, and look like a goddamned idiot. Especially since you a lugging about a katana.

Seriously, I can't get that mental image out of my head.

[Whyherro123 2283]

 

 

PS but they still kept and used SWORDS just the armies were made of musket and pike even through the victorian age the use of sword ( only cause not practtical in day to day terms carry a spear.)

 

I have no idea what this sentence means. For all the flak the rest of the world gives America for being fat and stupid, at least I can write in my Mother tongue. 

Also, the Victorian Era was 1837-1901. Want to know what the weapon that actually got the most kills on the battlefield? Artillery ; a big fucking gun. Even the bayonet was falling out of favor, with the development of rifles capable of long-range, accurate fire. Even cavalry was regulated to be essentially dragoons, using their carbines instead of sabers often as of not.

[soulfirez 901]

1) They didn't use carpenter's hammers during the middle ages because...they didn't have carpenter's hammers? They had perfectly serviceable war hammers instead.

 

2) And hammers and maces were widely used, by the upper class to kill other members of the upper class (maces/ warhammers, poleaxes), by members of the lower class to kill members of the upper class (sledges, mauls, look at the Battle of Agincourt and the English Longbowmen), by EVERYONE. They were cheap, effective, and reliable. Chances are you used some sort of club/hammer as a backup, after your spear/missile weapon.

 

3) Never throw your spear. You are not a trained javelin-ist? (Is that the right word?) You will miss, probably damage the spearhead, and look like a goddamned idiot. Especially since you a lugging about a katana.

Seriously, I can't get that mental image out of my head.

Strange vikings threw them romans threw them ( granted they were slightly different ) but basicly a spear just weighted better...

 

But i dont doubt your standing maces where used alot in a period when what people wore armour making stabing and slashing weapon not very usefull when armour stopped because of bullets even thouse from a musket the effectiveness of sword and spear was whatt the main stay didnt see mother fuckers running around the battle with a hammer or mace ( well you might of lol but it was not the common choice..

 

So yes put armour on a zed or a person ill take a blunt bludgeoning weapon no armour give me a slashing or stabbing weapon thats faster to use again i am happy to face YOU WITH A HAMMER OR MACE WITH A KATANA unless your wearing armour........

Edited February 16, 2014 by SoulFirez

[soulfirez 901]

I have no idea what this sentence means. For all the flak the rest of the world gives America for being fat and stupid, at least I can write in my Mother tongue. 

Also, the Victorian Era was 1837-1901. Want to know what the weapon that actually got the most kills on the battlefield? Artillery ; a big fucking gun. Even the bayonet was falling out of favor, with the development of rifles capable of long-range, accurate fire. Even cavalry was regulated to be essentially dragoons, using their carbines instead of sabers often as of not.

what the hell where have you stored your brains currently is artillery a melee weapon no so whats your point when we are debating melee.... There is a reason people talk down to many americans not all some are just to short sighted to see past there nose. I have met many who were very inteligent and i am sure you are but you are using completely different situations than the idea of 2 people in a zed apoc fightting melee with no armour on clothes just clothes... WHere is your artillery there ????? Yes in this a gun is better its not melee is it .

 

Debate what is being debated or your just losing it...

 

Edit you win cant debate when the topic is changed ill leave the thread lol ill just part again by saying i am happy to face anyone in the thread face to face with a sword you bring your hammer mace war hammer even a spear ( although the spear id be scared as hell specially if it used modern materials eg so couldnt be trapped and snapped)

Edited February 16, 2014 by SoulFirez

[crazykage 1063]

sword oh now when two of these guys got together who were under different shoguns.....

 

I think you mean Daimyo (high ranking lords that owned large portions of land). There was never at any point in time in Japan's history more than one Shogun. In fact, from the beginning of the Sengoku Jidai (age of the warring states) there was only one EVER; Ieyasu Tokugawa, who united all of japan under his rule. His descendants continued to rule the shogunate until the Meijii period, when the last tokugawa shogun returned the rule of japan to the emporer (who until then was little more than a puppet). The more you know....

