Flintlock musket

[six_ten 35]

We need flintlock muskets in game.  We can collect sulfur, charcoal and nitre to make powder, melt lead for shot, and have the ultimate apocalypse weapon.

[antonioajc 500]

We need flintlock muskets in game.  We can collect sulfur, charcoal and nitre to make powder, melt lead for shot, and have the ultimate apocalypse weapon.

WTF, this isn't Rust dude, you got the wrong game.

Edited February 14, 2014 by AntonioAJC

[Deathlove 2286]

We need flintlock muskets in game.  We can collect sulfur, charcoal and nitre to make powder, melt lead for shot, and have the ultimate apocalypse weapon.

And if you miss with that shot your screwed and have to find the ingredients all over again. Meanwhile some one with an AK guns you down and laughs.

 

Why not just put ppl in matches like  this and get it over again. GUNS VS MELEE!!! WHO WOULD WIN?!!!

 

[six_ten 35]

WTF, this isn't Rust dude, you got the wrong game.

 

No idea what Rust is about, but I have the right game, and the filintlock would be perfect.  If you miss, either reload or fix bayonets!

[razguul@gmail.com 80]

Well, this was a rather silly idea.

[irishroy 1347]

 

 

Sry Bro, but flintlocks are really a bit, well.

They just don't fit.

Edited February 14, 2014 by irishroy

[atoav 5]

Sry Bro, but flintlocks are really a bit, well.

They just don't fit.

 

Yeah but 10000 wooden huts with pictures of the war time. In the small villages in the mountains why wouldn't someone have a flintlock mounted to the wall as deco? If you ask me it could be there but it should be a pain to use (like it was).

[Hethwill_Khan 233]

DayZ Last of the MohicanZ, mod.

 

I'd play it.

[burritoman259 593]

Sry Bro, but flintlocks are really a bit, well.

They just don't fit.

Quite a few gun enthusiasts still load and fire weapons like this in real life.

It wouldn't be unusual for this to be the case in chernarus.

[atoav 5]

Quite a few gun enthusiasts still load and fire weapons like this in real life.

It wouldn't be unusual for this to be the case in chernarus.

 

Exactly. The point with all extra weapons should be: they should be rare.

I even think the Mosin and the M4 spawn way to often. There should be more handguns and double barrels etc. Inpractical weapons that are not very versatile and make you think twice about engaging the other player. A flintlock (my uncle has two of them on the wall), would be fun, but it should not be a common weapon.

A higher diversity in weapons and how they behave (you have to know something to actually use them), would make the game more interesting.

 

Edit: My point is: a lot of people actually suggest really mighty weapons like a M24 Sniper, etc. I also agree with them. They should be there. But there should only be a 1:6 chance for even only one to spawn in the whole map. If those strong weapons are to easy to get, to use and to get ammo for it kills what makes DayZ so interesting: the uncertainty

Edited February 14, 2014 by atoav

[-Gews- 7443]

Quite a few gun enthusiasts still load and fire weapons like this in real life.

It wouldn't be unusual for this to be the case in chernarus.

Yes, of course there will be some flintlocks in the country. However it's not a good choice for the game - it would be like adding a Ford Model T to the vehicle spawns on an American map.

Flintlocks were phased out in the 1840s by the percussion lock rifled musket so unless they are modern replicas they'd likely be from 170-300 years old...

There are no statistics, but around here at least, percussion rifles are still more popular than flintlock rifles, and for black powder handguns there's no contest, no one has flintlock pistols (and flintlock rifles themselves are only popular because of the iconic status and nostalgia of "Kentucky" and Hawken rifles in North America). Other than that it's modern inlines which are irrelevant to the discussion.

Actual smoothbore muskets are very uncommon... if you see one it's usually in the hands of a Redcoat reenactor at some ceremony. It's probably similar in Europe and I am unaware of any European countries where muskets are still popular firearms. However in some European countries cap and ball revolvers are still fairly popular because they are legal and/or easier to obtain.

I still wouldn't want them to add any black powder firearms and as for making your own gunpowder... possible, certainly, plausible, no.

[TokumeiSennin 34]

flintlock musket yes, but if its will not need gather a lot diffrents items...

Gun + bullet + gunpowerd, i would agree with that but its would be pretty weak and close/middle distance.

Edited February 14, 2014 by TokumeiSennin

[Chaingunfighter 917]

I'd rather them do a more modern single-shot muzzle loaded rifle before they do any sort of black powder firearm. A single-shot rifle would actually be interesting, but they already have the double rifle so there's no need to do one now, and even then I don't know the statistics on single shot'ers outside of the U.S. (can't imagine very popular for anything but sport shooting or hunting)

Edited February 14, 2014 by Chaingunfighter

[kruger287 13]

I actually made a whole thread on this idea alone the whole black powder rifle addition as i think it goes well with hunting

[-Gews- 7443]

Here's the Russian 1845 musket used in the Crimean War:

 

 

 

However the British were equipped with .70-calibre Minié rifles and Enfield .577 rifled muskets, both which were far superior in accuracy and range. The Russians were almost entirely equipped with smoothbores.

 

In addition the Russians treated their muskets very poorly... as a dying Lefty says in Nikolai Leskov's famous story, "tell the Tsar the British do not clean their guns with brick".

 

This was a "7 line" musket, one line is 1/10", so 0.70 caliber. It fired round balls that were undersized to allow them to be easily loaded and were about 0.65-.66 caliber give or take, and weighing around 1 oz or slightly under. The Russians also issued the Nessler bullet which was hollow-based, expanded to fit the bore, and flew like a shuttlecock, increasing the range and accuracy of the musket. Muzzle velocities unknown, it would depend on the fit and patching of the round ball - with an undersized and unpatched ball velocity could be extremely low. Figure 700-1000 fps ballpark with a paper cartridge.

 

 

 

 

 

Here's a British 1853 Enfield rifle musket.

 

 

It fired a .56-.57 caliber Minié bullet of about 530 grains which expanded to take the rifling, muzzle velocity around 900 fps.

 

 

 

 

 

With both launched at 900 fps, the musket's round ball loses 40% of its energy at 100 yards and over 60% at 200, while the Enfield's Minié loses only about 15% and 25% respectively. In terms of aerodynamics, the musket's stubby Nessler bullet would not be much better than the round ball.

 

 

 

 

Oh, and neither are flinters.

 

I'd rather them do a more modern single-shot muzzle loaded rifle before they do any sort of black powder firearm. A single-shot rifle would actually be interesting, but they already have the double rifle so there's no need to do one now, and even then I don't know the statistics on single shot'ers outside of the U.S. (can't imagine very popular for anything but sport shooting or hunting)

 

Well nobody buys single-shot rifles for purposes OTHER than sport shooting and hunting so that's not a problem. Single-shot rifles are not exactly uncommon so it's not a stretch.

[six_ten 35]

In addition the Russians treated their muskets very poorly... as a dying Lefty says in Nikolai Leskov's famous story, "tell the Tsar the British do not clean their guns with brick"

 

Regardless of that that novelist said, the British (and the Americans) in the late eighteenth century did clean their muskets with crushed brick, as do many of us today.  Far from being a practice of neglect it is a maintainance.

[DaedalRogue 83]

Quite a few gun enthusiasts still load and fire weapons like this in real life.

It wouldn't be unusual for this to be the case in chernarus.

 

A modern Muzzle loader is very different than a Flintlock rifle...

 

 

It's done in a modern fashion, and the overall mechanics behave more like a 12 Inch gun from a WW1 or WW2 battleship with pre-made primer and powder packets than with making your own powder and figuring out the correct amount so you don't blow the barrel apart.

 

 

And quite honestly...No.

 

It may be used in an apocalyptic scenario but that'd be after all other options have been exhausted. Even so a crossbow is a more viable weapon with modern means and it's easier to produce new ammunition for that than it would be for any sort of firearm.

[six_ten 35]

If most of the world population infected and only scattered bands of survivors washing up on beaches, scavenging the remains of civilization isn't an apocalyptic scenario and all other options are exhausted, nothing is. 

 

Have you seen any of the machine shops at Vybor or Cherno running?  Is that power plant at Electro producing even enough electricity to power a lightbulb?

 

Forget about running a lathe or a grinder or any of the other tools needed to maintain and repair the complicated modern equipment that so many seem to think is going to remain functional after a year or more in the weather.

Edited February 14, 2014 by Six_Ten

[DaedalRogue 83]

If most of the world population infected and only scattered bands of survivors washing up on beaches, scavenging the remains of civilization isn't an apocalyptic scenario and all other options are exhausted, nothing is. 