 

Also, yeah, while I wouldn't want to see a katana in dayz (I don't think it would really fit with the location and all), I would disagree as to its effectiveness. Some stainless steel rat tail tang piece of shit? It would probably snap at the hilt after only a few swings and helicopter away. A real, full tang, forged blade would last quite while, if not forever if it was properly cared for. Even a relatively cheaper model would be quite useful if it was properly forged....

 

Ever seen Walking Dead? Think of Michone (spelling), the black chick that carries a katana. In the hands of a properly trained weilder, it would be just about the same IRL.

Edited February 16, 2014 by Crazykage

[Whyherro123 2283]

Strange vikings threw them romans threw them ( granted they were slightly different ) but basicly a spear just weighted better...

 

But i dont doubt your standing maces where used alot in a period when what people wore armour making stabing and slashing weapon not very usefull when armour stopped because of bullets even thouse from a musket the effectiveness of sword and spear was waht the main stay didnt see mother fuckers running around the battle with a hammer or mace ( well you might of lol but it was not the common choice..

 

So yes put armour on a zed or a person ill take a blunt bludgeoning weapon no armour give me a slashing or stabbing weapon thats faster to use again i am happy to face YOU WITH A HAMMER OR MACE WITH A KATANA unless your wearing armour........

Vikings threw JAVELINS. Romans threw JAVELINS. They are not the same. Besides being roughly the same shape and function, they are completely different weapons.

This is amusing. To give you something else to drool over: Who says I am going to face you mano-a-mano in the middle of a street, dueling-style? Can you draw that katana in a confined space, spin about and slash me before I lay you upside the head? I am willing to bet money on a NO.

 

So far, my weapon wins in ambush. My weapon wins in confined CQC. Your weapon maybe wins in an open space, where I just draw my gun and put a bullet in your chest.

So, I win? Yes.

[Martmital 436]

What was this thread about again?

[Wheunis 228]

I just draw my gun and put a bullet in your chest.

So, I win? Yes.

AHAHHHH!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQvfdPKGrqw

[Whyherro123 2283]

what the hell where have you stored your brains currently is artillery a melee weapon no so whats your point when we are debating melee.... There is a reason people talk down to many americans not all some are just to short sighted to see past there nose. I have met many who were very inteligent and i am sure you are but you are using completely different situations than the idea of 2 people in a zed apoc fightting melee with no armour on clothes just clothes... WHere is your artillery there ????? Yes in this a gun is better its not melee is it .

 

Debate what is being debated or your just losing it...

Swords were carried during this time period, but were rapidly becoming symbols of office. The only ones to carry swords were officers and cavalrymen, who used carbines rather than not. Swords became the symbols of the officer class. The most common melee weapon used during this time period was the bayonet (a spear, essentially), then a rifle butt (HAMMER), then a knife, probably. So, swords were issued, but most likely not used all that often (there were exceptions, I know.)

 

As for the artillery reference, I was bringing up the greatest killer on the battlefield. Artillery, "The King of Battle". Why were swords not so titled? BECAUSE THEY WERE OBSOLETE.

[Gad Gamer 13]

What was this thread about again?

This veered off course SUPER fast

[soulfirez 901]

Vikings threw JAVELINS. Romans threw JAVELINS. They are not the same. Besides being roughly the same shape and function, they are completely different weapons.

This is amusing. To give you something else to drool over: Who says I am going to face you mano-a-mano in the middle of a street, dueling-style? Can you draw that katana in a confined space, spin about and slash me before I lay you upside the head? I am willing to bet money on a NO.

 

So far, my weapon wins in ambush. My weapon wins in confined CQC. Your weapon maybe wins in an open space, where I just draw my gun and put a bullet in your chest.

So, I win? Yes.

Actually due to the shortish nature of a katana yes actually i could, if you can swing a hammer i have room to draw slash a katana

Any weapon wins in a surprise attack so um thats just plain stupid and yes in open you can shoot a gun yeah thats not melee so no you lose...

 

PS id be happy to find any type of sword or be able to make a spear.. they would be easier ( not a katana i just used that as it was the mentioned weapon russians have swords to) to find in chernarus than a colt python would  but we must add american weapons so YOU have something to DROOL over

Edited February 16, 2014 by SoulFirez