 

Have you seen any of the machine shops at Vybor or Cherno running?  Is that power plant at Electro producing even enough electricity to power a lightbulb?

 

Forget about running a lathe or a grinder or any of the other tools needed to maintain and repair the complicated modern equipment that so many seem to think is going to remain functional after a year or more in the weather.

 

Perhaps, but anything from 1890-1950 is mechanically simple and fairly easy to maintain with minimal proper maintenance. Specially military rifles as the ones in WW1 were designed to survive some of the worst conditions imaginable.

[six_ten 35]

Perhaps, but anything from 1890-1950 is mechanically simple and fairly easy to maintain with minimal proper maintenance. Specially military rifles as the ones in WW1 were designed to survive some of the worst conditions imaginable.

 

Look, you've got your Mosin and M4 and who knows what other superior weapons with long range scopes and ACOG sights and flashlight attachments.  What harm is it to you for there to be simpler older ones in game? 

Edited February 14, 2014 by Six_Ten

[-Gews- 7443]

Regardless of that that novelist said, the British (and the Americans) in the late eighteenth century did clean their muskets with crushed brick, as do many of us today.  Far from being a practice of neglect it is a maintainance.

 

Yes I'm aware, and civilians as well, right through to the 1860s at least. It is maintenance but it can and did cause problems, and I'm not aware of anyone still using crushed brick to clean their guns... However the Russians apparently did not have very well maintained weapons.

 

 

"Accuracy and range were improved by the use of bullets made from models of captured Allied bullets, but in time the barrels clogged and burst. This was particularly a problem for the 10th Division, which relied heavily on the new bullets [...]

 

Too often Russian muskets were poorly made and maintained. Of the 1,500 Warsaw-made rifles that reached Sevastopol in 1855, 216 were useless, while 1,490 were damaged. Out of 1,318 Moscow regiment muskets inspected 534 were unserviceable. Appearance was everything; musket barrels were polished until dangerously thin, while left rusty on the inside. Clay practice bullets further damaged the barrels."

 

 

Before and during Napoleonic times the British also had soldiers polish their muskets bright, but after the war the order went out to brown the barrels, so if the Russians were still polishing them bright, they were behind the times.

[six_ten 35]

I just want to take one off the wall of a farmhouse or behind the door of a barn and get it working.  I really am not concerned with 19th c. Russian military regulations in game, (though they are interesting ouside of the game), as none of those would be in use in the time the infection spread anyway. 

[dvsilverwing 241]

I wouldn't mind a .50 Muzzleloader (which in the States are actually quite common, their own hunting season and whatnot), but a Flintlock is a bit too antiquated, don't you think?

Edited February 14, 2014 by dvsilverwing

[Karmaterror 982]

Im no gun expert but wouldnt a musket be very short range? Isnt the whole "dont shoot till you see the whites of there eyes" a musket related thing? Like if they couldnt see the white the target was too far away. Also with no rifling or properly shaped projectile, wouldnt it be inaccurate as hell? Would be cool as a novelty gun, but not that practical (if im right about the range) :)

 

PS sorry thats more questions that an actual reply lol

[-Gews- 7443]

Im no gun expert but wouldnt a musket be very short range? Isnt the whole "dont shoot till you see the whites of there eyes" a musket related thing? Like if they couldnt see the white the target was too far away.

 

 

A soldier's musket, if not exceedingly ill bored and very crooked, as many are, will strike the figure of a man at 80 yards; it may even at 100; but a soldier must be very unfortunate indeed who shall be wounded by a common musket at 150 yards, PROVIDED HIS ANTAGONIST AIMS AT HIM; and, as to firing at a man at 200 yards with a common musket, you may as well fire at the moon and have the same hopes of hitting your object. I do maintain, and I will prove when called upon, no man was ever killed at 200 yards, by a common soldier's musket, by the person who aimed at him.

-Colonel George Hanger, 1814

 

 

 

 

Now, one can obtain much better accuracy with a well-sized, patched ball... but they didn't use well-sized, patched balls back then, they used severely undersized balls and paper cartridges to make reloading faster. As well for a long time there were no sights to speak of. Buck and ball loads were sometimes popular to increase the odds of hitting.